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    It was definitely clunky, as most first season eps are, but it was among those I liked in those early seasons probably because it set a precedent for - I agree that there's probably a lot of 'bookish Sam' get swept away, but I think of all a daughter goes through - losing her mother and then having a father is often absent. That has to leave an emotional vacuum and no one, absolutely no one, is above an abusive relationship. I'm not sure I think it was physically abusive so much as emotionally so. The way he talks to her indicates as much.

    My guess is that they were together and she was busy much of the time. Early Sam doesn't exude a lot of *natural* confidence. That first scene in the briefing room feels defensive and forced to me. I think as she goes through the gate, she grows up and gains that self-confidence we love...which I could go into about how that leads to a relationship with Pete.

    Basically this is my Sam interpretation:

    Sam grew up a USAF officer's daughter. She likely moved every 2-3 years of her life (I'm speaking from personal experience as a USAF officer's daughter...) - particularly if her father was really gunning for those stars on his shoulder. Given that he was a retired *general* when she was what, 26-27 means he was an older father to begin with (my dad enlisted at 18, went to OTS, and when he retired in 2003 was a Lt.Col. - I was 20, born when he was about 28).

    It's possible they did less moving in her teen years with him being a general, but I can guarantee he was absent *a lot*. Her mother dies, she likely has little, if any, female guidance because they probably don't live near family. She's a daddy's girl, and because the military has always been what she's known, she decides to join up (this is common for military brats - I nearly joined up myself because I was terrified of 'civilian' life - there was a lot my parents couldn't tell me because they'd never had to do it. Of my military brat friends I can name off at least three off the top of my head that joined the service).

    By the time she gets to college, she feels out of place, like she has most of her life - she's had a parent die, she's had to grow up faster. It's likely that she feels disconnected from her peers - and it's clear she's a freaking genius - so one more disconnect. The military gives her some ability to adjust - shared experiences with fellow officers.

    At some point she meets Hansen. Guys like this are charming, and, having been a braniac without roots for years, he makes her feel *connected*, special, he probably even takes a load off her shoulders that she's been carrying. She falls for him, not realizing he's a viper in disguise. She's tough though (because she's learned to take care of herself) and she breaks off the engagement.

    By the time she shows up at the SGC, she's confident in her smarts, but is still trying to figure out her place. I'm going to argue she might have even fallen for Jack because she has a few daddy issues that need to be worked out (hey, not a knock against her, but a man in authority who is inaccessible - sounds a little like Jacob to me).

    Flash forward to Pete. She figures out that she's been holding herself back to some extent - because of Jack for one thing, but also because military brats... well she's learned to be tough. To not make those emotional connections because they disappear *so fast* - if she moved even as half as often as I think she did, it was like dozens of people were dying on her repeatedly. Then she lost her mother. And she couldn't reach her father. No one comes out of that unscathed. No one.

    So she puts herself out there. Pete... Pete is an emotional connection. She's never in her life had the chance to connect long term to someone like that, so she probably thinks it'll get better. How good are you at gauging an emotional connection if all of yours have been consistently ripped away?

    That's what makes "Threads" so powerful. The eight years that she's had at the SGC - her long standing relationships with SG-1 - teach her how to be what she couldn't be when she started. It's likely that Daniel and Teal'c and Janet are the longest friendships she's ever had.

    She realizes she knows and that she's capable of giving more than what she does to Pete. That he can't give her what she needs and that he's not what she really wants. It's powerful because *Samantha Carter* finally knows who *Samantha Carter* is.

    And from there, when her and Jack get together, it's real and it's honest. She's able to give herself entirely.

    (My apologies if this is rambly. I'm tired, hungry, and I don't know that phrase all of this as well as it could be).

    Comment


      Great analysis!

      GW locked my fridge, but here's some shippy green:

      Comment


        No apologies needed -excellent perspective on Sam!

        (locked fridge, too): GREEN!
        sigpic
        sig by Ikorni

        "When Colonel Maybourne and yourself were stranded off world, Major Carter felt a similar sense of frustration. She despaired at the thought of never seeing you again." ~Teal'c
        "I didn't leave,because I'd have rather died myself,than lose Carter." ~Jack O'Neill


        SaraBahama FanFic; AO3

        Comment


          Originally posted by Nynaeve506 View Post
          It was definitely clunky, as most first season eps are, but it was among those I liked in those early seasons probably because it set a precedent for - I agree that there's probably a lot of 'bookish Sam' get swept away, but I think of all a daughter goes through - losing her mother and then having a father is often absent. That has to leave an emotional vacuum and no one, absolutely no one, is above an abusive relationship. I'm not sure I think it was physically abusive so much as emotionally so. The way he talks to her indicates as much.

          My guess is that they were together and she was busy much of the time. Early Sam doesn't exude a lot of *natural* confidence. That first scene in the briefing room feels defensive and forced to me. I think as she goes through the gate, she grows up and gains that self-confidence we love...which I could go into about how that leads to a relationship with Pete.

          Basically this is my Sam interpretation:

          Sam grew up a USAF officer's daughter. She likely moved every 2-3 years of her life (I'm speaking from personal experience as a USAF officer's daughter...) - particularly if her father was really gunning for those stars on his shoulder. Given that he was a retired *general* when she was what, 26-27 means he was an older father to begin with (my dad enlisted at 18, went to OTS, and when he retired in 2003 was a Lt.Col. - I was 20, born when he was about 28).

          It's possible they did less moving in her teen years with him being a general, but I can guarantee he was absent *a lot*. Her mother dies, she likely has little, if any, female guidance because they probably don't live near family. She's a daddy's girl, and because the military has always been what she's known, she decides to join up (this is common for military brats - I nearly joined up myself because I was terrified of 'civilian' life - there was a lot my parents couldn't tell me because they'd never had to do it. Of my military brat friends I can name off at least three off the top of my head that joined the service).

          By the time she gets to college, she feels out of place, like she has most of her life - she's had a parent die, she's had to grow up faster. It's likely that she feels disconnected from her peers - and it's clear she's a freaking genius - so one more disconnect. The military gives her some ability to adjust - shared experiences with fellow officers.

          At some point she meets Hansen. Guys like this are charming, and, having been a braniac without roots for years, he makes her feel *connected*, special, he probably even takes a load off her shoulders that she's been carrying. She falls for him, not realizing he's a viper in disguise. She's tough though (because she's learned to take care of herself) and she breaks off the engagement.

          By the time she shows up at the SGC, she's confident in her smarts, but is still trying to figure out her place. I'm going to argue she might have even fallen for Jack because she has a few daddy issues that need to be worked out (hey, not a knock against her, but a man in authority who is inaccessible - sounds a little like Jacob to me).

          Flash forward to Pete. She figures out that she's been holding herself back to some extent - because of Jack for one thing, but also because military brats... well she's learned to be tough. To not make those emotional connections because they disappear *so fast* - if she moved even as half as often as I think she did, it was like dozens of people were dying on her repeatedly. Then she lost her mother. And she couldn't reach her father. No one comes out of that unscathed. No one.

          So she puts herself out there. Pete... Pete is an emotional connection. She's never in her life had the chance to connect long term to someone like that, so she probably thinks it'll get better. How good are you at gauging an emotional connection if all of yours have been consistently ripped away?

          That's what makes "Threads" so powerful. The eight years that she's had at the SGC - her long standing relationships with SG-1 - teach her how to be what she couldn't be when she started. It's likely that Daniel and Teal'c and Janet are the longest friendships she's ever had.

          She realizes she knows and that she's capable of giving more than what she does to Pete. That he can't give her what she needs and that he's not what she really wants. It's powerful because *Samantha Carter* finally knows who *Samantha Carter* is.

          And from there, when her and Jack get together, it's real and it's honest. She's able to give herself entirely.

          (My apologies if this is rambly. I'm tired, hungry, and I don't know that phrase all of this as well as it could be).
          Wow that is an amazing post and I think very true to same character. I also think that is why after threads Sam appears a different character, happier, bubblier and much more fun, she has finally found her place with her man and her life and she is more relaxed because of it
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          Thanks to the wonderful Meredithe5 for the awesome sig

          Comment


            Originally posted by SaraBahama View Post
            ok...it's killing me. There is a fic that's set after this ep in which Sam is in the AFA chapel and she has the Bible that belonged to Jonas. Jack finds her there and a conversation ensues. It's a very reflective piece.

            I thought it was Pol's, but I just looked at Campfire and this is not the story that goes with the chapter for this ep.

            Ideas anyone?
            Is it Chapter 2 of her fic Embrace Me?
            Visit me all over the place! FFN | AO3 | My Website |Twitter |Tumblr

            Comment


              Originally posted by Nynaeve506 View Post
              Spoiler:
              It was definitely clunky, as most first season eps are, but it was among those I liked in those early seasons probably because it set a precedent for - I agree that there's probably a lot of 'bookish Sam' get swept away, but I think of all a daughter goes through - losing her mother and then having a father is often absent. That has to leave an emotional vacuum and no one, absolutely no one, is above an abusive relationship. I'm not sure I think it was physically abusive so much as emotionally so. The way he talks to her indicates as much.

              My guess is that they were together and she was busy much of the time. Early Sam doesn't exude a lot of *natural* confidence. That first scene in the briefing room feels defensive and forced to me. I think as she goes through the gate, she grows up and gains that self-confidence we love...which I could go into about how that leads to a relationship with Pete.

              Basically this is my Sam interpretation:

              Sam grew up a USAF officer's daughter. She likely moved every 2-3 years of her life (I'm speaking from personal experience as a USAF officer's daughter...) - particularly if her father was really gunning for those stars on his shoulder. Given that he was a retired *general* when she was what, 26-27 means he was an older father to begin with (my dad enlisted at 18, went to OTS, and when he retired in 2003 was a Lt.Col. - I was 20, born when he was about 28).

              It's possible they did less moving in her teen years with him being a general, but I can guarantee he was absent *a lot*. Her mother dies, she likely has little, if any, female guidance because they probably don't live near family. She's a daddy's girl, and because the military has always been what she's known, she decides to join up (this is common for military brats - I nearly joined up myself because I was terrified of 'civilian' life - there was a lot my parents couldn't tell me because they'd never had to do it. Of my military brat friends I can name off at least three off the top of my head that joined the service).

              By the time she gets to college, she feels out of place, like she has most of her life - she's had a parent die, she's had to grow up faster. It's likely that she feels disconnected from her peers - and it's clear she's a freaking genius - so one more disconnect. The military gives her some ability to adjust - shared experiences with fellow officers.

              At some point she meets Hansen. Guys like this are charming, and, having been a braniac without roots for years, he makes her feel *connected*, special, he probably even takes a load off her shoulders that she's been carrying. She falls for him, not realizing he's a viper in disguise. She's tough though (because she's learned to take care of herself) and she breaks off the engagement.

              By the time she shows up at the SGC, she's confident in her smarts, but is still trying to figure out her place. I'm going to argue she might have even fallen for Jack because she has a few daddy issues that need to be worked out (hey, not a knock against her, but a man in authority who is inaccessible - sounds a little like Jacob to me).

              Flash forward to Pete. She figures out that she's been holding herself back to some extent - because of Jack for one thing, but also because military brats... well she's learned to be tough. To not make those emotional connections because they disappear *so fast* - if she moved even as half as often as I think she did, it was like dozens of people were dying on her repeatedly. Then she lost her mother. And she couldn't reach her father. No one comes out of that unscathed. No one.

              So she puts herself out there. Pete... Pete is an emotional connection. She's never in her life had the chance to connect long term to someone like that, so she probably thinks it'll get better. How good are you at gauging an emotional connection if all of yours have been consistently ripped away?

              That's what makes "Threads" so powerful. The eight years that she's had at the SGC - her long standing relationships with SG-1 - teach her how to be what she couldn't be when she started. It's likely that Daniel and Teal'c and Janet are the longest friendships she's ever had.

              She realizes she knows and that she's capable of giving more than what she does to Pete. That he can't give her what she needs and that he's not what she really wants. It's powerful because *Samantha Carter* finally knows who *Samantha Carter* is.

              And from there, when her and Jack get together, it's real and it's honest. She's able to give herself entirely.

              (My apologies if this is rambly. I'm tired, hungry, and I don't know that phrase all of this as well as it could be).
              (Spoilered for space.)
              Personally, I think your analysis is spot-on. And speaking as someone who "lost" (through divorce) a parent at a young age (4 instead of 14), you CAN'T come through that unscathed. There's just no way. And when you add the family dynamic of the fighting that Jacob and Mark did, she had to feel like she was being pulled from both directions, and not being sure which way to choose.
              What you wrote just makes perfect sense to me, all the way down to the relationship with Pete, including the "authority figure" that Jack is to her. And actually, Hansen was probably the same thing for her, when you look at his age. (Seems to be about Jack's age, less promotions, though.)
              And it totally makes sense that it would take that long for her to figure out just who "Samantha Carter" is.

              Comment


                With us going back through these episodes, it's had me thinking about Sam's attitude at the beginning. I know AT has said that after the pilot (and she knew she'd been hired on for sure), she went to the writers and just told them to write Sam as a character, not as a woman. And I was thinking about why there's that defensive edge to her for several episodes, and I wondered why there was no change made. THEN I realized that they probably had the eps written already, and even though they probably could have, they didn't want to go back and do re-writes of those eps. Just an epiphany I had.
                Feel free to smack me upside the head, and I'll go back to my corner lol (I tell my boss something similar all the time. One of these days, she's going to do it! lol).

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Nynaeve506 View Post

                  Basically this is my Sam interpretation:

                  Sam grew up a USAF officer's daughter. She likely moved every 2-3 years of her life (I'm speaking from personal experience as a USAF officer's daughter...) - particularly if her father was really gunning for those stars on his shoulder. Given that he was a retired *general* when she was what, 26-27 means he was an older father to begin with (my dad enlisted at 18, went to OTS, and when he retired in 2003 was a Lt.Col. - I was 20, born when he was about 28).
                  I would just like to point out that in Secrets Sam was 29 or 32 (depending if you go by a DoB of 1968 or 1965) and Jacob wasn't retired yet. It was never made clear whether he'd retired by the time we see him again, in the hospital, two episodes later but considering his health... anyway, he then went on to become a liaison between the Tok'ra and Tauri so they probably managed to get the paperwork through by that time and from then on he was officially retired from the military, I guess.

                  Secrets:
                  JACOB
                  What's there to say about an old general waiting to retire?
                  Unmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
                  Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
                  On FFnet or AO3


                  My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories.

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                    Originally posted by fems View Post
                    I would just like to point out that in Secrets Sam was 29 or 32 (depending if you go by a DoB of 1968 or 1965) and Jacob wasn't retired yet. It was never made clear whether he'd retired by the time we see him again, in the hospital, two episodes later but considering his health... anyway, he then went on to become a liaison between the Tok'ra and Tauri so they probably managed to get the paperwork through by that time and from then on he was officially retired from the military, I guess.

                    Secrets:
                    JACOB
                    What's there to say about an old general waiting to retire?

                    Okay, so I'm off by a couple years, but it still puts him older as a father. I'd be inclined to go 1968 is Sam' birth year. My father was a captain at that age and he was just a bit older that the others in his grade. (He had just pinned on captain before my parents got pregnant with me). It still doesn't change the analysis

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by brendini View Post
                      (Spoilered for space.)
                      Personally, I think your analysis is spot-on. And speaking as someone who "lost" (through divorce) a parent at a young age (4 instead of 14), you CAN'T come through that unscathed. There's just no way. And when you add the family dynamic of the fighting that Jacob and Mark did, she had to feel like she was being pulled from both directions, and not being sure which way to choose.
                      What you wrote just makes perfect sense to me, all the way down to the relationship with Pete, including the "authority figure" that Jack is to her. And actually, Hansen was probably the same thing for her, when you look at his age. (Seems to be about Jack's age, less promotions, though.)
                      And it totally makes sense that it would take that long for her to figure out just who "Samantha Carter" is.
                      Nynaeve - great post! Can't GREEN ;(

                      Brendini, good insight about Hansen representing authority figure and now Jack. Thank goodness Hansen didn't make her stop looking for that type of guy *woohoo*. And thank goodness that crusty, antagonistic, tough-as-nails Jack O'Neill has that sweet gooey inside!
                      sigpicRamonaThePest (you know, Henry Huggins' friend)

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by RamonaThePest View Post
                        Nynaeve - great post! Can't GREEN ;(

                        Brendini, good insight about Hansen representing authority figure and now Jack. Thank goodness Hansen didn't make her stop looking for that type of guy *woohoo*. And thank goodness that crusty, antagonistic, tough-as-nails Jack O'Neill has that sweet gooey inside!
                        Yeah and we don't see Jack going off the reservation if people start thinking he's a god! Jack's also an upgrade in the looks department, but that's just me.

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                          Ain't that the truf!
                          sigpicRamonaThePest (you know, Henry Huggins' friend)

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                            What's your favorite way to see Jack dressed? I like it when he's uniform (dress blues) the most. Though there's that scene in "The Broca Divide"...
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                              To the SJ’s;
                              A few days ago I posted two comments on here which I never would have done under normal circumstances. On the night I posted on here I was ashamedly drunk after a night out with friends. My behaviour was appalling and I promise that it will never happen again. Please don’t judge other SD’s by my behaviour. I apologise for what I did and regret it immensely. Thank you for your time,
                              ShWeir.

                              Comment


                                Awesome participation this week guys!! I can't wait until the next episode... sorry about any confusion on when we're watching episodes. We wanted to start out slow and give everyone a chance to particpate and get used to the new rewatch. We'll take a poll before the next season to see how frequent we want the episode but we don't want it too slow that it takes us years to get through them all

                                Now onto my two cents about the latest episode... while The First Commandment wasn't an all time favorite of mine I did enjoy this episode. I love that we get to see another side of Captain "Doctor" Samantha Carter. It's true we did get to see her in that blue dress in Emancipation *who could forget that* but until now Sam's personal life has remained a bit of a mystery. I love this part of the episode:


                                borrowed from Hlndncr

                                JACKSON: They were probably instructed just to take Conner. Send us a message that Hanson's in Control.

                                CARTER: Sounds familure.

                                JACKSON: Witch part?

                                CARTER: He likes control.

                                JACKSON: Oh. What did you see in him?

                                CARTER: I don't know. I guess I've always had a soft spot for the lunatic fringe. he was...he was charming.

                                JACKSON: That's good, charming is good.

                                CARTER: I don't no. I should be more surprised by this then I am, but I'm not. You know, he had this in him, Daniel. Too many years of Black Ops.

                                JACKSON: Well that's typical of are government's evaluation of solders. The crazier they are, the more extreme situation they seem to be put in to.

                                I love the look an Jack's face has he tries to appear uninterested by Daniel and Sam's conversation about her ex and his years in black ops. Anyone see a connection to another man in her life?

                                It was also interesting to see Sam act spontaneous and a little reckless when she decided to run in without talking to O'Neill when she saw a worker getting mistreated. Usually Sam is meticulous with her planning before taking action, unlike her CO.

                                Ok, now I'm off to create something shippy in honor of all those kisses everyone's been posting on the appreciation thread
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