Originally posted by hlndncr
View Post
The Ori were boring - I like SciFi but not supernatural stuff.
-
I agree! As villains I liked the Goa'uld, especially Niriti, Ba'al and Yu.
The Ori were boring - I like SciFi but not supernatural stuff.sigpicMy Stories zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Artwork by Mala
Distinguished Service Ribbon Goa'uld Campaign -
I actually found the Ori to be okay as villains--but in an uncomfortable way. I wasn't sure what TPTB were trying to say with them. Not that everything has to be meaningful, but it sure seemed that they were trying to say something, but I wasn't sure what.
There were aspects of Christianity in them, but I found their intolerance of any other kind of belief system to be more reminiscent of other religions than of Christianity (at least as I practice it). The Goa'uld were more effective as villains to me because they were completely out for themselves and their own power--there were questions about what the Ori truly wanted. I'm not sure if that makes any sense, but I liked having the Goa'uld just be power hungry despots, not having to try to decipher if the producers/writers were trying to portray any particular religion through the Ori. I like to watch a show for entertainment, not to discover deep eternal truths about the nature of deity and one's relationship with them/it/he/she/whatever.
I'm sure that made no sense at all, but that's why I didn't really like the Ori.
I think that Sam changed in these seasons because she was more comfortable with herself as a woman and as a soldier and as who she was in them. She no longer felt the need to prove herself, and I've always gotten the impression that she was satisfied with letting Cam be the ipso facto leader of SG-1 because she'd found her place elsewhere. When you are satisfied in your personal relationship, a lot of times you no longer feel the need to be top dog everywhere else. Besides, her perspective on how much she can influence the universe has been honed over the past eight years. I actually saw some of that mellowing in Seasons 7 and 8--where she wasn't the eager-beaver junior officer as much, and had graduated to being more sure of herself.
I'm not sure if any of that made sense (I'm tired--can I use that as an excuse for rambling?), but there it is.Comment
-
I'd like to think that since Jacob didn't die in the black team's universe, that he sat her down and had a father-daughter chat with her and told her how unsuitable Pete was for her, and how he'd never be able to accept what she did for a living, so she'd be way better off without him.Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
Or, even better, in that reality, she never met Pete.Last edited by hedwig; 20 May 2011, 09:07 AM.Comment
-
OT, but still pertinent:
Spoiler:Comment
-
Sorry to just unceremoniously drop into the conversation
, but I have a few thoughts on both of these subjects (i.e. the Ori and Sam's post-S8 development) that I thought I'd share...
In re the Ori, I actually found them to be far more intriguing and captivating for some of these very reasons. There was a mystique to them. I found the commentary on organized religion a fascinating one, but didn't see fit to peg it to any one specific faith. And that the Ori were not personified by any one (or few) particular foe(s), but rather were a ubiquitous nemesis made them all the more ominous. The Goa'uld, as fun as they were, were caricatures. The most interesting of them was Anubis, for me, because of the mystery that surrounded him; but many of them were almost goofy.
As for Sam, I agree with much of what has been said already. Sam (through S8 as well, I found) was a great deal more self-assured - especially so after Pete, it seemed. When she came back in S9, it really felt like she had defined herself in her own mind. It was like she finally knew precisely who she was. I think sorting her relationship with Jack probably had a fair bit to do with that; in S7/S8, career-wise, Sam knew who she was, but as Jacob pointed out to her, she didn't have a well-rounded, satisfying life - it was out of balance and incomplete. The relationship with Pete felt like an exercise in what Sam felt she ought to do. I imagine there was a feeling of a weight being lifted she left Pete, giving her the freedom to define herself as she truly wanted to; and, to me, a not insignificant part of her identity includes her deep feelings for Jack. That freedom to be herself in her personal life might have given her a feeling of finally finding herself (or, at least, that's how I imagine it...).
Sorry... I don't even have the "tired" excuse for my ramblings. I'm just too dang verbose!
"We still commit murder because of greed and spite and jealousy, and we still visit all of our sins upon our children. We refuse to accept the responsibility for anything we've done. [...] Its not enough to survive... One has to be worthy of survival."
~William Adama
All this has happened before. All this is happening again.Comment
-
-
So was Amanda Tapping. There are ways around it. Julia Louis-Dreyfuss had three kids (or at least two) while Seinfeld was shooting. I was mostly trying to state that, seeing another show's character twists and turns, I will take Sam and Jack any day.Originally posted by siles View Post
Comment
-
Originally posted by Akamaimom View PostSo was Amanda Tapping. There are ways around it. Julia Louis-Dreyfuss had three kids (or at least two) while Seinfeld was shooting. I was mostly trying to state that, seeing another show's character twists and turns, I will take Sam and Jack any day.
I do enjoy Bones and Castle, but Sam and Jack will always be my #1 super couple! 
Also, wanted to comment, that I've been reading and enjoying everyone's input!Comment
-
Please come and offer your opinion anytime Prof_S; it's great to get new points of view.
Re the Ori:
What I liked about the Goa'uld was their association with mythology and history. That's why I would have preferred more focus on the Arthurian legends. Like Aka I didn't want to contemplate the PTB's philosophy of religious devotion/fanaticism.
Re Sam's softer side:
I acknowledge that AT's new motherhood changed how she played Sam. Some of it was practical. She was probably exhausted and preoccupied and that would have made Sam come off more mellow. I believe her time was probably cut back, at least initially, so it would have made a strong Sam focus more difficult. But AT is a consumate professional, and I really didn't see a difference in her acting as much as in the poor quality of writing for her. That's just my bias.
I know some have suggested a Jack-centric character reason for the change. And if Sam had a baby I could see her priorities changing and her being happy not to be the leader. But I don't buy that her having a relationship with Jack means that she's content to watch her career slide. If that were true, I beleive she would have moved to Washington or left the Air Force (something she did at least contemplate if Grace is any indication).
Re that other ship:
Don't watch the show, but I imagine that they are keeping their options open. So that frustrating tendency definitely carries over to our ship. If AT had a pregancy happened earlier (she did have a couple of miscarriages previously), I shudder to think what the PTB might have done. We could have had a little Carter/
!
sigpic
My Art. My Fanfic.Comment
-
Here's the last episodes of Season 9.
(Summaries from GateWorld episode guide)
by hlndncr
Baal kidnaps Teal'c as part of a plot to brainwash those Jaffa advocating a move toward democracy. Cameron Mitchell learns that an old friend is about to die.
by hlndncr
Daniel is imprisoned on a world under the influence of the Ori, and the Prometheus is caught in a firefight when SG-1 tries to rescue him.
by hlndncr
SG-1 is captured after a deal with the Lucian Alliance goes bad ... and the planet's Stargate goes missing. Meanwhile, a former System Lord attempts to rebuild his empire.
by hlndncr
A tour of an off-world research base for a group of foreign diplomats turns dangerous when an insidious insect species gets loose.
by hlndncr
Mitchell and Carter are shifted to another dimension, making them invisible to everyone at the S.G.C. Meanwhile, Teal'c and SG-9 discover that the Sodan have been brutally attacked.
by hlndncr
Vala Mal Doran makes contact with Stargate Command from the Ori home galaxy, and tells the story of her life undercover in a village of followers building the Ori's invasion fleet.
by hlndncr
SG-1 discovers the village of Camelot on an alien world, and must face Merlin's security system when they go in search of an Ancient weapon. Elsewhere, Earth and its allies assemble a fleet when a working Ori Supergate is discovered.
Carter and Kvasir believe that by installing a new dialing control crystal in the Ori Supergate, they can dial out to the Ori galaxy before the Ori's armies dial in. Because wormhole travel is one-way, this would allow us to prevent them from dialing in -- and give us a way to send Merlin's weapon as soon as it is found. But the Ori beat them to it and Carter is stranded in deep space after the Ori ships destroy the Milky Way fleet.
Vala is on board one of the four invading warships, and apparently about to give birth.
So what did you think of Season 9 as a whole--especially the treatment of the Sam & Jack ship?sigpic
My Art. My Fanfic.Comment
-
ThanksOriginally posted by hlndncr View Post
Hehe, it's funny you should put it this way... I study philosophy, so I'm a little predisposed to this sort of contemplation.Re the Ori:
What I liked about the Goa'uld was their association with mythology and history. That's why I would have preferred more focus on the Arthurian legends. Like Aka I didn't want to contemplate the PTB's philosophy of religious devotion/fanaticism.
That said, I agree with you on the history tie-in part; it would have been absolutely fascinating if they had continued with Arthurian myth! That's part of what I enjoy about Sanctuary too - the revisionist history. It's quite a lot of fun!
This is a good point. It's tempting to see Jack as the impetus for the change (as you can see from my last post, I was and am so tempted), but I think you're right to point out that this seems an improbable reason for her shift in ambition. That brings me to something I've been pondering since S9 - did Sam have ambitions of command? I keep changing my mind on this one... it wasn't something she overtly sought, but then it doesn't follow from that that she didn't foster such ambitions. Hmmm...Re Sam's softer side:
I acknowledge that AT's new motherhood changed how she played Sam. Some of it was practical. She was probably exhausted and preoccupied and that would have made Sam come off more mellow. I believe her time was probably cut back, at least initially, so it would have made a strong Sam focus more difficult. But AT is a consumate professional, and I really didn't see a difference in her acting as much as in the poor quality of writing for her. That's just my bias.
I know some have suggested a Jack-centric character reason for the change. And if Sam had a baby I could see her priorities changing and her being happy not to be the leader. But I don't buy that her having a relationship with Jack means that she's content to watch her career slide. If that were true, I beleive she would have moved to Washington or left the Air Force (something she did at least contemplate if Grace is any indication)."We still commit murder because of greed and spite and jealousy, and we still visit all of our sins upon our children. We refuse to accept the responsibility for anything we've done. [...] Its not enough to survive... One has to be worthy of survival."
~William Adama
All this has happened before. All this is happening again.Comment
-
So much to catch-up on! I may have to break this up.
EDM
Generally, this is the episode which jumps the shark for me because a whole building being beamed out and nobody notices?! The idea that this could happen and they could keep the Stargate programme secret is just stupid.
Moreover, this is where we see the swing to focusing on Mitchell (finally) but here it's the same thing as Beachhead but Mitchell instead of Vala having the idea that saves the day at the expense of the other characters. It's also weird that in the first episode that has the new 'team' put together, they're immediately geographically separated.
Sam and Jack
So, Sam is suddenly back but no real explanation of why. She doesn't look all that thrilled when Mitchell pats the SG1 patch back on her arm.
There is the fact that Sam is geographically close to Jack at various points of this episode. There's some nice concerned looks when Ba'al reemerges but it's strange there's no mention of Jack.
Of course the main highlight of this episode is "Not exactly" in relation to Sam being single again (and that she also turns down Barrett again).
Babylon
So, again the new team is broken up again and Landry seems less wedded to the leave no man behind and happy to call off the search.
I spent the entire episode wondering why it couldn't have been Teal'c who got captured and spending time with the Sodan warriors.
Sam and Jack Nothing. Nadda. Zippo.
Prototype
Generally, this was the first episode since Avalon that I liked of S9. I love the divert-the-gate trick. I really like the mind games that Khalek plays with the team. I actually think Daniel is very true to character - he knows Anubis better than anyone else; he's never been a pacifist.
Sam and Jack
In terms of Sam, I think there are hints that she's not entirely comfortable with the new team format or her place at the SGC. There are just some moments - one that comes to mind is Sam being a little disgruntled at Mitchell naming things. In my head, Sam had moved on - she had a command at R&D, she was happy professionally and personally (with Jack), and she's suddenly back on SG1, back on the frontline, and without a command. So I think at this point, Sam is trying to find her place again; trying to get comfortable again.Comment
-
The Fourth Horseman
Generally, I consider this the worst two-parter in the history of the show. The whole plague on Earth thing stretches the believability of the secret programme hugely.
Sam and Jack
The whole Orlin/Sam intimate conversation with Landry is so inappropriate. I hated it on first watch and hate it now. I personally choose to believe Sam was referring to the glowy spirit sharing because there is absolutely no hint in Ascension that they do anything else. Sam barely acknowledges to Orlin that she likes him in the park. If there is one redeeming feature of the whole Orlin storyline is that it removes Orlin as a possible other and Sam looks completely uncomfortable when boy!Orlin attempts to bring up his feelings for her again.
Again, Sam's anti-prior device and Bill's comments do indicate to me that Sam is continuing to find her feet in the 'new' SGC and hasn't completely settled.
Collateral Damage
OK, I really liked this one. Finally we get a chance to know more about Mitchell with the added bonus that the team bands around him to get him out of trouble.
Sam and Jack Nothing. Nadda. Zippo. But I like that Sam's compassionate side is brought out to play here and she is ostensibly in charge given Mitchell is locked up and accused of murder.
Ripple Effect
I was so looking forward to this and so disappointed. I wanted more Janet, less Martouf.
Sam and Jack
OK, so I may have yelled at the TV screen over the almost-kiss with Martouf. Personally, this is where I almost walked away from the show because while I was OK living with ambiguity, this pushed it right to the envelope by almost having Sam kiss another man which if she was with Jack she would never do. I choose to believe that she's exhausted, Jolinar's old feelings surface momentarily which she hasn't had to deal with for a long time, and for a moment she's leaning toward Martouf. But she stops herself (actually before the intervention of the Asgard) and looks grateful when the Asgard interrupts.
Stronghold
Generally I like the relationship of Mitchell with his friend. I like the conversation he and Sam have about telling people. I hate Tigger!Mitchell who appears in the raid.
Sam and Jack
Sam is ostensibly in charge of the rescue mission even if Mitchell goes in gung-ho.Comment
-
Ethon
I like this episode. It's a good follow up to Icon. I love the moment Sam enters and Mitchell and Teal'c see her alive.
The only thing I hate is the complete lack of command here as they facilitate firing on the satellite. Neither Mitchell nor Sam step up to make the call; they're humming and hawing because of Daniel and it's that lack of decisiveness that leads to the destruction of the Prometheus. Not a banner day even if they make up for it later in helping the two nations come to an agreement.
Sam and Jack Nothing. Nadda. Zippo.
Off The Grid
Tigger!Mitchell returns and gets them all captured by the Lucien Alliance. Seriously. This is the guy who began the season saying he wanted to learn from SG1 and here he brushes off their advice and charges ahead anyway. Inconsistent writing that doesn't help the notion that he's supposedly the one in charge. (I'd like to point out that the other three presumably led by Sam had rescued his cute butt from the LA before Ba'al inconveniently stole the gate).
Sam and Jack
Sam does seem very relieved to get back and her whole attitude when Mitchell is exuberant about their day is so 'been there, got the t-shirt, I'm so over it, I just want to go home, kiss Jack and forget this day ever happened.'
The Scourge
It's not a bad episode and it's nice to see the team being competent and working together well.
Sam and Jack Nothing. Nadda. Zippo.Comment
-
Arthur's Mantle
Generally, it is a fun romp but nothing special. I do love Teal'c saving Mitchell on the planet when Mitchell had ostensibly gone there to save Teal'c.
Sam and Jack Nothing. Nadda. Zippo.
Crusade
The return of Vala is actually OK. I love the banter between Vala's confessions of what happened to her, particularly the Virgin birth discussion with Teal'c naming Darth Vader.
Sam and Jack Nothing. Nadda. Zippo.
Camelot
I like the fact that it's the girl who draws the sword from the stone. And I like the end denouement with Earth and its allies in such deep doodoo as the Ori get their Supergate up.
Sam and Jack
Sam is literally left hanging!! I choose to believe that she's thinking of loved ones as she hangs there...including Jack.Comment
My Fics - the fluffy/silly variety
Comment