Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Coela Bellatore]

Well, this is the Jack/Sam Ship Discussion thread! (though I hope it's more discussing than just the I love babies.

There is also a Sam/Jack Ship Appreciation thread and come on this is soap opera stuff. Anyway I'll back off, I'm cranky today. It was a bad day .

[VSS]

There is also a Sam/Jack Ship Appreciation thread and come on this is soap opera stuff. Anyway I'll back off, I'm cranky today. It was a bad day .

Uh oh, when your days are bad, they're very, very bad. I hope everything turns out all right.

[Coela Bellatore]

Uh oh, when your days are bad, they're very, very bad. I hope everything turns out all right.

Yeah we are all fine (my squads and me).

A bad day for me is 4 daisy chained 155mm artillery rounds underneath a dead dog stuffed with about 12 grenades. The worst thing is that the dog was tied down which means then expected us sooner and hoped we would go help a wounded animal. I get so freaking mad when people call them "freedom fighters." Most of these Taliban are just ****ing sickos.

[dipsofjazz]

There is also a Sam/Jack Ship Appreciation thread and come on this is soap opera stuff. Anyway I'll back off, I'm cranky today. It was a bad day .

No matter what job you have, it doesn't mean you can come in here and put down what other posters are saying. We are all supposed to respect our fellow posters, even if we disagree with what they say.
Just because you don't like baby talk in the thread doesn't mean it's wrong for us to talk about it.....it just means you don't like it.

Discussing having children happens in the show. Perhaps once you've seen these episodes you can give us your views on what you think about Sam and Jack having children.

[Coela Bellatore]

No matter what job you have, it doesn't mean you can come in here and put down what other posters are saying. We are all supposed to respect our fellow posters, even if we disagree with what they say.
Just because you don't like baby talk in the thread doesn't mean it's wrong for us to talk about it.....it just means you don't like it.

Discussing having children happens in the show. Perhaps once you've seen these episodes you can give us your views on what you think about Sam and Jack having children.

Whatever, I'm watching Season 3 now to cool off, I'll check back in later.

[gater62]

There is also a Sam/Jack Ship Appreciation thread and come on this is soap opera stuff. Anyway I'll back off, I'm cranky today. It was a bad day .

(((Coela Bellatore))) Sorry to hear about your bad day.

When is the Gamekeeper on for discussion?

[sg-1fanintn]

well duress codes exist (or are supposed to exist) for negotion/hostage situations so I thought it would make sense to design a secondary database filled with what appears to be information but is actually wrong so if someone is captured and forced to produce information they could use that password and the kidnappers are none the wiser - literally.
But apparently I'm the only one who thought that'd be a good idea

Anyone who has a home security system also has a duress password to give the security company if they call for verification and the homeowner's life is in jeopardy. It lets the security company know to tell police that an intruder very likely is holding hostages.

[VSS]

You know what, i was off by a day. We're discussing The Gamekeeper tomorrow. Here's the Season 2 Schedule:

May 18 The Serpent’s Lair
May 20 In the Line of Duty
May 22 Prisoners
May 27 The Gamekeeper
May 29 Need
June 1 Thor’s Chariot
June 3 Message in a Bottle
June 5 Family
June 8 Secrets
June 10 Bane
June 12 The Tok’ra Part 1
June 15 The Tok’ra Part 2
June 17 Spirits
June 19 Touchstone
June 22 The Fifth Race
June 24 A Matter of Time
June 26 Holiday
June 29 Serpent’s Song
July 2 One False Step
July 6 Show and Tell
July 8 1969
July 10 Out of Mind

If you are in the US you can see these for free on hulu.com

[gater62]

*contemplates taking headphones to school so I can watch the episode as students work on the discussion questions for their final exam*

*doubts administrators would be very understanding*

[Toomi]

GameKeeper


Banner By Jumble

Fave Scene: Where Jack toments the fake Hammond. There's a moment where he looks like he might be thinking that it may in fact be reality and he's really blown it but it passes quickly.

The show opens with SG-1 discussing the video of the planet they're heading to. Stepping through the gate they arrive in a garden, which Jack points out that where there's flowers, there's snakes. Daniel points out there's also flowers and sneezes promptly (Daniel's sneeze was pretty thought out!!! It's either an effect after or MS blowing some dust when he 'sneezes'). They head to the metallic dome seen on the recorded footage and come across people attached to some device.

The metallic chords holding the others in the chairs suddenly reach out and pull SG-1 into a chair each, knocking them out.

The next scene shows Jack and Teal'c both holding different weapons, not in SG gear. Jack can't figure out where they are but they both remember what just happened. Kawalsky pulls up with some other folk he knew. The man called John tells Jack that it's Colonel and reminds him he's a Captain. Jack remembers that the Colonel dies on this mission and it happened in East Germany in 1982. Jack thinks he's dreaming or halucinating so the Colonel punches him. Jack pulls of Teal'c's cap to reveal no symbol of Aphophis and a full head of hair.

Jack ponders that they've been pulled into a time machine and they are both reliving his past. The mission begins and Jack joins in, remembering past mistakes. However, the Colonel dies in his arms anyway. Jack and Teal'c fall back but suddenly the entire scene begins again.

We then see Sam and Daniel's side of things, both dressed in different clothing. Daniel is wearing a very comfy/seventies looking sweater and Sam looks great in her outfit!!!! Daniel recognizes it as the New York Museum of Art. He goes to an exhibition being set up where a coverstone is being lowered into place with a man and a woman supervising underneath it. Daniel reveals that they are his parents. The structure collapses as Daniel watches in horror.

Back to Jack and Teal'c who are doing round two. Just as Jack suggests something that would change the outcome, many black robed people appear. The assault begins and the Colonel dies again, in almost the same time and place.

Jack then threatens the Colonel the next time it all begins again and the Keeper introduces himself and tells Jack to stop arguing and proceed with the mission. The Keeper tells Jack that it's what it's what he's always wished for. Jack reveals that it was the worst blown mission that he's participated in and the Keeper tells him that it was one mission he's always wanted to change. Jack refuses to play the game and stays with his back turned as he listens to gunfire in the distance.

Sam is trying to comfort Daniel over the witnessing of his parents death. Sam beings to theorize what has happened and she doesn't think it's a time travel device as there's no youngDaniel also witnessing the accident and she thinks it's just a piece of advanced technology. Daniel makes an attempt to get his parents out of there, and they call him Danny. Daniel tells them he hurt himself, and broke his leg, which his mother tells him that he's not hurt that badly as he's still walking. The structure collapses again. Sam points out the black robed audience and tells him it's probably a simulation of a memory, the strongest one he remembers. Daniel reveals that he's spent a long time contemplating if he could have done anything to change the outcome and the Keeper morphs from one of the bystanders. After another collapse Daniel refuses to play and walks away from the soon to be accident scene.

The Keeper plays with a device and brings Jack and Teal'c into Daniel's reality. Sam explains her theory to Jack. Sam wants to know how it works and Jack demands to be let go but the Keeper explains he can't. The Keeper tells them that Teal'c and Sam have a block on their minds, hence they didn't get their own reality. Teal'c because of the symbiote, and Teal'c guesses that Jolinar may be the reason for Sam's block.

The Keeper tells them that the outside world is uninhabitable and was destroyed by a chemical attack, they destroyed their own planet. Sam tells them that their planet is fine, beautiful and habitable. The Keeper becomes upset and Jack surmises that the Keeper is keeping it from the other residents. When Jack begins to yell the truth to the residents, the Keeper removes the residents from the reality. Daniel points out that if they stay in the realities they will have to interract with the residents and the Keeper abruptly releases them.

Back at the SGC Daniel proposes that they head back to the planet to rescue the residents but Janet points out that they can't remove the people because the machines could be keeping them alive. Hammond wants SG-1 to go back for more information and SG-1 balks. Hammond is really pushy towards SG-1 and convincing them to stay, telling Jack he could see his son. Jack tells Hammond he's not the real Hammond, Sam catches on quickly. When Hammond slips and calls the captives residents, the rest of SG-1 realise that Jack is telling the truth. Hammond orders them to isolation.

One of the guards in their room is Kawalsky who tries to convince them all that it really isn't a bad thing to be in a reality they could imagine, or one they would like to relive. Jack asks Kawalsky who he really is and then attacks him, SG-1 escaping.

The residents meet them in the hallway and SG-1 explain to them what their planet looks like. Jack leads them all to the fake gateroom where Hammond shuts down the gate and then morphs into the Keeper with SG-1 hot on his heels. They come across themselves sitting motionless in the devices and then they awaken.

They catch the Keeper who explains that his people damaged their planet and he doesn't want to let them out as they'll ruin their world again. We see the residents outside enjoying the garden and SG-1 heads home as the Keeper freaks out on the residents who are happliy picking flowers.

Implications for Sam and Jack: Overall, nothing I can see really. Anyone else?

I find this episode to be more of a Jack/Teal'c and Sam/Daniel friendship episode and taking an episode to explain Daniel's loss and Jack's past. I think this is the first time we see any evidence that Jolinar has changed something in Sam's body (I haven't watched Prisoners yet... was there anything in there?) as both her and Teal'c have a block on their minds.

While it's interesting to see Jack as a Captain and get an idea of his background, Daniel's memory/reality is more life changing. We see where he got his passion for history and his father is a Dr too. Is this the only time in the series where Daniel refers to his parents? His memory is quite clear but I wouldn't be able to guess his age. I will say he's probably older than 6 but not over 12 or so by the way his parents address and talk to him.

While TPTB explain why they don't go into Sam's background and allude to Jolinar as the cause, I can't help but wonder why they didn't use her memory. I like seeing Daniel's memory but it would've been good to see some of Sam's background as at this point we still don't know that much about her. What would her memory have been? It is hinted that it's the strongest moment or the moment they want to change most and it fits with Daniel's memory. Would Sam's have been her mothers death? Why wasn't Jack's strongest memory or thing he wanted to change the most have been his son's death? Was it perhaps just a decision by TPTB so as not to focus the entire episode on death? It just doesn't seem to fit with what's written in the episode.

For strongest memories, Daniel's fits. Jack's could have been his son's death, Sam's her mothers death and what about Teal'c had he had his own reality? His fathers death?

The lead resident has been in either SG-1 or SGA???? I recognize her face.

[hedwig]

GameKeeper

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t...Gamekeeper.jpg
Banner By Jumble

Fave Scene: Where Jack toments the fake Hammond. There's a moment where he looks like he might be thinking that it may in fact be reality and he's really blown it but it passes quickly.

Spoiler:

The show opens with SG-1 discussing the video of the planet they're heading to. Stepping through the gate they arrive in a garden, which Jack points out that where there's flowers, there's snakes. Daniel points out there's also flowers and sneezes promptly (Daniel's sneeze was pretty thought out!!! It's either an effect after or MS blowing some dust when he 'sneezes'). They head to the metallic dome seen on the recorded footage and come across people attached to some device.

The metallic chords holding the others in the chairs suddenly reach out and pull SG-1 into a chair each, knocking them out.

The next scene shows Jack and Teal'c both holding different weapons, not in SG gear. Jack can't figure out where they are but they both remember what just happened. Kawalsky pulls up with some other folk he knew. The man called John tells Jack that it's Colonel and reminds him he's a Captain. Jack remembers that the Colonel dies on this mission and it happened in East Germany in 1982. Jack thinks he's dreaming or halucinating so the Colonel punches him. Jack pulls of Teal'c's cap to reveal no symbol of Aphophis and a full head of hair.

Jack ponders that they've been pulled into a time machine and they are both reliving his past. The mission begins and Jack joins in, remembering past mistakes. However, the Colonel dies in his arms anyway. Jack and Teal'c fall back but suddenly the entire scene begins again.

We then see Sam and Daniel's side of things, both dressed in different clothing. Daniel is wearing a very comfy/seventies looking sweater and Sam looks great in her outfit!!!! Daniel recognizes it as the New York Museum of Art. He goes to an exhibition being set up where a coverstone is being lowered into place with a man and a woman supervising underneath it. Daniel reveals that they are his parents. The structure collapses as Daniel watches in horror.

Back to Jack and Teal'c who are doing round two. Just as Jack suggests something that would change the outcome, many black robed people appear. The assault begins and the Colonel dies again, in almost the same time and place.

Jack then threatens the Colonel the next time it all begins again and the Keeper introduces himself and tells Jack to stop arguing and proceed with the mission. The Keeper tells Jack that it's what it's what he's always wished for. Jack reveals that it was the worst blown mission that he's participated in and the Keeper tells him that it was one mission he's always wanted to change. Jack refuses to play the game and stays with his back turned as he listens to gunfire in the distance.

Sam is trying to comfort Daniel over the witnessing of his parents death. Sam beings to theorize what has happened and she doesn't think it's a time travel device as there's no youngDaniel also witnessing the accident and she thinks it's just a piece of advanced technology. Daniel makes an attempt to get his parents out of there, and they call him Danny. Daniel tells them he hurt himself, and broke his leg, which his mother tells him that he's not hurt that badly as he's still walking. The structure collapses again. Sam points out the black robed audience and tells him it's probably a simulation of a memory, the strongest one he remembers. Daniel reveals that he's spent a long time contemplating if he could have done anything to change the outcome and the Keeper morphs from one of the bystanders. After another collapse Daniel refuses to play and walks away from the soon to be accident scene.

The Keeper plays with a device and brings Jack and Teal'c into Daniel's reality. Sam explains her theory to Jack. Sam wants to know how it works and Jack demands to be let go but the Keeper explains he can't. The Keeper tells them that Teal'c and Sam have a block on their minds, hence they didn't get their own reality. Teal'c because of the symbiote, and Teal'c guesses that Jolinar may be the reason for Sam's block.

The Keeper tells them that the outside world is uninhabitable and was destroyed by a chemical attack, they destroyed their own planet. Sam tells them that their planet is fine, beautiful and habitable. The Keeper becomes upset and Jack surmises that the Keeper is keeping it from the other residents. When Jack begins to yell the truth to the residents, the Keeper removes the residents from the reality. Daniel points out that if they stay in the realities they will have to interract with the residents and the Keeper abruptly releases them.

Back at the SGC Daniel proposes that they head back to the planet to rescue the residents but Janet points out that they can't remove the people because the machines could be keeping them alive. Hammond wants SG-1 to go back for more information and SG-1 balks. Hammond is really pushy towards SG-1 and convincing them to stay, telling Jack he could see his son. Jack tells Hammond he's not the real Hammond, Sam catches on quickly. When Hammond slips and calls the captives residents, the rest of SG-1 realise that Jack is telling the truth. Hammond orders them to isolation.

One of the guards in their room is Kawalsky who tries to convince them all that it really isn't a bad thing to be in a reality they could imagine, or one they would like to relive. Jack asks Kawalsky who he really is and then attacks him, SG-1 escaping.

The residents meet them in the hallway and SG-1 explain to them what their planet looks like. Jack leads them all to the fake gateroom where Hammond shuts down the gate and then morphs into the Keeper with SG-1 hot on his heels. They come across themselves sitting motionless in the devices and then they awaken.

They catch the Keeper who explains that his people damaged their planet and he doesn't want to let them out as they'll ruin their world again. We see the residents outside enjoying the garden and SG-1 heads home as the Keeper freaks out on the residents who are happliy picking flowers.

Implications for Sam and Jack: Overall, nothing I can see really. Anyone else?

I find this episode to be more of a Jack/Teal'c and Sam/Daniel friendship episode and taking an episode to explain Daniel's loss and Jack's past. I think this is the first time we see any evidence that Jolinar has changed something in Sam's body (I haven't watched Prisoners yet... was there anything in there?) as both her and Teal'c have a block on their minds.

While it's interesting to see Jack as a Captain and get an idea of his background, Daniel's memory/reality is more life changing. We see where he got his passion for history and his father is a Dr too. Is this the only time in the series where Daniel refers to his parents? His memory is quite clear but I wouldn't be able to guess his age. I will say he's probably older than 6 but not over 12 or so by the way his parents address and talk to him.

While TPTB explain why they don't go into Sam's background and allude to Jolinar as the cause, I can't help but wonder why they didn't use her memory. I like seeing Daniel's memory but it would've been good to see some of Sam's background as at this point we still don't know that much about her. What would her memory have been? It is hinted that it's the strongest moment or the moment they want to change most and it fits with Daniel's memory. Would Sam's have been her mothers death? Why wasn't Jack's strongest memory or thing he wanted to change the most have been his son's death? Was it perhaps just a decision by TPTB so as not to focus the entire episode on death? It just doesn't seem to fit with what's written in the episode.

For strongest memories, Daniel's fits. Jack's could have been his son's death, Sam's her mothers death and what about Teal'c had he had his own reality? His fathers death?

The lead resident has been in either SG-1 or SGA???? I recognize her face.

She's the ambassador or one of the government leaders on Jonas Quinn's world.

[gater62]

I'm about 1/2 way, but I want to make a few comments. So far I see nothing that puts forward the ship, but there is some interesting placement shots at the beginning where they are looking at the MALP pics. Also when they are entering the dome, Jack and Sam enter together. Doesn't Teal'c take point or at least goes with Jack in investigating possible dangerous situations.

When Jack first relives the failed mission, it was strange to me that John the Colonel is going to let Jack think about going on the mission. It was interesting that Jack was the one who said let's go, or whatever to that effect. Though he was a captain in the scenario, he essentially took charge. (and doesn't John look young for a colonel?).

How weird the gamekeeper would think they would enjoy reliving some of the most painful memories of their lives! Ok, back to viewing.

[gater62]

Ok, round 2. Did anyone else notice the inordinate amount of time Jack spent licking his lips? There mustn't have been any humidity except we kept seeing the breath of the team when they were outdoors.

The gamekeeper did bring up that Jack could see Charlie again(through fake Hammond). Very interesting that the gamekeeper would try to get to Sam by appealing to her feminine nature. It is apparent the gamekeeper cannot read Sam, because he would know she is not a vain creature-the idea of never aging didn't quite seem to appeal to her. If there was any interest on her part to his offer, I think it would have been due to how the technology worked.

When they were chasing the gamekeeper through the halls of the SGC, why did Jack yell, "Daniel, with me!" Was that an implicit order for Teal'c to go off in a different direction? Does this show the connection between the team that they can read each other that well? Hmmmm....

[VSS]

Daniel points out there's also flowers and sneezes promptly (Daniel's sneeze was pretty thought out!!! It's either an effect after or MS blowing some dust when he 'sneezes').

I noticed that, too. Perhaps they gave him something like dust to blow when he sneezed? Also, he's drinking coffee early in the episode, so here we are in the second season and he still hasn't kicked the habit!

Jack pulls of Teal'c's cap to reveal no symbol of Aphophis and a full head of hair.

I thought Teal'c looked very attractive in this episode, it didn't have anything to do with lacking the symbol, though. He didn't look as stern as usual- his face was more relaxed.

Hammond is really pushy towards SG-1 and convincing them to stay, telling Jack he could see his son.

That's the tell, right there. The real Hammond would never bring up Charlie, not after everything Jack has been through to try to put it behind him.

We see the residents outside enjoying the garden and SG-1 heads home as the Keeper freaks out on the residents who are happliy picking flowers.

The second shot of them picking the red and blue flowers bugs me. They're obviously fake plastic flowers just stuck in the ground. Not that I'd expect them to pick the real ones (is that Butchart Gardens?) but even I could have done a better job with the fake ones.

While it's interesting to see Jack as a Captain and get an idea of his background, Daniel's memory/reality is more life changing. We see where he got his passion for history and his father is a Dr too.

I always though his mother had a PhD, too. But I don't know why.

I like seeing Daniel's memory but it would've been good to see some of Sam's background as at this point we still don't know that much about her.

I agree- on the other hand they knew they'd soon be filming Secrets.

It is hinted that it's the strongest moment or the moment they want to change most and it fits with Daniel's memory. Would Sam's have been her mothers death? Why wasn't Jack's strongest memory or thing he wanted to change the most have been his son's death? Was it perhaps just a decision by TPTB so as not to focus the entire episode on death? It just doesn't seem to fit with what's written in the episode.

I think that the Gamekeeper pointed out the things that they could do something about. Certainly, trying to fix that op that went bad has a lot more permutations than keeping Charlie from shooting himself. Jack could have simply forcibly picked up Charlie and the whole thing would have ended. So, for the residents, the different ways that Jack would have tried to solve the problem would have been more interesting. Also, it's possible that Jack himself didn't think there was anything he could have done about Charlie- we don't really know how it happened. Charlie was pretty old- for all we know he was mad at Jack for not showing him the weapon, found the key and got into it deliberately. It's not like he was four or five at the time.

Would the team have had a different reaction if the Gamekeeper had let them succeed? As Sam said, they could experience anything they could imagine? What if he'd clued in on their stubbornness sooner and let Daniel, at least, save his parents? He knew Jack had figured it out and that Sam and Daniel were close to it.

She's the ambassador or one of the government leaders on Jonas Quinn's world.

I think you have both a photographic memory and an encyclopedic knowledge of SG-1! You always know the details.

Ok, round 2. Did anyone else notice the inordinate amount of time Jack spent licking his lips? There mustn't have been any humidity except we kept seeing the breath of the team when they were outdoors.

Are you spending too much time on the thunk thread, Amy?

Very interesting that the gamekeeper would try to get to Sam by appealing to her feminine nature. It is apparent the gamekeeper cannot read Sam, because he would know she is not a vain creature-the idea of never aging didn't quite seem to appeal to her. If there was any interest on her part to his offer, I think it would have been due to how the technology worked.

Oh, I'm glad someone besides me noticed that, too. I thought it was weird that Kawalsky would say that- but as you point out, it's not Kawalsky at all.

A couple of things I noticed- Sam was really pretty in that outfit- but When I was little I actually had Daniel's shirt thingie- we'd all get them five sizes too big and they shrank. A lot!

Also, RDA and MS did a great job with their acting. Man, I really felt for Jack and Daniel. Also, seeing Jack out on one of his special forces missions was interesting. It serves to remind us how tough he really is. I noticed how they had duct tape on their rifle shoulder straps, presumably to keep the slide adjustments from coming loose or catching on things- I love that level of detail If Coela Bellatore is around maybe he could tell us how realistic those scenes were?

[majorsal]

This is a Ship thread after all. It's a funny thing, but people who fall in love often get married and have kids. I don't know why we wouldn't want to talk about that, nor do I understand why you would consider that to be degrading.

i often want to say this to anti ship types, who complain that this show isn't a soap opera and it's supposed to be about the team and their travels, etc. well, the team is made up of PEOPLE, and people love and fall in love and want to pursue those feelings of love/falling in love. it's a normal mental and physical reaction, including the ppl that are complaining about it being a soap opera.