Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[picardythirds]

Great review, Hlndncr! And, I agree, I like Joe. He's a nice, normal charming guy, and I only want to claw his eyes out because he's in the way of my OTP. ;p

I think I'm in the minority but I can see where Joe was coming from agreeing to the mass sterilisation and here's why: Earth's growing population isn't sustainable long term. Artificially reducing the population to a manageable size makes sense in a purely objective viewpoint. It also reduces nasty deaths due to disease, starvation and poverty thereby increasing the quality of life for an entire planet. I think he probably saw it as a simple equation:

Cure for all diseases + no Goa'uld + a little compensatory population control = overall good for the planet/population

The only snag with the theory is that doing "eeny, meeny, miny, mo" with damaging people's fertility is ethically questionable and, no doubt, damaging if you happen to want kids and can't have them. I honestly think that Joe only considered the overall positive effects and didn't really dwell on the how, why and wherefore of it actually happening until it happened.

But I'm an environmental scientist so I inherently see how people damage the planet and compete for resources and try to do so from an objective stance. Adding in morals, ethics and emotions makes solutions much more complicated and I suspect the deal with the Aschen didn't allow time to dwell on "complicated", it struck me as a 'now or never' kind of deal.

I might not agree with the outcome or the decision but I understand the logic in it and I don't think Joe is a bad guy, he's just a politician. He's also not Jack, who has sworn to the death to defend his nation's freedom and human rights. And that, in essence is the difference between the two.

Interesting points, and I agree that Joe probably thought he was doing the best thing for Earth. I don't remember if there was an agreed to number, but we tend to forget that while Joe agreed, I'm sure he did not agree to anything close to 100% sterility, and that the Aschen double crossed him.

I like Joe. He's a good guy. And you hit the nail on the head in that last paragraph. Joe is looking out for "the needs of the many".

A trailer I and my friend Cami made for a dark French fic based on this ep

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53NYE...DD13D65F86C5F1

That was fantastic! So intense. The choices of scenes and colour, along with pacing made it very riveting. If it were a movie, I'd totally go see it


Lastly, Great job Scully!

It's definitely not one of my favorites to watch and yet it's such a fascinating look at how one can slide into the "dark side"
While I'm normally one who likes to read fluffy fics, I occasionally like well-written darkfic and this episode is an interesting look into how even the least military minded and perhaps the most compassionate member (orginally) of SG1 could fall prey to the lure of power. We who loved daniel from the beginning know him always as the "see the other side" advocate for the downtrodden, words instead of war, type of person and this is a fascinating look into how Daniel could slide away from that to the extreme.

[neverendingimagination]

Season 4 – Episode 18 - The Light
Shippers rewatch

Episode rating = 7/10
Ship rating = 6/10

Story

Sam is preparing to join Daniel and SG5 on another planet, when Lieutenant Barber jumps into the unstable vortex of the Stargate, killing himself instantly. Daniel and SG5 are recalled. When he returns, Daniel explains there is a pedestal that emits strange glowing lights onto the ceiling, which reflect around the room.
Daniel is aggressive and overeager to return, and investigate the strange device on the planet. It Hammond agrees to send SG1 back to the planet to investigate further the next morning, but Daniel insists he needs to go straight back. Jack has to head off Daniel’s extreme outburst at Hammond.
The next morning Daniel doesn’t turn up and Jack heads to his apartment to check on him. He finds Daniel on the edge of his balcony in a severely depressed state. Back at the SGC Janet finds his neurological activity has dropped dramatically. The rest of SG5 are also exhibiting the same symptoms. Janet equates the extreme changes to the effects of a drug of some kind.
Jack, Sam and Teal’c travel to the planet to find a way to treat Daniel and SG5. They find the light and before they can take a proper look, hear someone. They find a teenaged boy alone, living in the temple. He tells Jack his name is Lorne and is obviously lonely.
They discover the hard way that the light interferes with brain chemistry and acts like a kind of drug. Jack gets angry with Lorne when he insists his parents told him he couldn’t enter the room, and knew all along what would happen. Jack returns to the SGC and exhibits the same withdrawals as Daniel, SG5 are dead and Daniel is in danger of following. Jack has no choice but to take him back to the planet to save his life.
Jack goes to fetch Sam and Teal’c from the room but he himself is distracted and entranced by the light. Hours later Daniel enters and turns off the light; he explains that the control device is powered by something in the room. Daniel has translated more of the text and discovered that the temple was a kind of Goa’uld opium den. Sam states that she is not getting depressed and, with Daniel, concludes something else is causing the addiction, the light show merely took advantage of their altered brain chemistry.
Jack, Sam and Teal’c head out of the temple to search the surrounding land and find nothing but rocky beaches. Teal’c walks on ahead and Sam and Jack talk. They get angry at each other and Sam becomes insubordinate, Jack grabs her by the shoulders as she shouts and tells her they’re both in withdrawal. Teal’c meanwhile, has discovered the remains of Lorne’s parents.
Lorne admits that he turned off the device to try to free his parents and that they went crazy and killed themselves in the ocean. Jack demands he show them how to turn it off, he rushes into the room and complies.
Daniel and Sam conclude, the device was designed to be turned down incrementally to preserve the cognitive function of the human slaves – a symbiote would keep the Goa’uld’s brain balanced and allowed them to leave whenever they wished. Teal’c concludes he too will be safe to leave. Sam, Jack, Daniel and Lorne are left to contemplate the next few weeks relaxing in the temple as they turn down the device, before they are able to return home.

Discussion

General

Daniel’s interaction with Lorne reflects his own experiences. He too, was the son of explorers and archaeologists. He lost his parents due to their work, just as Lorne has, and he had the good fortune to pursue his career. Lorne was left alone. At the time of communicating with Lorne, he has no idea of their commonalities.

At first glance it appears to be a Daniel centric episode but a second look reveals Jack confronting his demons. He is faced with Daniel’s mortality and a child alone with a dangerous device. Both circumstances disturb him, he is outwardly angry with Lorne but this comes from his fears and how much he cares. The scenes with Lorne, mirror Jack’s experiences with his son, he is angry and deeply concerned to find a child left alone with a dangerous device. Saving Lorne could be seen as a minor retribution, he brings the child to safety and takes him away from the danger. He also gets to makes peace with Lorne in a way he couldn’t with Charlie.

The first scene where Sam exhibits changes in her behaviour is where Lorne tells her that General Hammond, did, try and contact them. “Where were we?” she snaps back. I found this line quite harsh in comparison to Sam’s usual tone. Sam is, by this point, much more adept at concealing her emotions and hiding her reactions, that she was in season 1. This brief lapse shows how much she is being affected by the situation, and the ‘drug’ they are now all addicted to.

Once again Teal’c’s influence is limited but the scene with Lorne and the toy gun is poignant and touching. The young man’s eagerness to give Teal’c a gift and forge a bond; is contrasted with Teal’c’s unwillingness to take the gift.

On a negative note, this is another example of the convenient Jaffa get-out clause ‘my symbiote will protect me’. Thankfully, in this case, the symbiote was not used as a means to put Teal’c in danger in order to glean more information. That gets grating.

Lorne’s acts are a mirror of those of SG1, they go in blindly and try to help the people they meet, but their actions don’t always have positive consequences. This episode is a reminder of the dangers SG1 face, and they don’t always have glowing eyes. Many of the dangers ahead of them are subtle and shrouded in mystery, nothing should be taken at face value and should always be treated with extreme caution.

Production

I find the choice of shots to introduce the ‘light’ room to be a fabulous choice. Filming the first view of the light from the floor and looking up to the ceiling whilst SG1 enter the room creates the impression of vast space. It really is the only way to show the splendour of the light, a shot at head height, would have been far too tight, claustrophobic and would potentially give the room an oppressive feel.

The lighting in the room is also very clever, the bright coloured lights and areas of intense shade mimic the theme of the episode; the entrancing nature of advanced technology and its hidden dangers. It reflects the nature of the device itself, the pleasure and wonder it can provide and the deep depression (and death) withdrawal inflicts.


Favourite scene(s)

This is tough to call, as there are many scenes that I enjoy.

The scene with Teal’c and Lorne gives us more insight into his gentler, nurturing side, and his acclimation into Earth society. It also highlights his honour and devotion to what is right.

Sam and Jack discussing the bet – both inside the control room and in the gateroom. This scene is so light and frivolous compared to their later interactions. Both parties seem relaxed and happy in their environment and Jack is happy to tease Sam. Her broad smile shows she enjoys it.

For some reason when Sam takes her hat off and her hair remains sticking up in a mess, it amuses me. I always chuckle to myself about the state of her hair, and wonder who had the brainwave of having her take her hat off.

Jack and Sam arguing on the beach sticks out in my mind. It is such a treat to see an insubordinate Carter, a woman who doesn’t leave her personal feelings at the door, and lets her superior know exactly how she feels without holding back. Jack’s restraint is very interesting, we know from previous episodes that he has a temper and can be cruel with his sarcasm and comments. He uses extreme self-control in not snapping back with something equally as inappropriate as Sam. He never talks to Daniel in that way, or any adversary they meet.

This scene also brings to light Sam’s deep feelings towards Jack, the things about him she doesn’t like. Usually these would have been minor irritations but the withdrawal and depressive symptoms bring them to the fore as major faults. His laziness and her need to call him Sir are the two things she brings up, both are inciting.

Obviously she doesn’t want to have to call him Sir, because it is a constant reminder of their professional relationship, and constraints on their emotions. I think the comment suggesting he is lazy is more out of jealousy; Jack is able to relax and spend time doing nothing, something she cannot do. She cannot wind down and let her mind wander; she always has to be occupied with a project. I think she would love the chance to relax with him but feels she cannot accept his proposals out of fear; the fear that they may stray too close to that invisible line.

Shippy Moments

Jack refusing to tell Sam what the bet is, ‘have fun’ her wide smile, and his cheeky grin.

Jack’s bet with Daniel that Sam wouldn’t go to the planet. She seems both amused and irritated by this – she appears to be trying not to smile when she asks him “don’t you have anything better to do”.

Sam’s insubordination and refusal to call Jack ‘Sir’ if they were stuck on the planet forever – and in contrast, Jack’s insistence on the use of his title.

This episode toys with shippers in that it presents a scenario where Jack and Sam may have to confront their feelings, and then snatches it away. It creates the perfect what if scenario, and I imagine; several fics grew from the seed this episode planted.

Can anyone recommend any?


Favourite Lines(s)

Jack - “Have fun”

Sam - “Don’t you have anything better to do?”

Daniel - “You were right, it was the batteries.”
Jack - “I was?”

Sam – “Be a good excuse for you wouldn’t it, to do nothing for a while.”
Jack – “What?”
Sam – “Forget it.”
Jack – “That would be, forget it, Sir.”
Sam – “Oh please, you think I’m gonna keep that up if we’re stuck here forever?”
Jack – “Listen Major-“
Sam - “No way”
Jack – “That’s no way Colonel.”
Sam – “Wait, I’m supposed to accept it, that’s the way it’s gotta be?”
Jack – “That’s the way it is.”
Sam – “What difference does it make, it’s not up to you-“
Jack – “Carter! You’re in Withdrawal.”
Sam – “Oh I’m in withdrawal.”
Jack – “Yes! So am I.”


Episode rating = 7/10

This episode is interesting and has good emotional ties. Daniel grows a pair and stops whining – even if it is drug induced. Sam and Jack go from flirting to arguing in hours and Teal’c gets to walk away unscathed, yet again. The stakes are high and the ‘ticking clock’ technique is used cleverly and subtly. The episode is a commentary on the actions of SG1 and highlights the potential consequences of interference, even when it is done with the best of intentions. The pace drags at times and the withdrawal sequences could have been more explosive – the contrast between Sam/Jack and Teal’c is hardly noticeable and could have been played upon more. The portrayal of ‘depression’ is unrealistic but when it is revealed as a withdrawal it becomes more plausible. Sam’s comments of ‘Why aren’t I getting depressed?” and “I’m beginning to feel myself again.” Are ignorant and ridiculous. TV Episodes don’t allow for realistic timelines but the effects of a drug wearing off are not immediate. Think of a painkiller, it takes a while to kick in and it stops working gradually.


Ship rating = 6/10

There are definitely some shippy moments but overall the content is geared toward the higher emotional stakes. The moments are well thought out and flow with the episode. It’s not the shippiest of episodes but at least you don’t need a magnifying glass and fine tooth comb to find it.

[XFchemist]

That was fantastic! So intense. The choices of scenes and colour, along with pacing made it very riveting. If it were a movie, I'd totally go see it

Thanks. She just told me she'd like to translate some of her fics in English, starting from this one. Do you think someone of you could be beta check her translation?

[Samantha-Carter-is-my-muse]

Thanks for the review, nei - there are actually a lot of good episodes in season 4

[picardythirds]

[center]
This episode toys with shippers in that it presents a scenario where Jack and Sam may have to confront their feelings, and then snatches it away. It creates the perfect what if scenario, and I imagine; several fics grew from the seed this episode planted.

Can anyone recommend any?

Excellent review NEI!

When I first saw this episode, I SCOURED the net for "The Light" fics and only found two, which, sadly, I did not bookmark. One involved rollerskates (they got bored) and one was defiantely rated M.

However, there is a helpful list....

http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/8...1#post13545117

Scroll down a little for The Light.


I personally rank this really high up on the scale of eps - it's one of those stand alone eps that show SG1 at its strengths - meet a problem, solve a problem, get some character development done, learn a lesson - that were so evident in its earlier days. It's the same reason why I like Forsaken. Bottle shows done well with great character moments often will trump episodes with lousy plot but great battle scenes.

[Sparky She-Demon]

I may have some trouble getting up the review today. RL put me through the wringer last weekend by landing my mom in the hospital. I may be going to visit her today. If I don't get it up today, then I'll get it up tomorrow.

[hlndncr]

I may have some trouble getting up the review today. RL put me through the wringer last weekend by landing my mom in the hospital. I may be going to visit her today. If I don't get it up today, then I'll get it up tomorrow.

Totally understandable Sparky. Family comes first. I hope your mom will be OK. {{hugs}}

[Sparky She-Demon]

Totally understandable Sparky. Family comes first. I hope your mom will be OK. {{hugs}}

Thanks a million. I am going to visit her, so the review will most likely be up tomorrow. Though I will say that I liked the episode.

[Samantha-Carter-is-my-muse]

I hope your mom gets well soon, Sparky *hugs*

[Sparky She-Demon]

I hope she does too. My birthday's next week!

[neverendingimagination]

Hope she gets well soon, take care of yourself too. x

[Sparky She-Demon]

Going to go and see her today.

[hlndncr]

Now that we are coming to the end of Season 4 I wanted to let everyone know that I'm going to be taking a break from the rewatch for a while. I have lots of other projects going on with the shippy holidays, S/J Secret Santa, the regular holidays in RL, etc.

I'm happy to put together a Season 5 rewatch schedule after the New Year, but if anyone wants to do it sooner or take over altogether that's fine with me.

[Sparky She-Demon]

I'd prefer if we wait.

[hlndncr]

Shipsgiving is Saturday, November 16th!



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