Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[hlndncr]

This week we began Season 2 with The Serpent's Lair and In the Line of Duty

Rewatch Schedule for next week:

Prisoners
The Gamekeeper
Need
Thor's Chariot
Message in a Bottle

[muziqaz]

This week we began Season 2 with The Serpent's Lair and In the Line of Duty

Rewatch Schedule for next week:

Prisoners
The Gamekeeper
Need
Thor's Chariot
Message in a Bottle

Oh I see, I am up to next next week

[Kunoichi]

Yay! I'm up to date as of 30 minutes ago! I love 'In the Line of Duty', it's a great Sam episode and AT does a fantastic job in it.

[Conn8d]

Yay! I'm up to date as of 30 minutes ago! I love 'In the Line of Duty', it's a great Sam episode and AT does a fantastic job in it.

Totally agree and since I hadn't seen it for a while it felt surprisingly fresh. Love Jack's concern for Sam in the cell after the ashrak, and in th infirmary!

[SaraBahama]

This week we began Season 2 with The Serpent's Lair and In the Line of Duty
Rewatch Schedule for next week:
Prisoners
The Gamekeeper
Need
Thor's Chariot
Message in a Bottle

THANKS! I watched "In the Line of Duty" this weekend and followed immediately with "Need", since I hadn't seen that one in a while.

Yay! I'm up to date as of 30 minutes ago! I love 'In the Line of Duty', it's a great Sam episode and AT does a fantastic job in it.

Totally agree and since I hadn't seen it for a while it felt surprisingly fresh. Love Jack's concern for Sam in the cell after the ashrak, and in th infirmary!

I concur -that ep stands out to me as well. It could not have been easy to act another 'person' within Sam Carter. AT did a great job. Did anyone else notice that when they get Sam to the Infirmary, and the camera pans to Jack -it looks like he is wiping his eyes/nose?

Is it OOC to imagine this bringing our rough-n-tumble Jack nearly to tears? I thought when I first saw it that I was imbuing the moment with too much emotion...but every time I see it, I catch that movement -RDA acted this small gesture -has there been any commentary on it?

For the newbies:
A nice TAG to this ep is polrobin's: Embrace Me Chapter 1. It was one of the first fics I ever read, and was so in character that I was duly impressed. It remains one of my favorites.

[hlndncr]

Did anyone else notice that when they get Sam to the Infirmary, and the camera pans to Jack -it looks like he is wiping his eyes/nose?

Is it OOC to imagine this bringing our rough-n-tumble Jack nearly to tears? I thought when I first saw it that I was imbuing the moment with too much emotion...but every time I see it, I catch that movement -RDA acted this small gesture -has there been any commentary on it?

As I've heard it, the gurney rolled over RDA's foot when they were coming in. He does wipe away a tear because he was in pain.

However, they chose to use that cut. So I do interpret it as Jack being distraught over losing Sam. And when the base alarm sounds, he doesn't move from her side. Instead he sends Teal'c to check it out. There's nothing Jack can do there but look on and hope, but he chooses to stay because in my mind that is where his heart is.

Frankly this whole episode is very shippy for me. Jack is so open and vulnerable. He goes back for Sam at the opening and is concerned when he sees blood. When he comforts Cassie you know he's thinking this just can't be Sam. He's so distraught when he learns she's been taken over by a goa'uld and he has to confront her. When he finds her lying in the cell, the way he caresses her hair and face, it's not just a commanding officer checking to see if his Captain is still breathing. There's a real tenderness there.

In my mind, this is when Jack realizes he may be falling for Sam. He's confronted with losing her and it's just too much for him to hide from his real feelings.

When Jolinar confronts each member of the team from her cell she uses their deepest desires to try and manipulate them. For Daniel that's finding Sha're. For Teal'c it's a chance at defeating the gou'ald. For Jack she offers him Sam, alive and whole. Jolinar could read Sam's memories. I think she not only discovered Sam's own growing feelings for Jack, but with the eye of an uninterested observer she was able to discern that Jack too had feelings for Sam (something I don't think Sam sees herself yet).

Shippers will debate endlessly whether it was Sam or Jolinar who was shouting for Jack not to leave her. If it was Sam then I think it was her frantic terror that caused her to make such a personal plea. If it was Jolinar, then her knowledge of Jack's vulnerability made her believe that the intimate entreaty was more likely to weaken his resolve.

[Nynaeve506]

I've often thought it was "both" (what a lovely middle-of-the-road position right?). I mean, if we consider that a symbiote blends with the host, and while the blending was not complete, there was significant swap of emotion (evidenced by Sam's later attraction to Martouf - who wins the creepy "You look just like my dead girlfriend!" award).

In other words, I think at this point Sam has come to truly depend on Jack. They have a kinship, a camaraderie, and a mutual attraction which Jolinar would have picked up on. No doubt Sam felt that she was trapped in her mind, internally screaming out. Jolinar shared a similar desperation - to be believed, to satisfy her mission, to get back to her lover without being killed. I would expect that there was a feedback and that when the shout came, it was both feeling and experiencing (although I do think it was Jolinar in control - whether she let Sam cry out or did herself is moot point IMO).

[Akamaimom]

Either way, Sam or Jolinar, I think that it shows the deepening bond between Sam and Jack. Jolinar would have picked up on the feelings that Sam was feeling and used them however she needed to in order to escape from the assassin. We know that the Tok'ra are fully capable of doing so in order to further their own ends.

The REALLY interesting thing about it is that Sam must have also been carrying a little inkling that Jack might return those feelings. As complete as the knowledge is between host and Tok'ra, Jolinar would not have tried the ploy had she not felt that it would sway Jack in some way. In other words, Sam MUST have been feeling some reciprocation from Jack at this point of her personal interest, otherwise Jolinar would have gone for some other plan.

[hlndncr]

Either way, Sam or Jolinar, I think that it shows the deepening bond between Sam and Jack. Jolinar would have picked up on the feelings that Sam was feeling and used them however she needed to in order to escape from the assassin. We know that the Tok'ra are fully capable of doing so in order to further their own ends.

The REALLY interesting thing about it is that Sam must have also been carrying a little inkling that Jack might return those feelings. As complete as the knowledge is between host and Tok'ra, Jolinar would not have tried the ploy had she not felt that it would sway Jack in some way. In other words, Sam MUST have been feeling some reciprocation from Jack at this point of her personal interest, otherwise Jolinar would have gone for some other plan.

I think after their time in Antartica both Sam and Jack were more aware of one another and had developed a very personal connection from sharing such a tramatic experience. But personally I think Jack's feelings were much deeper at this time than Sam's. I think Jack was far along the road to being in love with her. I think Sam was just strongly attracted at this point. So while I think she was certain Jack cared for her it wasn't a belief in a romantic attachment but that personal closeness that came from facing death together; so she pled for him to stay with her and ultimately save her as they had done for one another in Antarctica.

[Akamaimom]

I think after their time in Antartica both Sam and Jack were more aware of one another and had developed a very personal connection from sharing such a tramatic experience. But personally I think Jack's feelings were much deeper at this time than Sam's. I think Jack was far along the road to being in love with her. I think Sam was just strongly attracted at this point. So while I think she was certain Jack cared for her it wasn't a belief in a romantic attachment but that personal closeness that came from facing death together; so she pled for him to stay with her and ultimately save her as they had done for one another in Antarctica.

[img]http://signavatar.com/7792_s.gif[/]

Regardless, you know when someone kind of likes you, right? There's just that sense that tells you that. Sam must have felt that vibe from Jack, otherwise Jolinar wouldn't have tried the first name thing--if she were thinking to appeal to him in a "colleagues" sense--to appeal to Jack as an underling looking to her superior for salvation, she would have gone with a "Colonel" or "Sir". The only reason to pull out a "Jack!" is for a more personal plea.

[hlndncr]

Prisoners

Not a lot of obvious ship in this one, but Sam and Jack work together very well. At one point, he playfully slaps her on the arm to get her attention. He also stays pretty close to her for most of the ep. Think that's a little bit of his protective side coming out in light of what happened in the last episode?

The scene where there talking to Linea about a power sources has a lot of silent communication between them. He brags about her being the one to figure out the stargate -- showing Linea she's not the only genius around -- and while Sam appears embarassed and tries to deflect some of the praise you can tell she's pleased with Jack's high opinion.

[hlndncr]

Gamekeeper

Really not a bit of shippiness in this episode. They aren't even near one another for the majority of the time. They stand next to one another in the control room and she hands his weapon to him at the end. That's it.

I was able to give one of the Keeper's lines some shippy implications.

[SaraBahama]

Prisoners
Not a lot of obvious ship in this one, but Sam and Jack work together very well. At one point, he playfully slaps her on the arm to get her attention. He also stays pretty close to her for most of the ep. Think that's a little bit of his protective side coming out in light of what happened in the last episode?
The scene where there talking to Linea about a power sources has a lot of silent communication between them. He brags about her being the one to figure out the stargate -- showing Linea she's not the only genius around -- and while Sam appears embarassed and tries to deflect some of the praise you can tell she's pleased with Jack's high opinion.

Thanks for doing the synopis/commentary for us on these, hlndncr!

I enjoy Season 1 & 2 much better in hindsight...this relationship was played out so slowly and intricately that it is like enjoying a fine chocolate (or perhaps to some of you, a fine wine). There is so much in their relationship that is admiration, camaraderie, and personal affection -a balance of command and caring, that it is enjoyable on so many levels. Jack's little hints/slips that he cares just a little too much for her have begun, and you almost see him waring with the part of his mind that knows that he is not allowed to feel this way about his 2nd. Jack, being who he is, veils his feelings in admiration when he can, and I'm sure he is not confident that she feels anything for him. The team as a whole is developing the 'family' feel that will lend heart to later seasons.

Done for now -back to work! BTW -I should have the new computer installed TONIGHT! So Excited!!

[fems]

I enjoy Season 1 & 2 much better in hindsight...this relationship was played out so slowly and intricately that it is like enjoying a fine chocolate (or perhaps to some of you, a fine wine).

Personally, I find the combination of both the best!

[hlndncr]

Thanks for doing the synopis/commentary for us on these, hlndncr!

I enjoy Season 1 & 2 much better in hindsight...this relationship was played out so slowly and intricately that it is like enjoying a fine chocolate (or perhaps to some of you, a fine wine). There is so much in their relationship that is admiration, camaraderie, and personal affection -a balance of command and caring, that it is enjoyable on so many levels. Jack's little hints/slips that he cares just a little too much for her have begun, and you almost see him waring with the part of his mind that knows that he is not allowed to feel this way about his 2nd. Jack, being who he is, veils his feelings in admiration when he can, and I'm sure he is not confident that she feels anything for him. The team as a whole is developing the 'family' feel that will lend heart to later seasons.

Done for now -back to work! BTW -I should have the new computer installed TONIGHT! So Excited!!

I don't do much, just offer my opinion, something I do quite frequently . . . on every topic . . . whether you want it or not.

I also really enjoy how their relationship grows very naturally from professional respect, to friendship, to burning passion, and finally an enduring love. This really is the BEST SHIP EVER!