Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Akamaimom]

Well, people tend to die when their brain is gone...

But with Orlin (and Daniel, when he descended after having been ascended), it's the knowledge of the ascended beings that leaves them, not the actual brain. I'll have to watch the episode again, but I had always thought that it was just the knowledge of the Ascended beings that was leaving him, not his actual brain. To have him eventually fall into brain death as little more than a child is a little dark--especially for Stargate SG-1. Of course, it might be that I have a slightly optimistic view of things, so there's that, too.

[fems]

But Orlin started forgetting everything and Sam eventually had to tell him he'd already done this and said that to her. Even if it was only less than an hour ago.

[Nynaeve506]

That whole "Ripple Effect" almost-kiss was just plain weird. It had been five years since he died in her reality, so I've never been able to figure out a good reason for that almost-kiss. The only way I can justify it is that it was some sort of residual Jolinar feelings, because I honestly don't think Samantha Carter would have done that had there not been some sort of left over influence. Plus, I just blame the writers for sticking it in there where it didn't belong.

I always chalked it up to Jolinar. I know people say "Oh well, it's been..." but let's think about it - Jolinar and Martouf had what sounded like a pretty intense relationship, memories, feelings, etc, were imbued to Sam. She's really only just figuring all that out when he goes zay'tarc on everyone. Then he's dead and she has to grieve, so she shelves the attraction thing (because it wasn't love, but the echo of love living inside her).

So along comes Ripple Effect and, IMO, she's happily settled down with Jack, but it's this crazy time, with a million people, and someone she hasn't seen and really hasn't resolved shows up. He was dead. Personally, I think if they hadn't been interrupted and she had kissed him, it wouldn't have gone very far. Just because you're happily in love with someone (in her case, Jack), doesn't mean you stop having chemistry with other people and it doesn't mean you're not vulnerable to a really, really bad idea.

Add all that together, mix in some stress and complex math equations, fold in a lot of rushing emotions at meeting dead people (like Janet and Martouf), and you've got a recipe for a half-second of bad judgment.

It just makes her...human

[Gatetrixer]

I think saying she wasn't interested in any of those guys makes Sam seem too much like a spinster. I prefer to think of her as a hotblooded woman, so the idea she had so many little dabbles here and there seems more healthy than years of being alone pining for Jack until she settles for Pete.

So, my vote is for her showing interest in Narim, Orlin, Joe Faxon, Martouf and all them. Though I agree that she didn't really return the affections for Felger or cute!Simmons (much different character than evil!Simmons, after all). I'll go either way with Agent Barrett. I think with him she found the attention flattering, and flirted kinda in response, but really wasn't into it.

Well, she was a spinster, as defined as an unmarried woman, which is the meaning in legalese (or maybe was, not sure still is use). I assume you are using it in a pejorative way, to mean a "prim, prudish old maid." Yes, not our Sam, though she was a stickler for the frat rules, which I wouldn't doubt was was a jab flung at her by some male officers.

[selene0789]

Well, she was a spinster, as defined as an unmarried woman, which is the meaning in legalese (or maybe was, not sure still is use). I assume you are using it in a pejorative way, to mean a "prim, prudish old maid." Yes, not our Sam, though she was a stickler for the frat rules, which I wouldn't doubt was was a jab flung at her by some male officers.

I totally meant that perjoratively Because no matter how single our Sam is, she wasn't prim, prudish, OR an old maid.

*sobs* mental image of Sam as a lonely old maid *sniff* sad. *flashes to Unending*.... and enter Teal'c, to rescue Sam from a lonely fate!

I'm evil, bringing up Teal'c in a Sam/Jack thread. Again.

[Nynaeve506]

I totally meant that perjoratively Because no matter how single our Sam is, she wasn't prim, prudish, OR an old maid.

*sobs* mental image of Sam as a lonely old maid *sniff* sad. *flashes to Unending*.... and enter Teal'c, to rescue Sam from a lonely fate!

I'm evil, bringing up Teal'c in a Sam/Jack thread. Again.

I wrote a fic once titled "Coda" which was my "Unending" filler with hints of Sam/Teal'c. I don't see anything in the show (except friendship), but I think if trapped on a ship for...30-50 years he would be the most logical choice given their history. Plausibly speaking. I really didn't see it in the show no matter how CJ and AT played it (too subtle for me LOL)

[selene0789]

I wrote a fic once titled "Coda" which was my "Unending" filler with hints of Sam/Teal'c. I don't see anything in the show (except friendship), but I think if trapped on a ship for...30-50 years he would be the most logical choice given their history. Plausibly speaking. I really didn't see it in the show no matter how CJ and AT played it (too subtle for me LOL)

HAHAH OMG I JUST REREAD THAT FIC!!! Awesomeness. Small world, huh? Sorry if I didn't review (I read too much to remember what I review to and what I don't), but I think is the best review an author could get ever. A shoutout in a non-fic related forum. Oh man.

Hee hee, that's gonna fuel me for a while.

I liked that fic a lot, because it was totally believable (and I buy into the way CJ and AT played it out-- no matter how subtle it was). Well done, my friend!

[SaraBahama]

And as for Orlin, I think she got a bit overwhelmed or overcome by the sharing of energy thing and was more intrigued about him than interested in him romantically (though I'm sure she thought it was very cute). One could consider the energy sharing as "sex", but I don't see it that way. In my mind, it was a mental (replace with whatever other more appropriate word of choice) sort of sharing that allowed her to become aware of knowledge in a way that she couldn't have in ordinary life (if that made any sense). Plus, she told him very firmly and sternly that there was no "them" when he got upset about her not calling to let him know she was going to be late that one day.

I have never interpreted the 'glowy' thing between Sam and Orlin as any version of sex. Orlin described it as "a sort of…exchange of spirit." I'm afraid if we interpreted it sexually, that the end of that road would lead us to contemplate that Orlin attempted this on Sam without her consent the first time...a little disturbing if you follow that line of thinking. I just accepted it as a blending, a non-verbal communication that accomplishes what our clumsy language cannot entirely capture. Orlin would have approached Sam to communicate this way the first time, not being aware that it might overwhelm her human mind (imo).

I think saying she wasn't interested in any of those guys makes Sam seem too much like a spinster. I prefer to think of her as a hotblooded woman, so the idea she had so many little dabbles here and there seems more healthy than years of being alone pining for Jack until she settles for Pete.

I think what hedwig is advocating is that Sam is so much more complex of a character than that. It is not always about romantic/sexual attraction. Stargate is full of so many kinds of love: love of one's commrades, birth family, friends (those who are family by choice), the love of parents for children, children for parents.

Obviously Pete fell in the romatic attraction category.
IMO: Narim and Orlin fell into more of a category of someone she admired, befriended, and would like to have known better.
With Martouf I think Sam was enjoying the friendship that developed, but since she had been blended with his 'mate', she kept having to seperate her own feelings from Jolinar's.

Don't get the idea from my comments that I believe that Sam could not have a deep romantic attraction to someone other than Jack (ok...saying that out loud put a bad taste in my mouth...lol). Obviously she let herself fall for Pete (thank all that's holy that she came to her senses) -it's just that I see Narim, Orlin, and Martouf as something different.

Yes...Sam is passionate! but she's also complex.

And I don't think advocating that Sam may have harbored brotherly or friendly feelings for these characters automatically equals her 'pining' or being a spinster.

It's just an opinion...and if yours is different, that's ok with me too

I always chalked it up to Jolinar. I know people say "Oh well, it's been..." but let's think about it - Jolinar and Martouf had what sounded like a pretty intense relationship, memories, feelings, etc, were imbued to Sam. She's really only just figuring all that out when he goes zay'tarc on everyone. Then he's dead and she has to grieve, so she shelves the attraction thing (because it wasn't love, but the echo of love living inside her).
So along comes Ripple Effect and, IMO, she's happily settled down with Jack, but it's this crazy time, with a million people, and someone she hasn't seen and really hasn't resolved shows up. He was dead. Personally, I think if they hadn't been interrupted and she had kissed him, it wouldn't have gone very far. Just because you're happily in love with someone (in her case, Jack), doesn't mean you stop having chemistry with other people and it doesn't mean you're not vulnerable to a really, really bad idea.
Add all that together, mix in some stress and complex math equations, fold in a lot of rushing emotions at meeting dead people (like Janet and Martouf), and you've got a recipe for a half-second of bad judgment. It just makes her...human

Nicely said!

[Gatetrixer]

I totally meant that perjoratively Because no matter how single our Sam is, she wasn't prim, prudish, OR an old maid.

*sobs* mental image of Sam as a lonely old maid *sniff* sad. *flashes to Unending*.... and enter Teal'c, to rescue Sam from a lonely fate!

I'm evil, bringing up Teal'c in a Sam/Jack thread. Again.

Okay, but I'm responding that spinster should not be used perjoratively, and also let's not let categorize single women in one way.. I'm married myself (and a mother), but have single relatives who I do not think should be thought of as not being whole persons. Even Sam seemed to complain about this in Affinity. I love romantic stories and Sam-Jack are the only SG-1 fic I read, but it is fic. There's this great poem that starts out "After a while". Too long to put on here but but some pretty good stuff in it about being single.

[selene0789]

Okay, but I'm responding that spinster should not be used perjoratively, and also let's not let categorize single women in one way.. I'm married myself (and a mother), but have single relatives who I do not think should be thought of as not being whole persons. Even Sam seemed to complain about this in Affinity. I love romantic stories and Sam-Jack are the only SG-1 fic I read, but it is fic. There's this great poem that starts out "After a while". Too long to put on here but but some pretty good stuff in it about being single.

Hmm... You're right.

I didn't mean to imply that single women weren't whole people. Not at all. I meant to make that my point. Something about my not believing Sam never felt things for Orlin/Narim/Martouf because she was pining after Jack. I think it got lost in everything else.

How did we even GET here?!

I'd try to explain myself, but I'd only dig my hole deeper So, I'll nut up and just leave it. But please don't think I meant offense! I totally didn't.

Someone should throw out a new line of conversation. I'll start, since I was part of what made the last train of thought go WAY off track...

Okay, my fave episode is Point of View, because it was the second time we got to see a Sam and Jack together who were so totally devoted to each other that it just broke my heart to see alternate!sam back in her own reality without her husband.

BTW, I love the picture she had of her wedding day. Anyone got a screen cap of it?

[hedwig]

Okay, but I'm responding that spinster should not be used perjoratively, and also let's not let categorize single women in one way.. I'm married myself (and a mother), but have single relatives who I do not think should be thought of as not being whole persons. Even Sam seemed to complain about this in Affinity. I love romantic stories and Sam-Jack are the only SG-1 fic I read, but it is fic. There's this great poem that starts out "After a while". Too long to put on here but but some pretty good stuff in it about being single.

Thank you for that.

I'm in agreement. I'm not a spinster, even though I'm single. I may be "alone", but I'm not "lonely". There's a huge difference.

I'm not sure if this is the poem you mean, but it's beautiful:

Spoiler:

After a while you learn the subtle difference between holding a hand and chaining a soul.

And you learn that love doesn't mean leaning and company doesn't mean security.

And you begin to learn that kisses aren't contracts and presents aren't promises.

And you begin to accept your defeats with your head up and your eyes ahead, with the grace of an adult, not the grief of a child.

And you learn to build all your roads on today because tomorrow's ground is too uncertain for plans, and futures have a way of falling down in mid-flight. .

After a while you learn that even sunshine burns if you get too much.

So you plant your own garden and decorate your own soul, instead of waiting for someone to leave you flowers.

And you learn that you really can endure;
You really are strong, you really do have worth.
And you learn, and you learn
With every goodbye you learn.

[Nynaeve506]

HAHAH OMG I JUST REREAD THAT FIC!!! Awesomeness. Small world, huh? Sorry if I didn't review (I read too much to remember what I review to and what I don't), but I think is the best review an author could get ever. A shoutout in a non-fic related forum. Oh man.

Hee hee, that's gonna fuel me for a while.

I liked that fic a lot, because it was totally believable (and I buy into the way CJ and AT played it out-- no matter how subtle it was). Well done, my friend!

LOL Woohoo! I'll take a shout-out

Okay, but I'm responding that spinster should not be used perjoratively, and also let's not let categorize single women in one way.. I'm married myself (and a mother), but have single relatives who I do not think should be thought of as not being whole persons. Even Sam seemed to complain about this in Affinity. I love romantic stories and Sam-Jack are the only SG-1 fic I read, but it is fic. There's this great poem that starts out "After a while". Too long to put on here but but some pretty good stuff in it about being single.

I think the primary problem for Sam is that she wasn't a whole person - not because she didn't have a relationship - but because she wasn't taking any emotional risks whatsoever. She didn't have a life. By the end she spent all her time at work, avoiding any emotional risk. Even Pete wasn't really an emotional risk - he was a physical diversion and while I think she was attracted to him and that she did care about him (and perhaps loved him), she wasn't really stepping out of her comfort zone and living.

The important thing IMO is that in "Threads" she isn't deciding that she wants Jack. She's acknowledging that she doesn't want Pete. That what she wants, to be comfortable in her own skin, isn't what she was going along with. She chose to take charge of her life (with or without Jack), and that's what made her whole (single or not).

My brain is fuzzy so I'm not sure that was entirely coherent.

[majorsal]

Actually, I'm not forgetting any of that. Yes, she kissed Narim, but it doesn't mean she was returning his interest; I think that was just more of a response to a sweet guy showing an interest in her the way he did (which isn't to say she'd respond the same way to anyone else showing a similar interest). And she did tell him in "Pretense" that until she could figure out whose feelings she was feeling that she couldn't be involved with anyone. And the same goes for Martouf. I think she really liked him, but her feelings about him were so confused because of Jolinar that she couldn't figure out whose feelings she was feeling towards him. We never got to see how she would have interacted with him without the whole Jolinar thing, so we don't know if she would have felt any attraction for him otherwise. And as for Orlin, I think she got a bit overwhelmed or overcome by the sharing of energy thing and was more intrigued about him than interested in him romantically (though I'm sure she thought it was very cute). One could consider the energy sharing as "sex", but I don't see it that way. In my mind, it was a mental (replace with whatever other more appropriate word of choice) sort of sharing that allowed her to become aware of knowledge in a way that she couldn't have in ordinary life (if that made any sense). Plus, she told him very firmly and sternly that there was no "them" when he got upset about her not calling to let him know she was going to be late that one day.

That whole "Ripple Effect" almost-kiss was just plain weird. It had been five years since he died in her reality, so I've never been able to figure out a good reason for that almost-kiss. The only way I can justify it is that it was some sort of residual Jolinar feelings, because I honestly don't think Samantha Carter would have done that had there not been some sort of left over influence. Plus, I just blame the writers for sticking it in there where it didn't belong.

And I agree that Jonas Hansen got what he deserved. But I wouldn't say his death was because she knew him and had been engaged to him. I'm pretty sure he would have wound up dead even if they had never met.

agree

@ 'alien sex'!

[SaraBahama]

Okay, my fave episode is Point of View, because it was the second time we got to see a Sam and Jack together who were so totally devoted to each other that it just broke my heart to see alternate!sam back in her own reality without her husband. BTW, I love the picture she had of her wedding day. Anyone got a screen cap of it?

Jack & Sam POV wedding.jpg

Does anyone else love how Jack is smiling brilliantly in this picture?

[Nynaeve506]

Does anyone else love how Jack is smiling brilliantly in this picture?

Someone 'round here won the pic in an auction and I know there's a full size scan somewhere...Anyone??