Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

makes you wonder if she still wears that little number to bed every once and a while.

[RamonaThePest]

Don't think too much? Really?? You know this fangirl's brain does not operate like that!

But I do respect your ratings. Just wanted to share my interpretations for the sake of semantics.

I hope there aren't many episodes where we would be forced to waffle between tedious and boring anyway. Yikes!

I was reading what you guys wrote and thinking Why do they hate "The Enemy Within so much?. Also the "boring vs tedious" discussion. I can't think f one episode that is boring/tedious. And then I thought back to my first few years viewing SG1. There were episodes I truly hated. But after multiple rewatches over the years, I learned to appreciate them. "One False Step" being an example. I hated it, but now, I look at the team dynamics:

1) Teal'c's trust in Daniel's wisdom to watch the plant because if Daniel thinks something's important, then it must be.

2). Jack and Daniel's opinions of each other at that point in time being pushed to the forefront

3) The foreshadowing/continuity of the episode 1969 in Sam's injury to her hand

4) Teal'c supporting O'Neill as he stumbles to his knees and their comraderie as they continue on in companionable silence

5) Sam and Janet working together to figure it out

6) Daniel's literal "flightiness" played out as he animates a UAV (do I have the iniial right?)

I would say that once you've seen every episode about 5 times and scrutinized every drop of actual and possible Ship in them, subsequent viewings bring a bigger appreciation for the rest of the show - even the alien guest stars' characters. At least, that's what happened to me anyways.

[fems]

I disagree. Hammond might have a higher rank, but in her primative state she wouldn't be thinking of rank but strength. Even though Hammond is in charge Jack is clearly younger and stronger. In a primative society he would win a challenge for leadership and clearly produce the better off-spring.

Teal'c is stronger than Jack but he is older, in a servile position, and also former enemy. Although Sam would normally trust him, in a primative frame of mind she might look upon him with suspicion.

Jack is clearly the best choice.

. . . . and Jack is hot!

Except they didn't know Teal'c was that old at the time, as far as I know. His age had never been mentioned up until that time. But I agree that she wouldn't pick him in her primitive mind since he's different (not human, but Jaffa) so they might not even be compatible. Plus knowing he has a Goa'uld (=enemy) in his pouch probably isn't very reassuring either, especially not when she'd jump and straddle him the way she did Jack.

[hlndncr]

I was reading what you guys wrote and thinking Why do they hate "The Enemy Within so much?. Also the "boring vs tedious" discussion. I can't think f one episode that is boring/tedious. And then I thought back to my first few years viewing SG1. There were episodes I truly hated. But after multiple rewatches over the years, I learned to appreciate them. "One False Step" being an example. I hated it, but now, I look at the team dynamics:

1) Teal'c's trust in Daniel's wisdom to watch the plant because if Daniel thinks something's important, then it must be.

2). Jack and Daniel's opinions of each other at that point in time being pushed to the forefront

3) The foreshadowing/continuity of the episode 1969 in Sam's injury to her hand

4) Teal'c supporting O'Neill as he stumbles to his knees and their comraderie as they continue on in companionable silence

5) Sam and Janet working together to figure it out

6) Daniel's literal "flightiness" played out as he animates a UAV (do I have the iniial right?)

I would say that once you've seen every episode about 5 times and scrutinized every drop of actual and possible Ship in them, subsequent viewings bring a bigger appreciation for the rest of the show - even the alien guest stars' characters. At least, that's what happened to me anyways.

I think that's a great attitude, but I just can't muster it. I still hate One False Step.

After seeing these eps countless times I know exactly what I like and what I don't like. There are points of value for most (if not all) of them yes, but do I want to watch some of these episodes again, no. That's just MHO.

[fems]

I think that's a great attitude, but I just can't muster it. I still hate One False Step.

After seeing these eps countless times I know exactly what I like and what I don't like. There are points of value for most (if not all) of them yes, but do I want to watch some of these episodes again, no. That's just MHO.

It's pretty much the same to me for certain episodes. I can't say I've seen everything countless of times but I do remember almost everything that happens, so there aren't really any more surprises for me upon a rewatch and thus it takes effort to sit through the boring ones. Usually I just skip them or fast forward through the boring scenes. Character development is great and there are also some things one must know to understand a story arc, but if you already know those things from previous times you've watched the episode then there really isn't anything to stop me from skipping it.

Plus, there are a few episodes I don't like to watch (like Chimera for obvious reasons) but need to know about/incorporate into fanfic, so I just check the transcripts. At those times I can usually recall how the scene played out, so I don't feel the need to rewatch the episodes later on.

[josiane]

Hi everyone! *looks around* Wow it's been a long time since I've been in the ship threads, lots of new faces *waves*

Meredith told me you'd kicked off the rewatch again so I thought I'd stick my head in to see how you were all getting on Not sure I quite have the time or the energy to go through the whole thing in so much depth again (seriously, check back the last time, I discussed the living heck out of it Those of you who were around the last time may remember I wrote two absolute theses on Grace and Threads in particular), but I'll try and keep an eye and drop my two penn'orth in from time to time

Having said that, I always find the early episodes somewhat tricky to talk about. It took me a while to warm up to the ship when I first watched them, and even now that I can watch back and see all those lovely little hints of what was to come I can't entirely shake the fact that I don't particularly enjoy the way Sam is written at first. COTG is a fantastic introduction to the show, but I hate her first scene (yes, even with that line removed in the reedited one) - don't get me wrong, I love the way she and Jack size each other up, but ugh she comes in as such a one-dimensional character. She's all Token Feisty Attractive Female Lead and Look At Me I'm Such A Feminist I'm As Good As Any Man. And I say this as a HUGE Sam fan. I adore her to pieces, but it takes a few episodes for the writers to settle down with her and for Amanda to let go of the broad strokes and be able to bring through the depths to the character and the nuances that make her so interesting and believable and sympathetic, IMO. "You really will like me once you get to know me" indeed!

Likewise not really all that much of a fan of Broca Divide and the kiss, while hot, just strikes me as being really rather cliched - get a few episodes in and then have your two leads make out just to plant the idea that they're attracted to one another. Which yes, sure, they are, but it's just so un-subtle

I guess that's the issue for me - I find the early episodes somewhat lacking in subtlety when it comes to both Sam and to the ship, in complete contrast to how they are both handled once the show hits its stride when they are sublime in their subtlety and nuance. But, y'know, early days and all that I can forgive them, and it is laying the foundations (somewhat clumsily) for a lot of what makes up the complexities of both Sam's character and her relationship with Jack over the coming seasons.

[Jolinar_of_Malkshur]

A little ficlet for Emancipation:

Spoiler:

He had referred to her by many names and titles over the years.

The first time he addressed her as “Doctor,” to which she promptly corrected him. “It is appropriate to refer to a person by their rank, not their salutation. You should call me ‘Captain’, not ‘Doctor’.”

As they developed a healthy respect for one another as teammates and even adopted a cordial yet professional friendship he interspersed an occasional “Sam” with his more usual “Captain” when speaking to her.

Time passed and they grew closer. Forbidden feelings began to surface and informal forms of address gradually submerged until it faded from their vocabulary altogether. He had not called her Sam in many years.

He was the first to give voice to her advancements. Standing on the ramp leading to the Stargate, presenting a proper salute—so rare for him—with a crisp, “Well done, Major,” and later looking upon her with unconcealed adoration as he presented her to the entire command as “Lieutenant Colonel Samantha Carter.”

Mostly she was just “Carter” to him. That formal yet familiar address carried with it all they were to one another, all they wished they could be. She loved it when he called her “Carter,” whether it was to solicit her knowledge, cut off her ramblings, call for back up or just let her know he was there.

But there was one name she had only heard him give voice to once. He threw it at her teasingly early on in their adventures when she stood in the center of a yurt wearing an exotic blue dress. Yet, there was something in the way those syllables had rolled from his tongue, combined with the look in his tawny eyes that had sealed it in her memory and impressed it upon her fantasies.

Eight years later, with all enemies vanquished and all barriers demolished she heard him say it once again. This time he whispered it to her, slow and breathless as he caressed her bare skin. Filled with overwhelming passion and pure love she opened herself to him fully and they became one as never before with her name falling from his lips.

“Samantha.”

Ooh, loved it!

I can't believe I'm already behind in the rewatch, just a few eps in! I'll be watching both Emancipation and The Broca Divide in the next couple of days and posting links to my ramblings on LJ as usual. Just about caught up with reading everyone's chatter about the eps on here (I won't reply to everything that caught my attention though as there's quite a bit after a week away from here!).

I did find the little talk about how Sam and Jack address each other (names-wise) rather interesting though, as it's something that grabs my attention every now and then in the show. I agree with the few that said Jack would most likely still call Sam 'Carter' even if they are married. I too see it as rather affectionate, almost like his personal pet name for her I guess lol.

[SaraBahama]

UhSir's vid (has several Broca scenes):

[meredithe5]

UhSir's vid (has several Broca scenes):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nUH68Rpf28&feature=email&email=comment_reply_received

Nice Vid

[RamonaThePest]

It's pretty much the same to me for certain episodes. I can't say I've seen everything countless of times but I do remember almost everything that happens, so there aren't really any more surprises for me upon a rewatch and thus it takes effort to sit through the boring ones. Usually I just skip them or fast forward through the boring scenes. Character development is great and there are also some things one must know to understand a story arc, but if you already know those things from previous times you've watched the episode then there really isn't anything to stop me from skipping it.

Plus, there are a few episodes I don't like to watch (like Chimera for obvious reasons) but need to know about/incorporate into fanfic, so I just check the transcripts. At those times I can usually recall how the scene played out, so I don't feel the need to rewatch the episodes later on.

My original re-watching days came when Sci-Fi channel aired re-runs every weekday and before I owned the disks and before DVRs became popular. If I could have, I probably would have fastforwarded through the "boring" parts as well. But since I was forced to "suffer" through the "boring" parts, I came to realize that I really have found all parts of Stargate SG-1 to be the best sci-fi out there and no other show can quite capture the feel of it (including its spin-offs). I just think (of course, just MHO) you guys are missing a lot by not "suffering" through the "boring" bits again.

[Lucycat]

A little ficlet for Emancipation:

Spoiler:

He had referred to her by many names and titles over the years.

“Samantha.”

I need a cold shower after reading that fic! Very nice, hlndncr!

[SaraBahama]

Hi everyone! *looks around* Wow it's been a long time since I've been in the ship threads, lots of new faces *waves*

Meredith told me you'd kicked off the rewatch again so I thought I'd stick my head in to see how you were all getting on Not sure I quite have the time or the energy to go through the whole thing in so much depth again (seriously, check back the last time, I discussed the living heck out of it Those of you who were around the last time may remember I wrote two absolute theses on Grace and Threads in particular), but I'll try and keep an eye and drop my two penn'orth in from time to time

Hey...welcome back! We will take any level of participation you are willing to give. I was concerned that the 'old guard' were gone, never to return.

I want you to be proud of the newbies: meredithe and others had the idea and organized this newest rewatch! It gives late comers to the franchise the opportunity to participate and share ideas and thoughts. I actually only watched the series in full in 2011 -only previously catching the occasional rerun of season 3 or 4.

I understand what you are saying about the clumsiness of the early seasons, but even though it's there, I tend to zone out to the actors and the crew and I see what they were intending. It seems like a very Pollyana way of looking at it, but the awkwardness fades into the background for me. I am glad they improved, and the subtlety was perfected -if it hadn't been, perhaps I would be less willing to look at the early seasons this way.

Even with the Broca kiss -I never saw it as TPTB having their two leads kiss and introducing the idea of sexual tension. Stuff I've read indicates that they didn't put too much thought into a S/J 'thing' until Solitudes. I just saw it as team members, under the influence of an alien virus, falling into a rather awkward situation. I saw the characters rather than the RL behind the scenes motivations.

The whole thing is new and shiny at this point and I was holding my breath to see what the next mission would be -what culture, planet, history would they encounter, and what aspect of the character would emerge and what would happen to deepen and broaden their interpersonal relationships in general. *realizes I'm gushing...stopping now. Awkwardly looks around.*

[brendini]

I was watching "Proving Ground" today, and was wondering about the scene in the mess with Jack and Sam. I just wonder what would have happened if Sam hadn't decided Jack was being "difficult" and gone home. Any thoughts?

[SGSuzi]

I was watching "Proving Ground" today, and was wondering about the scene in the mess with Jack and Sam. I just wonder what would have happened if Sam hadn't decided Jack was being "difficult" and gone home. Any thoughts?

you know i dont even remember that episode or that scene :O

[RamonaThePest]

Hey...welcome back! We will take any level of participation you are willing to give. I was concerned that the 'old guard' were gone, never to return.

I want you to be proud of the newbies: meredithe and others had the idea and organized this newest rewatch! It gives late comers to the franchise the opportunity to participate and share ideas and thoughts. I actually only watched the series in full in 2011 -only previously catching the occasional rerun of season 3 or 4.

I understand what you are saying about the clumsiness of the early seasons, but even though it's there, I tend to zone out to the actors and the crew and I see what they were intending. It seems like a very Pollyana way of looking at it, but the awkwardness fades into the background for me. I am glad they improved, and the subtlety was perfected -if it hadn't been, perhaps I would be less willing to look at the early seasons this way.

Even with the Broca kiss -I never saw it as TPTB having their two leads kiss and introducing the idea of sexual tension. Stuff I've read indicates that they didn't put too much thought into a S/J 'thing' until Solitudes. I just saw it as team members, under the influence of an alien virus, falling into a rather awkward situation. I saw the characters rather than the RL behind the scenes motivations.

The whole thing is new and shiny at this point and I was holding my breath to see what the next mission would be -what culture, planet, history would they encounter, and what aspect of the character would emerge and what would happen to deepen and broaden their interpersonal relationships in general. *realizes I'm gushing...stopping now. Awkwardly looks around.*

It's funny that most shippers view Broca Divide this way and I agree with them. (I'm basing this on having read opinions on these boards since 2005.) Although Broca Divide as provided a basis for tons of fanfiction and it's hawt to watch the scenes of them in the "clutch" usually the fanfiction involes a future time that remnants of the virus re-emerge. While the Broca Divide scene is hawt, it's because the actors are hawt but no one points to it as having any emotional depth - it's just what Janet called it - hunter-gatherer mate choosing instincts.