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    spoilers for the second half of season 9 (and season 10). and an atlantis s2 ep

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    Originally posted by golfbooy
    Like Skydiver, I don't for a second believe that Rob Cooper, Brad Wright, or any of the other folks involved with Stargate are maliciously trying to remove Amanda Tapping from the show. But I'm not entirely buying the company line that this proposed crossover is to "maximize" Carter's potential. The fact of the situation is that they only have 42 minutes to tell their stories. Like it or not, when cast members continue to be added to either show, it necessitates a reduction in screen time and development for other characters. If Sam goes to Atlantis and plays the part we all hope she does, then someone on Atlantis is going to suffer.

    I'll also concede that a goodly-sized portion of my trepidation with this is based upon how poorly they managed to include everyone else when Claudia Black did her "guest spot" on SG1. I think most fans would agree that her inclusion in the stories resulted in a marked decline in the participation of both Teal'c and Mitchell, and I see no reason to assume that this won't be the case when Sam guests on Atlantis. The selfish part of me demands that she be given the same amount of (read "too much") screen time as Claudia was, but the sensible part of me knows it wasn't good for SG1 and that it won't be good for Atlantis either.

    And while I think it's a lovely sentiment, the idea that Sam Carter is being set up to be the "gel" that ties the two Stargate Universes together is far too rosy of an outlook for me. I'm not a pessimist; cynical and overly pragmatic, yes, but not a pessimist. Right now I'm hoping for one or two episodes of Sam in Atlantis, with the smallest reduction possible in her SG1 screen time. And strangely, I find the idea of both Daniel and Sam on Atlantis together far more palatable than having them each take solo sojourns. Sadly, I'm pretty sure that's about as likely as Cassandra making an actual appearance any time soon.


    i can't seem to really partake in any discussions right now on any threads. i think my main reason is i'm almost totally devoid of enthusiasm and good expectations for the future. it seems like everything i really loved for 8 years has been either screwed with or taken away. and even with sam/amanda back, i *still* have this fear of impending doom. i can barely think of one upcoming ep that doesn't carry some trepidation of what's going to happen and how sam is going to be screwed over. again.

    fourth horseman part two: more sam/orlin ship.

    ripple effect: sam/martouf ship. or sam/any man that's still breathing ship (except jack of course. he's ignored, along with s/j).

    ethon: a follow up to one of the most confusing/boring for *me* eps in a looong while (s8's icon).

    stronghold: the dreaded 'i would have told pete anyways, even if i didn't get clearance' line.

    off the grid: the lucian alliance. nuff said.

    crusade: vala's in it.

    camelot: vala's in it.

    and from atlantis' s2 ep grace under pressure: sam/mckay ship.


    that's 7 out of 10 sg1 eps (and one atlantis) that i'm literally dreading for one reason or another. and then the whole of the next season, where it looks like sam might be a recurring character on sg1 so mitchell and vala aren't.

    oh, and let's not forget sam being on atlantis...


    i wonder if michael greenburg would be interested in coming back to stargate sg1???







    sally
    sally

    sigpic

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      Originally posted by majorsal
      spoilers for the second half of season 9 (and season 10). and an atlantis s2 ep

      1
      1
      1
      1
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      i can't seem to really partake in any discussions right now on any threads. i think my main reason is i'm almost totally devoid of enthusiasm and good expectations for the future. it seems like everything i really loved for 8 years has been either screwed with or taken away. and even with sam/amanda back, i *still* have this fear of impending doom. i can barely think of one upcoming ep that doesn't carry some trepidation of what's going to happen and how sam is going to be screwed over. again.

      fourth horseman part two: more sam/orlin ship.

      ripple effect: sam/martouf ship. or sam/any man that's still breathing ship (except jack of course. he's ignored, along with s/j).

      ethon: a follow up to one of the most confusing/boring for *me* eps in a looong while (s8's icon).

      stronghold: the dreaded 'i would have told pete anyways, even if i didn't get clearance' line.

      off the grid: the lucian alliance. nuff said.

      crusade: vala's in it.

      camelot: vala's in it.

      and from atlantis' s2 ep grace under pressure: sam/mckay ship.


      that's 7 out of 10 sg1 eps (and one atlantis) that i'm literally dreading for one reason or another. and then the whole of the next season, where it looks like sam might be a recurring character on sg1 so mitchell and vala aren't.

      oh, and let's not forget sam being on atlantis...


      i wonder if michael greenburg would be interested in coming back to stargate sg1???







      sally
      MajorSal you have managed to hit the nail right on the head with your insight into those episodes.

      I have wondered why RDA and MG have pulled out of Stargate altogether-could it be they were frustrated with the direction of the show and cut their losses and left?

      As the jury (me) is still out on Season 9 (becuz there hasn't been an episode that i care to watch again)-I will be waiting to see what the second half brings us. I am afraid it is going to be the same old same old-which is sad -i had been using the Stargate DVD's as my treadmill buddy for almost 3 years-I bought season 7-but have yet to really watch it-8 is absolutely out of the question and 9-9 is a mess. the second half of this show would have to blow me away-and if they continue to screw around with Sam-and I suspect that it what they intend to do-I worry about what they will do to her next season with both shows.

      I did ask JM about Sam's contributions in season 10-and they are still not sure. She is supposedly going to be grounded in the SGC-but we shall see.
      Franklin said, "They that can give up essential liberty for a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

      "Do or do not. There is no try." Yoda


      Comment


        Originally posted by pittsburghgirl
        MajorSal you have managed to hit the nail right on the head with your insight into those episodes.

        I have wondered why RDA and MG have pulled out of Stargate altogether-could it be they were frustrated with the direction of the show and cut their losses and left?

        As the jury (me) is still out on Season 9 (becuz there hasn't been an episode that i care to watch again)-I will be waiting to see what the second half brings us. I am afraid it is going to be the same old same old-which is sad -i had been using the Stargate DVD's as my treadmill buddy for almost 3 years-I bought season 7-but have yet to really watch it-8 is absolutely out of the question and 9-9 is a mess. the second half of this show would have to blow me away-and if they continue to screw around with Sam-and I suspect that it what they intend to do-I worry about what they will do to her next season with both shows.

        I did ask JM about Sam's contributions in season 10-and they are still not sure. She is supposedly going to be grounded in the SGC-but we shall see.

        Hi pittsburghgirl,

        Where did JM mention about Sam's contributions in season 10? Why are you saying that she is supposedly going to be grounded in the SGC? Do you mean not going off-world?

        If this is true then I am back to being a pessimist. This would mean: 1) Sam is no longer on the SG-1 team; 2) she is no longer "co-leader" with Mitchell; and 3) she will probably be limited in her storylines in SG-1 (and SGA). I can't imagine not seeing Sam go off-world. And if this is so because of Mitchell and Vala (which it would have to be), *****. They will do what they did with Jack--have her pushing paper when the character is not meant to do that.
        Last edited by chocdoc; 20 November 2005, 05:07 AM.

        Comment


          I'm quoting Sally, but spoilering it:

          stronghold:
          Spoiler:
          the dreaded 'i would have told pete anyways, even if i didn't get clearance' line.
          That has to be one of the stupidest reasonings that the writers/producers ever thought up.

          Originally posted by pittsburghgirl
          I have wondered why RDA and MG have pulled out of Stargate altogether-could it be they were frustrated with the direction of the show and cut their losses and left?
          I think that Rick pulled out because he was done and Michael went with him. Rick has perfect timing to pull out of things when the time is right. And now that Gekko is gone, quality has dropped. Take a look at the scripts. There really is no one fighting for or questioning why things are happening the way that they are.
          sigpic

          Comment


            Late last night, I took a deep breath and pulled out one of the dvds from my S8 boxed set and decided to give it a try! I've had the set for two months now and no desire to rush in and see anything ... that is a telling statement in itself and echoes what some of you are feeling too.

            Well, I chose Zero Hour to watch because a) I miss Jack and b) I seemed to recall some Sam interaction. Of course, the comedy relief was Dr. Lee and the alien plant. But watching RDA in action and his gestures, smirks, O'Neillisms ... just made me miss him all the more! The guy is a heavyweight; he can act and he delivers!

            What caught my attention the most though was the way Sam was written so early in that season: she is shown as tentative of her leadership skills ... second guessing herself for giving a command which seemed to put her own team at more risk. Jack tells her otherwise and tells her she was "an animal" under fire (that Teal'c said so) - kinda building her up I think. She seemed to be looking to him for validation as her senior CO ... and that part would be true to Sam's need to please and to want to be very good at whatever she does. So I could buy it for a bit but what the writers failed to do through S8 was take this as a launching point and then develop Sam's sense of self-confidence and show her successfully leading and growing into that position. Instead, they backpedaled to the whole interpersonal arc and Sam started to become more angsty and this evoked more negative fan response from those who didn't like her character in the first place. Just more fodder to take pot shots at the gal! S8 was the season of change at SGC - Jack's moving into his new role as General; Sam moving into her new position as Lt. Colonel and leader of SG1. There should have been equal attention to both arcs; sadly, that did not happen. IMHO, this is when SG1 began to lose its groove and has never gotten it back.

            On another note, there is a special feature on the Zero Hour disc about RDA being honored by the USAF last year in Wash DC. I've never seen RDA look more handsome and relaxed and so gracious and humble. It's a great special feature and he's wearing a black tie/tux and later all in white casual. He was quite moved when the USAF chose to honor him with this award and actually give him "honorary brigadier general" status with his official two stars! He comes across as a decent guy. Just watching him, I couldn't help thinking how he probably would have been involved in protecting AT too if he had still been executive producer and involved in S9. I remember her saying in the very early years that Rick was a mentor and protector ... that he seemed to care about what happened to her, MS, and CJ, helped them fight their battles. Well, that was then and this is now.
            Last edited by ChopinGal; 20 November 2005, 05:22 AM.

            Comment


              I cpmpletely agree with the comment on Rick's timing. I believe that he had GREAT deal more influence on the show than the average fan realized. We are just beginning to see the tip of the iceberg with comments by MS and CJ. who do not always show the best judgement in when to keep quiet. I think that RDA had a sense of what worked for the show. I believe that for some actors and others they perceived this as control. With RDA gone it's all fair game with everyone wanting their piece of the pie. What results is a show with very little continuity or balance. I made this comment before and I think some people took offence to it but I'll try it again. With the treatment of RDA since he left why would any of the actors feel surprised over what happens to them. There is obviously is no loyalty to either fans or actors who have been part of the show for 8 seasons. This is the first year that I have ever heard any of the actors speak out against anything or discuss their contracts. It must be pretty bad for someone like AT, who always has shown class and loyalty to say something publically. I think that behind the scenes it's a mess.

              Comment


                Originally posted by ChopinGal
                Late last night, I took a deep breath and pulled out one of the dvds from my S8 boxed set and decided to give it a try! I've had the set for two months now and no desire to rush in and see anything ... that is a telling statement in itself and echoes what some of you are feeling too.

                Well, I chose Zero Hour to watch because a) I miss Jack and b) I seemed to recall some Sam interaction. Of course, the comedy relief was Dr. Lee and the alien plant. But watching RDA in action and his gestures, smirks, O'Neillisms ... just made me miss him all the more! The guy is a heavyweight; he can act and he delivers!

                What caught my attention the most though was the way Sam was written so early in that season: she is shown as tentative of her leadership skills ... second guessing herself for giving a command which seemed to put her own team at more risk. Jack tells her otherwise and tells her she was "an animal" under fire (that Teal'c said so) - kinda building her up I think. She seemed to be looking to him for validation as her senior CO ... and that part would be true to Sam's need to please and to want to be very good at whatever she does. So I could buy it for a bit but what the writers failed to do through S8 was take this as a launching point and then develop Sam's sense of self-confidence and show her successfully leading and growing into that position. Instead, they backpedaled to the whole interpersonal arc and Sam started to become more angsty and this evoked more negative fan response from those who didn't like her character in the first place. Just more fodder to take pot shots at the gal! S8 was the season of change at SGC - Jack's moving into his new role as General; Sam moving into her new position as Lt. Colonel and leader of SG1. There should have been equal attention to both arcs; sadly, that did not happen. IMHO, this is when SG1 began to lose its groove and has never gotten it back.

                On another note, there is a special feature on the Zero Hour disc about RDA being honored by the USAF last year in Wash DC. I've never seen RDA look more handsome and relaxed and so gracious and humble. It's a great special feature and he's wearing a black tie/tux and later all in white casual. He was quite moved when the USAF chose to honor him with this award and actually give him "honorary brigadier general" status with his official two stars! He comes across as a decent guy. Just watching him, I couldn't help thinking how he probably would have been involved in protecting AT too if he had still been executive producer and involved in S9. I remember her saying in the very early years that Rick was a mentor and protector ... that he seemed to care about what happened to her, MS, and CJ, helped them fight their battles. Well, that was then and this is now.


                I believe the last actor who was given that award was James (Jimmy) Stewart. You would expect someone like John Wayne to be awarded with that.


                And a little some thing I posted in the Anti S10 thread

                I think it was last week that Bravo had a Happy Days re-union special on. I thought funny, because they didn't show the jumping the shark clip.

                Why did I find this all amusing. You have to look at who RDA worked with and for on Mac-- Henry "The Fonz" Winkler. I think he'd learned something from the man. His personal life aside, maybe he felt the writing was slipping. He did say, and I'm paraphrasing, something about good stories will keep viewers coming back.

                I also would think as an Exe. Producer, as limited as he was in s7 and s8, the pre-production and post-production meetings, maybe he fought against the changes done during those seasons. Maybe the final vote was up to Sony/MGM and Skiffy and he lost. Maybe even current changes.




                And yes I do believe that he championed for the the people he's worked with. But after a while, you know who'll survive (MS and CJ). But being in the "biz" for so long, he knew what might/will happen to women, so maybe he did in a way try to help AT in the past month or so.

                Remember the "It" list. JMHO of course .
                Last edited by LaCroix; 20 November 2005, 08:02 AM.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by golfbooy
                  Like Skydiver, I don't for a second believe that Rob Cooper, Brad Wright, or any of the other folks involved with Stargate are maliciously trying to remove Amanda Tapping from the show. But I'm not entirely buying the company line that this proposed crossover is to "maximize" Carter's potential. The fact of the situation is that they only have 42 minutes to tell their stories. Like it or not, when cast members continue to be added to either show, it necessitates a reduction in screen time and development for other characters. If Sam goes to Atlantis and plays the part we all hope she does, then someone on Atlantis is going to suffer.
                  I agree with you that those involved with the show are not trying to figure out a way to "punish" Amanda Tapping or to do detriment to her character, but it still feels to me that they are definitely going about keeping her around the wrong way. Like you mentioned, many of the good character moments that are scripted and shot end up on the cutting room floor because there simply isn't enough time to show them all in the limited time provided for an episode. I'd think that this would especially be an issue in Atlantis as opposed to Sg-1 because of the much larger regular and recurring cast. Plus, it is still very early on for this series, and most of the characters (IMO, with the exception of Rodney) still need some major development.

                  Elizabeth and Teyla come up notably short in the department of screen-time, line number, and development and are in most need of getting some serious fleshing-out in the third season. The news about Amanda's addition to the cast is far from comforting for the prospect of this happening. I LOVE AT and I LOVE Sam, but I don't think that having her shuffle back and forth between the two series (if it is more than just two or three crossovers, I mean) is good for any character. It is already easy to see that the writers sometimes don't know what to do with the two female characters already on Atlantis, and to add one that has had nine solid years of growth and development is not going to help them at all. It is easiest for them to write for Rodney (it has been admitted by the writers), and the relationship between him and Sam is already established. Call me a pessimist, but I should think that the writers will choose the "easy way out" yet again and pair Sam off with Rodney for most of her scenes...once again leaving out those characters that need work and filling in the two who don't.

                  I'll also concede that a goodly-sized portion of my trepidation with this is based upon how poorly they managed to include everyone else when Claudia Black did her "guest spot" on SG1. I think most fans would agree that her inclusion in the stories resulted in a marked decline in the participation of both Teal'c and Mitchell, and I see no reason to assume that this won't be the case when Sam guests on Atlantis. The selfish part of me demands that she be given the same amount of (read "too much") screen time as Claudia was, but the sensible part of me knows it wasn't good for SG1 and that it won't be good for Atlantis either.
                  While no one would ever call me a Vala fan, I have nothing against the idea of bringing on a new cast member and nothing against Claudia Black. That being said, I understand exactly what you mean about her guest spot role kind of taking over the other aspects of the show. Her appearance was new, different, and fun to write, and it definitely showed that the writers felt that way through the amount of screen-time that she was provided. And heck, give her time to shine -- that's why she's there -- but it was done at the expense of the other characters. I have no reason to feel that AT being on Atlantis would be any different for the cast of that show.

                  And while I think it's a lovely sentiment, the idea that Sam Carter is being set up to be the "gel" that ties the two Stargate Universes together is far too rosy of an outlook for me. I'm not a pessimist; cynical and overly pragmatic, yes, but not a pessimist. Right now I'm hoping for one or two episodes of Sam in Atlantis, with the smallest reduction possible in her SG1 screen time. And strangely, I find the idea of both Daniel and Sam on Atlantis together far more palatable than having them each take solo sojourns. Sadly, I'm pretty sure that's about as likely as Cassandra making an actual appearance any time soon.
                  Ditto this for me. The idea is nice, but practicality of it...I'm not so sure it can be pulled off like they want it to. Here's hoping that all of my pessimism regarding this rumor/idea is completely wrong, but I can't help but feel that it isn't going to turn out as well as they want it. ::sigh:: I guess we can only wait and see.

                  "But that man who has known the immense unhappiness of losing a friend, by what name do we call him? Here every language is silent and holds its peace in impotence." ~In memory of Whistler84...loved and missed but never, never forgotten. Safe journey, my dear friend. Love you.

                  HIC COMITAS REGIT How long until Shore Leave 29???

                  Comment


                    Yes, during the downtime before second half of S9, many fans are feeling confused, conflicted, and unsure of just where our beloved Sam will be and how her arc will continue to play out.

                    However, in fairness to all sides ... let me offer these words of wisdom:

                    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in his shoes.
                    That way, when you criticize him, you're a mile away and you have his shoes.


                    http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y11.../Coolshoes.jpg

                    Peace, CG

                    Comment


                      OT, but applicable, I believe, to many of the women on this list:

                      She's Such a Geek

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                      have to choose between being sexually desirable and smart, stereotypes about geek professions such as computer programmers)
                      · sex and dating among geeks
                      · science fiction fandom
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                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Skydiver

                        I think SMS is making a huge mistake. the francise is build ON hte actors, not in spite of them. and stargate is no Law and Order, they can't just swap out the actors and keep the show going. there's too much dependance on the characters
                        Exactly. I hope this talk of Sam on Atlantis being similar to Caldwell doesn't mean she's as useless a character there as he is. I just don't see the story need for Sam to be there. I'm hoping the writers suprise me in a good way. Crosses fingers that BW has some good ideas.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by ChopinGal

                          What caught my attention the most though was the way Sam was written so early in that season: she is shown as tentative of her leadership skills ... second guessing herself for giving a command which seemed to put her own team at more risk. Jack tells her otherwise and tells her she was "an animal" under fire (that Teal'c said so) - kinda building her up I think. She seemed to be looking to him for validation as her senior CO ... and that part would be true to Sam's need to please and to want to be very good at whatever she does. So I could buy it for a bit but what the writers failed to do through S8 was take this as a launching point and then develop Sam's sense of self-confidence and show her successfully leading and growing into that position. Instead, they backpedaled to the whole interpersonal arc and Sam started to become more angsty and this evoked more negative fan response from those who didn't like her character in the first place. Just more fodder to take pot shots at the gal! S8 was the season of change at SGC - Jack's moving into his new role as General; Sam moving into her new position as Lt. Colonel and leader of SG1. There should have been equal attention to both arcs; sadly, that did not happen. IMHO, this is when SG1 began to lose its groove and has never gotten it back.
                          This is the way I interpreted that scene. She says she wants to talk to him about something & *he* launches into her performance review. I think she was just going to talk to him about the zpm but since he brought up the review, she sees it as a chance to check in with him about the decision on the planet. He is her mentor, after all. But I hated that whole questioning herself aspect. Heck--she got command of a mission as a *Captain* in "Spirits" (not a fav. episode of mine) and seemed more confident. Why should she be less confident now? There was no need to have any question of whether Sam felt confident & Gen O'Neill was confident in her unless, as you say, they then made it very clear that she was completely competent as CO of SG1.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by jckfan55
                            Why should she be less confident now?
                            Because she's experienced much more and has a greater understanding of what the command mentality will require from her? Because she had doubts before "Spirits", but now feels more comfortable admitting her concerns to both herself and Jack?

                            Seriously, I'd be more worried if she had no doubts. As long as she didn't let them paralyze her or second guess herself too much, I think it would be normal for any new commander to have some doubts until the role becomes more familiar.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Coley
                              Does anyone know what has happened to Qasim? He's not been around much lately. Has he forsaken us?
                              Originally posted by Coley
                              Is Qasim coming back at all?
                              Originally posted by ChopinGal
                              And what about Qasim? Methinks the lad may be hunkered down with serious schoolwork now that he's returned to university.
                              I was just talking to Forever on MSN and talked to Lys yesterday

                              Forever let me know that some of you have enquired as to my whereabouts

                              The day that the Gabit news came out there were two groups of people those that knew what the news was but wouldnt tell us and preferred to just talk about how bad it was etc and everyone else who didnt know

                              My opinion was that if they were not going to tell us then they shouldnt have said anything at all

                              Anyway thats in the past now and I would like to put it behind me

                              I was busy for a while after that and didnt have time to do much at all - the break from fandom was refreshing so I thought I would carry it on for a while

                              Then I began suffering from insomnia and wasnt getting much sleep so i didnt really have the chance to read up on the goings on here - could someone let me know the main points (positive only) of the last 100 pages!!!!

                              University has been pretty simple so far but I have two big assignments coming up and then after that the exams will begin

                              Anyways I probably wont be around much - the chances of me being on as much as I used to be are zero

                              Take care everyone I will pop in now and then to see whats going on

                              Qasim.
                              gumboYaYa: you are all beautiful, your words and openness are what make that shine. don't forget how much talent love and beauty you all have.
                              so for now, peace love love love more love and happy, and thank you, thank you, thank you
                              love Torri

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                                Originally posted by parsifal
                                Because she's experienced much more and has a greater understanding of what the command mentality will require from her? Because she had doubts before "Spirits", but now feels more comfortable admitting her concerns to both herself and Jack?

                                Seriously, I'd be more worried if she had no doubts. As long as she didn't let them paralyze her or second guess herself too much, I think it would be normal for any new commander to have some doubts until the role becomes more familiar.
                                Yes, but those early doubts should have moved her forward and the rest of the season should have bolstered the Sam-as-leader arc. I think it was a costly omission.

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