Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[jckfan55]

I also hope Sam isn't off doing Tok'ra stuff in the first part of next season. What, is she in training like Kung Fu?--"Feel the power, grasshopper."
I am encouraged by the JM comment that Sam is "far away"--that sounds like something more significant than a temporary transfer to the Pentagon. But puleez don't take her away from SG1 for Atlantis.

[ChopinGal]

I posted this on a Sam Whumpers group but got no response, so I thought I'd bring it over here.

I was reading about post traumatic stress disorder and I came across this UN Peacekeeper veteran's site and an interesting tidbit about bulletproofing ...

I was thinking that, since women don't usually get to do the front-line combat stuff Sam obvoiusly does, perhaps she was part of a secret volonteer program to see if women actually can survive and thrive in the front line environment.

So, how do you imagine Sam's "bulletproofing" sessions to have been?

I think it's one more case, in real life, of rehearsing and being as fully prepared as anyone can be to face a crisis situation or even a long-term threat such as being taken hostage. However, everyone has his/her breaking point or subconscious trigger. So, what may look good in theory, may not deliver in reality.

Case in point, and maybe MajorSam can speak to this with her army corps wargames and practices: when you are training and being put through simulations of crisis/combat/kidnapping/whatever ... there is still that part of you that knows it's not real (no matter how real it seems to become). Whereas, once you are in the field or captured and it's not a game, your stress level is now going way beyond whatever you've prepared for. And in that abyss lies the true test! (Do I sound like a fanfic writer?!) Yes, once your mind grasps the reality of a critical situation, it may fall back initially on learned defensive behaviors ... but, in the long run, I think you are forced to take yourself to new levels of coping in order to withstand the anguish. For many soldiers, they get through the crisis, but all sorts of flashbacks and triggers in everyday life continue to haunt them ... and, sadly, for some, the demons of war never go away.

How has Sam handled herself in moments of crisis? Let's explore some of the scenes when she or her team are being threatened. Does she pass the "bulletproof" test?

Heroes, Pt 2, S7. Pitched battle between the Jaffa and Jack and SG1 and the other SG units ... seems like SGC underestimated the enemy and Jack gets shot in the chest while they are all advancing and laying down fire. Sam sees him fall and runs to his side, fearing the worse. I read some threads where she really got bashed for this ... that she was seen as not staying at her position and losing it. In fact, there was a really well-thought-out fanfic (written by a guy I think) called The Blue Feather which is a chilling tag to this scene and shows the consequences of Sam not continuing to shoot at the enemy when Jack is hit. Did she falter in the line of duty? Did her personal emotions overrun her military demands? Would Jack have run to her side or Daniel's or Teal'c if they had been hit? I don't have an answer ... I thought it seemed normal for her to run to her fallen comrade, until ... I read The Blue Feather. It really posed a moral dilemma and made a good argument for Sam as soldier to have stayed alert and on task. If Sam went through vigorous bulletproofing in a secret training program for women, I wonder what the right course of action would have been?

On the other hand, handling herself as a hostage/kidnapped ... we've seen a pretty strong and resilient Sam in Desperate Measures (maybe too resilient?) and Prometheus and The Devil You Know... but a more vulnerable and tortured Sam In the Line of Duty and New Order.

Anyone want to discuss that a bit more? Where do we see Sam passing the bulletproof test and being strong or where has she possibly failed the bulletproof test?

[ChopinGal]

I have heard of the military doing this... and that they've been 'called to task' for letting it get a bit too 'real' in the past. Don't know how far they go today, however.... we live in a world today that usually doesn't allow such things. Also, thinking about how the Stargate program evolved... *whatever* course they had Sam go through would never have envisioned what SG-1 went through off-world... between the Goa'uld snakings, ribbon-devices and pain-sticks... and the Replicator mind-invasions and the Entity 'mental take-over' and such...! I suppose they now need to create a special bullet-proofing course for new SGC trainees...based on what the early teams went through.

You make a really good point, Astro. No matter what the norms of bulletproofing or training women for combat were at the beginning of Sam's military assignment to SGC ... what she and the team experienced went far beyond that.

So, did those in command then develop a new training program incorporating off-world threats and methods of torture, etc.? Heck, Sam Carter and Jack O'Neill would probably be teaching a course like that, rather than taking it!

[ChopinGal]

Let me throw something out there as food for thought ... some of us have not yet seen the final three episodes of S8 (and some have not even seen the beginning of S8 ) But, we are all curious as heck about where and what our gal, Sam, is going to be doing during her hiatus in S9.

So ... after this season comes to an end, why don't we then dissect the final five episodes of S8 (Reckoning 1 and 2, Threads, Moebius 1 and 2) and play a little detective game with what the writers did show us and what clues they may have left behind ....

We may find some hints at where they were taking Carter (although I have to admit they didn't know they were up for renewal when the scripts were finished ... but didn't that happen the past 3-4 seasons?) So, even if they got renewed after the fact and found out AT was having a baby, wouldn't they still have to draw on some of the prior material to launch themselves forward into the new season? What do you all think?

Guess the plot device ... guess the Carter arc ... guess the baby's name ... oops! Wrong thread! Yes, we have been guessing all along, but this time if we venture a guess or theory we will have to back it up with something we saw or noticed in the last five episodes of S8. Are you in?

[Skydiver]

my one issue with blue feather is, my interpretaion/opinion, is that it was written more of a political statement than a 'real' fic....in other words, let's find a way to bash sam and use the jaffa as a means to that end
(i equate it to a fic called Canto, where jack beats jonas to death with a hockey stick, and gets off because jonas deserved it )

did she make a mistake? I'm no pro on military conduct and regs so i don't know. How about Jack breaking the line going over to get that jaffa without saying a word? where was the dude that was supposed to be watching over janet and daniel? why wasn't he taken to task for not guarding them?

of course, everyone as assumed that it was that singular jaffa that shot janet. there were dozens on the planet and it could have been any one of them. sam rushing to jack could have had nothing to do with it

did she break the line because 'oh my god, the man i'm so hot for got shot' or did she go over to him to get him out of the line of fire and cover him...which is something i've seen more than one soldier do for his comrade in battle conditions (in the movies anyway, and i would imagine that it happens in real life).

he was down and unconscious and if they had to pull back...which they needed to, ya can't just leave him lying 'over there' or you risk getting cut off and having to leave him behind


Haven't we seen jack do that before? someone is down and he gets them aroundthe corner or wherever, out of the line of fire or am i just remembering what i want to?

I know that there was no real time to call for reinforcements, the jaffa sprung the trap too fast however i think janet's death was attributal to several sources and putting the blame squarely on sam probably wasn't the fairest thing to do, especially since we never got a full picture of what was happening.

I'm not saying she might not have contributed....what i am saying is that there's probably no singular place to put blame

[ChopinGal]

... And, just a note for those who haven't had a chance to check it out, I think the voting actually *ends* today (March 9)

click here for the schedule.

But even if you didn't get a chance to vote, the list of nominated stories makes a wonderful reading list!

How did I almost miss the deadline?!

Thanks, Sky, and Astro! And, wow ... I could only vote for the stories I've read and enjoyed already ... so I tried to honor you all in one way or another ... but now I've got loads of other good stories and authors to check out too! This could take months!!

[MajorSam]

Hey, wow, I am!

My Goauld name is Lord Bewithme. I'm tough (soft as cotton) and mean (won't kill a fly). I have slaves (all men, all naked), and rule over ppl in a harsh manner (everyone gets a kiss and hug in the morning).

Fear me!

*hugs everyone I frightened*


Yay, we can rule together! I mean, fear us!



Sally

HAHA (((((((((((((Sal))))))))))))

I'm afraid though I might have been misinformed regarding System Lord'ia... How many points do you have to get to become one?? (How many points you got?) Because by all my knowledge, I should have it now... but I don't...

24 HOURS AND I'LL BE AT THE AIRPORT!!!! heeeh, Getting excited I'm currently running around crazy trying to pack, I just got home from rehearsals, so i'm all tired and stuff But having a big massive "last day in Canada" meal. You'd think I was leaving for a few years or something... *I wish*


Regarding the Voting ending today... YOU STILL CAN!!!! It ends sometimes today, I suposse.. (although it seems this year everytihng's been at least a few days late...) But you still can as of right now, so GO VOTE!!!!

Thers one in almost every catagory of AstroG's, lol, (Under alias Sg1_fanfic) plus one of mine in Humour, and I'm not sure if there's anyone else...

but go vote and spread the love of Samanda!!!

[ChopinGal]

my one issue with blue feather is, my interpretaion/opinion, is that it was written more of a political statement than a 'real' fic....in other words, let's find a way to bash sam and use the jaffa as a means to that end
(i equate it to a fic called Canto, where jack beats jonas to death with a hockey stick, and gets off because jonas deserved it )

did she make a mistake? I'm no pro on military conduct and regs so i don't know. How about Jack breaking the line going over to get that jaffa without saying a word? where was the dude that was supposed to be watching over janet and daniel? why wasn't he taken to task for not guarding them?

of course, everyone as assumed that it was that singular jaffa that shot janet. there were dozens on the planet and it could have been any one of them. sam rushing to jack could have had nothing to do with it

did she break the line because 'oh my god, the man i'm so hot for got shot' or did she go over to him to get him out of the line of fire and cover him...which is something i've seen more than one soldier do for his comrade in battle conditions (in the movies anyway, and i would imagine that it happens in real life).

he was down and unconscious and if they had to pull back...which they needed to, ya can't just leave him lying 'over there' or you risk getting cut off and having to leave him behind

Haven't we seen jack do that before? someone is down and he gets them aroundthe corner or wherever, out of the line of fire or am i just remembering what i want to?

I know that there was no real time to call for reinforcements, the jaffa sprung the trap too fast however i think janet's death was attributal to several sources and putting the blame squarely on sam probably wasn't the fairest thing to do, especially since we never got a full picture of what was happening.

I'm not saying she might not have contributed....what i am saying is that there's probably no singular place to put blame

Sky ... that's exactly it ... it could be argued so many different ways in regards to Sam ... I was just raising the point that this author's point of view made me stand back from what I first thought about the scene and consider the ramifications of Sam's action in another way.

I actually thought it was a well written fic and didn't think of it as political, but then I'm fairly new to this forum and fandom in general. What you veterans have been sharing with us novices is really enlightening and disturbing at times - all the different clicks and camps and whatever around the characters. I can't speak to whether this author had a hidden agenda or not so I can't judge it that way. As to rewatching the scene after I read the fic, I didn't notice Sam pulling him out of harm's way but I think she does call for backup or medics to come to his aid.

I'm just raising the question of what this bullet proofing or combat training would instill in Carter to help prepare her for a moment like that ... and the whole moral ambiguity of what's right or wrong.

Peace! CG

[ChopinGal]

HAHA (((((((((((((Sal))))))))))))

I'm afraid though I might have been misinformed regarding System Lord'ia... How many points do you have to get to become one?? (How many points you got?) Because by all my knowledge, I should have it now... but I don't...

24 HOURS AND I'LL BE AT THE AIRPORT!!!! heeeh, Getting excited I'm currently running around crazy trying to pack, I just got home from rehearsals, so i'm all tired and stuff But having a big massive "last day in Canada" meal. You'd think I was leaving for a few years or something... *I wish*


Regarding the Voting ending today... YOU STILL CAN!!!! It ends sometimes today, I suposse.. (although it seems this year everytihng's been at least a few days late...) But you still can as of right now, so GO VOTE!!!!

Thers one in almost every catagory of AstroG's, lol, (Under alias Sg1_fanfic) plus one of mine in Humour, and I'm not sure if there's anyone else...

but go vote and spread the love of Samanda!!!

I did, I did ... yes, you are there "Spinning the Bottle" and Denise is up there and AstroG. Sorry if I missed someone. (?) Come out, come out whoever you are!

Jack to MajorSam: You've still got packin' to do! That's an order!

Bon voyage - safe and happy trip and don't forget that mission at the Eiffel Tower!

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

.

"Yes sir, I can see your house from here!"

[Skydiver]

Sky ... that's exactly it ... it could be argued so many different ways in regards to Sam ... I was just raising the point that this author's point of view made me stand back from what I first thought about the scene and consider the ramifications of Sam's action in another way.

I actually thought it was a well written fic and didn't think of it as political, but then I'm fairly new to this forum and fandom in general. What you veterans have been sharing with us novices is really enlightening and disturbing at times - all the different clicks and camps and whatever around the characters. I can't speak to whether this author had a hidden agenda or not so I can't judge it that way. As to rewatching the scene after I read the fic, I didn't notice Sam pulling him out of harm's way but I think she does call for backup or medics to come to his aid.


Peace! CG

some of my interpretation can be my own predjudices coming into play. as soon as heroes aired, sam was creamed to pieces for killing janet while other characters have made just as big of mistakes and all is forgiven.

like you said, it is one interpretation, that that jaffa did kill janet. of course, it can also be argued that that dude was killed 10 seconds after jack saw him and he never got a shot off

the truth is, we don't know. we'll never know which jaffa did it and, in reality, that jaffa was probably there for the singular reason to get jack to stand up and expose himself, thus getting shot

Sam does have combat experience, we've seen it in various episodes...of course, this is one of hte few times when we've seen her in combat with multiple teams, several people fighting on several fronts instead of her own tightknit group

if it had been sg1 only, sam's gonna know how each of them will react, sg-13 and whomever else, they're unknowns

IIRC, they came to the planet, just to help get wells, and found themselves in the middle of a multi-front battle. there was not strategy, not real thought given to anything but not getting killed and getting wells home. so all of them were rather on thier own, which no doubt, contributed to the confusion

[Agent_Dark]

did she make a mistake? I'm no pro on military conduct and regs so i don't know.

Its a load of bull if anyone tries to say Sam screwed up there. You see a comrade go down, you try to help. Its as simple as that.
In fact if you really want to get picky with that scene and lay blame on someone (other than the Jaffa) put it on Jack as you said. Why the hell did he run out of his cover after seeing a Jaffa that he could have easily shot from the cover???

I know that there was no real time to call for reinforcements, the jaffa sprung the trap too fast however i think janet's death was attributal to several sources and putting the blame squarely on sam probably wasn't the fairest thing to do, especially since we never got a full picture of what was happening.

Noone was to blame for Janet's death. The military have a saying - **** happens. People die in war. And after watching Heroes I thought the PTB did a masterful job in pulling that episode off.

Regarding the Voting ending today... YOU STILL CAN!!!! It ends sometimes today, I suposse.. (although it seems this year everytihng's been at least a few days late...) But you still can as of right now, so GO VOTE!!!!

Dont Worry! lol
I've done my voting (so many of Astro's fics to vote!) and you know who to thank if you win anything

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

what to they do? 'capture' them and lock them up and whump them to get htem used to it????

<shrugs> I guess.

When I think of bulletproofing I think of the scenes in GI-Jane... basicly the entire boot-camp part of the movie, but specifically, the part where they're holding the recruits faces under running water for what seemed like hours. My chest contract in panic just thinking about that; it was worse, for me, than watching the Master Sergeant pound the sh*t out of her when she and her team were "captured"(another very long, hard scene).

I know you can't really prepare someone for getting snaked or ribboned (or the absolute worse for an SG-1 character, fanwhumped ) but a long drawn-out almost drowning session might be enough to help a person go through whatever number of stages to the point of learning that s/he can survive torture without having to endure PTSD.

I read just the other day about some guy's failed attempt to fly non-stop England to New York, back in the day. He says of his crash:

It is impossible to avoid the thought that this is the end of my flight, but my reactions are not orthodox; the various incidents of my entire life do not run through my mind like a motion-picture film gone mad. I only feel that all this has happened before - and it has. It has all happened a hundred times in my mind, in my sleep, so that now I am not really caught in terror; I recognize a familiar scene, a familiar story with its climax dulled by too much telling.

[astrogeologist]

some of my interpretation can be my own predjudices coming into play. as soon as heroes aired, sam was creamed to pieces for killing janet while other characters have made just as big of mistakes and all is forgiven.

like you said, it is one interpretation, that that jaffa did kill janet. of course, it can also be argued that that dude was killed 10 seconds after jack saw him and he never got a shot off

the truth is, we don't know. we'll never know which jaffa did it and, in reality, that jaffa was probably there for the singular reason to get jack to stand up and expose himself, thus getting shot

Sam does have combat experience, we've seen it in various episodes...of course, this is one of hte few times when we've seen her in combat with multiple teams, several people fighting on several fronts instead of her own tightknit group

if it had been sg1 only, sam's gonna know how each of them will react, sg-13 and whomever else, they're unknowns

IIRC, they came to the planet, just to help get wells, and found themselves in the middle of a multi-front battle. there was not strategy, not real thought given to anything but not getting killed and getting wells home. so all of them were rather on thier own, which no doubt, contributed to the confusion

I've been letting this sift down through my stunned brain... some folks blamed Sam for Janet's death?! How... absurd! We saw so little of that battle scene - none of us could have a clue what happened.

In fact if you really want to get picky with that scene and lay blame on someone (other than the Jaffa) put it on Jack as you said. Why the hell did he run out of his cover after seeing a Jaffa that he could have easily shot from the cover???

I thought exactly the same thing when I saw it the first time - what was he doing? And there was no way to tell with the way that things were shot - I couldn't tell if he was out of cover and into getting himself shot! Sure looked like it though! But again, they didn't show us enough. We couldn't understand the set-up. We weren't given enough information or a big-enough view of the battlefield.


On the issue of whether or not Sam should have 'gone to Jack' on the battlefield as she did... Again, we saw so little of what happened... there was no way to tell what real cover they had - no way to tell what was even going on - we were only shown a few snatches. Personally, I had no problem with Sam going to a wounded teammate on the battlefield - I just wish they'd shown it as such - which they didn't... again, the problem was that they showed just a few scant seconds of Sam moving towards him... and in that shot, she doesn't seem to be keeping a watchful eye out for the bad guys or enemy fire. The scenes just needed more (written well) fleshing out.

My biggest peeve, however, was the lack of balance; that is showing her 'going to a wounded teammate' wasn't balanced by great shots of her taking out bad guys. Again, the shots and scenes were too short - I replayed them and there is, I think, one shot of Sam shooting off a few rounds.

It's just too bad that this was probably more fodder for the venomous ship vs. anti-ship camps. I can just see the anti-shippers hating seeing Sam falling towards Jack on the battlefield... while many shippers probably thought it was one of the best scenes of the entire episode! Sigh...
.

[NearlyCircular]

And, just a note for those who haven't had a chance to check it out, I think the voting actually *ends* today (March 9) But even if you didn't get a chance to vote, the list of nominated stories makes a wonderful reading list!

I thought that MajorSam's date of March 14 sounded more familiar to me than March 9, and when I went to your link, I saw why. Today's deadline is for the Sam and Jack fan fiction awards and I think MS was referring to the Stargate Fan Awards, where nominations don't open until March 14. I hope that we'll all nominate some of our favorite authors there as well.

NC