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The Jack O'Neill/Daniel Jackson slash and friendship thread

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    The Jack O'Neill/Daniel Jackson slash and friendship thread


    Time to prose the question that start me in the gateworld rooms


    What is Jack's and Daniel's feels toward each other?
    are they really best of freinds; or has Daniel going and coming back hurt the reletionship?

    It is what it is. I think this Reletionship was the most important in the show and gave it the best feel. Is Ship distroying these now, Or is it still there?
    what do you think?

    Last edited by ecm101; May 5, 2004, 09:41 PM. Reason: got cut off
    I'm not here man
    Hello it was me

    #2
    It's still there. Just look at LC1, Daniel and Jack in front of the ancients' repository. Or Daniel just waltzing into Jack's house. Or in Fall Out, the way they have such a link that even though they are saying opposite things they have identical gestures.

    It's harder to spot than it used to be. Ditto the Jack/Teal'c friendship. There does seem to be a near ban on Jack having a conversation with anyone who isn't Sam or an OC in the middle-to-late seventh season. Pity. But what J/D and J/T I *do* get, I still enjoy as much as I ever did.

    Madeleine

    Comment


      #3
      I don't enjoy it as much. Sometimes I wonder if Jack even remembers Daniel. "Who? Why is this guy tagging along." Occasionally they throw a crumb, but it doesn't negate the overwhelming amount of disinterest I've seen from Jack. And, LC was a great disappointment. It seemed he gave a heartfelt farewell to everyone except Daniel. And, no, leaning back and saying "I know" isn't heartfelt to me. Actually, no one can ever convince me that there was any good reason for Jack not to have shown more caring in that episode, when he showed it for his other teammates. NEVER. But, of course, you're free to try.

      Since this thread is about Jack and Daniel I'm not going to spend much time focusing on the others unless it directly effects the J/D relationship. To not see a scene of Jack asking Daniel if he was okay in Evolution2, to not see a hug (even if it had happened after they got out of immediate danger) just made me really dislike that part, although I loved the Daniel scenes. And, I don't see asking the question (for someone who actually had been tortured) as making Daniel seem weak, or anything like that. It would have made Jack seem like he really cared for Daniel as friend.

      I just haven't seen that warmth and caring that they had in the early seasons. And, it's not enough to say things change. That doesn't make it better. Some changes are bad, and for me, this change is just terrible. The friendship hasn't evolved. It's devolved.

      And, Daniel didn't get his share of affection because he got a lot back when Stargate was good, and now he doesn't need anymore. These things should never stop. If they had written it where they actually showed that Jack was feeling cautious because he was scared of losing Daniel, that would be a reason. But, to me, they haven't. To me, any reason anyone gives is all fans trying to make sense of something that the writers have just dropped. With no reason whatsoever.

      Jack and Daniel friendship, where are you?
      I'm a girl! A girly girly girl!

      Okay, you got me. I can't accept change. This message may look like it was typed on a computer and posted on the internet, but it is actually cave drawings delivered by smoke signals.

      Naquada Enhanced Chastity Belts -SG1 edition. On sale now! Heck, I'll give them away

      Daniel Jackson Appreciation and Discussion -because he's more than pretty

      http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=89


      Daniel Jackson: The Beacon of Hope and The Man Who Opened the Stargate

      Comment


        #4
        I believe that it's still there. The fact that RDA has chosen to have less airtime has cut into many of the scenes that could have been written. Season 7 was used for character development of the other 3 stars and therefore left a lot to be desired in the Jack and Daniel dialogues. The two actors have a great chemistry together.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Dani347
          I don't enjoy it as much. Sometimes I wonder if Jack even remembers Daniel. "Who? Why is this guy tagging along." Occasionally they throw a crumb, but it doesn't negate the overwhelming amount of disinterest I've seen from Jack. And, LC was a great disappointment. It seemed he gave a heartfelt farewell to everyone except Daniel. And, no, leaning back and saying "I know" isn't heartfelt to me. Actually, no one can ever convince me that there was any good reason for Jack not to have shown more caring in that episode, when he showed it for his other teammates. NEVER. But, of course, you're free to try.

          Since this thread is about Jack and Daniel I'm not going to spend much time focusing on the others unless it directly effects the J/D relationship. To not see a scene of Jack asking Daniel if he was okay in Evolution2, to not see a hug (even if it had happened after they got out of immediate danger) just made me really dislike that part, although I loved the Daniel scenes. And, I don't see asking the question (for someone who actually had been tortured) as making Daniel seem weak, or anything like that. It would have made Jack seem like he really cared for Daniel as friend.

          I just haven't seen that warmth and caring that they had in the early seasons. And, it's not enough to say things change. That doesn't make it better. Some changes are bad, and for me, this change is just terrible. The friendship hasn't evolved. It's devolved.

          And, Daniel didn't get his share of affection because he got a lot back when Stargate was good, and now he doesn't need anymore. These things should never stop. If they had written it where they actually showed that Jack was feeling cautious because he was scared of losing Daniel, that would be a reason. But, to me, they haven't. To me, any reason anyone gives is all fans trying to make sense of something that the writers have just dropped. With no reason whatsoever.

          Jack and Daniel friendship, where are you?
          The "I know" was the jack daniel moment! they are such good friends, have such a deep bond thats all they need! think of all the times they have seen each other almost die, and actually die!! Think of "Meridian" think of "Abyss" jack is closer with daniel than any of the others and doesnt need a showy, touchy feely moment with daniel because they are beyond that point. they know how each other feel and all they need is that simple "I know" to acknowledge it.

          Comment


            #6
            I disagree completely. Because they were close friends before and they did show it, so to say they don't need to now doesn't make sense. If they don't need to now, they didn't need to before. And, yet, lo and behold, they did.

            I suppose the next argument will be that Jack isn't close with Teal'c, because he hugged him. I mean that only seems logical, since Jack not showing affection is some huge proof that he is close, than Jack showing affection to someone must mean that he's not close. Of course, that's stupid.

            I saw Jack looking bored and like he couldn't be bothered when he said "I know." If that's some sign of them being so close, I'd rather he step back and be as close as he is with Sam or Teal'c. The "I know" was pathetic. IMO.

            I have never (except when it comes to Jack and Daniel) seen the argument that close friends don't need to show affection. That when they show affection to every other freaking person but one person it's a sign of how so much more closer they are to the person they aren't showing the friendship and affection to. It doesn't add up. Or, if Jack never speaks to Daniel again, that means that he and Daniel are practically soulmates, since the less affection he shows, the more we're supposed to believe he cares? Hmm, if Jack pulls a gun on Daniel (without being under the influence of something) I suppose we should scream for them to get a room.

            And, tv is a visual medium. Which means that tv is supposed to show things. We're not supposed to have to just believe they're so close, or that they're still close without seeing it.

            And, why is it that when someone says they haven't seen friendship between Jack and Daniel usually have someone say they don't need to be all touchy feely? Why is it automatically assumed that that's the only thing people want?

            And, please, don't anybody twist my words around to say that I don't want Jack to show affection to Teal'c or Sam, because if you read, you'll see I never said that.

            And, thinking of Abyss, Jack showed a freaking lot more closeness to Daniel than he showed all of season 7. And, they didn't touch, so it's not all about touching. Or, what about One False Step? They never actually got the words out in the apology scene, and I saw more affection. It's not just them touching that makes me see closeness. And, that wasn't even as bad a situation as they're in at the end of LC. So, I don't buy that every time Jack doesn't show some caring (and there is a lot of room between being touchy feely and showing total disinterest) it's because he's just sooo close to Daniel. Because I've seen him show it, and there's no reason why he shouldn't still. And, like I've said before, if any of my friends want to get that kind of "closeness" with me, don't bother.

            If no one on the team ever shows caring (for the viewers to see) I wonder how many posts will be praising just how close the whole team is.

            And, so what if they've seen each other die or almost die? People are supposed to get used to it? It's supposed to be old hat? My, my, my.

            No thanks. I stick to my belief that a caring friendship on television is one you see played out.

            Season 7 was used for character development of the other 3 stars
            Do you mean 2 stars? Sam and Teal'c? Or another character also? And, I saw development for them in the early seasons, and they managed to have Jack act like Daniel kind of matters. It's not just that there are scenes without Jack and Daniel together, but in the scenes where he's with him I don't see that he cares, or where he should be fighting hell or high water because Daniel needs him, he isn't.
            I'm a girl! A girly girly girl!

            Okay, you got me. I can't accept change. This message may look like it was typed on a computer and posted on the internet, but it is actually cave drawings delivered by smoke signals.

            Naquada Enhanced Chastity Belts -SG1 edition. On sale now! Heck, I'll give them away

            Daniel Jackson Appreciation and Discussion -because he's more than pretty

            http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=89


            Daniel Jackson: The Beacon of Hope and The Man Who Opened the Stargate

            Comment


              #7
              I agree with everything Dani said.

              However I totally disagree wkth stunf like |hms:
              The "I know&$was(the jack daniel moment) they are such good friends, have such a deep`bond thets all they negd1
              MTlks is the kiod(of garbage we hed to suffår sioce¤season 7 stárted.
              DoaTPTB really think we're`stupid, RDa spent$all his time0playing the Jack'Sam anä for TPTB the Jack and Danmel0relctionship is a problem for tèe Jack&Simo
              So they cut`all¤the Jack end Daniel scenes.
              I'm syck`and tired of reading excuses for this.

              Comment


                #8
                My biggest problem with the whole "they're such good friends excuse they never ever ever ever ever ever ever have to show it again" is that it gives everyone on the show an excuse to be lazy. Don't show them exchanging smiles (see, it's not all about touchy feely)? It's because they're so close they don't need to. When a situation warrants a hug, or a pat on the arm, and there isn't one? They don't need to. It lets tptb and the actors coast on the first three seasons. So, even if they never do anything, we're supposed to just assume based on what happened before, when they had absolutely no freaking problem showing it, and it wasn't because they weren't as close as they are now. (Sorry, the whole no affection because they're so close just makes no sense to me) It also doesn't wash because even though I never had any doubt that Jack cared for Sam as her CO and friend, they're still letting that show (well, they've subverted it to ship).

                If someone had just started watching the show in season 7, without any prior knowledge of the characters, would they be able to tell that Jack and Daniel have this incredibly close friendship that apparently manifests itself through disinterest and boredom? If you saw a man hug one team mate, and then later touch him tenderly on the cheek, and call another one a national or universal treasure, and later have his eyes wide open, staring at her, and saying with a voice that is just spilling over with conviction that he trusts her (and than says I know, but he actually looks at her while he's doing it), and then you saw him tell the last teammate just "I know" leaning back, eyes shut, no look of trust or anything, you'd honestly think, "Wow, he really cares for that guy so much more than he cares for the others."?

                At the very miniscule least, Jack should have been looking at Daniel. We should have seen the trust or faith in his eyes. Not because Daniel needed it (but, I'm not ashamed to say I needed it) but because as his friend, he shouldn't have been able to help it.
                I'm a girl! A girly girly girl!

                Okay, you got me. I can't accept change. This message may look like it was typed on a computer and posted on the internet, but it is actually cave drawings delivered by smoke signals.

                Naquada Enhanced Chastity Belts -SG1 edition. On sale now! Heck, I'll give them away

                Daniel Jackson Appreciation and Discussion -because he's more than pretty

                http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=89


                Daniel Jackson: The Beacon of Hope and The Man Who Opened the Stargate

                Comment


                  #9
                  I do think that the Jack/Daniel friendship has changed for season 7. But I sort of chalked it up to being ascended having changed Daniel on some level and the holes in his memory. And that was fine for the first half of the season but I kept expecting it to come back at least somewhat. And there were flashes of the old familiar back and forth throughout the season. The "penis" thing in Birthrite cracked me up. And I thought it was very touching how Jack sat outside the room watching the whole time in Lifeboat. And I think they were great together in Fallout when they were having talks with the Kelownans or whatever the heck they call themselves. But it's not near as much as it was in previous seasons. But like I said I can see how with Daniel being gone a year could change the group dynamics somewhat. I'm disapointed but I'm still optimistic for next season.

                  But the Lost City thing doesn't bug me near as much as other people. I liked the exchange between them on the ship. It didn't feel stilted or glacial to me at all. When Daniel said he would have done it and Jack said he knew that conveyed a lot to me. And that Jack trusted Daniel to fix it. It wasn't as emotional as Jack and Teal'cs moment but it said a lot to me about the trust between them. But that's just me.

                  It was, is, and always will be GREEN

                  Comment


                    #10
                    But like I said I can see how with Daniel being gone a year could change the group dynamics somewhat.
                    You know, if I felt that they were trying to convey that, it would have been better. There's been fanfics where Jack's distance is explained because he feels wary because he lost Daniel. But, to me, the show isn't showing any of it. Fanfics are doing a much better job of dealing with it. And, when fanfics are by and large better than the show, you've got a problem. When more and more people are writing fanfics not because they want to explore things that weren't on the show, but they want to fix things, there's something wrong. Going with one argument, the show is coasting on the earlier seasons and expecting people to be satisfied with that. (nope, not buying) Or, they have largely dropped the friendship with a few small incidents so that anytime someone says that Jack doesn't act like he cares, these small things can be brought up as evidence that it's just as wonderful as it was before, and what are those people complaining about?

                    I thought the first half of the season was much better. Enemy Mine was probably the best episode between them, and Jack was absent for most of it. So, I also don't buy that RDA's schedule is the sole cause. But, it seemed the more situations would seem to pretty much beg for some deep friendship moments, that's when they pulled as far back as Pluto wrt it. If they can get away with just some banter, hey they'll toss a little bit in (Birthright was also nice, and interestingly CJ wrote it. He seems to know how to write for everyone). But, real care and concern? They don't seem to even bother trying to show why it's not there. It's like it's not at all important.
                    I'm a girl! A girly girly girl!

                    Okay, you got me. I can't accept change. This message may look like it was typed on a computer and posted on the internet, but it is actually cave drawings delivered by smoke signals.

                    Naquada Enhanced Chastity Belts -SG1 edition. On sale now! Heck, I'll give them away

                    Daniel Jackson Appreciation and Discussion -because he's more than pretty

                    http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=89


                    Daniel Jackson: The Beacon of Hope and The Man Who Opened the Stargate

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I do think their friendship is still there, we just don't see it as much. Like in Lost City, the "I know" bit, it was a nice moment for them, but it wasn't as much as I would have liked to see between them. I know it has alot to do with RDA's schedule, but it's true that a lot more of his time is spent on ship. Don't get me wrong, I am a shipper, and I love the ship we got towards the end of the series, but Jack & Daniel's friendship has always been my favourite thing about the show and I really hope more time can be spent looking at that. I think MS said there will be a lot of banter between them in New Order, so I'm looking forward to that!


                      I'm sorry if this post is after coming up about 20 times, but I'm having a problem posting & getting to other threads. It keeps saying "Database Error, there seems to be a slight problem with the database", and to click refresh, but it's not working.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        But what I wish they'd realize is that Jack and Daniel's friendship is not just "banter", it was warmth and caring as well mixed in with that verbal(and sometimes non-verbal) back and forth.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Thier used to be Whole ep on the Jack And Daniel Friendship, now it is not even part of the overall chemisty of the show(not in the writing), but it is still there between RDA and MS when they are togather(most of the time)
                          the last Real Jack and Daniel frienship show was Abyss. Evolution pt2 was suprosed to be but it just fell short, I thougt it had a good chance of being a something like Need; only a physical insteed of psychological way.
                          I'm not here man
                          Hello it was me

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by darklilac
                            Do TPTB really think we're stupid, RDA spent all his time playing the Jack&Sam and for TPTB the Jack and Daniel relationship is a problem for the Jack&Sam.
                            So they cut all the Jack and Daniel scenes.
                            They actually DID cut the Jack and Daniel scene... I have a copy of the script. I'll try to dig it up and post the original Jack/Daniel dialogue.

                            I was plenty surprised when I watched the show and didn't see the 'farewell' scene between J/D, small though it was. Especially since Sam and Teal'c got wonderful goodbye scenes - Teal'c's especially. That was a thing of beauty.

                            That scene cut was pretty much Mr. Straw for me... o_O

                            Comment


                              #15
                              i think their friendship is something that though has been toned down quite a lot in the past season still exists. it's not as "up front" and done to the effect of the jack/teal'c and especially the jack/sam friendship but it's there. notice how comfortable daniel was in jack's home and in evolution part II...basically the whole jack daniel parts...
                              My flickr photography.

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