Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[UhSir]

But, that implies Teal'c doesn't know the meaning of the word "calm", which he probably does. I think that's where it loses me.

For instance, if the phrase they used was "settle down" and he said it would "settle up" that would be funny. Because "settle" is a more neutral word. "Calm" however, implies well- calm.

The other way it would be funny was if "calm" and "up" were used in some other common phrase, or had anything to do with one another, but they don't. "Settle up" fits this criteria, too, because people do settle up- as in settling up a bill.

So it's not a pun, either.

I can't explain why everyone else thinks it's funny but I can tell you why I do. First, it's the way he says it. He's so dry and matter-of-fact and sort of like a Messager of Doom. Also how he looks when he's saying it. He looks so confident. Finally, it is his incorrect use of the word "calm" with "up." The fact that it doesn't mean what he thinks it means and, in a way, how they actually cancel each other out, at least they do in my analytical brain.

P.S. Y'all are embarrassing me about the shippy bit. I only just caught it this time. I had to rewind several times to be sure.

[Coela Bellatore]

I didn't see any particular ship in Thor's Chariot but that may be because I was blinded by the fact I was so happy they actually got in a firefight and used their weapons.

[VSS]

I didn't see any particular ship in Thor's Chariot but that may be because I was blinded by the fact I was so happy they actually got in a firefight and used their weapons.

Gun love. Wait until Allegiance.
Well, you may not have quite the same reaction as I did.

[majorsal]

I think she was using it like Daniel was using it, but she wasn't 700 years old - it was just making her feel good rather than prolonging her life. So yeah I do see your point Sally, however, do you think that she was acting more grounded than Daniel; when he was addicted he was behaving irrationally and irratically whereas Shyla didn't. Do you take this as she's had more time to get used to the addictive affects of the sarcophagus?

i really don't know, because i haven't seen the ep in so long. i just kind of liked the character and felt a bit sorry for her, even though i know she did some not so great things. but she was trying to commit suicide when the ep started, and she willingly decided to destroy the sarc, knowing she was going to go through some heavy duty bad physical effects, and... so i can forgive her for some of what she did to daniel, because she wasn't herself i guess.

[Aveo_amacus]

Rewatching Thor's Chariot - it's not an S/J observation but..
I find it interesting that Daniel says that he's hoping to find a weapon, it just strikes me as an indicator of the transformation we see Daniel's character undergo during his time on SG1: when he first starts he only carries a 9-mil and wants to 'talk' whereas by the end he's much more willing - to use a Jackism - to shoot first, send flowers later

[VSS]

Rewatching Thor's Chariot - it's not an S/J observation but..
I find it interesting that Daniel says that he's hoping to find a weapon, it just strikes me as an indicator of the transformation we see Daniel's character undergo during his time on SG1: when he first starts he only carries a 9-mil and wants to 'talk' whereas by the end he's much more willing - to use a Jackism - to shoot first, send flowers later

That's a good point.
Perhaps he feels bad because he's the one who actually blew away Thor's Hammer? That may be enough to make him think of the immediate survival needs of the people of Cimmeria.

[Toomi]

Message In A Bottle


Banner by luvnjack

Fave Quote: Teal'c: Undomesitcated equines could not remove me.

Fave Scene: I'm not sure..... I think the scene with Jack and Teal'c where Jack thinks he's screwed up by taking the risk and Teal'c reassures him.

Very cool opening scene. Looks like the moon, but not quite, especially when you see the structure there. It's cool to see them all in space suits (but perhaps that's me going crazy again...). Sam finds an artifact that is emitting energy but they can't tell exactly what it's for or what it does. It's been going for a very long time. Daniel surmises it's a time capsule left by the civilization that once inhabited the planet/moon. Sam asks if it's a booby trap and Teal'c replies 'booby.' Always makes me smirk as I think of my nephew picking that word up from this show and his mother being horrified.

Sam tells the Lieutenant (aka Graham) not to be nervous and Daniel points out that it's perhaps because of Sam that he's nervous. Daniel suggests a crush when Graham comments that they are recording. I love the look of shock and horror shared by Daniel and Sam. It's pretty humerous, as is Daniel's 'Hey, the artifact!'

Hammond lets SG-1 know that the NID want the artifact and delays their next mission for 24 hours. Jack pops by the lab, bright and chipper, to let Sam and Daniel know they need to go get rest to be ready for their next mission. Sam agrees reluctantly while Daniel tries to argue. Just as their about to leave the device starts heating up. Radiation starts to increase so they plan to send the object back to the planet. As the device starts to heat up it opens and then develops some spikes. In the gateroom the sphere plants a spike into the ground, followed by others, until it catches Jack's shoulder and pins him up on the wall.

First off, I"m very squemish. That shot always freaks me out. Second off.... for the medcically inclined, if a human was hanging off a spike by their shoulder, wouldn't the weight of the human pull them down?

When the medical team heads down there to look at him, Janet wonders why there isn't blood. I wonder why someone doesn't get Jack something to put his feet on so he's not hanging there, making the wound worse.

Jack orders Teal'c to shoot the device and Teal'c shoots it several times, the device absorbing the staff weapon fire. Hammond orders the base into quarantine and someone finally gets Jack a chair to sit on.

Sam and Daniel have a meeting with othe rspecialists on the base, Daniel leading the translation team, Sam explaining to the others that they'll be working out of the astrophysics lab. Janet pulls Sam away to show her something. It's mobile, small, and slightly radioactive. Janet pulled samples off Jack's clothing near the wound, and likens it to flesh eating disease. UV lights are brought in and they can see the virus/bacteria travelling up the spike, into Jack and into the concrete. Graham shows Sam his hands, he too has the virus/bacteria travelling along his veins.

Janet asks Hammond to bring in more antibiotics as it seems to slow down the virus. Unfortunatly, Graham is allergic to the antibiotic but Hammond reminds Janet that in quarentine nothing in, nothing out. Hammond asks Sam for her opinion, and Sam points out that they can't guarantee that the organism won't travel through the gate with them. Plus if they're off world, they won't have acess to anti biotics to help them. They agree to stay at the SGC.

Teal'c tells a joke. Jack corrects him, but he's pretty thrilled by it despite his condition. Siler is almsot finished cutting through the spike when the spike moves further through Jack. That metal/substance looks very hot!!! They even have it glowing red!!! OWWWWWWWWWW!!!!

Sam figures out that the organism feeds on energy. The screens on the computer goes awry and Sam figures out it's in the computers. As she runs towards an elevator there's problems all over the place, organism eating through things, then the elevator stops. Daniel gets Sam out and she heads to see Hammond. After she suggests that they allow the CO2 to rise the autodestruct kicks in. Sam informs Hammond that the device feeds off energy and the autodestruct would provide plenty of that! However, the organism in the computer stops them from shutting the auto destruct off.

When Daniel is rubbing his eyes, I can't help but notice how yellow the fingers are on his right hand...

Sam and Daniel figure out that the organism is trying to communicate to them. Sam suggests that they cut of Jack's medication to allow the organism to do so.

Sam grabs Jack's hand to explain to him what they want to do and the risks. Jack feebly carresses her hand with his thumb.

Teal'c then blasts the device with the staff weapon while the oxygen levels are high to try and increase the organism so it can communicate. Sam goes to check on Jack and finds no pulse but the organism begins to speak through Jack (beginning with good morning campers).

The organism explains that it doesn't want to go back to the planet and has no problem with the base exploding so it can multiply. They offer it another planet.

The organism returns their computer control to them and Walter starts dialing the gate. Jack/the organism pick up the sphere and place it in the stargate and with 1 second to go the auto destruct is aborted, as Jack collapses on the ramp, seemingly healed. I can only assume the organism healed him...

Sam and Jack implications: Hmmm.... I used to see a fair bit of ship in this episode but after rewatching I'm struggling to remember where. There's that nice momemnt where they're holding hands, the way Sam grasps his hand while she's talking to him, the way Jack carresses her hand with his thumb. Was that to give consent to her plan? I always thought so, but seeing it this time I wondered if it was just a comfort thing? He was half out of it..... When Sam finds no pulse she has this look for a few moments that's all horror at what has happened. It passes as quickly as the look of glee she gets when Jack/Organism starts to talk.

Rewatching this episode, I think it does a lot for Sam's character. She gets to flex her scientific mind and we see her take control, come up with solutions, and discuss/argue outcomes with Hammond.

[gater62]

How can I already be behind? It's summer, FCOL!

I loved the framing of Jack and Sam in this show. Lots of it especially in the beginning. I don't have anything new to add to the discussion before except that I caught the look away UhSir pointed out! I did see another moment (at least to me) after Jack and Teal'c led away the Jaffa forces, when they met back up and Jack asks if they're ok, he really is looking and asking Sam that. At the end he sort of flicks his eyes to Daniel, but the question was addressed to Sam! Still that feeling of protectiveness???

[VSS]

Fave Scene: I'm not sure..... I think the scene with Jack and Teal'c where Jack thinks he's screwed up by taking the risk and Teal'c reassures him.

I think that was pretty significant, as well. It's very rare that Jack admits to making mistakes. Most of the time I think he figures that he's done the best that he can, and then moves on.

Daniel suggests a crush when Graham comments that they are recording. I love the look of shock and horror shared by Daniel and Sam. It's pretty humerous, as is Daniel's 'Hey, the artifact!'

Oh, poor Lt. Simmons! But, he ends up making Daniel feel like a heel, rightfully so!

First off, I"m very squemish. That shot always freaks me out. Second off.... for the medcically inclined, if a human was hanging off a spike by their shoulder, wouldn't the weight of the human pull them down?

I think at the very least, his right shoulder would sag significantly, and it doesn't. So, it is not terribly believable- but believable enough because I don't like whump, either. Also, I don't like how the arms of the device sag. If it's rigid enough to spear Jack, and go into the wall it ought to be stiff.

When the medical team heads down there to look at him, Janet wonders why there isn't blood. I wonder why someone doesn't get Jack something to put his feet on so he's not hanging there, making the wound worse.

They do, but for some reason we never see it. Somewhere along in here, Daniel says something about wanting the orb to be something wonderful, and I think he's probably berating himself for not thinking about the possible consequences to his friends. He's not a practical man.

Teal'c tells a joke. Jack corrects him, but he's pretty thrilled by it despite his condition.

This part of the episode was very poignant. Teal'c cracks his first joke just for Jack. I thought this was a very touching scene and you can almost feel how Teal'c thinks the only useful thing he can do is just sit with Jack, which is actually quite important, as no one else can. (That symbiote comes in handy at times!). He even mops Jack's forehead with a little handkerchief. Awww!

The organism explains that it doesn't want to go back to the planet and has no problem with the base exploding so it can multiply. They offer it another planet.

I thought it was significant when it says "O'Neill wants to live." They cut to Daniel and to me that is a reminder of when Daniel talked Jack into not killing himself in the movie.

I never really thought this episode was all that shippy, and I always felt so sorry for Jack being pinned to the wall like that. In some ways I felt Sam was almost being a Daniel in this episode- so caught up in the scientific aspects that she forgets what Jack is going through. Toward the end his suffering seems to have more of a personal effect on her, though. It's possible that I think this just because she really is forced to be away from him to work on a solution.

As for the part where she holds his hand, again, I don't see much more than friendship and concern, and he rubs her hand with his thumb just to let her know he heard what she said and agrees. Then she takes out the IV. So it's almost as if there's a practical reason for her to even touch him at all.

I'm not really a huge fan of this episode, though I do like the Jack/Teal'c interaction. Also, it's interesting how they lead you to believe Lt. Simmons is going to die- but he doesn't.

[josiane]

This part of the episode was very poignant. Teal'c cracks his first joke just for Jack. I thought this was a very touching scene and you can almost feel how Teal'c thinks the only useful thing he can do is just sit with Jack, which is actually quite important, as no one else can. (That symbiote comes in handy at times!). He even mops Jack's forehead with a little handkerchief. Awww!

Oh I love this part too, and it's another example of how all of SG1 pull together whatever happens. There may not be an obvious way for one of them to help out or be involved, but they still stick together and find some way of being useful, even if it's just being there for each other.

I thought it was significant when it says "O'Neill wants to live." They cut to Daniel and to me that is a reminder of when Daniel talked Jack into not killing himself in the movie.

Oh yes absolutely. This is another step in Jack's rehabilitation in this way.

I never really thought this episode was all that shippy, and I always felt so sorry for Jack being pinned to the wall like that. In some ways I felt Sam was almost being a Daniel in this episode- so caught up in the scientific aspects that she forgets what Jack is going through. Toward the end his suffering seems to have more of a personal effect on her, though. It's possible that I think this just because she really is forced to be away from him to work on a solution.

As for the part where she holds his hand, again, I don't see much more than friendship and concern, and he rubs her hand with his thumb just to let her know he heard what she said and agrees. Then she takes out the IV. So it's almost as if there's a practical reason for her to even touch him at all.

I'm not really a huge fan of this episode, though I do like the Jack/Teal'c interaction. Also, it's interesting how they lead you to believe Lt. Simmons is going to die- but he doesn't.

I agree, it's not terribly obviously shippy, and Sam and Jack are apart for a lot of it, but in terms of the development of the ship as a whole I always put this together with Entity, as what happens to Jack here is after all very similar to what happened with Sam then. And likewise it's Sam here that is the one that 'kills' him in order to cure him. So while what happens in MiaB isn't quite so shippy in itself, it is part of the overall mirroring pattern of Sam and Jack's experiences. Which I think is important in terms of setting up parallels and mutual understanding, and also a subconcious portrayal that they match - cf the physical mirroring of body language we see so much.

[leiasky]

Ii've missed SO much of the discussion that its a daunting task to try and keep up. I'm on page 62 and I don't even know how many pages I need to catch up on. It'll probably take me all day. *sigh*

But I love this thread and its great to come to when one wants to discuss the episodes in such detail as is done here!

[leiasky]

Here's a question from out of left field for you guys-
Do you ever think that Sam and Jack would have kids? Why or why not, and under what circumstances?
I'm doing research.

While my little shippy heart would love to see Sam pop out a little Jake, I just don't think it would happen with the way the characters are being portrayed on the show - post SG-1 era.

Just judging by how the characters were developed, I think they'd make great parents, though.

Well, we do know for sure that they did in one AU, the one from The Ripple Effect where Carter was on maternity leave because JM confirmed Jack was indeed the father. I had forgotten about that. I wonder what Jack was doing in that AU? So maybe it isn't as far out of the question as I had imagined.

Hmm, good point. I didn't remember that either. Would like to see some sort of reference back to this episode at some point - maybe during a discussion about a baby. I disliked the episode for the exact reason Jack wasn't even mentioned so I tend to have a selective memory where it's concerned.

The duress password thing is just genius. Does something like this actually exist nowadays in the military?

I'm to the GameKeeper discussion now. . . I'm so behind!

I'm with Toomi in that I didn't understand why Jack's strongest memory or past that he would have wanted to change wouldn't be Charlie's death. Why was his Colonel dying picked? Or was that the first thing in Jack's history that really changed him as a person/soldier and impacted his life? Not the most heartbreaking, but the first?

I would have LOVED to see Sam and Teal'c past as well. It would have been a great episode for all of them. Instead we just got a bit of history on Daniel and Jack.

More later . . .

[leiasky]

One I definitely remember is by Janissima (I think), called "A Father's Determination" wherein J/S little son (J.J.) was used to activate some kind of technology that only he (along with Jack) could activate.

Ohh, I'd love to read this so if you can find a link, can you post it?


Everyone notice the guest characters always seem to have names beginning with 'S'. Shyla, Sarah (Daniel's ex), Sara (Jack's ex). What was the name of the woman in Abyss? Didn't she have an 'S' name as well?

Talk about not being creative! LOL!

I like Message in a Bottle a lot - yay, I'm finally to the end of the thread!

I don't think there is anything overly shippy in the episode but there is an overwhelming sense of friendship among the team for their hurt member.

[VSS]

I agree, it's not terribly obviously shippy, and Sam and Jack are apart for a lot of it, but in terms of the development of the ship as a whole I always put this together with Entity, as what happens to Jack here is after all very similar to what happened with Sam then. And likewise it's Sam here that is the one that 'kills' him in order to cure him. So while what happens in MiaB isn't quite so shippy in itself, it is part of the overall mirroring pattern of Sam and Jack's experiences. Which I think is important in terms of setting up parallels and mutual understanding, and also a subconcious portrayal that they match - cf the physical mirroring of body language we see so much.

I do see the parallels with Entity insofar as in this episode Sam (and Daniel) talked Jack into bringing the orb to the SGC, and so I'm sure she feels responsible, and yes there are definite similarities with her situation that honestly, I hadn't even seen until you mentioned it. But I also think that the situation in Entity is worse for Jack, because it's his feelings for her that get her into trouble- something that shouldn't have been there in the first place, whereas Sam was acting as her job required her to do. So with Sam and Daniel, the most we can say is that s**t happens even when you do your best- with Jack it really was his fault.

But it is interesting how many experiences they share. I'm not sure how any one of these SG-1 team members could have relationships outside the SGC. Who would ever understand what they've been through?

But I love this thread and its great to come to when one wants to discuss the episodes in such detail as is done here!

That's great! I always learn new things here. I hope I can keep this up as regularly through the summer since I won't actually be home, so bear with us.

I'm with Toomi in that I didn't understand why Jack's strongest memory or past that he would have wanted to change wouldn't be Charlie's death. Why was his Colonel dying picked? Or was that the first thing in Jack's history that really changed him as a person/soldier and impacted his life? Not the most heartbreaking, but the first?

I guess I'm of the opinion that it's partly what the Gamekeeper wants to see. What happens to Jack is a lot like what happens to Teal'c in Avatar. It's like some kind of virtual reality war game he can't win, but keeps trying different approaches. There are more variations on the "game" than there would have been with Charlie- that problem would have been easier for Jack to solve.

There's more entertainment value for the residents in replaying Jack's mission.

[leiasky]

But it is interesting how many experiences they share. I'm not sure how any one of these SG-1 team members could have relationships outside the SGC. Who would ever understand what they've been through?

Or any SG team member. Not just SG-1.

There's more entertainment value for the residents replaying Jack's mission.

Hmm, definitely good point. In a way it was better and less painful for Jack than having to relive his son's death.

Though - how many variations did they do of Daniel's parents death? They could have done the same for Jack and the emotional impact would have been stronger.