Originally posted by VSS
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Is is wrong that I read that as when Jack proposed?
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It's very right if you stop there... and don't go any further.Originally posted by Cagranosalis View PostIs is wrong that I read that as when Jack proposed?
Like to the 'underhanded and un-Jack-like' part.
(BTW, nice Urgo write-up, Cags. So long as you're enjoying yourself, that is! You could just be a bit of a slacker like me, and it'd be okay. Well, I think it's okay, anyway!)
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Pht, VSS you are not a slacker at all. I am just one of those annoying people who doesn't do anything in half measures. And when I am doing something I love I tend to get a bit carried away.
Ah yeah, that's what I wanted to say (but could not find the right wording). Thank you.Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View Post
Originally posted by josiane View PostOh good catch with the similarity to Threads! Really all this, and the exceptionally close sitting in the infirmary that you also pointed out, just underline your final point about how comfortable they are, and unconsciously so, at this point. I hadn't made the connection either that this is the last time - although I'd argue there are flashes of it between 100 Days and the end of the season - the scene in the briefing room in Crystal Skull for example where Sam's knee is practically in Jack's lap leaps to mind But yes, otherwise you are exactly right - and way to bring the angst to one of the least angsty episodes of the whole show!
Just because those bolded points are similar...
See I am very much with Jenn on that about how I view Hundred Days and I will freely admit some of that was influenced by Rachel 500's excellent Aftershocks piece which left me punching the air and going "yes, yes that's so how it was!"Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
(Read it yourself here: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3512344/16/Aftershocks_II)
This is probably a discussion for tomorrow's review really but I will touch on it now since it is the clarify my original review. I tend to see Sam, at least, become very aware of her feelings in Hundred Days. While I don't dispute that they do have some nice flirty moments after this - and they have them now and again all the way through to the end of the series - I think the moment one or the other of them became aware they were entering / had entered the danger zone regarding feelings, there's an added subtext to the fun and flirty. Between this episode and Divide & Conquer I see Sam and having become aware of the love but not Jack (yet) Jack's revelation (for me) comes in Upgrades (although we don't see it until D&C.)
I think, in my mind Sam probably acknowledged her feelings as being love, assumed it was one sided (because, face it, up until then Jack had never done anything but show like with a bit of flirtyness towards her), compartmentalised them and got on with the job. Kind of suck it up. At this point, even if she realised she loved him during Hundred Days, there was no real emotional danger since it was a completely private emotion with no consequences outside of that was how she felt. It was probably very easy to kid herself into thinking that. Divide & Conquer effectively put the kybosh on that by showing us that yes, actually, being in love with someone whose life you may have to forfeit in the name of duty is not consequence free at all. Then, just in case we didn't get it, Entity rammed that message home with a sledgehammer. Cue the Angstorama of Sam and Jack's lives for the next four years.
So, to clarify, what I meant was that, flirty and fun, yes, there was plenty of that after this episode but (IMO anyway) never again without at least one of them having knowledge of feelings beneath that. That in itself, adds a new, possibly dangerous, layer to it.
I'll shut up now otherwise I doubt I'll have anything to say after the Hundred Days review.
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Heh, I'm really glad they're coming across as non-confrontational, I constantly worry about that when posting here.Originally posted by leiasky View Post
I guess, in general, what I look for the most in these episodes is Jack and Sam's friendship. Yes, I completely agree they develop romantic, 'shippy' feelings for each other and struggle with that over the years. However, the basis of the majority of their interactions are those of friends to me, and those shippy feelings do not prevent them from being friends. It's a friendship occasionally tinged with a tension that didn't exist in the early years, and perhaps not as deep/close a relationship as they both would like, but it's still a solid, supportive, and at times even affectionate friendship nonetheless, IMHO.
Whether or not Jack may have been jealous (I'm inclined to think not), my main point was that Colson wasn't shown having a crush or falling for Sam, unlike Narim, Martouf, Orlin, or McKay. That was a nice change, for Sam to get to interact with a man and not have that attraction/crush element.Originally posted by Zoser View Post
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I actually agree with that completely. I'd hasten to add, too, that I think the basis for a long-term, lasting *romance* is, in fact, friendship. Flowers and dances and romantic dates only last so long... There are thousand of moments in a life together spent in the living room/dining table/etc (even bedroom) that would be tedious (IMHO) spent with someone who wasn't also your best friend. The fact Sam and Jack are, I believe, also best friends - that they in fact bring out and support the best in each other - is, I believe the basis not only for their wonderful friendship but their romance as well.Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View Post
In fact, I believe a lot of the reason they held off on pursuing anything deeper for so long was for fear they'd lose what the did have, and also it was realizing they were losing their closeness - as friends because they were both moving on with other relationships and professional positions - that was the final impetus for them to try and find something more. They couldn't sit on that fence forever. They either had to lose what they had or gain what they'd always wanted.Comment
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Amen Jenn. With my husband it was not love at first sight and it was never really that giddy feeling. Instead I've found that we have a real connection because of those everyday thingsOriginally posted by JenniferJF View Post Love is knowing the other person isn't perfect and loving them because of it!
Jack and Sam spent so much time seeing each other at their best and worst - and like the commentary on Heroes - you don't face life and death together without either hating the person or really loving them. The Bible says in Proverbs "A brother is born of adversity" and I would say the same for any close relationship.Comment
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That's actually part of why I think Sam completely fell in love with Jack in Urgo. All that time in close proximity, interacting with him nearly day in and day out - even more so than usual - he became almost an extension of her. She couldn't imagine live without him there at her side. Which is why 100 Days coming right afterwards was so dramatic. She'd had him nearly all the time and then he was just *gone*. The contrast to her was so obvious she couldn't deny what it meant. IMHO.Originally posted by Twilight506 View PostComment
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OH! That makes it SO much more angsty. Sounds like a plot idea... so how do I unleash a steno on you?Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
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lol. I'm not sure there's anything to write, cause I think most of it is there onscreen. Or at least, as much as she would have been consciously aware. I think that's why she was so desperate to get him back and not simply wait. She couldn't stand being without him. I did write a tag to 100 Days awhile back, Running on Empty, which is about as close to consciously figuring it out and admitting it as I think Sam got. I'm watching Shades of Grey atm, and I can't help but think her sense of having 'lost' Jack carries through into that episode. She can hardly even seem to bear to look at him after he steals the device. Though I think, "No, Carter, I haven't been acting like myself since I met you, now I'm acting like myself," may be one of the best statements ever, and if you think about it, it's actually terribly sweet and goes back to the idea she brings out the best in him. And awful - because that's what he thinks about himself.Originally posted by Twilight506 View PostOH! That makes it SO much more angsty. Sounds like a plot idea... so how do I unleash a steno on you?Comment
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Well said and I very much agree. And their friendship is why, while I may not ship them on the show (don't ship anyone to be honest, the whole concept is still rather foreign to me), I've enjoyed quite a few ship fics, many written by some of the people on this thread.Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
It's also why when analyzing various scenes or events on the show, unless I'm hit over the head with 'ship', I'm going to see friendship as their primary motivation.
Huh, that's an interesting thought. I think had the events of Urgo not happened before 100 Days Sam still would have missed him, but perhaps his absence may not have hit her as hard since the contrast would not have been quite as large.Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
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I really enjoy hearing your viewpoint.Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View PostHeh, I'm really glad they're coming across as non-confrontational, I constantly worry about that when posting here.
I guess, in general, what I look for the most in these episodes is Jack and Sam's friendship. Yes, I completely agree they develop romantic, 'shippy' feelings for each other and struggle with that over the years. However, the basis of the majority of their interactions are those of friends to me, and those shippy feelings do not prevent them from being friends. It's a friendship occasionally tinged with a tension that didn't exist in the early years, and perhaps not as deep/close a relationship as they both would like, but it's still a solid, supportive, and at times even affectionate friendship nonetheless, IMHO.
And I would agree that having a friendship first and foremost is a solid foundation to a romantic relationship.Comment
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While I don't completely agree with the sentiment of the movie it does make me thing of "When Harry Met Sally" - men and women can't be friend b/c sex always gets in the way.Originally posted by Rachel500 View PostI really enjoy hearing your viewpoint.
And I would agree that having a friendship first and foremost is a solid foundation to a romantic relationship.
My modification is that if a man and a woman have good chemistry, a good friendship is going to lead to more (emotionally, not necessarily physically). I consider my husband my best friend (now I have best girlfriends too, but you get the idea) - I married him b/c we not only have chemistry but a shared sense of humor/viewpoint/interests.
And I would say the same happens with Jack and Sam. These early years are good chemistry mixed with shared traits/interest that by the time we get to S. 4 have developed into something deeper. I cringe at fanfic that has Captain Carter talking about how in love with Jack she is
Attracted, yes, but being attracted to someone doesn't mean you'd spend 3 months barely sleeping to rewrite the laws of physics to get them home By that point I think her feelings for friendship were starting to become more than that.
I've often felt that Jack was the first to fall - really fall - in that relationship. I think Sam definitely was feeling something but I'm not entirely convinced she was entirely sure of *what* she was feeling (she had the confusion with Jolinar). I have to think about this some more before I go any further with it because it's just a musing at this point...Comment
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I also have to think, considering Sam's intellect, she had to *know* what that meant, even though, as she told Janet in 100 Days, she was emotionally naive enough to think she could control her emotions and that wasn't a problem.Originally posted by Twilight506 View PostAttracted, yes, but being attracted to someone doesn't mean you'd spend 3 months barely sleeping to rewrite the laws of physics to get them home By that point I think her feelings for friendship were starting to become more than that.
I agree. I actually think Jack was starting to fall back in ItLoD (that scene in the locker room) and might even have been vaguely aware that he was feeling *something* - though I don't think he ever analyzed is emotions the way I think Sam would have - but that he didn't really realize he'd fallen in love to the point of not being able to imagine life without her until that moment in Upgrades/D&C. There are just too many long shots of Jack watching Sam, especially as she interacted with other men or was in danger, that make me think he was feeling too much already.Originally posted by Twilight506 View PostComment
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SG-1 are on Edora sitting on a hill side with the native woman Laira, waiting for the annual fire rain event. Fire rain turns out to be a meteor shower which, according to Laira grows more spectacular each year. When one meteor bounces off the atmosphere in a near miss, they grow concerned. Sam investigates further and deduce the planet’s orbit passes through an asteroid field every year that varies in thickness. Daniel goes to the local caves with Laira’s son, Garan and deduces that every 150 years or so, the meteor shower is so intense as to cause multiple ground strikes. Daniel also deduces that ancestors probably took shelter from the meteor showers in the caves.
SG-1 return to the village to try and talk the villagers round to going (temporarily) through the gate to safety, however several members of the village are sceptical and refuse to go.
Just at that point one particularly big meteor hits just outside the village and the storm begins, Sam, Teal’c and Daniel begin the evacuation, but Laira’s son has taken it upon himself to shelter in the caves. Laira and Jack go off to retrieve him. However while gone, a meteor makes a direct hit on the gate. Sam and Teal’c who have waited until the last minute for Jack, barely make it through.
24 hours later the SGC send a MALP through but it does not materialise on the other side. Sam theorises that naquadah hardened like an iris above the event horizon. Meanwhile on Edora, Jack and co. exit the caves to find a handful of stunned villagers who refused to leave. One of them informs Jack the gate has gone. Jack rushes to the gate’s location to find nothing but a dust filled crater.
Initially Jack starts to dig out the gate, hoping it is buried not destroyed, but he is also obligated to help the villagers rebuild and tend to their harvest - some of them harbour resentment against him, feeling he is responsible for the fact half their people are stranded off their world.
Back at the SGC, they attempt to contact their space travelling allies to see if anyone can send a ship for him. Meanwhile Sam suggests building a particle beam generator to break through the naquadah barrier. General Hammond give her the go ahead to do this. She works day and night on this, causing concern from others and admits to Janet that she misses Jack but, when questioned further, says it’s not a problem.
Jack continues to work in the fields by day and dig for the gate in his free time. Presumably at some point in this time he does stop digging, almost giving up hope.
Flash forward three months and Jack is still stuck on Edora, where he seems to have developed a relationship with Laira, albeit a fairly fledgling one at this point. They seem friendly and affectionate and share a kiss.
Jack goes to a local celebration o Edora gets quite drunk (judging by the hangover the next day) after which Laira tells his she want him to give him a child, they kiss and (presumably) sleep together, although Jack does tell Laira that there is a piece of him that will never stop thinking of home.
Sam, who has been working on the generator day and night, eventually has a working model. They initiate it and the plan is successful. They are to open up a pocket in the ground above the gate (which is on its side) which Teal’c is able to pass through and begin digging to the surface.
On Edora, Laira goes to throw Jacks old things away. Jack is reluctant at first but agrees. However before she does so, Laira turns on the radio and hears Sam’s voice. She broods in this for some time but eventually tells Jack who goes to the gate and digs Teal’c out in the nick of time before he runs out of oxygen.
The villagers are returned and reunited with their loved ones and Jack is able to go home, but it is not without reluctance at leaving Laira behind. We are left wondering is Jack did get Laira pregnant.
Favourite Line
Jack: I don’t even like my company right now."
Laira: "You will again. Loss is that way."
(my reason for picking this is because Laira is very wise to realise that Jack is grieving for the loss of his former life and exactly and accurately relates it to her own experiences of grief. Oddly enough, even the whole three month thing has some dgeree of accuracy in real life, since most psychologists who deal with grief will explain that the first three months after a loss is a chaotic time when the person is adjusting to the significant person (or in Jack's place, planet) no longer being in their lives. I'm not sure if it's written this way by chance or design but it's a lovely comment in an episode that is, essentially about people dealing with significant change in their lives. )
Favourite moment
The scene where we flash forward three months and Jack’s rowing along. I just love the serene beauty of the location here, and that perfectly still lake.
Review
I really like this episode. I particularly like the scientific accuracy here and there, like the asteroid belt, the way the fire rain originate from a point in space (like real meteors do) and the rain after the meteor storm (particles thrown into the atmosphere might well seed clouds and cause this kind of deluge). Of course there’s a few dodgy science moments that don’t bear too close a scrutiny too.
I love the symbolism here too. Near the beginning we see Jack and Laira walking along a bridge of some kind. The water is completely still and it’s a beautiful serene day. Moments later there’s a cataclysm of a fire rain. It’s really jarring and only goes to heighten the sense of disaster these people go through. The music score also underlies this - there’s a really definite Edoran theme when we’re on the planet both before and after the meteor storm. Again, this goes to emphasise the simple and gentle life these people lead.
I have to admit I did have to double check this wasn’t a Martin Wood episode, since I love the direction so much. It isn’t but, gosh, it’s beautifully done!
I think this really shows off RDA’s acting skills (not to mention his hotness because, well, he is especially delectable in this episode). Particularly the end when he’s digging Teal’c out and there’s tears streaming down his joy filled face.
I get the impression Jack basically has a massive sulk on after getting stranded. He barely speaks. I imagine this is not helped by the fact half the village sort of blame him for their people being missing and the Garan at least blames himself for getting Jack stranded. Laira is the only one who seems willing to embrace him into the community at first.
I shall probably get rotten cabbages thrown at me for saying this but Jack and Laira have a really nice chemistry. It’s clear from the start that they get along well so the progression from a friendship to a relationship is really natural. Bearing in mind there’s a whole almost three months we don’t see so don’t know what developed between them and how close they have become but I do get the impression that the first kiss they share is the one we see. And actually, it’s beautifully shot kiss too - I love the way the camera does a full pan around them. Sure, I’d like it a whole lot more if it had been Sam he was kissing but, that wasn’t to be. I know plenty of people think Laira was pushy but, no, she really wasn’t. She believed Jack could never go home, Jack - who is more technologically advanced - had some hope but fairly quickly realised it was like looking for a needle in a haystack. By the time he "gives up" and starts a proper relationship with Laira there is no reason for him to think he will ever go home at this point.
I also know people have accused Laira of being cold at the end when she takes so long to tell Jack about the radio, but actually, put yourself in her place. She has no way of knowing that Teal’c is in a cavern running out of air. She does tell Jack - because she has to. She knows what it means to him to go home but she also knows it means she will lose him. Under the circumstances, I’d be sitting there having a good hard think about that before I told him.
Do I think Laira was pregnant at the end? No. Not at all. Because the SGC forms a treaty with these people and Jack would have known if she had got pregnant and he’s not the type to abandon his kid. Simple as.
OK, I know I have been very defensive of Laira there but, honestly, I am so sick of seeing her completely demonised in fics and in discussions when I don’t really see what she did other than get in the way of Sam/Jack love.
Shippy observations
When Jack gently chastises Sam for "sucking the joy" out of the fire rain with her technical explanation, she gives him a cute little smile. It’s very typical Sam / Jack teasing.
There’s quite a lingering shot of Sam after they first attempt to dial Edora and the MALP is destroyed, and again after the second MALP is sent.
The scene between Sam and Janet where Sam admits to missing him and is very quick to deny there’s a "problem" with how she feels. And just in case you feel like deluding yourself into thinking this is just about their friendship, there’s that subtle rework of the Sam/Jack theme playing here to cue you in that this is about Sam having romantic feelings Jack.
There’s also the end scene. They didn’t have to cut back to Sam turning looking a bit green there when Jack’s saying goodbye to Laira. The only conclusion for them doing so is that they want to emphasise that Sam wasn’t expecting to see that and it’s left her hurt and confused. It’s very significant, particularly with what happens in the next episode.
One other observation, not about Sam and Jack but about Laira and Jack is that there’s a lot of reaction shots off Jack to Laira and vice versa. This is evident right from the start of the episode and it’s the intent of the episode to set up the romantic relationship between them. Now apply that logic to other episodes and think of the time there’s reaction shots off of Jack onto Sam or the other way round. There's quite a lot of it, isn't there.
Last edited by Cagranosalis; 11 December 2009, 02:21 PM.sigpicComment
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I won't get into some of the other things about this episode that I like or dislike, but I disagree about the bit where Jack "gently" chastises Sam for "sucking all the fun" out of the event. I didn't think it was gentle at all. I thought it was a bit harsh and rather mean spirited. To me he had been flirting with Laira (and I actually find nothing wrong with that; Laira was flirting with him, too). I felt that he slapped Sam down rather unkindly right in front of Laira ... something he did all too often right in front of other people in my opinion. He was so busy paying attention to Laira, he didn't care what it sounded like or how Sam might have felt. And while Sam may have smiled at him, I thought she sort of flinched when he said that. In fact, I flinch every time I see that scene (which isn't oftenOriginally posted by Cagranosalis View Post
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.Spoiler:). It was uncalled for and he didn't need to do that.
Just my opinion on that particular bit ...
The part where Laira took so long to tell Jack about the radio ... had she not told Jack about it, she could also have condemned her people to be permanently stranded on earth or wherever they were (maybe the SGC had sent them to the Land of Light temporarily or some other place). And that bothered me just as much as the possibility that Teal'c could have died. She seemed to care more about Jack staying with her than whether her own people got to come back home. And many of them had gone through the gate before the fire rain buried it, so Jack at least would maybe have assumed they were safe.
I do agree with the bit about Laira and Jack having chemistry.
Last edited by hedwig; 11 December 2009, 03:08 PM.Comment
My Fics - the fluffy/silly variety
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