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    Originally posted by ChillinTheMost
    Thanks, Tracy Jane, for responding to my little rant. I definitely feel that everyone has a right to how they feel about each character, so I don't mind that you, and others, don't care for Mitchell. I guess I just don't expect to come to the thread of another of my favorite characters and read some nasty stuff that really doesn't belong there. There are plenty of threads for Mitchell-bashing and, like you said, to debate the leadership issue. I can happily stay away from those threads. Frankly, I don't much care about the leadership issue except to say that I wish they would make whatever their final decision is clear to the audience and that, if they decide that Sam is the leader, that they give Mitchell a clearly defined role of why it would be beneficial for him to be on SG-1. --I would think all members of the flagship team would be there for a reason: to make that flagship team better.

    Anyway, I imagine I'll still check in here to see what's happening with Amanda/Samantha. I'd love to know what she said about season 10. It's just a matter of how many posts I can read before I have to leave and try again another time.
    I know how you feel - I left countless SG1 groups because of the Sam-bashing....I was also a Farscape fan, looking forward to seeing Ben on my favorite show... I actually don't have much of a problem with Cam, as a character but I do agree with those that think hasn't been written as a leader - his action's are too thoughtless, he doesn't act at all team oriented - but - I find the character lovable, [I think it has a lot to do with Ben's acting style - I've always loved his work], and very passionate... I do have a problem with the leader "thing" though - I've loved Sam since the beginning and think she should still be the leader of SG1, she earned it, but that's a writer/producer problem - so in the end - as long as I can see Sam in some entertaining episodes...... in fact I think she and Cam work well together, [the same as Amanda and Ben]...I'll keep on watching.

    I still love SG1 and as long as Sam/Amanda is a part of the show I'll be glued to the screen...
    Last edited by starprops; 27 March 2006, 08:48 AM.

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      Here there is something I've found just a several minutes ago at Our Stargate board:

      "Amanda Tapping was asked why Sam wasn't in charge of SG-1 and she gave quite a funny answer about "Yeah! Why isn't she?!" and she kept making funny faces saying "But I'm not bitter." It was pretty funny. But one thing I did notice was that she *did* say that Mitchell *was* definitely "in charge" and ostensibly the leader -- and she said she supposed it was because he was the one who came in and "got the band back together." N. John Smith, I think it was, also commented about Mitchell being the "leader" and in command of SG-1 (although that I'm not sure about). Beau Bridges definitely talked about Mitchell being in command of SG-1.

      Amanda, as I said, talked about it at length. SHe did say there was some conversation about it that happens where Mitchell is saying that he can't really "presume" to give Carter orders because they are the same rank (huh?!? Since when in the military did being the same rank matter -- your CO is still your CO!), and he can't give orders to Teal'c and that he wouldn't presume to tell Daniel what to do. So I suppose they are going to continue along the course of simply allowing Mitchell's character to be a totally useless leader with no teeth to him, from the sounds of things because they are so afraid of "offending" Amanda Tapping and/or her fans."

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        Originally posted by SG1Poz
        I had to pop out to comment

        First, so glad you had a wonderful birthday and second, I'll trade your 22 for my 49 any day! I still love to have fun! It really is with how you think. In my mind I'm a young 49 going on 25.
        ...and to keep on track here,
        I can't wait to meet Amanda!

        If it really is the way you think then I must be about 10. hehe. only joking im a very mature 22 year old, or so i keep telling myself anyway. you are so lucky meeting amanda. she seems like a very lovely and down to earth person.

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          Originally posted by Coley
          To you and all those who have agreed - the discussion about Cameron is quite relevant to this thread as he has taken the place - i.e. SG1 leader - that many of us (not all of us) feel should have been Sam's.
          <snip>
          To conclude the introduction of Cam and Vala have significantly altered Sam's position both in SG1 and on the show in general. Why should members of this thread not be allowed to say if they think the characters are worthy of reducing Sam's role and potential position as team leader or not?
          I have no problem at all with this. Discussion is what we are here for. What I have a problem with is namecalling the character and/or their respective fans, i.e. Cam's character is a this or that. Very long rants posted over and over from the same people. Rants are not discussion - they have a shrill negativity to them. Passion is great, but it needs to be communicated in a way that is consistent with a thread that is 'hic comitas regit'. One thing I keep in mind when I post - even on the anti-types of threads - is whether or not people who don't agree will still want to read what I write? Will they laugh, will they think, or will they come away with a bad taste in their mouth? All we are saying is keep it hic comitas regit.
          If you immediately know the ep stinks, the writers were cooked a long time ago

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            I actually understand why so many people are discussing the merits of Cameron and Sci Fi's decision to add Ben Browder to the cast in such a huge way here. Still, I must admit that I don't come here as often as I used to, because the urge to participate in a discussion that really could be interpreted as bashing is so strong. I never used to beat around the bush with my annoyance with Cameron's "leadership" tactics, and I'm sure many other people on this forum think I'm some whacked out conspiracy theorist, with the way I go on on certain other threads. But that's cool. I've come to terms with that, because those threads are designed to discuss such theories.

            Here, on the other hand... There was a time when I relished coming on here and getting off my chest the annoyance and disgust I had with the way the show was going. And, personally, if I start up again here - where there are many, many people who I know will agree with me - I doubt I'd be able to stop.

            I just don't know where we can draw the line. There are many Cameron Mitchell AND Sam Carter fans out there who can't come here, because our discussions of Cameron are so malevolent. Yes, I definitely understand that our annoyance with Cameron Mitchell comes from the studio/network's ineptitudes, not necessarily Ben Browder. I've held for a long time that it's not Browder's doing, and I know that everyone pretty much is on the same page in that regard. But for fans of Farscape and Ben Browder (or Claudia Black), who came to SG-1 and realized that they loved Amanda Tapping as well, it must be very hard.

            Anyone who likes Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping, and has ventured over to certain other sites in this fandom, can probably testify that you're either with them or against them - with them being the ardent fans of another character on SG-1. You can't like their fave character AND Sam Carter on those forums. It's an "either/or" situation.

            Still, I must say that, while that particular issue was more fan-motivated and has a six-year history, the current situation between Sam and Cam can be blamed on no one but The Powers/the studio/the network. But where do we draw the line between simple discussion, and a perpetutation of the "either/or" syndrome? How do we get our points across without alienating many other fans who like Sam Carter and Amanda Tapping?

            I know that Sam fans here don't wish Cameron Mitchell or Ben Browder any ill-will. Many of us simply wish that his integration had been more logical, and with more care given to the original characters who made this show such a hit to begin with. Let's face it: If Amanda Tapping, Michael Shanks and Chris Judge hadn't been there from the beginning, and stayed, there would've been no show for Ben Browder and Claudia Black to join.

            But if we place ourselves in the shoes of fans who have just come on board, and who like all three of the controversial characters, I think we'd find that it's not that easy to differentiate between bashing and simple discussion. I say this because I've totally been there. The smallest comment - especially one that will inevitably be responded to by ten other people - can feel magnified, simply because you know you're in the minority.

            There's gotta be a way to find common ground here. At one time, posters could boast about the thread's motto. It was an incredible staple of the Samandan community. Now... I'm not so sure anyone could honestly suggest that, if only because so many fans are being turned off by the direction the thread has taken.
            Last edited by the dancer of spaz; 27 March 2006, 08:41 AM.

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              Originally posted by Formerhost
              So I suppose they are going to continue along the course of simply allowing Mitchell's character to be a totally useless leader with no teeth to him, from the sounds of things because they are so afraid of "offending" Amanda Tapping and/or her fans."
              I sort of resent the implication that Sam fans and AT are to blame for how they write Mitchell. And, while I can't speak for AT's influence on TPTB, I seriously doubt that her fans have that much power. Especially since many of us have been asking that Mitchell be written as a believable leader all along.

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                Originally posted by Formerhost
                Here there is something I've found just a several minutes ago at Our Stargate board:

                "Amanda Tapping was asked why Sam wasn't in charge of SG-1 and she gave quite a funny answer about "Yeah! Why isn't she?!" and she kept making funny faces saying "But I'm not bitter." It was pretty funny. But one thing I did notice was that she *did* say that Mitchell *was* definitely "in charge" and ostensibly the leader -- and she said she supposed it was because he was the one who came in and "got the band back together." N. John Smith, I think it was, also commented about Mitchell being the "leader" and in command of SG-1 (although that I'm not sure about). Beau Bridges definitely talked about Mitchell being in command of SG-1.

                Amanda, as I said, talked about it at length. SHe did say there was some conversation about it that happens where Mitchell is saying that he can't really "presume" to give Carter orders because they are the same rank (huh?!? Since when in the military did being the same rank matter -- your CO is still your CO!), and he can't give orders to Teal'c and that he wouldn't presume to tell Daniel what to do. So I suppose they are going to continue along the course of simply allowing Mitchell's character to be a totally useless leader with no teeth to him, from the sounds of things because they are so afraid of "offending" Amanda Tapping and/or her fans."
                Hmm... Interesting... I'm not so sure how I feel about con reviews or any other kind of inferences/suggestions/theories being posted by people from over there. Or being quoted here, for that matter. In fact, I'm quite opposed.

                It's not your fault either, Formerhost. I think that what the actors have said about the leadership issue is definitely an interesting detail to note.

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                  BTW STRIX and COLEY: I've always liked - and continued to like - what you've had to say and the way you've said it.
                  If you immediately know the ep stinks, the writers were cooked a long time ago

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                    Originally posted by Strix varia
                    I sort of resent the implication that Sam fans and AT are to blame for how they write Mitchell. And, while I can't speak for AT's influence on TPTB, I seriously doubt that her fans have that much power. Especially since many of us have been asking that Mitchell be written as a believable leader all along.
                    I quite agree. Blue-ees for you Strix.
                    If you immediately know the ep stinks, the writers were cooked a long time ago

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                      Originally posted by Strix varia
                      I sort of resent the implication that Sam fans and AT are to blame for how they write Mitchell. And, while I can't speak for AT's influence on TPTB, I seriously doubt that her fans have that much power. Especially since many of us have been asking that Mitchell be written as a believable leader all along.
                      Perhaps some of the writers are fans themselves at the same time, which actually is not good thing at all in this case, and they just are too afraid or don't want to write clear leadership, giving us this ... well.... crap.

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                        Originally posted by the dancer of spaz
                        Anyone who likes Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping, and has ventured over to certain other sites in this fandom, can probably testify that you're either with them or against them - with them being the ardent fans of another character on SG-1. You can't like their fave character AND Sam Carter on those forums. It's an "either/or" situation.
                        Sony Board is or rather was, because now it's definitely changed, something like this, there was Sam OR Vala issue, not both. I must admit at the beginning of season 9 being in this camp too. It took me about 7 episodes to decide that I actually like Sam (Ripple Effect was a turning point) and the idea of both of them on the team is really good idea and I'm hoping for an interesting Sam/Vala relationship in season 10.

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                          To all our con-goers hope you had a fab time...

                          Now WAKE UP and give us some reports
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                            Originally posted by the dancer of spaz

                            There's gotta be a way to find common ground here. At one time, posters could boast about the thread's motto. It was an incredible staple of the Samandan community. Now... I'm not so sure anyone could honestly suggest that, if only because so many fans are being turned off by the direction the thread has taken.
                            I think what Strix just did was great - I'm still not conversant on the ins and outs of this terrific thread, but I'm pretty sure that blaming fandoms is something that maybe shouldn't be posted here? A simple but kind "don't blame fandoms" reminder - IMHO - keeps us on track. I think if we all help one another it will go a long way - using blue jellos as positive reinforcement - mmmm!

                            I was watching Momento last night - Sam was GREAT in that. When tensions got high at the dinner aboard Promethius she said, "I'm sure both points have their merits." Wormhole physicist, lock picker AND diplomat - you just gotta love her!
                            If you immediately know the ep stinks, the writers were cooked a long time ago

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                              Originally posted by the dancer of spaz
                              But if we place ourselves in the shoes of fans who have just come on board, and who like all three of the controversial characters, I think we'd find that it's not that easy to differentiate between bashing and simple discussion. I say this because I've totally been there. The smallest comment - especially one that will inevitably be responded to by ten other people - can feel magnified, simply because you know you're in the minority.

                              .
                              and on the other side of the board, there are a HUGE group of fans of ben and claudia and their characters that bash and red rep and rag on and witch at and moan and complain that we, the folks that have been here for years - years when many of those very same folks were blaming stargate for farscape getting canned - are bad and non-fans and should jsut go away so that they, the 'new generation' of fans can take over this board and have it all to themselves....and anyone that doesn't think the newest incarnation of the show isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread can just jump off a cliff.

                              As someone who's been watching this show for years, it irks me to no end to have newbies come here and try to run me off so that they can move in and take the place over because, you see, it's now THEIR show since their actors have come in to save it

                              A slight exaggeration in some cases, but not in all of them.

                              new blood is good for the continued existence of any group or forum (i think many of us can agree that new blood could only do good for the writers of the show who seem to be too deeply entrenched in their own private little world)

                              however, it would be nice if some of these new folks would recognize and accept that they're playing on what was OUR turf back in the days when stargate was beneath thier contempt and not good enough to watch

                              It's hard to be welcoming and nice to the new kids on the block when they keep stealing your toys and trampling on your grass
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                                Originally posted by Formerhost
                                Perhaps some of the writers are fans themselves at the same time, which actually is not good thing at all in this case, and they just are too afraid or don't want to write clear leadership, giving us this ... well.... crap.
                                I'm not quite sure I'm fully understanding what you mean by that, FH. Do you mean the writers are fans of the actors/characters, or do you mean something else?

                                For one thing, I still think the writers are afraid of picking a side for fear of fan fallout. I know some disagree with that theory, but it just doesn't make any sense for them to NOT take a side on this issue. They have a history of being wishy-washy, waffling, making/breaking "promises," etc.... All for the sake of keeping everyone waiting with baited breath for what they've been waiting for all of this time, whether it's a conclusion of the ship issue or the command issue.

                                And in reality, it's not even about "sides." It's not about Ben Browder's well-being or Amanda Tapping's well-being. At least it shouldn't just be about that when it comes to executing a plot, an arc or addressing such a huge issue like co-command. While I wish they had taken Amanda Tapping's nine years of experience and loyalty to the show into consideration when making their decision, it would seem they didn't. OK, cool. But if they're going to make a decision and disregard people who've been on the show from the beginning, I would think they'd at least attempt to be logical. Again, it would seem that they didn't.

                                There is no reason why the conversation that will supposedly take place next season concerning Cameron Mitchell's leadership should be happening a full freaking YEAR after the character's introduction. That says to me that the writers really do look to the fans and make more logical decisions after said fans complain. Because it's quite clear that, while they discussed it at length behind closed doors, they had neither the desire nor the guts to write such a resolution on screen. It's only AFTER fans have given them hell that they'd decided to do so.

                                And, before I log out, I've got one more thing to (hypocritically) whinge about...

                                The Sam/Vala scene being cut out.

                                That's all I need to know about next season to know that it's gonna suck. Yes, someone can cry "premature" all they want. As it stands, ESPECIALLY considering Mallozzi hinted at it last fall, it would seem that there is probably NO justification for cutting it. Of course... five months from now, it could all be quite clear. I'm not sure. But if they've already cut a scene that could be considered "interesting" and features Vala and Sam, and said scene is only within the first five or six episodes, that's a problem. Why wait to have that kind of insightful and in-depth stuff between two characters who are surrounded by fandom controversy, unless you don't really find their interaction much of a priority?

                                I guess we can add that to the list of many, many opportunities TPTB have deliberately ignored, and will continue to ignore until the series is dead and gone. I'm not holding my breath on any deleted scenes promises - especially when the people in charge refuse to unify all of the regions' special features. Oh well, I guess that's what fic is for, right?




                                See? I knew if I started, I wouldn't be able to stop...

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