Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Sparky She-Demon]

The blues are pretty much it for me! Though when he's in casual clothes, particularly that leather jacket...

[majorsal]

The blues are pretty much it for me! Though when he's in casual clothes, particularly that leather jacket...

i luuuv how he looked in '1969'!

[Sparky She-Demon]

I bet you did!

[Samantha-Carter-is-my-muse]

A lot of guys I know think she's gay because she has very short hair, lives in combat boots and is a bit of a feminist. She's a strong, confident woman who doesn't need a man to protect her - of course she's a lesbian

Just perfect, Amber *virtual green*

A gay friend of mine has grown her hair longer just because she wanted to. Some of her lesbian friends have asked her if she's straight now!!! My hair has always been short, but that has never lead to questions about my preferences. I've never myself made the "short hair = lesbian" conclusion so I was quite surprised when I heard of it for the first time not so long ago.

One of the things I love best about Sam is that she dresses appropriately for her profession. No high heels and skimpy tight clothes with gobs of make-up and hair product.

That's thanks to AT who risked her job so that the character would be the soldier and the scientist she was meant to be.

It sounds like we have a lot to thank AT for in regard to how Sam turned out to be

and scruffy jack gets me too... *drools some more*

Oh yes, scruffy Jack is the best

[brendini]

Amanda has said at numerous times that many women will come up to her at conventions and tell her what a role model she is and how they've learned from her and used it in their lives and professions. High praise, indeed.

I have no idea what morticians wear at work when they are not dissecting bodies, but it always cracks me up when I see women medical examiners on tv at various sites examing dead bodies, and the lady medical examiner is wearing a business suit or low cut blouse and thin skirt and high heeled shoes, leaving me to wonder if that's what they were wearing when called to the death site or did they change into that when called out.

Well, the one I know wears pants to work. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen her in a skirt, even when she had a service to do. However, she does wear heels, just not stilettos.

i luuuv how he looked in '1969'!

I liked how he looked in "2010" better but yeah!

It sounds like we have a lot to thank AT for in regard to how Sam turned out to be



Oh yes, scruffy Jack is the best

http://www.an-c.dk/at/gateworld/2010-scruffy-jack.jpg

Yes, and yes! AT took a big risk by not agreeing to do the "Stargate Barbie" photo shoot with the push up bra and low-cut tank top, and I definitely commend her for that.

Mmmmmm....scruffy Jack!!!!*drools*

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

Yes, and yes! AT took a big risk by not agreeing to do the "Stargate Barbie" photo shoot with the push up bra and low-cut tank top, and I definitely commend her for that.

what stargate barbie photo shoot are you guys talking about?

[brendini]

what stargate barbie photo shoot are you guys talking about?

You guys correct me if I'm wrong (I'm going off memory here). Very shortly after they had filmed the pilot, Amanda arrived in her trailer one day to see (literally) a pushup bra, and a low cut tank top waiting for her. If I remember right, the producers had sent them over because they "just wanted to see" what it would look like if Sam wore them. Amanda refused, even to the point of tears, telling them that this wasn't who the character was. They did finally relent, and the photos were never shot, that I know of.
But even though the pilot had been shot (which meant they all had contracts), there still could have been trouble for Amanda for standing up to TPTB.
Along the same vein, once she had her contract, she went to the writers and asked them to just write Sam as a person, not as a man or a woman. She told them that she would be able to pull off the femininity (paraphrasing here) just by being her.
I think it's obvious that they already had a few eps written before that "request" took hold, because of how Sam mellowed out. At least, I think she mellowed out

[XFchemist]

Yes. She talked about this in some Con. The panel is on YT. She said she was risky because she could have been fired after the pilot.

[Sparky She-Demon]

But she had a contract, how could they have fired her after the pilot?

Glad she stood up to TPTB!

[hlndncr]

But she had a contract, how could they have fired her after the pilot?

Glad she stood up to TPTB!

She didn't have a full season contract. The big wigs wanted someone else for the part. Someone who was all T&A (surprise, surprise). BW pushed for Amanda and was able to get her into the pilot. I'm pretty sure after working with her RDA fought on her side too, and since he was the big star AT got to keep the job.

She had to fight for her job and for the integrity of the character over and over again.

For me that's one reason I was so disappointed with her over . Feeling like Sam needed a boyfriend/romantic storyline was a real step backwards. Sam's relationship with Jack was always empowering; it never diminished Sam as a character. Thinking she had to be freed from that relationship and shown pursuing another just made Sam look weak and desperate.

As to the Sam/Cam thing. *shudders* Appearance-wise, yes BB is attrative enough to be with Sam where DDL was not. But character-wise, Cam is way to heedless and immature. Sam is more like his mother than anything else. *shudders more*

Sam/Martouf similar issue. JR is reasonably attractive (he has nice eyes, although his smile is a little creepy). But Martouf was the mate of a snake who subjegated and abused Sam and then left her memories and feelings behind. Any relationship between Sam and Martouf would be totally Stockholme syndrome creepy.

Just another example of how poorly the PTB understood women and how Sam's character could suffer for it. At least they never took it that far!

[AmberLM]

Don't throw things but I just re-watched the ring scene from Affinity and I noticed something that I never noticed before - The way Sam says "What about you?" to Jack right after he's finished talking about families sounds to me like she was angry with him. She does this eye thing and her jaw kinda twitches - Sam does that when she's p****d off!

I always saw it before as a "what should I do about you?" Kinda question but on about the 100th re-watch I can see she may actually be at the end of tether and be doing her equivalent of screaming "why are you talking me into this when I'm trying to get you to tell me don't do it!!!" I think that that was her (rather awful) way of telling him "I still *really* like you and I'm here if you want me - do you still want me because I don't know!!"

[Sparky She-Demon]

I thought that Stockholm Syndome was a captive falling in love with a captor?

[fems]

Don't throw things but I just re-watched the ring scene from Affinity and I noticed something that I never noticed before - The way Sam says "What about you?" to Jack right after he's finished talking about families sounds to me like she was angry with him. She does this eye thing and her jaw kinda twitches - Sam does that when she's p****d off!

I always saw it before as a "what should I do about you?" Kinda question but on about the 100th re-watch I can see she may actually be at the end of tether and be doing her equivalent of screaming "why are you talking me into this when I'm trying to get you to tell me don't do it!!!" I think that that was her (rather awful) way of telling him "I still *really* like you and I'm here if you want me - do you still want me because I don't know!!"

I don't blame Jack for his reaction; it's not like Sam sleeping with another guy and actually considering said guy's proposal screams how much she loves Jack. If Jack had told her not to go through with it then they probably would never get out of their subordinate/superior relationship! He had no right to tell her what to do and Sam, really, had no right to ask it of him. As a friend, informing him her guy had just proposed and she was doubting a bit because of her job etc, okay but not as the guy who probably loves you more than anything and has been standing aside for a few months now while you're getting cozy with some loser totally unworthy of you. Besides, Jack is not one to talk about his feelings easily so why would he go out on a limb here and confess his feelings when she might just nod, thank him for his honesty and still go ahead and marry the cop! It's not like Jack had something to offer her other than a 'someday', like it had been for the past few years...

If Jack would have told her to kick the cop to the curb then that 'thing' would always stand between them if they got together later. Heck, Sam might even resent him (okay, she probably wouldn't but worst case scenario) for 'telling her what to do' about Pete if she and Jack still can't get together for a few years, she's too old to conceive by the time they're together and/or too much has happened for their relationship to work out and she's just basically wasted 15+ years pining after someone only to be disappointed and ending up alone again after making a go of it. I'm not saying it wouldn't be the same for Jack, but he's done the whole family thing before and, well, basically had a life once whereas Sam never really got further than a successful career and some failed relationships.

The proposal (heck, the entire relationship) was something for Sam and her alone to reject/accept.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

Alright since i have been so busy with my story I kinda half-assed this review. New Ground will be a lot more detailed.

RULES OF ENGAGEMENT

Synopsis (provided by Stargate Wiki):
SG-1's efforts to retrieve SG-11 thought to be MIA gets them stunned and captured. They work out that the "SG team" is actually made of slaves who work for Apophis to invade Earth. SG-1 must convince them that Apophis is dead and to stop them from carrying out their mission.

Favorite lines:
O'Neill: Master Teal'c, if I may?
Teal'c: (to the warriors) This is Colonel O'Neill. He is much loved by Apophis.

Hammond: Colonel, I want to debrief ASAP.
O'Neill: Yes, my lord.

O'Neill: Oh, I've already begun. This is the infamous "tuna torture."

General Discussion:
Likes:

• Enjoyed the appearance of the Intars.
• The fact that the goa'uld (well Apophis anyway) using Humans not as host but as cannon fodder was a pretty interesting development in the story of what the goa'uld are like.
• The Infamous Tuna Torture Scene
  
  

• Dislikes:
• I disliked the fact that an SG Team would have rolled over and gave in the goa'uld willing to teach those humans how to use Tau'ri weapons and military tactics.
  
• The story was a little lacking in pacing and execution. It seemed the plot moved very slowly. Even during the battle sequences I felt a lack of tension, something Stargate does not usually fail to deliver. I was also disappointed with the lack of intellect demonstrated by the whole of the team.
  

S/J Discussion:
Not really much of S/J interaction in this episode except for Sam saying that Jack already thought of the solution to convincing the humans that Apophis was dead and Jack was confused and said he hadn’t the slightest clue where Carter was going with her statement.

[fems]

Hum, I always assumed the "humans" in this situation were Jaffa as well. It's been a while since I've watched this episode last (not one of my favorites) so I had totally forgotten about it. Kind of odd too to say they use "humans as fodder in battle" when it has never been mentioned/shown before or ever again... Mostly the Goa'uld seem to enslave humans and make them work for them (mining etc) or take them as lo'taurs, which is still enslavement but perhaps a bit better depending on your pov as they might end up as new hosts. Anyway, my point is: why would regular humans love Apophis so much that they're willing to fight for them? And there isn't really an advantage to it for the Goa'uld either, unless he wants them to infiltrate the SGC but they'd be discovered pretty quickly (if they could even get the IDC and GDO), since humans are much weaker physically than Jaffa. To use them as prey for weapons training and tracking skills etc for Jaffa makes much more sense than this scenario, in my opinion.

Another thing I always thought was odd was how these kids were being trained to fight the Tau'ri (Apophis must have thought them a real threat to do so) yet they don't even know who SG-1 is? I'd think Apophis or his cronies would ensure their warriors would be able to recognize them or at least the names of important foes. It seems everyone is always recognizing SG-1 off-world, be that Jaffa (from Apophis or other Goa'uld) or people like Aris Boch. You'd think these new 'recruits' would be taught that sooner than which plants are indigenous where.

I also don't believe SG-11 (was it?) was really giving Apophis or his Jaffa masters very important information. Mostly stuff like cotton being indigenous to North America. If they had given up their IDC then Apophis would probably already have attacked Earth rather than waste his time like this. Besides, it's not like Earth weapons are difficult to figure out; you hear about young kids accidentally shooting themselves/others with their parents' guns in the news all the time. If a child can figure out then I'm sure a Goa'uld/smart Jaffa could too. Don't forget that most of the "Goa'uld" tech was scavenged from other advanced races, so they must have been able to understand the technology and even reverse-engineer some of it, or they never would have come this far.