Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[meredithe5]

Thought I'd share a few more banners before the next episode

made by Regularamanda






Made by JasminaGo

Also wanted to share a few tag fics:

Aftershocks 1 by Rachel500 Chapter 2
Campfires Season 1 by Pol Chapter 2
And of course Hlndncr's drabble

Spoiler:

Sam was humiliated.

She had been taken hostage by Kawalsky, knocked senseless in the elevator, and rescued by the Colonel. Yes, Kawalsky was being controlled by an infant Goa’uld that gave him an enormous boost of strength, and Sam had done her best to stop him, but she still hated how the whole thing made her look weak and ineffective.

Sam sat in the briefing room staring straight ahead, trying not to look at the Colonel beside her while they waited for the briefing to begin. She could just imagine what he must be thinking. When she first entered this room she had challenged him and insisted that she could handle anything he could handle. Now she was concerned he might use this incident as an excuse to pull her off his team.

Everyone around the table stood when General Hammond entered the room. As Sam resumed her seat, she felt the Colonel’s hand on her arm. Turning toward him he whispered, “Good to have you back, Captain.” He smiled and she saw the sincerity in his eyes. She smiled lightly and turning her attention back to the General she considered that perhaps there was more to this new CO then she had previously considered and she just might like knowing him better.

If anyone has any more fics or vids feel free to recommend

[brendini]

hedwig pointed out to me that it was about 4 years prior when they were captured in "Jolinar's Memories" & "The Devil You Know." Perhaps she meant that 4 years? Or maybe it was just an error.

I've always looked at it as 4 years since when he had cancer, before Selmak. JMHO

[fems]

I've always looked at it as 4 years since when he had cancer, before Selmak. JMHO

Yes, but that was in season 2, while Jacob dies at the end of season 8. So, technically, that should have been about six years, rather than the four mentioned. Hence everyone's confusion.

[Jolinar_of_Malkshur]

I've finally landed a job this week after many months of unemployment, so it's kept me very busy! But I found time to watch the second ep of the rewatch just in time, and just like last week, here are my ramblings on the episode over at my LJ:

The Enemy Within

Apologies if there are any typos, I've typed this up at 2am so may have missed one or two

[meredithe5]

I've finally landed a job this week after many months of unemployment, so it's kept me very busy! But I found time to watch the second ep of the rewatch just in time, and just like last week, here are my ramblings on the episode over at my LJ:

The Enemy Within

Apologies if there are any typos, I've typed this up at 2am so may have missed one or two

Congrats on the job and I loved the review

After reading a recommendation on the Sam/Jack fic rec forum I noticed an interesting AU tag fic for this episode by Skydiver.

The Enemy's Outside- An alternate ending to The Enemy Within, what if Sam and Kawalsky made it to the surface.

It's a short fic but it's interesting. I'm loving all of her stories

[hedwig]

Congrats on the job and I loved the review

After reading a recommendation on the Sam/Jack fic rec forum I noticed an interesting AU tag fic for this episode by Skydiver.

The Enemy's Outside- An alternate ending to The Enemy Within, what if Sam and Kawalsky made it to the surface.

It's a short fic but it's interesting. I'm loving all of her stories

I remember that one. I agree, it was quite good.

[SGSuzi]

I've finally landed a job this week after many months of unemployment, so it's kept me very busy! But I found time to watch the second ep of the rewatch just in time, and just like last week, here are my ramblings on the episode over at my LJ:

The Enemy Within

Apologies if there are any typos, I've typed this up at 2am so may have missed one or two

Lovely review again , Agree with all your pointers

[selene0789]

Hee hee! I'm reading "The Enemy's Outside" right now, before I'd even seen the rec. I just posted a link to another fic of Sky's in the Fic Rec thread... I've recently discovered her list of works on jackfic, so I'm steadily working my way through them-- not the best idea, when I'm supposed to be writing my own stuff, but totally worth it! She's amazing!!

Thank you, Sky, for providing me endless entertainment for my reading enjoyment.

[Jolinar_of_Malkshur]

Congrats on the job and I loved the review

After reading a recommendation on the Sam/Jack fic rec forum I noticed an interesting AU tag fic for this episode by Skydiver.

The Enemy's Outside- An alternate ending to The Enemy Within, what if Sam and Kawalsky made it to the surface.

It's a short fic but it's interesting. I'm loving all of her stories

Thank you Glad you enjoyed the review.

And thank you for the link to the fic, will definitely give that one a read - my favourite kinds of fic are the ones that tie directly into episodes in some way, it's why I love Pol's Campfires

Lovely review again , Agree with all your pointers

Thank you, I'm glad you liked it

[meredithe5]

Hee hee! I'm reading "The Enemy's Outside" right now, before I'd even seen the rec. I just posted a link to another fic of Sky's in the Fic Rec thread... I've recently discovered her list of works on jackfic, so I'm steadily working my way through them-- not the best idea, when I'm supposed to be writing my own stuff, but totally worth it! She's amazing!!

Thank you, Sky, for providing me endless entertainment for my reading enjoyment.

LOL that's what gave me the idea. I saw the rec which took me to her site and I discovered all of her fics She's got a lot of AU tag fics which are really good. I've been slowly making my way through them all.

[SaraBahama]

Sorry I'm behind...crazy week! I promise I'll have the review posted before 9pm EST. Thx.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

Sorry I'm behind...crazy week! I promise I'll have the review posted before 9pm EST. Thx.

it's okay i haven't even started on mine yet.

[SaraBahama]

Umm...I'm writing like crazy...give me 15-20 more minutes?

[SaraBahama]

EMANCIPATION

Synopsis:

On the seemingly peaceful planet of Simarka, the team encounters a race of Mongol-like Humans whose women have no rights whatsoever. Things turn bad when the team realizes Captain Samantha Carter has been kidnapped and sold to an enemy tribe, led by Turghan. (Synopsis by Stargate Wiki).

Favorite Lines:

CARTER: In my world, I am a warrior and a scholar; I do the work of men.

CARTER: What a relief. I have never been so happy to see you guys.
O'NEILL: Oh, sure you have! Remember that time on P3X-595?
O'NEILL: You drank that stuff that made you take off…
CARTER: Ahem. We won't get into that now.

O'NEILL: Damn. Guess I'm going to have to cancel that Oprah interview.
TEAL'C: What is an Oprah?


Favorite Scene:

There are several that qualify as a favorite scene for me: the ‘blue dress’ scene at the beginning, the hand to hand combat with Turghan, and the scene where Sam tells Turghan that she is not what he expects her to be: she does “the work of men”.

But I think that the winner for me is the ‘blue dress’ scene:

CARTER: Daniel, find me an anthropologist that dresses like this and I will eat this headdress.
<snipped>
O'NEILL: I don't know. It…it kind of works for me. I, uh…
DANIEL: It's, it's you, it's…
O'NEILL: …you.
DANIEL: Definitely you.


General Review/Analysis:

Cliché.

…that’s what Jack would say, and we know how Jack feels about clichés.

I’ve heard it said before that the early episodes have heavy-handed moral messages, similar to early Star Trek. This tendency improved over the seasons until the messages were delivered with an understated grace. Don’t misunderstand, I like this episode –if I didn’t I would never have volunteered to write the review.

From the outset, Carter is placed in a defensive position –Abu greets her appearance with horror, even though she has just saved him from a terrible death, his tribal brothers draw weapons on her with clear intent to kill, Abu’s father seems to agree with the general opinion, she gets chastised for her choice of dress, forced to wear restrictive, uncomfortable clothing and her freedom of movement revoked. She is placed in a position lower than her teammates and given no choice but to accept it.

It’s interesting to note that her teammates have not made this easier on her: her suggestion that they return home is overridden by Daniel, who assures her that things will be ok if they follow the customs, the restrictions to travel and dress are treated lightly by Jack, who takes the opportunity to tease her a bit, and Teal’c…well –Teal’c doesn’t say much. They show poor judgment in leaving her alone at night in an environment that is obviously hostile to women: a choice that they will shortly regret.

To add insult to injury, the young man she just helped rescue treats her as nothing more than currency to buy the deepest desire of his heart. The buyer is worse still –he views women as less than his livestock –a pretty diversion for his personal pleasure.

Sam gets to see the treatment of women from behind the scenes of Turghan’s camp: women do as they are told and accept their lot in life; disobedient women are punished and Turghan (and other men) decide what qualifies as disobedience (open opposition to the men qualifies as a punishable offense).

When the rest of the team realizes that Sam is gone, all joviality evaporates…they are immediately on mission to find her and bring her back.

Sam does not allow this to change who she is: she shows concern for the wife and daughter of Turghan (in some ways more concern than Turghan ever shows), and she forgives Abu for his actions –she realizes he is desperately in love. She offers herself in place of Turghan’s wife when he threatens a savage beating. Her statement to Turghan (“I have friends who will come for me”), and lack of surprise at seeing her team appear in the enemy camp shows that she never doubted that they would come for her. Even after she is rescued, she is the first to suggest that they have to go back to rescue Turghan’s daughter from stoning –she is unwilling to allow the girl to die because of her choices, and she argues with her CO, quoting the Special Forces motto to him:

CARTER: "De Opresso Liber." To free from oppression, Special Forces motto.
O'NEILL: I know what it is. That's our world, this is theirs.

She doesn’t back down and even places herself in harm’s way by accepting the challenge to hand-to-hand combat.

The fight scene gives us the first opportunity to see Sam’s ability to hold her own in a physical confrontation –something that was needed since the last time we saw her in a similar situation, Kawalsky knocked her unconscious. Sam’s success showed that she is not a damsel in need of rescue (it was good for TPTB to establish this early on, IMO). And while taking Turghan’s life must have crossed her mind, Sam showed great restraint in how she ended the fight.

The legacy that Sam leaves behind is that the Shavadai women will no longer be kept apart and veiled –they will walk free in their community: “This is how you will be remembered, Carter.” (this touched me more on this rewatch than it did previously).

Sam and Jack

I know it has been said, but these are the early years –they are so free in these eps. The angst of later seasons is barely a shadow on the horizon and the current moments have bloomed from the tense initial confrontation to a relaxed, gentle camaraderie. There’s even teasing here.

When all three guys see Sam in a dress, it is a wonderful, laughable moment –their mouths are literally hanging open (“Sam’s a GIRL!!”), but Jack has to linger after the others have left and he throws in the last jibe: “you look great”, which is delivered in a deeper, less teasing tone of voice that seems genuine.

When they go to rescue Sam and debate whether to go into the enemy camp immediately or wait until morning, and it becomes apparent that if they wait, Turghan will rape Sam, Jack’s tense facial expression and “Oh, there’s no way in hell!” speaks volumes.

The confidence he shows in her when she is preparing for the fight with Turghan is evidence of how far they’ve come from that initial meeting –there is no snarkiness, no bite in his words to her…he trusts her and her abilities. When he sees that the fight is actually mortal combat, he moves to intervene and is held back only by a knife to the throat (and even then he keeps a finger on the trigger of his gun, ready to act if needed.

Overall, the level of shipiness is really in the eye of the beholder: there are subtle, complex layers of feelings at work –the camaraderie of soldiers serving together as a unit, friendships that are growing and developing, and under it all, something more not yet fully realized.

I have said before that I think Jack fell first; this seems to be a point at which he realizes that there is more to the young captain than an able soldier –he has been made aware that she is also a woman…and a beautiful one at that.

Sam’s feelings are more veiled, or perhaps less explored –Jack is someone she admires as a man and a leader, and this episode shows that he is a man worthy of her loyalty and trust, but I think she comes to realize much later that her feelings are deeper and more complex than she had imagined.


Edit Note: I failed to note that I really like Soon-Tek Oh's portrayal as Moughal -while constrained to abide by the laws of the land, he does not agree with them. He believes times are changing and embraces those changes. He has only one wife, a fact that he admits to Daniel that his people see as a sign of weakness. When Daniel asks if it is because he loves his wife, he smiles a knowing, gentle smile. He also uses Sam's victory as an opportunity to introduce positive change among his people.

[SaraBahama]

I am apparently really tired:

I forgot to say that one of the things I really like about the ep was the choice of a Mongol culture. I really loved the early eps for exploring different cultures and inventing the storylines of how and why they were transplanted from Earth to their new planets.

I think the Shavadai were probably one of the most original ideas I remember seeing.

We were never shown what Goa'uld took them from Earth, but we got to see how their culture remained intact.