Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[VSS]

<snip>

All in all I also love how the ship was handled (except the whole Pete thing), and in no way was I suggesting that they should have broken the regs. I wouldn't respect them as much as I do if they had a romance while on SG-1. What I'm saying is that I would find them more believable (and angsty ) if they unintentionally slipped a few times, acted on their feelings in some dire circumstances, maybe comforted each other after Abyss for example, and then made the mutual decision to step back, honouring their duty.
<snip>

Yes, I quite agree with this. I think it's leiasky who has the sig with AT and RDA on the set of Death Knell and there are those shots of the two of them snuggled down there against the rocks- that's the kind of thing that I mean. Anyone know which ones I'm talking about? It's an error on the part of the series to think that just because Sam and Jack didn't touch each other, TPTB were preserving the spirit of the regs. They actually weren't. I think a little struggle over that could have been illuminating and given the characters some depth without breaking the rules more than they already were.

Since when does being an adult mean you have to be involved in a sexual relationship? I really don't see Sam and Jack sleeping around with anyone without it being a serious relationship and until the whole Pete/Kerry thing we didn't see it. I just happen to think that they were both "celibate" especially since they were pretty much committed to each other if only in their own minds. *don't throw things at me*

I don't really disagree with this at all, especially as far as Jack was concerned. I do think that Sam was more prone to making mistakes out of inexperience and wishful thinking. As I said, I'm not really sure and this seems like the most likely thing to me.

And why would anyone throw things at you? The only way anyone here would do that is if you said Pete was the hottest thing going and Sam was crazy to have left him. Even then we'd probably just advise you see a professional. Probably.

[Luvnjoe]

Yes, I quite agree with this. I think it's leiasky who has the sig with AT and RDA on the set of Death Knell and there are those shots of the two of them snuggled down there against the rocks- that's the kind of thing that I mean. Anyone know which ones I'm talking about? It's an error on the part of the series to think that just because Sam and Jack didn't touch each other, TPTB were preserving the spirit of the regs. They actually weren't. I think a little struggle over that could have been illuminating and given the characters some depth without breaking the rules more than they already were.



I don't really disagree with this at all, especially as far as Jack was concerned. I do think that Sam was more prone to making mistakes out of inexperience and wishful thinking. As I said, I'm not really sure and this seems like the most likely thing to me.

And why would anyone throw things at you? The only way anyone here would do that is if you said Pete was the hottest thing going and Sam was crazy to have left him. Even then we'd probably just advise you see a professional. Probably.

You don't think that would have made a very hard situation completely unbearable? Let me rephrase that...I think that would have made it unbearable! That would have been misery, not angst (IMO); you can't unring a bell, as the saying goes, and (for me) it would have been like watching a train wreck after that. A physical relationship changes everything about the rest of the relationship, ESPECIALLY when it's not just sex, which it wouldn't have been for S/J. (Not to mention, I wouldn't have liked the characters near as much.) They couldn't help how they felt (even the president said they had a right to their feelings), but they could (and were expected to) control how they acted upon those feelings...or didn't.

[Petra]

Since when does being an adult mean you have to be involved in a sexual relationship? I really don't see Sam and Jack sleeping around with anyone without it being a serious relationship and until the whole Pete/Kerry thing we didn't see it. I just happen to think that they were both "celibate" especially since they were pretty much committed to each other if only in their own minds. *don't throw things at me*

I'm sorry, did I say that?
Of course being adult =/= sexual relationship. And i very much respect your opinion and have no intention what-so-ever to throw anything at you. It's just..I don't see them staying celibate for 8 years..

I really don't think that during this time either one of them dated anyone seriously or had any relationship. The show tended to show all relationships on-screen, so I take it that if all we were ever shown was Khyntia, Laira and Kerry for Jack and Pete for Sam, that was it relationship-wise. Remember Pete shows up immidiately after Grace, when Sam pretty much decided to try dating someone else, so I think their relationship in Chimera is pretty new, a few weeks at most - post Grace.

However 8 years is a long time, and any sort of committment coud have happened after D&C. It still leaves over 3 years of their "friendship". That's why I tend to agree with VSS that I definitely could see them both doing some (rare) one-night-stands. And is it really such a terrible thing? They are humans, and while they were committed to each other they weren't in a relationship.

[VSS]

You don't think that would have made a very hard situation completely unbearable? Let me rephrase that...I think that would have made it unbearable! That would have been misery, not angst (IMO); you can't unring a bell, as the saying goes, and (for me) it would have been like watching a train wreck after that. A physical relationship changes everything about the rest of the relationship, ESPECIALLY when it's not just sex, which it wouldn't have been for S/J. (Not to mention, I wouldn't have liked the characters near as much.) They couldn't help how they felt (even the president said they had a right to their feelings), but they could (and were expected to) control how they acted upon those feelings...or didn't.

It would have been pretty tough, there's no denying it. But the show never dwelt on any of the difficulties in the character's lives- unless there was something actually in their brains they never spent any time on what went on in their heads. I wouldn't have wanted it to turn into a BSG-style angst-fest with every dark secret on display, but I think they could have done more. Not a lot more, but some.

Edit: And col aga, I really like that list of scenes! I love quantitative ship. A few of those I wouldn't really qualify as romantic, but even so, that only makes your point more clearly- that there wasn't much attention paid to relationships. And looking at that list, I can see where people get the feeling that that SG-1 was lacking in that aspect. Interestingly, I think that Jonas in season 6 got more romantic screen time. Maybe they felt safer giving him more romantic attachments- a little like they did with Vala. Not one of the main 4 characters.

Also, they're 3/3 for sitting by each other now- there's only a 4% chance that it's a purely random seating arrangement to this point.

[Buc252]

Since when does being an adult mean you have to be involved in a sexual relationship? I really don't see Sam and Jack sleeping around with anyone without it being a serious relationship and until the whole Pete/Kerry thing we didn't see it. I just happen to think that they were both "celibate" especially since they were pretty much committed to each other if only in their own minds. *don't throw things at me*

I totally agree with you on all points. So you're not as alone as you might think.

I agree. Though I think maybe they both would have tried to date other people, I couldn't see them having a one night stand. But then again they cared for each other, so I think for a few years at least that they wouldn't have dated anyone...maybe one or two dates (without doing anything guttery) with someone else that we just never saw.

I agree with this, too. As a matter of fact, this is what they *should* have done when Sam was "trying to get a life." Not sleep with this first moron that came along and then get engaged to him, but to try a lot of different guys on single dates.

I'm sorry, did I say that?
Of course being adult =/= sexual relationship. And i very much respect your opinion and have no intention what-so-ever to throw anything at you. It's just..I don't see them staying celibate for 8 years..

I really don't think that during this time either one of them dated anyone seriously or had any relationship. The show tended to show all relationships on-screen, so I take it that if all we were ever shown was Khyntia, Laira and Kerry for Jack and Pete for Sam, that was it relationship-wise. Remember Pete shows up immidiately after Grace, when Sam pretty much decided to try dating someone else, so I think their relationship in Chimera is pretty new, a few weeks at most - post Grace.

However 8 years is a long time, and any sort of committment coud have happened after D&C. It still leaves over 3 years of their "friendship". That's why I tend to agree with VSS that I definitely could see them both doing some (rare) one-night-stands. And is it really such a terrible thing? They are humans, and while they were committed to each other they weren't in a relationship.

I totally disagree - it *is* such a terrible thing. Heroic people, for me at least, don't have sex outside of a committed relationship, and certainly don't do it purely for carnal pleasure. Maybe that's an old-fashioned value, but that's what I feel. If Jack or Sam - or Daniel, Jonas, or Teal'c even - had been shown having one-night stands, I would have lost all respect for them and they no longer would have been the heroic characters they are.

Eight years isn't so long - I've been celibate for 26 years+.

[Toomi]

Since when does being an adult mean you have to be involved in a sexual relationship? I really don't see Sam and Jack sleeping around with anyone without it being a serious relationship and until the whole Pete/Kerry thing we didn't see it. I just happen to think that they were both "celibate" especially since they were pretty much committed to each other if only in their own minds. *don't throw things at me*

Not even to throw chocolate?

I think it's something to do with the thought of an 'adult' relationship. For some reason my mind thinks sexual relationship as soon as I think 'adult' relationship, even though there are many different types of relationships.

I totally agree with you on all points. So you're not as alone as you might think.



I agree with this, too. As a matter of fact, this is what they *should* have done when Sam was "trying to get a life." Not sleep with this first moron that came along and then get engaged to him, but to try a lot of different guys on single dates.



I totally disagree - it *is* such a terrible thing. Heroic people, for me at least, don't have sex outside of a committed relationship, and certainly don't do it purely for carnal pleasure. Maybe that's an old-fashioned value, but that's what I feel. If Jack or Sam - or Daniel, Jonas, or Teal'c even - had been shown having one-night stands, I would have lost all respect for them and they no longer would have been the heroic characters they are.

Eight years isn't so long - I've been celibate for 26 years+.

I wouldn't consider it an 'old fashionned' value. It is a value that was once very common, but due to society changes, unfortunatly that value seemed to be dissapearing, but starting to make a bit of a comeback. *fingers crossed*

I completely agree with you on the bolded part. If say for example, while Sam and Pete were together, Sam jumped in bed with Jack, then went back to Pete. That situation could've changed my opinion of Sam quite a bit. (and thinking on it, Jack too, if he'd known about Sam and Pete being in a relationship). I liked Stargate because of that quality it had. They didn't have every character jumping into the sack with each other, or a different person each week. I did have a few issues with some situations with various characters in specific episodes, but when we get there, I'll mention them. Overall, the show had a 'family' feel, something that if I ever have kids, I wouldn't mind them watching. Given the quality of some shows on TV that is perhaps feeding the current mindset of many of the younger, and maybe some of the older generations, Stargate was something that I won't be embarrassed to show to anyone coming over to my house.

ETA: Bleck! I went over my post and realised I babbled again....

I don't see Sam and Jack having one night stands here and there with other people, especially as time went on. Both of them have feelings for each other, deep feelings that have taken years to mature. It's not just a flash in the pan, and while they both know at this point that they have those feelings for each other, they know they have a task to accomplish, a job to do defending their home planet, and until they both feel that they are in a place where one of them can leave their role on SG-1 or retire, they are not going to act on it. However, just going around and having one night stands would seem that they are not 'committed' to each other, even though they are not actively in a relationship. Just having sex with someone for the sake of it doesn't seem worth the risk of upsetting the other party, making them jealous, or making them do something they may regret later on.

[Padme18]

That was pretty funny. Wouldn't you have liked to have seen that little incident? It reminds me of that planet they gated to after Nemesis. The mind does wander....



Oh, cool! Did they sell the blue dress? I'd have liked a crack at that one.

I saw a museum exhibit of several costumes from Star Wars and BSG, among others. The viper pilot outfit was tiny. It must have been Boomer's. But it was really interesting how well made they all were. I guess they have to be to hold up to the rigors of filming.

The only one I ever had complaints about is that grey suit she wears in the opening scene of 2010. I can see the stitching pull across her back. But, that one I'd really pay money for, since that's my favorite ep.

I know, it does make you wonder.

I would have loved to have seen the exhibit, I know a SW one was done by the Fashion Institute. I have the book on the prequel costumes and they are stunning, and made from the funniest stuff. Padme's wedding dress is partly a vintage tablecloth.


As for BD...

Fave scene: the end where he mentions her never where the "sweet little tank top number" again if she had a scar and the look on her face! It's just pricless how she suddenly stops walking and has this Oh My God he does remeber look.

Fave quote: The "Lucy I'm home!", "I am not Lucy" exchange. And when Janet says Jack should be flattered Sam picked him since primative females would want a mate that would give them the strongest offspring.

I also like how Jack suddenly goes "cave man" and punches Daniel. It shows him defending her, or more so his right to her. The first time I saw this ep I said to myself "Why don't they just stick them in a room together and let them get it on and then chuck the whole thing up to alien viruses?" I thought that would cure them for some bloody reason. It's funny how at 18 I would think that was the fraking cure. My hormones must have been raging that day.

[majorsal]

Edit: And that's one of the reasons why we can be pretty sure Jack and Sam are together now. They haven't shipped her with anyone else since Threads. Though I'm sure they desperately wanted to.

no, they didn't bring in anyone new to ship sam with... they just brought back orlin and martouf and created retrofitted history with them.

i don't believe any of it, though, because it was just the ptb trying to rewrite history to make it 'sexier'. poor sam.

[silly sally]

no, they didn't bring in anyone new to ship sam with... they just brought back orlin and martouf and created retrofitted history with them.

i don't believe any of it, though, because it was just the ptb trying to rewrite history to make it 'sexier'. poor sam.

Amanda said in an interview Coop wanted to ship Sam with Cam but she declined.
There are some who might interpret shippy scenes between Sam and Cam in LITS and AOT or Sam/Teal'c in Unending...

[Bekki]

*pops out of lurkdom*

Hi all!

Amanda said in an interview Coop wanted to ship Sam with Cam but she declined.
There are some who might interpret shippy scenes between Sam and Cam in LITS and AOT or Sam/Teal'c in Unending...

I always find the Sam/Cam angle interesting. (not the ship itself, I mean...the interpretation of the ship...although, if S/J never existed, I mightbe tempted)

For a person who isn't a S/J shipper, I can see why they would think Sam and Cam have a thing going. Sam's cute attitude to Cam in AoT and the end of LitS is similar to her banter with Pete in Chimera. I suppose you could say that the similarities would indicate something there.

But - for anyone who has acknowledged that the S/J ship exists, or even acknowledged that Sam had ever had feelings fro Jack, the whole Sam/Cam thing just can't exist. Why? Because of the way Sam acted throughout the whole first 8 seasons. It is clear that she wouldn't be so...chipper about even thinking of breaking the regs. Sam's 'cuteness' is reserved for her buddies, I think. All the guys she has contact with get a dose of cute, flirt-like Sam. But only Jack gets the grit and the angst. Actually, so does Martouf, to a lesser extent, and that's only because of the whole Jolinar thing

As for Sam/Teal'c, I honestly can't understand anyone's problem with it. I think it's horrible for Sam to be expected to live for 50 years without a soul mate, because Jack's not there. This is Jack! There's no way in the world he would want that for her, and she would know it. Jack would be happy to know that Sam had someone to love for the fifty years that he wasn't there to do it himself, and Teal'c would probably feel the same way. Two very very close people, cut off from the rest of the world for fifty years are supposed to stay away from each other? That would be horrible. Plus - it's our own instincts to find a mate. It's not only comforting that they might turn to each other that way, but it's also natural!

(...hehe...is it obvious that I'm a bit of a Teal'c/Sam <ONLY IN UNENDING!!!> fan?)

[silly sally]

*pops out of lurkdom*

Hi all!



I always find the Sam/Cam angle interesting. (not the ship itself, I mean...the interpretation of the ship...although, if S/J never existed, I mightbe tempted)

For a person who isn't a S/J shipper, I can see why they would think Sam and Cam have a thing going. Sam's cute attitude to Cam in AoT and the end of LitS is similar to her banter with Pete in Chimera. I suppose you could say that the similarities would indicate something there.

But - for anyone who has acknowledged that the S/J ship exists, or even acknowledged that Sam had ever had feelings fro Jack, the whole Sam/Cam thing just can't exist. Why? Because of the way Sam acted throughout the whole first 8 seasons. It is clear that she wouldn't be so...chipper about even thinking of breaking the regs. Sam's 'cuteness' is reserved for her buddies, I think. All the guys she has contact with get a dose of cute, flirt-like Sam. But only Jack gets the grit and the angst. Actually, so does Martouf, to a lesser extent, and that's only because of the whole Jolinar thing

As for Sam/Teal'c, I honestly can't understand anyone's problem with it. I think it's horrible for Sam to be expected to live for 50 years without a soul mate, because Jack's not there. This is Jack! There's no way in the world he would want that for her, and she would know it. Jack would be happy to know that Sam had someone to love for the fifty years that he wasn't there to do it himself, and Teal'c would probably feel the same way. Two very very close people, cut off from the rest of the world for fifty years are supposed to stay away from each other? That would be horrible. Plus - it's our own instincts to find a mate. It's not only comforting that they might turn to each other that way, but it's also natural!

(...hehe...is it obvious that I'm a bit of a Teal'c/Sam <ONLY IN UNENDING!!!> fan?)

I'm sorry, but I can't accept Sam/Teal'c in Unending if Sam got together with Jack post Threads, and not because of Sam. Don't hate me, but I've always felt Sam was the least 'loyal' of the two, so if Sam and Jack were together before "Unending" I just can't see Teal'c betraying Jack's trust even if Sam would shamelessly throw herself at him. However if Sam and Jack were not together before "Unending" I can't find a single reason why Teal'c wouldn't want to try to get together with her after he loved her for 50 years...

[Petra]

I totally disagree - it *is* such a terrible thing. Heroic people, for me at least, don't have sex outside of a committed relationship, and certainly don't do it purely for carnal pleasure. Maybe that's an old-fashioned value, but that's what I feel. If Jack or Sam - or Daniel, Jonas, or Teal'c even - had been shown having one-night stands, I would have lost all respect for them and they no longer would have been the heroic characters they are.

Eight years isn't so long - I've been celibate for 26 years+.

I guess we can agree to disagree then?
However I want to stress once more that I do not mean "sleeping around" - why people assume that? What I said is I could see them caving under pressure every once in a while, when things got to be too much and they craved, shall we say, "human contact" and knew the other one couldn't help them in this way. That's all.

And this is a little OT, but as for the bolded part: Teal'c did have a one night stand, with Krista in season 8. And he was presumably in a relationship with Ishta at the time,so he practically cheated on her..Actually, come to think about it, he also cheated on his wife in "Crossroads" with Shan'ouc. If it happened just this once I would have chalked it up to the writers' mistake (they forgot his wife or something), but since it happened twice in 2 different relationships, I guess we can say that Teal'c isn't really very loyal to his women..

[Bekki]

I'm sorry, but I can't accept Sam/Teal'c in Unending if Sam got together with Jack post Threads, and not because of Sam. Don't hate me, but I've always felt Sam was the least 'loyal' of the two, so if Sam and Jack were together before "Unending" I just can't see Teal'c betraying Jack's trust even if Sam would shamelessly throw herself at him. However if Sam and Jack were not together before "Unending" I can't find a single reason why Teal'c wouldn't want to try to get together with her after he loved her for 50 years...

Ah, good point. It would make sense that, regardless of how he might of felt, Teal'c could very well have not acted. He is eternally loyal to his comrades. It makes the whole thing quite sad, doesn't it? It's kinda like S/J...always slaves to their loyalty and duty

...maybe that's why I have a soft spot for it

[VSS]

I know, it does make you wonder.

I would have loved to have seen the exhibit, I know a SW one was done by the Fashion Institute. I have the book on the prequel costumes and they are stunning, and made from the funniest stuff. Padme's wedding dress is partly a vintage tablecloth.

Spoiler:

Well, they don't make lace (or tablecloths) like they used to! I've inherited a lot of it and had to search high and low- and pay a lot of money- to find anything new that even came close to matching the quality. But, the costumes I saw were not from the prequels, sadly. There was a great explanation of Obi-wan's robe- why they deliberately made it look very monk-like, etc. Also, Luke's orange flightsuit, Han's ensemble, etc. It was very cool. Who knew there was that much psychology in the wardrobe department?

<snip>

The first time I saw this ep I said to myself "Why don't they just stick them in a room together and let them get it on and then chuck the whole thing up to alien viruses?" I thought that would cure them for some bloody reason. It's funny how at 18 I would think that was the fraking cure. My hormones must have been raging that day.

Yeah, that wouldn't have been a cure, it would have been like pouring gasoline on a fire!

no, they didn't bring in anyone new to ship sam with... they just brought back orlin and martouf and created retrofitted history with them.

i don't believe any of it, though, because it was just the ptb trying to rewrite history to make it 'sexier'. poor sam.

Yup.

*pops out of lurkdom*
But - for anyone who has acknowledged that the S/J ship exists, or even acknowledged that Sam had ever had feelings fro Jack, the whole Sam/Cam thing just can't exist. Why? Because of the way Sam acted throughout the whole first 8 seasons. It is clear that she wouldn't be so...chipper about even thinking of breaking the regs. Sam's 'cuteness' is reserved for her buddies, I think. All the guys she has contact with get a dose of cute, flirt-like Sam. But only Jack gets the grit and the angst. Actually, so does Martouf, to a lesser extent, and that's only because of the whole Jolinar thing

I was thinking the exact same thing last night while mulling over what Sally and SillySally said. Furthermore, Sam would never have been that comfortable with any kind of romance on base- she even got jumpy when Pete called and especially when he kissed her at work. And that didn't even have to do with the regs, it's just professionalism.

I'm sorry, but I can't accept Sam/Teal'c in Unending if Sam got together with Jack post Threads, and not because of Sam. Don't hate me, but I've always felt Sam was the least 'loyal' of the two, so if Sam and Jack were together before "Unending" I just can't see Teal'c betraying Jack's trust even if Sam would shamelessly throw herself at him. However if Sam and Jack were not together before "Unending" I can't find a single reason why Teal'c wouldn't want to try to get together with her after he loved her for 50 years...

Well then, that's more indirect proof that S/J are together, isn't it? That alone would be worth thinking Teal'c and Sam got together in Unending. Although they didn't. But hey, it's a silver lining, just in case.

Not to pick on you, SillySally, but on all of us fans in general, that entire quote just illustrates how a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. The whole Teal'c/Sam ship is a figment of the actors' imaginations, which they are entitled to have. I would bet some of the impression about Sam's relative lack of loyalty could be traced to actor comments as well- and the infamous Martouf almost-kiss scene, of course. It's hard to separate out fanfic, outtakes and behind-the-scenes comments from the impression one gets from watching the actual show. But that's what separates fandom from the general viewership- and if you ignore those things like the casual viewer does, then all you're going to see is friendship.

On the other hand, if you do care about those kinds of comments, then you have to take into account that JM squashed the whole concept of Teal'c and Sam as well as Cam and Sam, and TPTB are the ones in charge of the story.

Either way, the end result is that the cam/sam and teal'c sam "ship" scenes were not intended that way and aren't anything even close to being canon. And if we were casual viewers we'd be saying, "Oh, how nice, they're such good friends," instead of endlessly debating this particular issue.

[Petra]

It would have been pretty tough, there's no denying it. But the show never dwelt on any of the difficulties in the character's lives- unless there was something actually in their brains they never spent any time on what went on in their heads. I wouldn't have wanted it to turn into a BSG-style angst-fest with every dark secret on display, but I think they could have done more. Not a lot more, but some.

Agreed.

Edit: And col aga, I really like that list of scenes! I love quantitative ship. A few of those I wouldn't really qualify as romantic, but even so, that only makes your point more clearly- that there wasn't much attention paid to relationships. And looking at that list, I can see where people get the feeling that that SG-1 was lacking in that aspect. Interestingly, I think that Jonas in season 6 got more romantic screen time. Maybe they felt safer giving him more romantic attachments- a little like they did with Vala. Not one of the main 4 characters.

Thanks. I also like to make lists, seeing something in numbers helps me to sort it in my head, although I really suck at math.
I guess ship is the most subjective part of the series, so I'm sure you don't agree with all my choices. I just wanted to have a general picture.

As for Jonas..I think there were 2 episodes in season 6 and 1 in season 7 . So yeah, he definitely got more than "the norm", although not much more.