Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Nynaeve506]

Oh, just one of quite a few!

The road to canon is campy and paved with plotholes

[Jolinar_of_Malkshur]

...and I LOVE the look he shoots McKenzie (that's the doctor, right?). A warning look that says 'this session is DONE'.

Love that look too! That whole moment is fantastic - Jack's fierce way of comforting and protecting Sam while silently threatening the doc

[picardythirds]

I never realised the neck sniff always happened! *LOL*

Actually, upon re-watching, this might be one of the few times he didn't really - he sort of sniffed her hair instead. He looked like he was moving towards it but I guess since this sam had long hair that made it harder

[Jolinar_of_Malkshur]

Playing catch-up with the rewatch again. Here's my LJ posts for the following eps:

The Torment of Tantalus

Bloodlines

Rather looking forward to reviewing Fire and Water, so no doubt have that one watched and reviewed very soon - should hopefully be caught up by the end of the week

[SaraBahama]

So here is the official season 1 rewatch schedule:


31st August - Children of the Gods (SGSuzi)
7th September - The Enemy Within (Meredithe5)
14th September - Emancipation (SaraBahama)
19th September - The Broca Divide (Brendini)
24th September - The First Commandment (Hlndncr)
29th September - Cold Lazarus (sueKay)
4th October - The Nox (Meredithe5)
9th October - Brief Candle (Hedwig)
14th October - Thor's Hammer (Hlndncr)
19th October - The Torment of Tantalus (Lucycat)
24th October - Bloodlines (Lt. Colonel John Sheppard)
29th October - Fire and Water (SGSuzi)
3rd November - Hathor (Meredithe5)
8th November - Singularity (SaraBahama)
13th November - Cor-ai (Lt. Colonel John Sheppard)
18th November - Enigma (Hlndncr)
23rd November - Solitudes (SGSuzi)
28th November - Tin Man (Brendini)
3rd December - There But for the Grace of God (SGSuzi)
8th December - Politics (Part 1 Meredithe5) Within the Serpent's Grasp (Part 2 Lt. Colonel John Sheppard)

Bringing the list forward.

Was it Meredithe that was doing the review on Hathor, or was that granted to someone else? *darn fuzzy memory*

...guh! I don't have much time to do 'Singularity'! ohmygoodness!

[Samfan13]

Was it Meredithe that was doing the review on Hathor, or was that granted to someone else? *darn fuzzy memory*

Thought it was Sparky since I seem to recall it's her favourite ep

[meredithe5]

Sparky She-Demon wanted to get involved so she's going to be doing the rewatch for Hathor. I PM'ed her earlier and she should post it some time tonight or tomorrow

[RamonaThePest]

Playing catch-up with the rewatch again. Here's my LJ posts for the following eps:

The Torment of Tantalus

Bloodlines

Rather looking forward to reviewing Fire and Water, so no doubt have that one watched and reviewed very soon - should hopefully be caught up by the end of the week

What was up with Ernest and after greeting everyone else, just gives Catherine that "hmmmm" and stalks off? And yes I know he had kept the thought of a young her in his mind but it just seems weird after his enthusiastic embrace of everyone else.

I've often wondered about Teal'c easily respecting Sam despite the role of Jaffa women. I just read a link fems posted today of an old AT interview where she expressed she hoped the explored Sam's relationship with Teal'c (interview is before Paradise Lost). It would have been interesting to see Teal'c cross the line in the early days and how Sam deals with it and to see the conversation Jack would had with Teal'c over it.

oooh, can I feed plot bunnies for the writers here? Teal'c steps in to save Sam because he doubts her abilities at first. Sam resents it, let's him know to ack off, and on the next mission proves just how capable she is. Teal'c still continues to protect her while being a bit obnoxious, calling her "Woman", much the way he spoke to Dray'ac. When Jack confronts him, Teal'c says something along the lines of "Is not Captain Carter the woman my brother has branded as his future mate? Thus it is my duty to protect her when you are not in the vicinity." Of course, you guys would flesh it out and make it all sooooo much better. Hint,hint...

[Nynaeve506]

oooh, can I feed plot bunnies for the writers here? Teal'c steps in to save Sam because he doubts her abilities at first. Sam resents it, let's him know to ack off, and on the next mission proves just how capable she is. Teal'c still continues to protect her while being a bit obnoxious, calling her "Woman", much the way he spoke to Dray'ac. When Jack confronts him, Teal'c says something along the lines of "Is not Captain Carter the woman my brother has branded as his future mate? Thus it is my duty to protect her when you are not in the vicinity." Of course, you guys would flesh it out and make it all sooooo much better. Hint,hint...

There are two issues I would see:

1. There's really nothing between Jack and Sam at this point in the series that would put Teal'c in the mindset of thinking the two of them are in any way connected outside of a professional level. He definitely picks up on subtext as he is the first shipper and an angst lover at that, but that comes later in the series.

2. Teal'c is incredibly astute. While he may have some ingrained notions about men and women, he would recognize that not only are the Tau'ri superior in their understanding of technology to him (Teal'c was a master strategist, a leader and warrior, not a tech guy), but that the social structures of our culture are different. Sam proves herself from the get go as a capable woman and Teal'c respects that. Those ideas do later come up when he meets Ishta, showing that he can accept certain concepts within a culture, but that within his own culture, he expects certain gender roles.

That's not to say that a story between the two of them at the beginning couldn't have happened. I don't think Sam would be hostile towards Teal'c, she would probably try to explain the cultural differences, and then if he kept doing it, she'd address it with Jack who would probably get Daniel in on it to try to figure out how to bridge the divide with Teal'c falling into line when he realizes it dishonors Sam to treat her as such (honor would probably be the best way to approach it with him).

[RamonaThePest]

There are two issues I would see:

1. There's really nothing between Jack and Sam at this point in the series that would put Teal'c in the mindset of thinking the two of them are in any way connected outside of a professional level. He definitely picks up on subtext as he is the first shipper and an angst lover at that, but that comes later in the series.

2. Teal'c is incredibly astute. While he may have some ingrained notions about men and women, he would recognize that not only are the Tau'ri superior in their understanding of technology to him (Teal'c was a master strategist, a leader and warrior, not a tech guy), but that the social structures of our culture are different. Sam proves herself from the get go as a capable woman and Teal'c respects that. Those ideas do later come up when he meets Ishta, showing that he can accept certain concepts within a culture, but that within his own culture, he expects certain gender roles.

That's not to say that a story between the two of them at the beginning couldn't have happened. I don't think Sam would be hostile towards Teal'c, she would probably try to explain the cultural differences, and then if he kept doing it, she'd address it with Jack who would probably get Daniel in on it to try to figure out how to bridge the divide with Teal'c falling into line when he realizes it dishonors Sam to treat her as such (honor would probably be the best way to approach it with him).

I personally never saw the ship coming but lots of people did very early on. Many say it started with Solitudes (is that the "ice planet" episode?)
I think with Sam's personality (especially how she was in the early days) she would exert her views on this rather forcefully.

I hear you and you have valid points, however it would be fiction. And while I prefer canon, the story doesn't have to be. And if anyone here feels inspired to write it, it could still be canon because it would revolve around Teal'c not understanding. And Jack could be flustered or in denial when answering Teal'c. It could still fit into canon because Teal'c didn't even raise a surprised eyebrow at the Zatarc questioning. Heehee.


Yes, Teal'c is very intelligent so perhaps would/did figure out the proper treatment of women (especially women officers) quickly, but if we let little details like that get in the way, we'd be missing a lot of very entertaining fanfic.

[hlndncr]

2. Teal'c is incredibly astute. While he may have some ingrained notions about men and women, he would recognize that not only are the Tau'ri superior in their understanding of technology to him (Teal'c was a master strategist, a leader and warrior, not a tech guy), but that the social structures of our culture are different. Sam proves herself from the get go as a capable woman and Teal'c respects that. Those ideas do later come up when he meets Ishta, showing that he can accept certain concepts within a culture, but that within his own culture, he expects certain gender roles.

I would just like to add to this that Teal'c showed a great deal of respect and deference to Sam at the very beginning. In CotG (the original not the recut) in the end right after Teal'c comes through the gate to the SGC he surrenders his staff weapon to Sam with a bow. I love that moment because I think it shows that Teal'c views her as the one in authority at that moment and he is putting himself in her hands.

[hedwig]

I would just like to add to this that Teal'c showed a great deal of respect and deference to Sam at the very beginning. In CotG (the original not the recut) in the end right after Teal'c comes through the gate to the SGC he surrenders his staff weapon to Sam with a bow. I love that moment because I think it shows that Teal'c views her as the one in authority at that moment and he is putting himself in her hands.

And then they went and deleted tht scene in the new version of CotG. That was one of my favorite scenes.

[Nynaeve506]

I personally never saw the ship coming but lots of people did very early on. Many say it started with Solitudes (is that the "ice planet" episode?)
I think with Sam's personality (especially how she was in the early days) she would exert her views on this rather forcefully.

I hear you and you have valid points, however it would be fiction. And while I prefer canon, the story doesn't have to be. And if anyone here feels inspired to write it, it could still be canon because it would revolve around Teal'c not understanding. And Jack could be flustered or in denial when answering Teal'c. It could still fit into canon because Teal'c didn't even raise a surprised eyebrow at the Zatarc questioning. Heehee.


Yes, Teal'c is very intelligent so perhaps would/did figure out the proper treatment of women (especially women officers) quickly, but if we let little details like that get in the way, we'd be missing a lot of very entertaining fanfic.

As in... canon? LOL

But you brought it up in the discussion thread, so we discuss it ^^ Plenty of people read and write non-canon fic. I just thought I'd weight in it

For me, I'm only interested in details that enhance canon (and fit within it). So yes, that will color just about any response I give

Canonically speaking, there wasn't a romance at the beginning. Was there attraction? Sure. Was there respect? Most definitely. Was there chemistry? Without a doubt. Solitudes highlights Sam's respect for Jack and creates a bond between them as comrades, as fellow soldiers, and also as people who are facing death together. Given what we know of the other universes, no doubt if the military regs weren't in place, they'd have had quite the whirlwind romance. But the regs being what they are... So yes, there was a connection, but it doesn't really blossom, I think, until S.4 when it hits them between the eyes that "Oh no. When did this go from X to THIS?" Jack could have claimed some level of innocence, even when he asked her fishing (by that point he was in a very staunch denial about what was going on - and that the reality of that hit him like a two by four when Carter told him to leave her on that ship and he refused. That look on his face of what he shouts in the heat of the moment takes the ship from one level to another).

I def. saw the chemistry from the get go, but I had no idea what the writers planned on doing with it (which is how I ended up on this board LOL. I was trying to figure out if it was worth shipping since I rarely ever ship ^^).

[fems]

I def. saw the chemistry from the get go, but I had no idea what the writers planned on doing with it (which is how I ended up on this board LOL. I was trying to figure out if it was worth shipping since I rarely ever ship ^^).

Got more than you expected?

[Nynaeve506]

Got more than you expected?

Yes! LOL. Here I am six years later. I suppose I determined it was a worthy ship ^^