Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[gater62]

I think it's interesting that when Sam is in the elevator, Jack calls her Captain Carter--with her rank. I think there is burgeoning friendship, but still they don't know each other too well? Is that why it's always with the rank? That is until he calls her Sam. When she finally makes it down to Cassie again, Jack is yelling Captain Carter, but then his voice gets all soft, gentle and he calls her Sam trying to get her attention. She is setting herself up to die with Cassie, and there is nothing he can do about it. That last Sam just about killed me.

There was a little catch in Sam's voice when she said that she wouldn't be surprised if Dr. Fraiser keeps Cassandra for herself. I think this is where we get an inkling of how much Sam really would have loved to adopt Cassie if she could.

[Aveo_amacus]

I think it's interesting that when Sam is in the elevator, Jack calls her Captain Carter--with her rank. I think there is burgeoning friendship, but still they don't know each other too well? Is that why it's always with the rank? That is until he calls her Sam. When she finally makes it down to Cassie again, Jack is yelling Captain Carter, but then his voice gets all soft, gentle and he calls her Sam trying to get her attention. She is setting herself up to die with Cassie, and there is nothing he can do about it. That last Sam just about killed me.

There was a little catch in Sam's voice when she said that she wouldn't be surprised if Dr. Fraiser keeps Cassandra for herself. I think this is where we get an inkling of how much Sam really would have loved to adopt Cassie if she could.

yeah we don't know much about Sam's background at this point, but considering her work and the fact it's just her you can see why she can't take her. But I'm sure Sam feels guilty

[josiane]

Great points on Singularity everyone I particularly love that first scene, with it being Daniel and not Sam that's surprised to find Jack knows about astronomy. If you think about it, those lines could easily have been given the other way around, and if anything that would have been more logical, since we know already that Jack and Daniel have a relationship off-base, but we don't know of anything like that with Sam and Jack. So I think the fact that it's Sam that is not surprised is significant - it's another way of showing the growing understanding between them that contributes so much to the development of the ship. She's seen right through the dumb Colonel act, which just goes to show that she is humouring him to a large extent later on when he does it, and I kind of think too that he knows she does, but does it anyway because it kind of becomes their 'thing', a way for them to get a bit of them-time, almost. I'm thinking not just of the apple thing in Matter of Time, but also particularly of the telescope play at the beginning of Forsaken - Sam knows perfectly well that astronomy is one of Jack's hobbies, so for him to be pretending he doesn't know that he wouldn't be able to see anything during the daytime is patently absurd, and both he and Sam know it. But he does it anyway to make her smile.

[VSS]

A little fun nugget- I looked up the name Douglas McClearen (it was so obvious the way they panned over the name of the observatory) and it turns out he's a props guy- I'm sure he designed the sign... Isn't it cool how fast the SGC set up the observatory- so we know the other teams are really working hard and so are the scientists.

Teal'c/Cassie Janet and Jack...spoilered...

Spoiler:

I find it funny that Cassie immediately trusts Teal’c and put her hand in his big one. This is so because she has just seen everyone she knows die after some new strangers came on the planet. Now some other strangers come that look a lot like the other ones(that could have caused the death of everyone around her) and she trusts them again. I think a child should be traumatized and wouldn’t trust anyone. Certainly not people that look like the possible killers of her people.

Spoiler:

I think she thinks we didn't do it. They had the legend of the curse from the eclipse so she'd have believed that. Plus, in the end, I'm thinking the whole plague was just a set up from Niirti to get us to take her home.

I find it funny that even though Sam is a warrior/ Captain she immediately bonds with Cassie. I think she should know better and keep detached.

Me, too. She bonds way too fast with this little girl and the scene in the elevator after Sam leaves her is just over the top.

I am curious how Sam got old those bears and child stuff inside the base that quickly. It is cute to see though that they’ve made the room a bit better looking for Cassie so she can get comfortable.

I think Daniel went out and did all that. He and Sam had some very touching scenes in this episode. I wonder if this is when the Daniel/Sam ship got started? I don't recall him ever being this attentive to her ever again.

Cassie hurts and Janet doesn’t find it. I find it funny that the next second Cassie collapses while Janet says before it that it could be arrhythmia(sp?). Why does Janet after the heart attack does hear the weird sound and before it doesn’t? It can’t grow that quickly, can it?

You know, I really love the medical realism in this episode, starting with Jack breaking out the betadine when he first rolls over the dead person. So I'm guessing that the device activates in that moment right as Janet lets Cassie walk out of the infirmary. Janet should have been all over that low potassium level sooner, though. Still, the low potassium, the naquada, the arrhythmia all fits together and it's a really cool little plot, IMHO.

The decontamination scenes are great, too.

Spoilers for tests on elements inside Cassie and Teal'c Jack on the planet

Spoiler:

Why do Sam and Janet do the test in a secure room in the SGC(sub basement) do they already know what to expect? How can they know it was going to be that bad? Is it because Sam knows some of the elements and knows she can expect that?

Yes. She knows they could blow up. Potassium nitrate, for instance, is in gunpowder. Potassium is used in all kinds of explosives.

Jack gets angry when he notices that Sam goes back down. I do agree with him as military officer he should know better. Even now Sam is ignoring his order. When did Jack lost his command? I think SG1 just listens to him when needed and otherwise not, because even Teal’c and Daniel aren’t leaving. I have to laugh at this a bit. Jack is the leader but on the other hand he isn’t...SG1 just does what they think is right and listen to Jack most of the time, but not when they think his order isn't the correct one...

Yes, that's true- remember the line "Doesn't it say Colonel on my uniform?"
That was way back in CotG, wasn't it?

Now Sam just “knows” about Cassie. It’s really good to see them together and it makes me think that Sam should have taken her or that we at least should have seen Cassie more often in the show!

That "just knows" bit is the only thing that pulls Sam's behavior out of a tailspin for me. To think she'd die with a little alien girl she barely knows just because she promised never to leave her is just unbelievable. But what Sam knows is the fact that the girl has been improving- Sam put the science together and got a clue. Thank God. If it was a mother's intuition I'd be unhappy.

Then Sam and Jack share a “look”. It’s really cute to see that certainly considering that someone made a picture during that moment and Sam takes that picture 10 years later with her to Atlantis!

Yeah. What about that picture? Why that one? I've never understood that.
But the look is cute- it's Sam seeing Jack's softer side, buying a dog for Cassie without even asking anyone about it or if she'd be able to keep it.

I love how at the beginning Sam is not even phased when Jack uses astronomical terms correctly unlike Daniel. She knows that he is much smarter than he lets on. (that didn't come out right--with his grasp of strategy, the Colonel has to be intelligent, but Carter is not surprised when his intelligence goes beyond the military aspect) What I also caught this time was the fact that she knows he has a telescope on the roof of his house. Either she's been there or they have talked as friends on their love for astronomy! Squee! The building of Jack/Sam friendship.

I love this little scene, too. I get the feeling she and Daniel must have been there together- maybe a little stargazing party, because she knows that Daniel knows the telescope is on the roof.

Ooohh this makes me think of the beginning of A Matter of Time when Jack has Sam explain the wormhole. I'm beginning to think Jack really just wants a little "private" technobabble from Carter. After all, we hear later in Moebius he thinks it's hot!

Oh my goodness. I always thought he wanted to hear about the wormhole just to have a private audience for her techno talk- when you put it like that, it's really obvious.

I do like how Jack takes Sam's request to have someone stay behind seriously. He doesn't dismiss her idea even in sight of the tragedy of the planet.

Yes, that was a great moment. He would have said, "Oh to hell with it", but he's listening to her.
[/QUOTE]

I think it's interesting that when Sam is in the elevator, Jack calls her Captain Carter--with her rank. I think there is burgeoning friendship, but still they don't know each other too well? Is that why it's always with the rank? That is until he calls her Sam. When she finally makes it down to Cassie again, Jack is yelling Captain Carter, but then his voice gets all soft, gentle and he calls her Sam trying to get her attention. She is setting herself up to die with Cassie, and there is nothing he can do about it. That last Sam just about killed me.

I am convinced that Jack uses his rank and the title thing to keep his emotional distance from Sam. It's very clearly illustrated here, as you point out. Kawalsky didn't have to call him "Sir," and later on I think he called Hammond, "George" or "Hammond" but with her it's "Carter". After D&C he never calls her Sam again, except (literally) in her dreams.

[KatG]

Me, too. She bonds way too fast with this little girl and the scene in the elevator after Sam leaves her is just over the top.

I think Sam was blindsided by her feelings for Cassie. Remember she told Daniel that she's not supposed to get attached, and when Daniel ask why, she says "I forget you're not military. The thing is, sometimes our hearts don't listen to our heads. What we know we should do, and what we actually do aren't always one and the same. Otherwise, Sam and Jack would never have been.

As for the scene in the elevator, I thought it was amazing, some of the best acting I've ever seen and the point where I realized that AT could act her socks off.

This episode for me, is still not romance shippy. I take the fact that Sam mentions the telescope on Jack's roof to Daniel as somethng she knows from team nights, because she knows Daniel knows about it too. It does however show that Sam does see through the facade that Jack throws up and for the most part enjoys it and even humors him.

The fact that Jack trusted her to take Cassie down, in spite of her feelings, also shows that he respects her and trust her to do the right thing. And she did, given that the circumstance changed, it was the right decision, one that I'm sure Jack would have made himself. Which again shows that they understand each other very well by this point.

[VSS]

I think Sam was blindsided by her feelings for Cassie. Remember she told Daniel that she's not supposed to get attached, and when Daniel ask why, she says "I forget you're not military. The thing is, sometimes our hearts don't listen to our heads. What we know we should do, and what we actually do aren't always one and the same. Otherwise, Sam and Jack would never have been.

As for the scene in the elevator, I thought it was amazing, some of the best acting I've ever seen and the point where I realized that AT could act her socks off.

I have no problem whatsoever with Sam getting attached to Cassie. However, I think it was too much. And while AT's acting in the elevator scene was excellent, it was Sam's reaction that was over the top. Sam acted as if it were perhaps her own sister down in that silo, not a little girl she'd maybe met a couple of days earlier. I think her attachment to Cassie was out of proportion to the situation and perhaps even unprofessional. She said she loved Cassie. In only two days? The ending didn't fit, either, because she mentions finding a family for Cassie, which sounds more realistic but less like the woman who was overly attached just in the scene before. I think that Sam does have a tendency to get teary, and that doesn't mean she's not tough- she is. I just think they were playing the girl card again in this episode.

I actually think that her reaction in this episode stands in contrast to her relationship with Jack. Otherwise, she wouldn't have suggested they leave it in the room in D&C, she'd have let her emotions run away with her like they did in this ep.

The fact that Jack trusted her to take Cassie down, in spite of her feelings, also shows that he respects her and trust her to do the right thing. And she did, given that the circumstance changed, it was the right decision, one that I'm sure Jack would have made himself. Which again shows that they understand each other very well by this point.

That's true. It's not unlike what she and Daniel did in Bloodlines when they ignored Jacks order to guard the gate. There was a rational change in plans- not disregarding orders. And since that was the case, Jack's confidence was not misplaced. I don't see him as the kind of CO who expects people to follow orders just because he says so.

[Toomi]

Fave Quote: I don't remember the exact quote but when Jack tells Teal'c to look less intimidating.

Fave Scene: The scene at the end at the park.

I love the opening sequence. I always laugh when Jack points out the scientific term and Daniel keeps talking, then stops and realises what Jack says. As for why Sam isn't suprised, I'm guessing it's from offworld missions. There's watches all night on various planets and a whole array of stars to be viewed. I'm sure at some point a conversation drifted to constellations and went from there.

When they all have the masks on, and Teal'c doesn't, someone mentionned why he would be allowed back as he could be carrying the contagien/virus. Couldn't the others? They breathed the air as well, and their clothes would have become contaminated. Perhaps when they decontaminate the rest of SG-1, he was decontaminated too.

Jack doesn't fight Janet when she says he's first. We've seen him in the infirmary in Fire and Water and this episode? (other than Broca Divide?) So far we haven't seen him be angry and combative towards being in the infirmary or any medical personel? Perhaps that was something that was written in over time?

When Cassie takes Teal'c's hand, he's a pretty big scary guy for a little kid. But she's been alone for who knows how long, watching everyone around her die. Perhaps seeing anyone who's alive is a huge relief to her.

When Cassie comes and grabs Sam's arm, Sam shoots a look at Jack. She looks bewildered, as though asking for his help. We know she has a niece and nephew (CL...I think...) but other than that how much does she spend with kids?

We find out in a later episode that Sam's mom died when Sam was fairly young. Sam still had a father in her life, and a brother, but she recognizes that Cassie has no one. Perhaps her quick but fairly strong attachment to Cassie has something to do with that. I don't think it's a conscious decision on Sam's part to become so attached to Cassie, just as the situation progresses, Sam perhaps sees some of herself in Cassie and wants to help as much as she can.

I wonder if it's even driving Daniel a bit more to be with Cassie. Again, we find out later that both of Daniel's parents died when he was younger too (any idea how young?) so perhaps that is bringing out the paternal side of Daniel (when he's offering to stay with her). I know that if Jack were there, he'd be playing with Cassie too (as we see at the end) but both Sam and Daniel seem to take on a parental side of things when it comes to Cassie.

When Jack returns after being chased by Goa'uld he suggests an abanndoned nuclear facility as an ideal place to 'put' Cassie. I think at this point, he doesn't have any emotional attachment to the kid, and any he's forming he's shoving deep inside. When he offers to take Cassie I think he's trying to save Sam from having to live for the rest of her life knowing that she took a child to their death.

When Carter is leaving Cassie she's really upset. I can't imagine how it would be to leave a child/anyone alone, having to lie to them telling them that everything is going to be ok, that she'll come back, and knowing that you're leaving them to die alone, terrified.

When Sam goes back, Jack doesn't really try to talk her out of it. I think he recognizes what she's doing and why. Slightly different situation, but had it been Jack's son down there, he would have stayed. While Cassie isn't Sam's child by a long shot, they've become attached to each other.

The end scene is my favourite of the episode. It's a nice team moment with Cassie, Jack enforcing his dog policy for kids. There's a nice beat when Sam raises an eyebrow at Jack when Cassie repeats the dog rule.

I liked this episode. It's a nice team episode, showing a different side to Jack, Sam and Daniel. We get to see a more scientific side of Jack, and a paternal side of Daniel and Sam.

Implications for Sam and Jack: The end of the episode shows the team together in a park. I don't think it was necessary for all of them to be there, but they were. To me it shows that as a team they're all getting more comfortable with each other, and the fact that Sam knows Jack has a telescope on his roof (and teasing him about looking at the neighbours) shows that there's been some conversations either off world or on, or Sam's seen the telescope. The fact that Daniel doesn't know is either he wasn't listening when these conversations happened, or he wasn't around. When Sam takes Cassie down the elevator, Jack doesn't question it. He could've wrestled Cassie out of Sam's arms and done it himself but he recognizes her need/want to do it herself. I think he would've respected Sam more after this...

[Toomi]

I am curious how Sam got old those bears and child stuff inside the base that quickly. It is cute to see though that they’ve made the room a bit better looking for Cassie so she can get comfortable.

The drawing Cassie makes is heartbreaking. It shows that she has seen all her people die. That’s so hard to see for a child, I don’t think you can understand on that age why they all die and she didn’t. It’s good that Sam draws herself with Cassie to let her know she isn’t alone anymore.

Somewhere in my mind I always wonder if Hammond had anything to do with the items in Cassies room. We know he has 2 granddaughters and I'm assuming he lives close by? (I'm just thinking of the episode where he retires and Jack visits him?) Could he have asked his wife to pick some things up? I think it was probably Daniel or someone else on the base with kids, but thinking it was Hammond makes me grin.

One thing I noticed about the drawing, which was a nice touch by the art department, is that there's the large 'sun' in the center, but several other 'orbs' depicted in the sky. Perhaps Cassie's planet has more than one sun or several moons? Whatever it is, it's a nice touch as I can't think of many Earth kids that would draw more than one sun in a picture.

Then Sam and Jack share a “look”. It’s really cute to see that certainly considering that someone made a picture during that moment and Sam takes that picture 10 years later with her to Atlantis!
Another cute scene when Sam and Cassie go to the swings. It’s good to see that. On the other hand I am missing Janet during this scene, certainly if she is going to get Cassie. I think she should have been there.

Really? I never noticed that! I remember the 'fishing' picture taken from the middle of the lake I'll have to go back and rewatch Atlantis.

[hedwig]

Somewhere in my mind I always wonder if Hammond had anything to do with the items in Cassies room. We know he has 2 granddaughters and I'm assuming he lives close by? (I'm just thinking of the episode where he retires and Jack visits him?) Could he have asked his wife to pick some things up? I think it was probably Daniel or someone else on the base with kids, but thinking it was Hammond makes me grin.

One thing I noticed about the drawing, which was a nice touch by the art department, is that there's the large 'sun' in the center, but several other 'orbs' depicted in the sky. Perhaps Cassie's planet has more than one sun or several moons? Whatever it is, it's a nice touch as I can't think of many Earth kids that would draw more than one sun in a picture.



Really? I never noticed that! I remember the 'fishing' picture taken from the middle of the lake I'll have to go back and rewatch Atlantis.

I think if Hammond had anything to do with getting those things for Cassie, he might have done it himself or asked his daughter to. He's a widower throughout the series, even though he was still wearing his wedding ring. (Jack says in "Tin Man" , S.1, that Hammond's wife died 4 years previously from cancer.) He also might have borrowed some things from his granddaughters or asked them if they'd mind sharing them with a little girl he knew about that didn't have anything. Other than that, I can see people at the SGC donating some things for Cassie. Or Daniel (as you suggest), since Cassie didn't want to let Sam out of her sight.

The "fishing picture" is the same one that's shown at the end of Threads or Moebius, and had to have been taken by somebody out on the lake or even across the lake with a really long lens. That lake is more like a pond from what I've seen of pictures from the real place and really isn't that far across it to the other side.

[Toomi]

Ooohh this makes me think of the beginning of A Matter of Time when Jack has Sam explain the wormhole. I'm beginning to think Jack really just wants a little "private" technobabble from Carter. After all, we hear later in Moebius he thinks it's hot!

Ohhhhh.... good point!!! I wonder if it's the technobabble that he finds hot or if it's the fact that Sam becomes very animated when discussing something she's interested in?

The "fishing picture" is the same one that's shown at the end of Threads or Moebius, and had to have been taken by somebody out on the lake or even across the lake with a really long lens. That lake is more like a pond from what I've seen of pictures from the real place and really isn't that far across it to the other side.

I remember being shocked at how tiny the lake was. Just the way it was shot in the episode I thought it was much bigger. Someone said earlier it there was a picture taken from this episode and used in Atlantis as one of Sam's pictures. Does anyone have a cap of the Atlantis shot? Or know which eps it appears in? I just can't for the life of me remember it. I only remember the 'fishing' one...

[hedwig]

Ohhhhh.... good point!!! I wonder if it's the technobabble that he finds hot or if it's the fact that Sam becomes very animated when discussing something she's interested in?




I remember being shocked at how tiny the lake was. Just the way it was shot in the episode I thought it was much bigger. Someone said earlier it there was a picture taken from this episode and used in Atlantis as one of Sam's pictures. Does anyone have a cap of the Atlantis shot? Or know which eps it appears in? I just can't for the life of me remember it. I only remember the 'fishing' one...

It could be seen in a few episodes when Sam's office is shown. She had several pictures on a shelf behind her desk (individual ones of Cassie, Jacob, Daniel, and Teal'c), the one with her and Jack fishing being one of them. I don't recall specific episodes, but if you look carefully (and quickly) when she's seated at her desk - or even standing in front of it - you can sometimes see the pictures behind her.

[VSS]

I remember being shocked at how tiny the lake was. Just the way it was shot in the episode I thought it was much bigger. Someone said earlier it there was a picture taken from this episode and used in Atlantis as one of Sam's pictures. Does anyone have a cap of the Atlantis shot? Or know which eps it appears in? I just can't for the life of me remember it. I only remember the 'fishing' one...

It's from Reunion when Sam moves all of her stuff to Atlantis. It's not in her office, it's in her private quarters.
I don't have a cap but I'm sure someone around here does. There's a clear shot of that 8x10 of Jack sitting in a plastic shipping bin when she's moving all her stuff into her room and McKay is there babbling about not having a "thing" between them anymore. If he'd shut up for ten seconds and looked down he could have saved himself the embarrassment.

[dipsofjazz]

You can see the picture here.

[VSS]

You can see the picture here.

Thanks Bev! I knew someone would find it! So- why this pic? I always like to think there's some deeper meaning, but maybe there's none except it's a picture of her hunky boyfriend.

[hedwig]

It's from Reunion when Sam moves all of her stuff to Atlantis. It's not in her office, it's in her private quarters.
I don't have a cap but I'm sure someone around here does. There's a clear shot of that 8x10 of Jack sitting in a plastic shipping bin when she's moving all her stuff into her room and McKay is there babbling about not having a "thing" between them anymore. If he'd shut up for ten seconds and looked down he could have saved himself the embarrassment.

The "fishing" photo is on the shelf behind her desk (I'll have to go rewatch a few episodes to find out which one(s) - a tough job, I know, but (sigh) I'll just have to go do it). The individual photo of Jack is in her private quarters, and was the one shown amongst her belongings when she was unpacking just after her arrival on Atlantis. The "fishing" picture shows up in one or two later episodes when she's meeting with people in her office.