Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[SaraBahama]

Is it the fans who groan at the reproductive organs line? Or is it the writers who decided that in the wake of shows like BSG, it suddenly wasn't sophisticated enough? I LOVE that line and I thought Sam was pretty tough delivering it.

The groans I've heard are here on GW (and I think Sam herself says in Moebius "Who talks like that?" -more knowledgable souls, correct me if I'm wrong). I always liked the spunk it conveyed.

It was a great place to start with her character. She was a strong determined woman but she had a chip on her shoulder. It was understandable though because there weren't a lot of women in the military during that time period, especially beautiful and intelligent women. She grew as a character throughout the series to the point where her actions spoke for her so she had nothing to prove to anyone.

I love comparing this scene with some of the scenes in "Prodigy" with Jennifer Hailey: Hailey is the defensive one...Sam has nothing to prove -she's already trusted. It's awesome.

I'm sure it's been debated here in the past but, at what episode (point in time) do you think Jack fell in love with Sam? And vice versa?

I personally think Jack fell in love with her when he saw her willing to sacrifice her life for a child (Cassie, who was a stranger to them). I'm not sure for Sam since there was always some hero worship there. When did hers become real - I can't pick a moment. Can you?

I always felt like Jack knew he was falling for her much earlier on than Sam did. I think that all the way back to 'Politics' in S1 when Daniel reports that Alt!Jack and Alt!Sam were engaged and Jack is incredulous and Sam says "It's theoretically possible" (about alternate reality...but Jack totally misinterprets her). I think this starts Jack to thinking about Sam as someone he could have a personal relationship with -he's completely shaken by the thought, but it gets him THINKING.

Throughout S2 there is an evolution for him where he already cares for her as a teammate and a friend, but something else is developing: I don't think that the hug in the end of 'Into the Fire' is an automatic, unconcious, just to warm up hug -he thought for a moment that Hathor had killed her! He's great at denial, though...so until he says it out loud in D&C, he's just doing his best to ignore the truth, even though he can't escape it.

I don't think that Sam truly realized her feelings in that episode, but for me 100 days it's very important in the development of her love for Jack. But denial is way too common for Sam...

I'm with XF: I think Sam's feelings develop equally as subtley -I think '100 Days' made her realize how far she had fallen. (Denial is common for Jack, too).

Another thing: (I'll spoiler this, just because it's not really S/J)

Spoiler:

In "Cold Lazarus", Sam says she doesn't get to see her brother and his family often enough. But then in "Seth" (I think), she says she hasn't seen Mark in years. Hmmm....might have to look at who the writers were on those particular eps.

I don't know why, but in my mind I reconciled it as: Sam's sister in law is the peace maker -Mark is still not talking to her, but she want's Mark's family in her children's lives. So it's the sister in law that makes sure Sam sees the kids. I always imagined Mark making himself scarce during Sam's visits.

So both are true -she has seen the kids, but not her brother.

It may sound petty, but I have seen similar things in RL.

And, as I said, this was how my brain reconciled the apparent conflict (no idea if there really is a resolution to that writing.

[meredithe5]

So I know I'm not supposed to post my review until tomorrow but SGSuzi and I just finished rewatching the episode and I was in a shippy mood and couldn't resist.

Lovely banner created by Ikorni

Summary

While Stargate Command and the military decide Teal'c's fate, unbeknownst to the team, a nearly mature Goa'uld is slowly taking control of Major Charles Kawalsky, and with little time remaining, the only way to save him is by careful surgery to remove it.

Favorite Scene

I have a few favorite scenes in this episode. I think the reason that this show has remained popular is that no matter how many times you watch it you find new moments and interactions between the characters that make you fall even more in love with the show.

I loved the banter in the beginning of the episode between Kawalsky and Jack where they joke over who's going to which planet. The show is about discovering new worlds, technology, and protecting their home from a race of evil aliens yet they add humor into the show that makes the mood lighter and fun to watch.

I also loved the scene at the end where Sam proves to Daniel that part of the host remains when a Gould takes over. It's the first time they've realized this and it gives Daniel hope that he'll be able to save his wife Sha're.

Favorite Dialogue

: So this iris is gonna hold right?
: Pure titanium. Less than three micrometers from the event horizon. It won't even allow matter to fully reintegrate.
: So this iris is gonna hold, right?
: If it doesn't, the failsafe device will detonate, this whole mountain will vaporize and there'll be nothing to worry about.
: Ah. Good, I feel much better.

and

Kennedy: With respect General, I feel I should take this to my superiors.
:Me, I'll probably just call the President and get approval right from the horse's mouth.

I loved this moment! If you watch closely you'll notice the grins on SG1's faces at his response.

General Discussion

This episode had two very important plotlines. The SGC's first encounter with a Gould infesting one of their own and the military deciding on Teal'cs fate. While this episode was a little slow in my opinion, it contained a lot of critical information and did a lot of foreshadowing for future events. In the first episode we saw Sha're and Skaara being taken over by Gould but they survived the process, and SG1 remained hopeful that they'd be able to save their friends.

This is the first time the SGC deals personally with a Gould and attempts to save someone that's been infested. What happened to Kawalsky sets the tone for the events In the Line of Duty where Sam is taken over by Jolinar. This episode proved that being taken over by a Gould can not only be dangerous, but deadly. It really made Sam's situation seem more life threatening and hopeless.

For the first time we also get to see another section of the government that doesn't agree with how the SGC is handling the Stargate operation. When Colonel Kennedy shows up he is brash and opinionated. He believes that they should dissect the Gould inside Teal'c and learn everything they can about their enemy. After watching this episode it makes me wonder if this was the beginning of the NID. It started with a small decision and difference of opinion that led to so much deception and betrayal.

Sam and Jack

In all honesty it was hard for me to find moments between Sam and Jack in this episode. Sam and Daniel both took a backseat role in this episode but we did learn a lot about Jack and his personality. He used banter and joked about getting Kawalsky's stereo when they thought he would die during the surgery.
Throughout the entire series Jack tends to hide his emotions behind jokes rather than talk about his feelings. Not only did he show that in this episode but this is one of the first times we see him sacrifice someone he cares about for the greater good. He knew that he had no choice but to kill Kawalsky, just like he heartbreakingly sacrifices Sam in Entity.

During my rewatch I also noticed how weak Sam seems in this episode when she is thrown around by Kawalsky. It's a little surprising given how strong she is in the next episode, but I'll chalk it up to the fact that she's a young Captain still learning the ropes.

While there aren't a lot of Sam and Jack scenes I love the touching moment in the briefing room where he's checking on her after she was injured in the elevator. I think someone told me that was actually RDA checking on AT because she was really injured? Just goes to show you what amazing chemistry they had from the very beginning.

[brendini]

While there aren't a lot of Sam and Jack scenes I love the touching moment in the briefing room where he's checking on her after she was injured in the elevator. I think someone told me that was actually RDA checking on AT because she was really injured? Just goes to show you what amazing chemistry they had from the very beginning.

Yes, AT actually got a concussion from that "stunt". I can't remember right now if she hadn't yet learned the trick that stunt people use to prevent it from happening, or if she just didn't get a chance to use it.

[fems]

During my rewatch I also noticed how weak Sam seems in this episode when she is thrown around by Kawalsky. It's a little surprising given how strong she is in the next episode, but I'll chalk it up to the fact that she's a young Captain still learning the ropes.

I saw this more as Kawalsky being so much stronger, since he has a background in black ops and is host to a Goa'uld.

[SGSuzi]

Great review Meredithe5

not my favourite episode but not a bad one. I too liked the touching scene in the briefing room, even if it was the actual actors it still works as part of the story.

One thing I have to say after watching this episode is

GO HAMMOND!!!!

[hlndncr]

Could someone please post the season one review/rewatch schedule?

[iiradned]

Could someone please post the season one review/rewatch schedule?

Here.

[hlndncr]

Here.

Thanks!

Is there an updated one with all the holes filled in?

[meredithe5]

So here is the official season 1 rewatch schedule:


31st August - Children of the Gods (SGSuzi)
7th September - The Enemy Within (Meredithe5)
14th September - Emancipation (SaraBahama)
19th September - The Broca Divide (Brendini)
24th September - The First Commandment (Hlndncr)
29th September - Cold Lazarus (sueKay)
4th October - The Nox (Meredithe5)
9th October - Brief Candle (Hedwig)
14th October - Thor's Hammer (Hlndncr)
19th October - The Torment of Tantalus (Lucycat)
24th October - Bloodlines (Lt. Colonel John Sheppard)
29th October - Fire and Water (SGSuzi)
3rd November - Hathor (Meredithe5)
8th November - Singularity (SaraBahama)
13th November - Cor-ai (Lt. Colonel John Sheppard)
18th November - Enigma (Hlndncr)
23rd November - Solitudes (SGSuzi)
28th November - Tin Man (Brendini)
3rd December - There But for the Grace of God (SGSuzi)
8th December - Politics (Part 1 Meredithe5) Within the Serpent's Grasp (Part 2 Lt. Colonel John Sheppard)

Hope to see you all there!!

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

why does December 8th have two episodes?

[SGSuzi]

why does December 8th have two episodes?

its a two parter is it not???

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

its a two parter is it not???

t yeah it is a two-part season finale but really a three part episode.

[hlndncr]

Thanks for the review of The Enemy Within meredith!

I don't really care for this episode. It was a necessary follow up to the pilot and our chance to learn a little more about Teal'c and the series mythos. But it falls flat for me because a lot of what is established here is later contradicted or ignored, which is typical of early episodes in any series.

I do like the relationship between Teal'c and Jack established in the pilot and further developed here.

Favorite lines:

If I had killed you then I would not be here now.
Neither would I.

Favorite scene:

The team together on the ramp ready to embark on their first real mission together through the gate.

I admit that the almost complete lack of S/J interaction makes this episode far less interesting for me, but the little touch in the briefing room is nice.

Here's a little drabble to add a little shippy rosa to that moment:

Spoiler:

Sam was humiliated.

She had been taken hostage by Kawalsky, knocked senseless in the elevator, and rescued by the Colonel. Yes, Kawalsky was being controlled by an infant Goa’uld that gave him an enormous boost of strength, and Sam had done her best to stop him, but she still hated how the whole thing made her look weak and ineffective.

Sam sat in the briefing room staring straight ahead, trying not to look at the Colonel beside her while they waited for the briefing to begin. She could just imagine what he must be thinking. When she first entered this room she had challenged him and insisted that she could handle anything he could handle. Now she was concerned he might use this incident as an excuse to pull her off his team.

Everyone around the table stood when General Hammond entered the room. As Sam resumed her seat, she felt the Colonel’s hand on her arm. Turning toward him he whispered, “Good to have you back, Captain.” He smiled and she saw the sincerity in his eyes. She smiled lightly and turning her attention back to the General she considered that perhaps there was more to this new CO then she had previously considered and she just might like knowing him better.

[SGSuzi]

Thanks for the review of The Enemy Within meredith!

I don't really care for this episode. It was a necessary follow up to the pilot and our chance to learn a little more about Teal'c and the series mythos. But it falls flat for me because a lot of what is established here is later contradicted or ignored, which is typical of early episodes in any series.

I do like the relationship between Teal'c and Jack established in the pilot and further developed here.

Favorite lines:

If I had killed you then I would not be here now.
Neither would I.

Favorite scene:

The team together on the ramp ready to embark on their first real mission together through the gate.

I admit that the almost complete lack of S/J interaction makes this episode far less interesting for me, but the little touch in the briefing room is nice.

Here's a little drabble to add a little shippy rosa to that moment:

Spoiler:

Sam was humiliated.

She had been taken hostage by Kawalsky, knocked senseless in the elevator, and rescued by the Colonel. Yes, Kawalsky was being controlled by an infant Goa’uld that gave him an enormous boost of strength, and Sam had done her best to stop him, but she still hated how the whole thing made her look weak and ineffective.

Sam sat in the briefing room staring straight ahead, trying not to look at the Colonel beside her while they waited for the briefing to begin. She could just imagine what he must be thinking. When she first entered this room she had challenged him and insisted that she could handle anything he could handle. Now she was concerned he might use this incident as an excuse to pull her off his team.

Everyone around the table stood when General Hammond entered the room. As Sam resumed her seat, she felt the Colonel’s hand on her arm. Turning toward him he whispered, “Good to have you back, Captain.” He smiled and she saw the sincerity in his eyes. She smiled lightly and turning her attention back to the General she considered that perhaps there was more to this new CO then she had previously considered and she just might like knowing him better.

Loving the little Drabble, makes the episode a little more bearable.

[Ikorni]

hlndncr, you're in danger! We're so going to expect drabbles for each episode rewatch now.