Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[fems]

Nice review, hlndncr! I don't agree on all points but I do agree that it's nice and angsty, and that Joe was the only serious competition for Jack when it comes to Sam. In a way, it's too bad he turned out to be less of a good guy (considering he agreed to sterilize a percentage of the population without their knowledge and basically only got upset about it after he found he and his wife had been affected too) than we'd been led to believe, simply because it would be nice if Sam attracted a normal, nice, sane and intelligent man aside from Jack for once

A Karswyll's The Aschen Confederation is a nice alternate take on the events in this episode.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

i remember rachel 500's 2010 stories really did develop a rivalry between Jack and Joe about the happiness of Carter/Sam at times i think Rachel wanted to write a scene where jack took a swing at Joe and kicked his little ambassador mikta.

[Lucycat]

Great review, hlndncr!!

[Wild Flower]

Nice review hlndncr! I love this episode too!

Interestingly the location they use for the gate terminal was used in the Doctor Who movie as well. And I went and visited it while I lived in Vancouver and it's a bit of a sad, run-down casino now. I sneaked around and had a quick look inside!

This is what it looks like normally;



I love the angst between Sam and Jack in this ep. The moment where Sam tells Jack she can't have children is just heartbreaking for both of them. They're so much more open with each other in this episode compared to the very restrained versions we see in our timeline. The emotions are close to the surface and the hurt and anger on both sides is so apparent. I love that we get to see them at their most vulnerable and having gone through almost their worst nightmares. Jack's being that he couldn't stop something awful happening and Sam seeing her CO (and possibly the one person she looks up to the most) fall away from her completely, professionally and personally.

[AmberLM]

Great review, Hlndncr! And, I agree, I like Joe. He's a nice, normal charming guy, and I only want to claw his eyes out because he's in the way of my OTP. ;p

I think I'm in the minority but I can see where Joe was coming from agreeing to the mass sterilisation and here's why: Earth's growing population isn't sustainable long term. Artificially reducing the population to a manageable size makes sense in a purely objective viewpoint. It also reduces nasty deaths due to disease, starvation and poverty thereby increasing the quality of life for an entire planet. I think he probably saw it as a simple equation:

Cure for all diseases + no Goa'uld + a little compensatory population control = overall good for the planet/population

The only snag with the theory is that doing "eeny, meeny, miny, mo" with damaging people's fertility is ethically questionable and, no doubt, damaging if you happen to want kids and can't have them. I honestly think that Joe only considered the overall positive effects and didn't really dwell on the how, why and wherefore of it actually happening until it happened.

But I'm an environmental scientist so I inherently see how people damage the planet and compete for resources and try to do so from an objective stance. Adding in morals, ethics and emotions makes solutions much more complicated and I suspect the deal with the Aschen didn't allow time to dwell on "complicated", it struck me as a 'now or never' kind of deal.

I might not agree with the outcome or the decision but I understand the logic in it and I don't think Joe is a bad guy, he's just a politician. He's also not Jack, who has sworn to the death to defend his nation's freedom and human rights. And that, in essence is the difference between the two.

[XFchemist]

[XFchemist]

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

[IamDKScully]

Banner by Cagranosalis

Written by Robert C. Cooper
Directed by Peter DeLuise
Original Air Date January 19, 2001

Summary

Called to Abydos by his father-in-law, Daniel finally finds Sha’re’s son, the Harseisis child. More actually you could argue that the child has found Daniel. SG-1 brings the child back to Earth where Janet pokes and prods him to see what he’s made of and the child knocks Daniel out and gives him one heck of a bad trip. In his “dreams” Daniel is shown just how the knowledge of the Goa’uld can corrupt even the most idealistic and passive of intentions.

Favorite Lines

Ahh, well, it’s not like a burning bush or anything.
Kasuf: I have seen many bushes burn.
S’pose you have.

Wizard of Oz reference:
Daniel try to keep it in Kansas, huh.

Sam to Jack:
No. I just have my opinion. But that use to be worth something to you.

Interesting Tidbits

Jack’s loyalties between Sam and Daniel seem to be a little torn in Daniel’s dreamworld.

Jack tells Sam that everybody thinks she’s nuts…he also tells her this later on in Ascension. He also doesn’t seem to quite know whether to believe it in both cases.

Here is where we see the zatarc detector again and the mention of what it is supposed to do.

We also see Aldwin again. Remember him? He’s the one who was willing to blow everybody up on Netu.

Teal’c is suspiciously absent after Daniel summons him to his lab for a translation. The conversation between Jack and Sam leads us to believe that he is perhaps dead and that Daniel is behind his demise.

Daniel’s jealousy of Sam comes through in his treatment of her throughout his dream. He gets her out of the way because he knows she has figured things out. He accuses her of being jealous. Of what exactly? I think he’s talking about the fact that it is he who comes up with this technological marvel and not her. Daniel finally gets to save the world, sort of.

Jack and Sam

As touched on before, we see an interesting dynamic in this episode. Sam and Daniel are two of Jack’s best friends, probably Daniel more so than Sam so it is hard for Jack to decide where to lay his loyalties in this ep. “We're talking about Daniel here. Sometimes he can be a little odd. Every once in a while he gets carried away, but he's not going to do anything to jeopardize the entire planet.” In most situations, Jack has a tendency to believe both of these two without question. Now he finds himself having to believe the worst about one of them and is being dealt the killing blow by the other.

I love the line I quoted above from Sam “I only have my opinion. But that used to be worth something to you.” To me, this implies that something more has happened off screen between these two during this year that its taken for Daniel’s plan to come to fruition. Perhaps it’s just that they’ve been separated because of her role in the technological side of things. Its never really made clear what Jack’s been doing while Teal’c is I’m gonna say dead, Daniel is living like a power mongering king, and Sam has been slaving away and putting the pieces together. There’s just something there during this exchange and maybe it’s something that comes from the actors and the way they deliver the lines, I don’t know.

Overall Opinion of the Episode

I don’t know about everyone else, but I actually like this episode. It’s not one I tend to watch because it’s Danielcentric, but after watching it last week, I found myself rating it pretty highly. The whole point of the episode is to show how “absolute power corrupts absolutely.” Although we see Daniel struggle in the beginning with these flashes of evil, we also see him slowly envelop it. It’s creepy and I love creepy Daniel, I know that is so wrong, but MS plays it so beautifully. This is a place that his character would never dream he was capable of going and as Daniel lovers we find it hard to believe as well. But, I don’t think it’s over-the-top. Sometimes we don’t see madness creeping up on us and it’s only through others we are able to realize the severity of our actions. I think this is a great Jack, Sam, Daniel episode.

(Once again, we are on Earth and the only role Teal’c seems to have is to translate some Goa’uld. Tsk, tsk.)

So, overall, I give this episode 7.5 out of 10.
As for shippyness? Since there’s not much more than that exchange between Jack and Sam I’d have to say I give it about a 4 out of 10. It’s there but there could be more.

[Sparky She-Demon]

Good review, Scully!

[IamDKScully]

Good review, Scully!

Thanks! I wrote it at work...SHHHH!

[Sparky She-Demon]

No one will hear it from me!

[XFchemist]

A trailer I and my friend Cami made for a dark French fic based on this ep

[Samantha-Carter-is-my-muse]

Thanks for the review, Scully. I like that episode too, absolute power can indeed be a very dangerous thing.

[neverendingimagination]

Eeeek, pretty sure this means I'm next for a review - I know what I'm doing tomorrow.

I'll read yours when I've finished writing mine Scully, I'm sure its great

Edit: You know you've watched an episode too much when you can write the story beats and shippy moments from memory.