Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[hedwig]

Supernatural!!!!!!!

A little art I made in honor of the role

http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh563/meredithe5/My%20Artwork/th_Supernatural_zpsb1833754.jpg

The show is on it's 8th season so I'd recommend watching it from the beginning if able (it's all on netflix) otherwise you'll be very confused!!

YES! That's the one. I knew it started with an 'S'. I guess I had a senior moment there with not remembering the name.

[selene0789]

Supernatural!!!!!!!

The show is on it's 8th season so I'd recommend watching it from the beginning if able (it's all on netflix) otherwise you'll be very confused!!

Supernatural O/T:

Spoiler:

I just started in on the 7th Season today. It's awesome. I've seen so many people from Stargate and Sanctuary that it makes my heart go pitter patter. There's Ellen, played by Samantha Ferris (Raleigh the Tok'ra from Out of Mind/Into the Fire). And there's Mitch Pileggi (Col. Caldwell) and Corin Nemec (Jonas Quinn) as Winchester relatives. And just today I saw an episode with Emilie Ullerup (Ashley Magnus from Sanctuary) in it.

As far as Sanctuary sightings go, I've also seen one of the baddies from Season 4's "Monsoon" (X-ray vision guy), and also Bruno Delacourt (the flying Abnormal/Mr. Bickerson) character from "Homecoming" and the finale. Along with a gazillion other people.

AT being on the show is going to be kinda like going full circle. I can't wait!!

[meredithe5]

Supernatural O/T:

Spoiler:

I just started in on the 7th Season today. It's awesome. I've seen so many people from Stargate and Sanctuary that it makes my heart go pitter patter. There's Ellen, played by Samantha Ferris (Raleigh the Tok'ra from Out of Mind/Into the Fire). And there's Mitch Pileggi (Col. Caldwell) and Corin Nemec (Jonas Quinn) as Winchester relatives. And just today I saw an episode with Emilie Ullerup (Ashley Magnus from Sanctuary) in it.

As far as Sanctuary sightings go, I've also seen one of the baddies from Season 4's "Monsoon" (X-ray vision guy), and also Bruno Delacourt (the flying Abnormal/Mr. Bickerson) character from "Homecoming" and the finale. Along with a gazillion other people.

AT being on the show is going to be kinda like going full circle. I can't wait!!

It really is a cool show! I actually started watching Supernatural when it first came out and fell in love with it before I discovered the Stargate Franchise. They've had tons of guest stars including Christopher Heyerdahl and Jewel Staite.

[fems]

There is no indication that the sidelining of Sam's character was ever an AT request. RCC's vision of the new Stargate did not involve Sam and he made that clear from the get go. AoT was just par for the course at that point.

Since the movie was filmed before SGA S4 (AT was brought over to that show by JM/PM who loved her). Unfortunately, they didn't know what to do with Sam on Atlantis either. That's when AT started looking at other options, like making her own show with DK and MW. I'm pretty sure there was no overlap between Sanctuary and AoT.

AT and even CJ suffered through those last two seasons; everything was about D/V ship and Cam was just hanging around, but even his character wasn't treated well (with him saying something along the lines of being under no illusion that he's not commanding anyone on SG-1 to Landry).

Yea it's a great movie, but as a shipper you gotta wonder what happened during that year and if Sam tried to talk to Jack...... the perfect movie for lost of shippy fics lol

I actually don't really enjoy lost year fics where S/J is involved. I've read 'em, but I have yet to feel like they are truly in character for Sam.

Here's why I don't think she reached out to Jack:

1. He's not *her* Jack. He's a different version - he's not the man who fell in love with her, who watched her over eight-ten years...he's a different man who didn't know her.

2. She was buying the generic version of Fruit Loops. FRUIT LOOPS. Only someone who was smarting would be buying something associated with a precious memory. To me that says that there's no way this Jack would ever satisfy her heart.

3. XFChemist said this once and I agree - it's like she's cheating on 'her' Jack - and I say that because I fully believe they got hitched between S.8 & S.9 (has to do with regs).

4. They would have had a close eye on her. They shoved her underground, denied her access to her very passion in science...do you think for one second they're going to let her get close? And given his reaction to her, because his son is still alive, do you think she would want to? If she's looking for a sympathetic ear, Jack "the other" O'Neill sure ain't gonna be it.

I must agree with this, also keeping the ending of the movie in mind. That's why I made my Continuum fic an AU, rather than fill in the missing year.

I have to agree with Nynaeve here. While I would have muched prefered to have SG-1 do something other than sit on their butts for a year from the way the movie was written I think that's exactly what they did. That's not the SG-1 I know and love, but what can you do. At any rate, I think if Sam would have done anything she would have been trying to get in touch with Cam and Daniel and get the heck back to their own timeline, not trying to score with another Jack. Just MHO.

Again, I agree. The whole sitting around and doing nothing was very out of character for SG-1 and didn't sit well with me. But with the movie's ending there really isn't much they could have done to fix everything, since most of it was down to luck (like them making it to the Russians, persuading Teal'c, Teal'c knowing the location of Ba'al's time machine and bringing SG-1 exactly where they need to be)...

Shall I point out here that he would have looked WAY better in his leather jacket in this scene??

Very good point!

Leather jacket...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]35666[/ATTACH]

Or, as fems suggested...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]35667[/ATTACH]

Oooooh, sweet!

The only "film" that AT directed was in Season 7, "Resurrection". She didn't direct anything else until she was on Sanctuary, and has also directed a few episodes of "Primeval" that will be airing this fall. And the only reason she got to direct an episode of SG1 is that she had it in her contract that if she wasn't allowed to, it was a contract-breaker. So they finally let her do it. She had to share with Michael Shanks, though, because he co-wrote the episode with somebody else. I always thought that was unfair, given that MS had written and directed once or twice prior to that.

And the reason she was pretty much wallpaper in Season 10 was because RCC didn't want her there. She was quoted at one time as saying that nearing the time for Season 10 to start filming, she hadn't even been contacted about signing a new contract, but that everyone else in the cast had been. She called RCC and asked him if she was going to have to look for a new job. He excused himself by saying he thought she'd want to stay home with her daughter instead of coming back to the show. Mind you, he didn't ask; he just didn't send her a new contract. I would not have continued watching had she not been back in Season 10. RCC is also the reason there was little to no mention of Jack throughout S9&10 or AoT.

I hadn't heard any of this? Do we have some transcripts? I always thought she was busy with Sanctuary - I know that JM had wanted to have her for S.5 of SGA, but that she turned him down (and from what AT said, it wasn't an easy decision and she cried over it, but decided to go forward with Sanctuary).

She didn't start Sanctuary-related stuff until she was on SGA. At the end of her season there, she had to decide whether to sign on with SGA for another year or move on to Sanctuary. I'm sure there are interviews around where she talked about it being a very difficult decision for her, but she ultimately decided to go with Sanctuary, because without her, there would have been no Sanctuary, since she was to be the star of that show.

There's at least one convention she attended where she spoke of the situation about the contracts at the beginning of Season 10.

I have also read (interviews) or heard (youtube vids from conventions) these things and I must say she made the right choice. Not only did she have four years with Sanctuary rather than just the season finale of SGA had she chosen differently, but I think she also did her career a big favor by showing that she was capable of playing a completely different character after more than a decade of Sam Carter.

[SaraBahama]

So here is the official season 1 rewatch schedule:


31st August - Children of the Gods (SGSuzi)
7th September - The Enemy Within (Meredithe5)
14th September - Emancipation (SaraBahama)
19th September - The Broca Divide (Brendini)
24th September - The First Commandment (Hlndncr)
29th September - Cold Lazarus (sueKay)
4th October - The Nox (Meredithe5)
9th October - Brief Candle (Hedwig)
14th October - Thor's Hammer (Hlndncr)
19th October - The Torment of Tantalus (Lucycat)
24th October - Bloodlines (Lt. Colonel John Sheppard)
29th October - Fire and Water (SGSuzi)
3rd November - Hathor (Meredithe5)
8th November - Singularity (SaraBahama)
13th November - Cor-ai (Lt. Colonel John Sheppard)
18th November - Enigma (Hlndncr)
23rd November - Solitudes (SGSuzi)
28th November - Tin Man (Brendini)
3rd December - There But for the Grace of God (SGSuzi)
8th December - Politics (Part 1 Meredithe5) Within the Serpent's Grasp (Part 2 Lt. Colonel John Sheppard)

So...I've been a bad girl and not watched First Commandment yet, and it looks like today is the day for sueKay to post the review for Cold Lazarus.

*looks around* Is sueKay still with us????

Anyway...I just sent hubs and daughter off to band event -time for me to curl up on the couch for a double feature!

[hlndncr]

Yeah, new ep means new sig and avi!

Course it's a sad one this time.

I was quite proud of my work on Charlie's headstone. I rendered it all from scratch. (The grassy hill is a stock photo.)

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

Cold Lazarus is definitely a sad episode. we see Jack come to terms with charlie's death. i remember watching it a while back and when jack and his "Double" are talking and he turns into charlie and as they are having their moment, i started getting teary eyed because I wonder what it would be like if i had died when i was charlie's age and how my father would've cope.

[brendini]

Yeah, new ep means new sig and avi!

Course it's a sad one this time.

I was quite proud of my work on Charlie's headstone. I rendered it all from scratch. (The grassy hill is a stock photo.)

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/...eHeadstone.jpg

Absolutely lovely, hlndncr! Wish I had the talent and patience to learn how to do this. And the sig is great, too.

[SaraBahama]

General Discussion
As some have pointed out, these early episodes can be very clunky. I don't really them bad for the most part, just very ham-handed, and this one is no different. There are a lot of things that make no sense, like Conner not going through the gate to get help when he had a clear chance to do so.

I know -I was yelling at him just a few minutes ago! Frakes says "GO" and he hangs around the DHD, waiting? Jump through the puddle already!! You can help the situation by reporting back to SGC and having them come in prepared!

And what's with the other member of SG-9 - Baker - who continues to follow Hansen even after he murders a teammate?

That didn't bother me as much -I reconciled it as Baker is enjoying the coattails of power and not really caring about his teammates one way or another. You could even fic him as being a bit of a prick prior to the events of this ep. Oh, the possibilities!

What really bothered me was that Hansen's team had been on the planet 5-6 weeks? Why? Had they been communicating regularly with the SGC like they do in later eps? If they were on a mercy mission, why were they apparently out of communication with the SGC? Why were the teams not rotated, since the environment seems particularly deadly? Why? Why? Why?

I didn't like that once again Sam has no restraint or discipline and goes off on her own when she sees something she doesn't like.

The insubordination was probably the thing that bothered me the most in the beginning of the ep -not just Sam, either. While it was a nice setup to Jack's quote of "Does it say colonel anywhere on my uniform?", it was blunt and confrontational -it showed a lack of trust in Jack's leadership, which can quickly breakdown the team. I think they could have written a better reason for Sam and Conner (was that his name?) to remain with SG-1 instead of going back. Even if Sam had to argue her point to stay, it could have been gentler (like she did in later eps)...but I know...it was early on and they were still figuring out the way the characters worked. *sigh*

Sam & Jack
We get a rather unexpected backstory about Sam when we learn that Hansen is her ex-fiance. I know that relationship is often interpreted as having been an abusive one. This is our first indication that generally speaking, Sam has terrible judgment in men. And I contend that her later relationship with is also based on a foundation that involves emotional blackmail and manipulation, which I consider abusive. So maybe this is a pattern with her. But in the case of Hansen I chalk it up to a young, bookish Sam who is swept away by the unexpected attention from a charming, charismatic man, but she eventually wised up and had enough strength and confidence to walk away.

It was definitely clunky, as most first season eps are, but it was among those I liked in those early seasons probably because it set a precedent for - I agree that there's probably a lot of 'bookish Sam' get swept away, but I think of all a daughter goes through - losing her mother and then having a father is often absent. That has to leave an emotional vacuum and no one, absolutely no one, is above an abusive relationship. I'm not sure I think it was physically abusive so much as emotionally so. The way he talks to her indicates as much.

I agree. The content of what Sam tells Daniel about their history, and the content of Sam's conversation with Jonas, don't seem to indicate a physical abuse. She even said that by the time she ran into him at the SGC, he seemed to have put himself back together.

Can you imagine this Sam...who has had to fend for herself (and probably her brother and possibly her dad) all these years after her mom's death suddenly having this 'charming' man try to dictate what she can do, where she can go, etc? (I'm imagining a slow fade from 'charming' to 'controlling'). Oh my...I can imagine that not sitting right with the spitfire that lives in that blonde head.

When Sam is talking with Daniel about Hansen and her fondness for the lunatic fringe we get a very telling cut away to Jack.
Actually I think this scene is more significant for what Daniel says. That the crazier they are the more stressful situations they are placed in. Remember Daniel knows that Jack was suicidal when he accepted that first mission through the gate and the gov't/AF knew it.

Very nice point. I was really focused on the way Daniel looked back over his shoulder at Jack as he said these lines. He has insights into Jack's character moreso than the other team members at this point in the story.

Is it Chapter 2 of her fic Embrace Me?

Yes! *that one*

Everybody -Go...read it! I think you will like.

I wish I knew how to convince MGM to do some more Stargate (srsly). WE NEED MORE SHIP!!!

Totally in agreement with that.

Yep. I would give it a chance...

[fems]

What really bothered me was that Hansen's team had been on the planet 5-6 weeks? Why? Had they been communicating regularly with the SGC like they do in later eps? If they were on a mercy mission, why were they apparently out of communication with the SGC? Why were the teams not rotated, since the environment seems particularly deadly? Why? Why? Why?

This was probably the first long-term off-world mission, so protocols hadn't been established yet. Plus, remember those budget comments later on in this season (and later ones as well) and how expensive it was to simply dial the gate? There's a good chance they figured this planet was safe (knowing about the people and the caves giving shelter/protection during the day) so they would only need minimal updates and maybe once a week the SGC would send in some supplies for the team.

As for not changing the teams; they only had 2 teams in the second episode and it was said they would form nine teams, so this was probably one of SG-9's first missions (if not the first) and the other teams were probably still learning the ropes as well. Might have seemed better not to upset the natives by changing teams on a weekly basis. I don't remember if the goal of SG-9's mission was ever revealed, but they apparently had a good reason for staying there for 6+ weeks and in the meantime the other 8 teams would have to recon other planets.

Not that I disagree with you or anything, but I think this was one of those early missions that made them realize they really needed to establish some SOPs. Hanson's team was probably chosen for this mission for a particular reason, going by his insanity and supposed expertise there's a chance long-term missions are his specialty, opposed to the other teams.

[Sparky She-Demon]

And I didn't make them Nolamom did! Here's a link for all the gifs. She's very talented

Thanks for the link! I've subscribed to the thread.

[Nynaeve506]

This was probably the first long-term off-world mission, so protocols hadn't been established yet. Plus, remember those budget comments later on in this season (and later ones as well) and how expensive it was to simply dial the gate? There's a good chance they figured this planet was safe (knowing about the people and the caves giving shelter/protection during the day) so they would only need minimal updates and maybe once a week the SGC would send in some supplies for the team.

As for not changing the teams; they only had 2 teams in the second episode and it was said they would form nine teams, so this was probably one of SG-9's first missions (if not the first) and the other teams were probably still learning the ropes as well. Might have seemed better not to upset the natives by changing teams on a weekly basis. I don't remember if the goal of SG-9's mission was ever revealed, but they apparently had a good reason for staying there for 6+ weeks and in the meantime the other 8 teams would have to recon other planets.

Not that I disagree with you or anything, but I think this was one of those early missions that made them realize they really needed to establish some SOPs. Hanson's team was probably chosen for this mission for a particular reason, going by his insanity and supposed expertise there's a chance long-term missions are his specialty, opposed to the other teams.

I would agree with this. Given that it probably costs a bazillion dollars to get the thing spinning (because spinning is so much cooler than *not* spinning) - and, given Kinsey's attitude towards the program later - they were most likely trying to keep costs low until they could demonstrate the value. Changing teams would have required more personnel training ($$), more people let in on a top secret program (not such a good idea if you don't know it's going to pan out), and constantly having to redevelop a relationship with the natives as fems said.

I agree with whoever (I forget who now and I'm too lazy to scroll back through) pointed out the insubordination to Jack. That absolutely should have never happened. You don't stick people in high stress without knowing they can follow orders. Chain of command has to be the first and foremost in everyone's mind.

[fems]

Oh yes, I agree with the insubordination too. Coming from Sam I can somewhat understand (she really wasn't all that respectful and/or sir-ing Jack every time she spoke in the early seasons) because she and Jack already have a somewhat established 2IC/CO-relationship so she might have felt comfortable enough to say it. Although, in my opinion, it shouldn't have happened the way it did, she could have phrased it much better (like a suggestion, rather than disobeying a direct order).

Connor, though, is really insubordinate. Not just to Jack but also to Sam, brushing past her and in how he talks to her even though she's a rank higher! But I guess we're supposed to forgive him and blame it on the situation he's been going through these past few weeks and having just lost a friend (Frakes, IIRC) at the hand of his crazy teammates.

Does anyone know exactly when the AF advisers were hired? Because you'd think they would catch something like this.

[Sparky She-Demon]

I heard somewhere that the Air Force actively started backing it in season 3.

[hlndncr]

I heard somewhere that the Air Force actively started backing it in season 3.

I thought it was Season 2, but it's certain they weren't around in Season 1. As I understand, the AF was reluctant to be associated with the show at first because TV often doesn't portray the military in a very flattering light. When they saw that the show was trying to respect the AF and the military were the good guys they came around. You see a marked difference later on when they had the AF helping them.