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    Regarding "The Big Three"

    I've actually never called them that, but I can certainly understand the frustration of those that do. For me, I've never seen that term as a reflection of Sam, Daniel, and Teal'c and how they think or what they believe about themselves. Rather, I see it as a growing frustration from a lot of long-term viewers of how the three characters have been sidelined this season in favor of Vala and Cam. Even Daniel, though he was prominent in the first five episodes was, to me, little more than Vala's straight man.

    I also don't think it's entirely accurate to say that it's fan's refusal to accept these characters that make the characters not work for them. (That's what I took from your post, Lys, forgive me if I got your meaning wrong.)

    First-I haven't run into too many people here, or over on LJ where I 'hang out' a lot, who wrote Mitchell off before he appeared. Most people I think either wanted to like Mitchell (like me) or were at least willing to give him a chance. However, the writing for this character has been so uneven, his character so poorly developed that for many people he's been very difficult to accept as real, let alone really part of SG1.

    Second, while it's true that a new character isn't going to have the depth or layers that a character that's been around for nine years has, I think the writers have made the mistake of trying to force such depth and character onto Mitchell in what amounts to half a season. (Since his characterization was also, for me, sacrificed to the 'fun' the writers had with Vala.) And for that reason, the team aspect of the show has suffered as much, and if not more so, than because of the more complex storylines than in in the first season.

    The writers have made, for me, a lot of poor choices this season-sacrificing the team aspect that has always been what really drew me to the series, pushing the new characters to the forefront in what I can only assume is their way of trying to integrate them into the show (which, imo, has done the exact opposite), rushed the Ori storyline at the expense of having anything like character stories for anyone but Cam, and written Cam as someone who, to quote what a fan of Cam said on my LJ, "doesn't seem too interested in staying with the team, ironically after he was so invested early on in getting them back together." And I think they've relied on 'tell not show' far too often this season. (Crusade was for me a overblown example of this tendency, which is why it was all the worse for me.)

    I think all of these things are factors in why a lot of people don't, yet, accept Cam. I do think his character can be salvaged, but at this point I wouldn't simply accept him starting to act in a more mature, reasonable way. I've seen so much of unreasonable behavior for him that I'd want to know why he'd changed. I want to see it-not just suddenly find him acting like a seasoned Lt. Col. should. I honestly think that if the writers tamed Cam's maverick tendencies in a belivable way, most people who haven't liked or accepted him would give him a chance. I really haven't run into too many people here, or on LJ who are determined not to like him no matter what the cost. In fact, I've run into far more people who were determined to like him-based soley on his being played by BB-before he even made an appearance on the show.

    As for Vala-I'm torn. On the one hand-I'm with Sky. I'm not entirely sure her character can be salvaged. She was written, and acted, so OTT, her humor was adolescent and base, her behavior so often self-centered that I fear that in order to 'tame' her, or tone her down, the writers will write her changing in an unbelievable way. On the other hand, I could have liked the Vala we saw in Crusade, but even there I was already seeing the changes in her as unbelievable.

    In an effort to keep this on topic, Sam is, and has been since I first started watching SG1-my favorite character. I don't accept that she has to be sidelined in order to learn about the new characters. The best way for the audience to learn about, and accept, the new characters would have been through the old ones. Sadly, this wasn't the tact the writers took. And I think it was a mistake. I think fan reaction shows this, and I really don't accept that it's the fans' fault.
    Last edited by Deejay435; 14 March 2006, 08:54 AM.

    Comment


      Originally posted by minigeek
      If there is a season eleven, and we're not all "winding down" from a decade of SG-1, now (then) cancelled...
      That'll be an interesting time for everyone. We'll get reflective, think back to what we wish we'd said, wish we'd done... Someone may even have to write a eulogy.

      All I know is, the press better give this show its due this spring/summer, because the cast and crew really deserve the recognition. I'm talkin' TV Guide and Entertainment Weekly coverage here - cover page, multi-page articles, cool photo shoot, the works. And Sci Fi had better do a one-hour special on it, too (now that BSG won't be premiering until October).

      I can dream, right?

      Comment


        Originally posted by Mandysg1
        Hmmm? Maybe he can have Carter beamed to the nearest supply closet for Sally
        Nooo... if he were going to have anyone beamed into the nearest supply closet for Sally - that "someone" wouldn't be Sam! (Unless, of course, she was being sent to the supply closet to give Sally a few minutes alone with the General. Somehow, I think she has issues that she needs to sort out with Major General Jack O'Neill... )

        I think we're just being wound up about RDA in ep 200, the same way we were wound up about 'someone we miss' for Ripple Effect, and then they'll go out and see who's actually available, and then squander the opportunities that do present themselves anyway.

        If RDA appears in ep 200, and I doubt he will, it'll be another one of those poorly-programmed-hologram-doing-very-little bits like we got in Avalon and Origin. Short, stiff, and meaningless.

        If RDA does any actual acting in ep 200, I'll actually write y'all a Sam fic.
        ...a very cranky blog:http://simhavaktra.blogspot.com/

        Comment


          Originally posted by Deejay435
          Regarding "The Big Three"
          I've actually never called them that, but I can certainly understand the frustration of those that do. For me, I've never seen that term as a reflection of Sam, Daniel, and Teal'c and how they think or what they believe about themselves.
          Deejay I see what you're saying, but I also think that it's a fine line to walk. If we use a term like that, we probably won't see it as being a negative thing at all, but those looking in from the outside of that opinion do - they see a marginalized "clique" (of sorts) - without an open mind to new scenarios/ideas. We'd say that's not necessrily true - but in some ways it is true. When we say "Big 3" we mean three specific people, excluding other people. Those three people can never (by virtue of the term's intent) ever change. It's the same thing as the so-called "Second Original SG-1" - a group that also describes four specific people. Those who love the term and use it don't believe it has any negative connotation whatsoever. Those who deplore the term think otherwise. Either way, the term itself (on both sides) implies an elitist attitude towards some individuals while keeping "others" out (whomever those others may be). Like any clique - there's going to be someone out there who feels excluded. If we just say "SG-1" then it's a little more animorphic, and does not necessarily mean the same people at any given point, therefore it doesn't exclude the possibility of new ideas. There's no secret handshake and no one looks sideways at anyone else. At least, that's how I look at the whole "labeling" scenario.

          mg

          Live On Stage in Toronto - August 8,9,10 2008
          ~all proceeds to benefit charity~

          Comment


            Originally posted by minigeek
            Deejay I see what you're saying, but I also think that it's a fine line to walk. If we use a term like that, we probably won't see it as being a negative thing at all, but those looking in from the outside of that opinion do - they see a marginalized "clique" (of sorts) - without an open mind to new scenarios/ideas. We'd say that's not necessrily true - but in some ways it is true. When we say "Big 3" we mean three specific people, excluding other people. Those three people can never (by virtue of the term's intent) ever change. It's the same thing as the so-called "Second Original SG-1" - a group that also describes four specific people. Those who love the term and use it don't believe it has any negative connotation whatsoever. Those who deplore the term think otherwise.
            You had to compare it to that, didn't you. Thanks. A lot.

            Comment


              I'm watching Prodigy right now, and durring the lecture I could swear I could see on the board Skydiver
              sigpic

              my fanfic

              Comment


                Originally posted by Deejay435
                "doesn't seem too interested in staying with the team, ironically after he was so invested early on in getting them back together."
                that is such a perfect way to sum it up.

                he fought and fought to get the band back together....then ditches them at every opportunity

                Originally posted by Deejay435

                As for Vala-I'm torn. On the one hand-I'm with Sky. I'm not entirely sure her character can be salvaged. She was written, and acted, so OTT, her humor was adolescent and base, her behavior so often self-centered that I fear that in order to 'tame' her, or tone her down, the writers will write her changing in an unbelievable way. On the other hand, I could have liked the Vala we saw in Crusade, but even there I was already seeing the changes in her as unbelievable.
                I hope i'm wrong in this and that, in a few months, i'm singing vala's praises...but given the current level of care and skill we've seen from these writers thus far with characters, i just don't see how they can believably pull vala out of the hole they've written her into.

                maybe if she'd have bee more like crusade all along, then sure, it wouldn't have been so much of an issue. but they seemed to have too much fun for too long

                now, on the topic of sam, you know, i do like her now that she's not half of a ship...but i just wish it hadn't have taken them most of a season to get there.

                to be fair, some of that may be because of at's reduced time, and if it was then maybe things will change in s10 and sam will come back into her own since she - HOPEFULLY - won't be burdened with the boys trying to pair her up all the time

                that's about the only part i'm looking forward to, seeing how they handle sam

                cam and vala...they're incidental and part of the show, jsut not the part i'm invested in
                Where in the World is George Hammond?


                sigpic

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Mandysg1
                  I'm watching Prodigy right now, and durring the lecture I could swear I could see on the board Skydiver
                  hehehe. see, i AM the root of all evil
                  Where in the World is George Hammond?


                  sigpic

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Skydiver
                    that's about the only part i'm looking forward to, seeing how they handle sam
                    Yep. Though I'll watch this show until the bitter end, that will make or break the season for me. Personally, I'm giving them until F&B because the whole cast will be there, it'll be the conclusion of Camelot, and they'll be essentially setting the tone for the rest of the season.

                    If they can't get all of the characters gelling by then (Sam's a priority of mine, but I need to see more Daniel and Teal'c, too), and if even BW can't get this show up and running again, I sincerely doubt it will ever be salvaged.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by minigeek
                      Deejay I see what you're saying, but I also think that it's a fine line to walk. If we use a term like that, we probably won't see it as being a negative thing at all, but those looking in from the outside of that opinion do - they see a marginalized "clique" (of sorts) - without an open mind to new scenarios/ideas. We'd say that's not necessrily true - but in some ways it is true. When we say "Big 3" we mean three specific people, excluding other people. Those three people can never (by virtue of the term's intent) ever change. It's the same thing as the so-called "Second Original SG-1" - a group that also describes four specific people. Those who love the term and use it don't believe it has any negative connotation whatsoever. Those who deplore the term think otherwise. Either way, the term itself (on both sides) implies an elitist attitude towards some individuals while keeping "others" out (whomever those others may be). Like any clique - there's going to be someone out there who feels excluded. If we just say "SG-1" then it's a little more animorphic, and does not necessarily mean the same people at any given point, therefore it doesn't exclude the possibility of new ideas. There's no secret handshake and no one looks sideways at anyone else. At least, that's how I look at the whole "labeling" scenario.

                      mg

                      Which is part of the reason I don't use the term myself.

                      In part I think it's too simplistic a term to really encapsulate all the thoughts/reasons/feelings people have about the three characters and how they're fitting/not fitting into the show now.

                      I don't think using the more generic SG1 would work for most instances where I see 'the big three' being used, because people aren't talking about SG1-either in it's oringinal incarnation, or the version we have now. Using simply "Sam, Daniel, and Teal'c" would be better, I think.

                      I do get your point, that using such terms separates fans of the show SG1, and that's probably very true.

                      However, as I said, I can certainly understand the frustration that goes into a name such as 'the big three'. Because a lot of fans of these characters are feeling marginalized this season-both for the characters they've watched and loved for so many years, and by extension for themselves. Whether or not they're using any kind of label, they're still going to have those feelings, and still going to be feeling left out.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Deejay435
                        Which is part of the reason I don't use the term myself.

                        In part I think it's too simplistic a term to really encapsulate all the thoughts/reasons/feelings people have about the three characters and how they're fitting/not fitting into the show now.

                        I don't think using the more generic SG1 would work for most instances where I see 'the big three' being used, because people aren't talking about SG1-either in it's oringinal incarnation, or the version we have now. Using simply "Sam, Daniel, and Teal'c" would be better, I think.

                        I do get your point, that using such terms separates fans of the show SG1, and that's probably very true.

                        However, as I said, I can certainly understand the frustration that goes into a name such as 'the big three'. Because a lot of fans of these characters are feeling marginalized this season-both for the characters they've watched and loved for so many years, and by extension for themselves. Whether or not they're using any kind of label, they're still going to have those feelings, and still going to be feeling left out.
                        I liked Mandy's innocent reason. It's just easier to type TB3 than Sam, Daniel, Teal'c.

                        I think I posted S/T/D once, but I really don't think that'll work out in the long-run.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Simhavaktra
                          If RDA does any actual acting in ep 200, I'll actually write y'all a Sam fic.
                          Hot damn! Now I'm hoping he'll make a major appearance!

                          How do you define actual acting?

                          My LJ

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by the dancer of spaz
                            It's weird to think that far out, eh? You should probably buy a helmet of some kind!

                            How much longer before the Vancouver Convention?! Kat? Where's your countdown?
                            9 days till I leave and
                            10 days till the actual con!
                            WOO!

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by minigeek
                              Deejay I see what you're saying, but I also think that it's a fine line to walk. If we use a term like that, we probably won't see it as being a negative thing at all, but those looking in from the outside of that opinion do - they see a marginalized "clique" (of sorts) - without an open mind to new scenarios/ideas. We'd say that's not necessrily true - but in some ways it is true. When we say "Big 3" we mean three specific people, excluding other people. Those three people can never (by virtue of the term's intent) ever change. It's the same thing as the so-called "Second Original SG-1" - a group that also describes four specific people. Those who love the term and use it don't believe it has any negative connotation whatsoever. Those who deplore the term think otherwise. Either way, the term itself (on both sides) implies an elitist attitude towards some individuals while keeping "others" out (whomever those others may be). Like any clique - there's going to be someone out there who feels excluded. If we just say "SG-1" then it's a little more animorphic, and does not necessarily mean the same people at any given point, therefore it doesn't exclude the possibility of new ideas. There's no secret handshake and no one looks sideways at anyone else. At least, that's how I look at the whole "labeling" scenario.

                              mg
                              Exactly mini ! You're saying it so better than me. Whether it is the "Big 3" or the "Second Original Team", those names come out as clique names for me. I'm afraid of the "I won't watch because the story revolves around 'insert character name' " excuse. Granted, we all have our favourite characters and I'm not going to demonize any of you for not liking Vala or Cam or anyone else. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I only fear segregation. I remember back in season 6 fans saying "Daniel isn't in this episode, therefore I won't watch it". How rude ! And I mean how rude for the other original characters ! I'm afraid this attitude will come back. Only speaking for myself, I've never undertood it. I don't remember where, but I've seen comments dismissing Collateral Damage only because it was a Cam episode. Is that giving a new character a chance ? And why ignoring the part the other ones play in the episode ? What I'm trying to say here is that even if I don't think Cam is a consisitent character the way he has been written this season, I will give him a chance to improve later. It can be done. Look at what happened to Maybourne's character. He was pretty a stereotype in the first seasons and became a very complex and well rounded character once they decided to assiociate him more often with Jack. There's always hope.
                              Kingdom of Samanda : Hic Comitas Regit


                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Skydiver
                                that is such a perfect way to sum it up.

                                he fought and fought to get the band back together....then ditches them at every opportunity



                                I hope i'm wrong in this and that, in a few months, i'm singing vala's praises...but given the current level of care and skill we've seen from these writers thus far with characters, i just don't see how they can believably pull vala out of the hole they've written her into.
                                And I guess that's what my concerns for Season 10 boil down to for me: I haven't seen any evidence this season that the writers are really interested in writing SG1 as well as they used to. Or, to be fair, that any of the behind the scenes powers (writers, producers, directors) are.

                                I fear that the adolecent behavior that I've so despaired of in Cam and Vala seem to be a sign of the general mindset of those powers. They have 'fun' writing childish, ott, self-centered Vala, but they 'don't know what to do with' or 'are finished with' mature, caring, adult Sam. Those kind of sentiments worry me for Season 10.

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