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    Originally posted by hedwig View Post
    In "Torment of Tantalus", it was made clear that Sam and Catherine knew each other before Sam was assigned to the SGC, and probably knew Catherine before Daniel did. It has always seemed odd to me that at least Sam wasn't at the funeral along with Daniel. I do realize there was no Samantha Carter in the original movie, but in the series there is clearly a warm friendship between the two women. I would have liked to see all of SG1 at the funeral.
    I agree with this. Although I'm not sure about Sam knowing Catherine first. If that's true, then Sam and Daniel should have met, too. Right? And yet it's clear that they haven't met until they do on Abydos. If Sam had been working on the project for five years, then she and Daniel were working on the thing concurrently, and should have been together in order to maximize their potential.

    **scratches head in confusion**

    Who knows?
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      Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post
      I agree with this. Although I'm not sure about Sam knowing Catherine first. If that's true, then Sam and Daniel should have met, too. Right? And yet it's clear that they haven't met until they do on Abydos. If Sam had been working on the project for five years, then she and Daniel were working on the thing concurrently, and should have been together in order to maximize their potential.

      **scratches head in confusion**

      Who knows?
      My impression is that Daniel was brought in on the program just before the trip to Abydos (and so had only been involved in the program for maybe a month - he'd never heard of it before that), so it is possible that Sam was working in some other location in regard to the gate and so they didn't meet. I could be remembering wrong, but didn't she say something to him when they met on Abydos about knowing she was going to like him. That suggests to me that she had heard of him, but not met him until she, Jack, Kowalski, etc. went to Abydos.

      Oh, and howdy, stranger!

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        Howdy back!

        So, I wonder if Sam and Daniel have ever had a "King of the Lab" competition/discussion (like Zach and Hodgins in Bones).

        "Hey--I know how the 'Gate actually works."

        "Yeah--but I actually MADE it work."

        "So, what. You think you're smarter than me?"

        "Three years, Sam--you'd been working on the problem for three years before I came along. It took me--like--a month to figure it out."

        "Shut up, Daniel."

        "Ooh--that's an intelligent rejoinder, Sam."

        "Kids!" Jack groaned from the corner. "Do I have to send you two to your rooms?"
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          Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post
          Howdy back!

          So, I wonder if Sam and Daniel have ever had a "King of the Lab" competition/discussion (like Zach and Hodgins in Bones).

          "Hey--I know how the 'Gate actually works."

          "Yeah--but I actually MADE it work."

          "So, what. You think you're smarter than me?"

          "Three years, Sam--you'd been working on the problem for three years before I came along. It took me--like--a month to figure it out."

          "Shut up, Daniel."

          "Ooh--that's an intelligent rejoinder, Sam."

          "Kids!" Jack groaned from the corner. "Do I have to send you two to your rooms?"
          And they both turn on him, and in unison, "Kids??? Look who's talking!"

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            Or, Sam says, "Only if you come with me."

            Ooh--is that too fluffy for this thread? Sorry.
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              Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post
              Howdy back!

              So, I wonder if Sam and Daniel have ever had a "King of the Lab" competition/discussion (like Zach and Hodgins in Bones).

              "Hey--I know how the 'Gate actually works."

              "Yeah--but I actually MADE it work."

              "So, what. You think you're smarter than me?"

              "Three years, Sam--you'd been working on the problem for three years before I came along. It took me--like--a month to figure it out."

              "Shut up, Daniel."

              "Ooh--that's an intelligent rejoinder, Sam."

              "Kids!" Jack groaned from the corner. "Do I have to send you two to your rooms?"
              Funny. But I don't see it. Sam and Daniel have always been too simpatico with one another. I think if anything they would take the other's side. No Daniel you figured it out in just a month. But Sam, I couldn't have done it without all the hard work you put in for so many years.

              Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post
              Or, Sam says, "Only if you come with me."

              Ooh--is that too fluffy for this thread? Sorry.
              Fluff! HA! Who are you kidding?!

              More like *SPLASH*

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                Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post
                Or, Sam says, "Only if you come with me."

                Ooh--is that too fluffy for this thread? Sorry.
                I like it.

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                  I'm still thinking it would make a funny fic--maybe they're affected by some alien virus that has them at each other's throats--like the alien armbands in "Upgrades".

                  Because I really need something else to do. . .

                  ***sigh***
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                    My random and completely unorganized thoughts about Threads. (I apologize in advance for the rambling.)

                    When Sam first sees Kerry with Jack she looks at the very least confused and a little surprised, if not jealous. It may seem unfair for Sam to appear jealous when she sees Jack with another woman considering her relationship with , but it has to seem rather out of the blue for Sam to see Jack laughing and smiling with Kerry like that. I think she is definitely fishing for information when she goes into Jack’s office and Jack shuts her down or at least brushes it aside. I’m sure that’s nothing he wants to be discussing with Sam. Which is an interesting turn about, because Sam is always discussing her relationship with with Jack. Kind of unfair of Sam really, but I guess if Sam has convinced herself that Jack doesn’t care about her that way, it would seem natural for Sam to want to at least talk to Jack as a friend (and maybe hope he would do the same). Shows how much I think she isn’t ready to really let go of Jack.

                    I think their relationship is in a very uncomfortable place at the beginning of Threads. (Even the camera angles seem uncomfortable. Jack and Sam are filmed at different levels and not meeting eye to eye. Symbolic perhaps?) Just as at the end of Reckoning, they are at odds over Daniel’s fate. I don’t think Sam really wants to give up on Daniel, but I think she’s looking for some support in dealing with him being missing and once again (as in Meridian) Jack just won’t go there with her.

                    I always thought a diner was an odd choice for representation of the ascended plane (or almost). Who comes up with this stuff?

                    IMO Oma was actually with Daniel for a short time before RepliCarter started impersonating her in Reckoning. Why else would she say that Daniel would soon be faced with a choice? Then Daniel walks into the diner at the beginning of Threads, is met by Oma, and essentially told the same thing.

                    Why is allowed into the SGC (with full clearance! that has to be editorializing no way did he get full clearance)? Jacob is not confined to base. He’s supposed to be going to visit Mark the next day. Why would Jack agree to let on the base when he could have just as easily met Jacob at Sam’s house?

                    Sam obviously didn’t tell what was going on before he met Jacob, but I wonder how much she told Jacob. He’s sitting there waiting for Sam to come in with a very concerned look on his face. Then during their meeting you can see him looking over at Sam like, “Are you serious about this idiot?” Way to go Jacob!

                    It’s interesting to compare meeting Jacob with the first time Jack and Jacob meet in Secrets. Jacob is standoffish and skeptical, if not downright hostile, in both cases. And while Jack doesn’t exactly come out on top (he quickly realizes the necessity of a strategic retreat) he definitely does much better at holding his own. And Sam’s reactions are soooo different. She’s definitely on Jack’s side, whereas she seems to be distancing herself from .

                    I have to say I actually feel a bit sorry for Teal’c. He has sacrificed so much for the freedom of his people, giving up his home and family, and it seems hard for him to let go of the fight; he is very reluctant to see victory in the face of all the challenges ahead. And once again he has to leave home and family (earth and SG1) for the good of his people. And soon we’ll see that his people don’t even appreciate it!

                    In the scene with Jacob and Sam in the commissary it sounds to me like Sam is trying to convince herself that marrying is a good idea. She wants validation from outside because she’s having a hard time giving it to herself.

                    I never understood what Jacob meant by “I know how happy he makes you.” Jacob hasn’t been around for months. By all indications he didn’t even know about until just before they were introduced, and Sam looked anything but happy. Was that just a backhanded swipe at Sam’s obvious stubborn refusal to acknowledge her true feelings? And why lie about Selmak? Is Jacob just trying to placate Sam to end the conversation? I have to admit, I’ve never really understood that exchange.

                    It hurts my heart to see Jack in bed with Kerry. YUCK!! It seems to me that their relationship moved awfully fast, and Jack certainly doesn’t appear to be particularly invested in it. I can see Jack searching for a way to move on, or at least ease a little of the pain and loneliness, but I don’t quite understand why Kerry jumped so fast (OK, other than the fact that Jack is HOT).

                    Here’s my biggest pet peeve with the briefing room/flowers scene: cell service 28 floors down in a concrete bunker? I want her carrier!

                    Again shows his selfishness, an inability to understand and accept the importance of Sam’s job (to him it’s all a joke – super hero with tights, alien invasions vs. wedding cake), and a penchant for inappropriate behavior. They spent some time trying to rehabilitate his character before Sam agreed to marry him in Affinity *shudder* but it seems now we are embracing the initial impression that he is in fact an idiotic schmuck.

                    I do see Jacob pushing her in this scene and I don’t have a problem with it character-wise because Jacob has always pushed Sam. That and the innocent act afterward is very him. And I don’t see Jack as being mean. I think he is actually doing his best to be supportive while staying out of it as much as possible. Sam is clearly avoiding.

                    I think it is scary that remembered Sam’s description of the house she always wanted from their first night together. Is he talking about the same one where he threw a tantrum and stormed out the next morning to run a background check on her or their first date? Either way, there are problems with this scenario.

                    Incidentally, Jack’s kitchen is yellow. And Sam knows he wants a dog. It’s these little hints that tell me she is substituting one fantasy for another, or in other words substituting a life with in the place where her heart still pictures Jack.

                    Brief Daniel interlude. Why does Anubis want Daniel to remember what happened the last time? Is it just his Goa’uldish nature wanting to gloat? I don’t get it. I’m sure he believed Daniel would be incapable of stopping him just like the last time or he wouldn’t have done it. After all, it was Daniel’s realization of what was really going on that led to Anubis’s ultimate demise.

                    Now back to the good stuff—Sam in Jack’s backyard. I think Jack may have been ready to shut Sam down again when she started talking about her misgivings about the wedding. Partly because he knows Kerry is there and sooo not the right time. Maybe partly because he’s the senior officer and he feels it’s his duty. And maybe partly to protect himself.

                    Sam actually cuts him off and charges on through from the first time. I think she may have even finished saying it if not for Kerry.

                    Why did Kerry ask Sam if she wanted to stay? Politeness? Or maybe she wants more time to observe what is really going on? Kerry does seem awfully perceptive, figuring out Jack and Sam’s relationship in just a few moments of interaction. (And now I’m going to give some credit here so take note (it won’t happen again). I get the feeling never actually got to see Jack and Sam together. By unspoken mutual agreement I think Sam kept those two apart.) But I suppose Kerry does have to be suspicious just by nature of the situation—Sam is at Jack’s house and clearly not there on business.

                    I want to take a moment to ask what about Mark? Jacob collapses at the SGC, but he’s supposed to be on a plane to San Diego. So I just wonder when/if Mark was informed because he had to have been at least concerned. But no mention of it, and I admit that bugs me.

                    Also don’t get Jacob’s comment that he thought they could make it to the wedding. This is yet another instance when I think their continuity and sense of timing is off. (The 4 years instead of 6 bugs me too.)

                    Here are my thoughts on the timing of Sam’s wedding. When we were discussing Citizen Joe some people commented that she was newly engaged then we get to Threads and some say we are within days of the wedding. None of that makes any sense to me. I don't know exactly how much time has passed, but I have to believe it's been several months. And they are just getting around to picking flowers and meeting with the caterer? I get the feeling Sam's been putting it all off for a while, not wanting to make any definite plans because she's still very uncertain (although probably using work as a convenient excuse, which seeing as they were facing the end of all life in the galaxy may have been somewhat valid ). But at the same time, you don't do those things days before the wedding. So the wedding can't be scheduled for very soon. So I'm just throwing out there that I think she's been engaged for several months and I think the wedding is still several months away.

                    I think Jacob had to know what was going on between Sam and Jack and must have approved. His conversation with Sam, while cryptic, just doesn’t make sense any other way.

                    In some ways I think Kerry is like Sam. She is smart, strong, and committed to her work. So I find it interesting that Sam chose someone very different in to try and forget Jack; whereas, Jack chose someone very similar to Sam.

                    Why hint at Jack possibly retiring if they weren’t going to do it? I feel like they gave me a shiny new toy and then promptly took it away, which is actually how I feel about most of S9 and S10. They’d give me a hint that Sam and Jack were together and then through in some ridiculous thing like Sam almost kissing Martouf. It just makes me mad!

                    I think after Kerry leaves Jack finally concludes that he can’t live without Sam and he isn’t going to try anymore. But I don’t know if he would have gone to her if she hadn’t come to him earlier and created that opening first.

                    Just before the battle at Tartarus Teal’c tells Bra’tac that he’s only as old as he feels himself to be. Then Bra’tac says, “Talk to me in fifty years.” And Teal’c says he will. Ironic that in two years, Teal’c will be 50 years older and Bra’tac will still be around.

                    I do think the scenes with Daniel are him to his core. He won’t let wrong go by unchallenged. I think it’s what makes even the others acknowledge his potential, and hence why they chose to send him back instead of letting him die after Oma was gone. (A horrible end for her btw that just really rubs wrong against my concept of redemption. And talk about a curse. I think Daniel’s women have had it far worse than any of Sam’s men!)

                    In my opinion the Always scene is perfect.

                    But I do still want a kiss. Somewhere. Sometime. Please!

                    We come in at the end of Sam dumping and I have to kind of wonder what exactly she told him. The fact that he knew (What? That she didn’t love him? That it wouldn’t work between them?) and yet persisted, and she had no idea how he would react to the truth tells me they didn’t really know one another at all.

                    I like that Jack, Sam and Teal’c face the end together (and with thoughts of Daniel). Also notice how Jack starts to yell at Sam (about setting the self destruct) and then stops, pulls back, and sort of pleads instead? The first intimations of a shift in their relationship?

                    And we end with fishing, which is exactly how it should be. I like that Daniel and Teal’c are there because I think the team should be together in the end. But I admit to being left unsatisfied with how constrained it still seemed to be for Sam and Jack in the end.

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                      ::delurks::

                      Of course, I decide to start reading this thread right at the end of this set of reviews.

                      Anyway, a couple of comments.

                      Sam is an honorable woman, so breaking off a promise to marry goes against her grain. So she waffles way longer than she should have.

                      is a bit controlling, like Crazy!Jonas and Martouf. Even Narim has to be in control of their relationship due to the restrictions he feels are put on him by the Tollans. Maybe Sam liked letting someone else make the decisions in her off-time? Maybe that is one reason she hesitates about Jack, since he in essence controls her all day long? Even though he would never control her life the way the others would want. He's the one man that wants her as she is.

                      But today I realized Sam was still suffering the after-effects of a concussion when she met I now feel much better about her uncharacteristically poor judgment. LOL

                      Sometimes I wonder how things would hve gone if Janet had been around to read her the riot act. And just think of all the wonderful Dr. Janet and Gen. Jack scenes we could have had ~sigh~

                      And I am in the "I want a kiss" and "Thank God for fic" camps, too.

                      banlu
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                        Originally posted by banlu View Post
                        ::delurks::

                        Of course, I decide to start reading this thread right at the end of this set of reviews.

                        Anyway, a couple of comments.

                        Sam is an honorable woman, so breaking off a promise to marry goes against her grain. So she waffles way longer than she should have.

                        is a bit controlling, like Crazy!Jonas and Martouf. Even Narim has to be in control of their relationship due to the restrictions he feels are put on him by the Tollans. Maybe Sam liked letting someone else make the decisions in her off-time? Maybe that is one reason she hesitates about Jack, since he in essence controls her all day long? Even though he would never control her life the way the others would want. He's the one man that wants her as she is.

                        But today I realized Sam was still suffering the after-effects of a concussion when she met I now feel much better about her uncharacteristically poor judgment. LOL

                        Sometimes I wonder how things would hve gone if Janet had been around to read her the riot act. And just think of all the wonderful Dr. Janet and Gen. Jack scenes we could have had ~sigh~

                        And I am in the "I want a kiss" and "Thank God for fic" camps, too.

                        banlu
                        I agree that Janet would have been a stabilizing influence for Sam, and the voice of reason when it seemed like everyone else was out of their freakin' minds (concussion and all)!

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                          Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post
                          Or, Sam says, "Only if you come with me."

                          Ooh--is that too fluffy for this thread? Sorry.
                          Nah, it's still Sam/Jack ship thread, so fluff is okay by me

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                            Catherine's neice

                            I always find it a bit weird that it's only Daniel at the funeral given Catherine knew Sam, Jack and Teal'c too. I always think they were all meant to go but there was some last minute emergency and only Daniel got to go as he was the one giving the eulogy.

                            As far as the neice is concerned, I don't why but I've always thought of her as the daughter of one of Catherine's cousins (with the assumption that her father had siblings who had children who had children). Quite often if cousins are close the relationship is sibling-like. Plus I know some of the cousins I'm not particularly close to still have their young children calling me Aunt (which is a depressing note on my age).

                            Sam, Catherine and meeting Daniel

                            From canon, Sam worked on the Stargate programme for a long while getting the dialling device to work and thus had to have known Catherine. As someone has already mentioneed they greet each other very warmly in TOT.

                            My personal fanon is that the Air Force (General West) tells Catherine he's going to start pulling personnel. Catherine goes off to Chicago soon after this conversation and presents her offer to Daniel. On her return, she finds Sam has been transferred out as the dialling programme work is completed and the Air Force require her skills elsewhere. Daniel arrives; Jack arrives; Daniel solves the seventh symbol. Events of the movie transpire. Daniel stays behind; Jack comes back, tells them to bury the gate and immediately retires again. Sam gets reassigned back to the Stargate to try other addresses (she says she and her team tried to dial other planets in COTG). Hammond is placed in charge of the Stargate programme. Sam works on alternate uses of the Stargate (1969) but eventually is reassigned to the Pentagon to another scientific programme. A few months later, Apophis attacks the SGC...and we're into the show.

                            I also tend to view the movie as AU (mainly because of the different actors) so things are the same-ish but not quite. But there is a blonde woman in the control room during the dialling sequence in the movie who in my head is "Dr Samantha Carter" (as she's in civvies).
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                              Great review, hlndncr... we seem to be on the same page! I tried to green you, but was unable.

                              banlu... Thanks for delurking to comment! I like your observation about how Sam was concussed when she met , that would explain it!

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                                This won’t be nearly as long as my insane Threads ravings, but just as unorganized.

                                My thoughts on Moebius:

                                I really enjoy these episodes. I try not to think too deeply about them because they are just a fun little gift at the end of eight wonderful years—a fond farewell and one last outrageous adventure with our beloved team.

                                Daniel mentions that he was talking to Catherine last week when he’s told she has died. This means that he at least has kept in touch with her. So presumably he knows what happened with Ernest, and maybe that’s why it’s not mentioned. Personally, I think Ernest passed away some time previous and we just never hear about it on the show. But I do agree that all of SG1 should have been at the funeral. Sam clearly had a relationship with Catherine before CotG (and I think she was transferred to the Pentagon just before Daniel came, and researched the gate from there until she was brought back in CotG). And after ToT I think there is no question that the whole team had developed a friendship with Catherine.

                                It doesn’t bother me that Catherine has a niece. I don’t remember it ever being explicitly stated that she had no siblings. But if that is the case, I have a nephew who is my best friend’s son. Nevertheless, I consider him family. I can see Catherine taking a friend’s child under her wing.

                                Did you note the foreshadowing in Daniel’s speech? He says he doesn’t know where he would be if he hadn’t met Catherine and then later we learn that he would be teaching ESL, badly.

                                Oh I love the briefing room scene. There’s touching. And it was quite obviously deliberate touching too.

                                Sam is clearly in control and has a comfort level with it she hasn’t shown all season. If only we could have seen this side of her earlier. Love that it’s when Sam shakes her head that the discussion ends. Oh Jack, you are so whooped.

                                I’m so glad they brought back Collin and DSD and Jay Acovone back for this one. So good to see them. I love them all.

                                I don’t mind that the changes to these secondary characters were minor in the alt timeline. I think anything else would have taken away from the team, which is what these eps were really all about. The alt version of McKay I felt made perfect sense. In our timeline he’s well on his way to being an almost likeable guy. Without his Atlantis experiences to refine his character he remains the same self-centered jerk he was when we first met him. (And without Shep to stop him he finally got to name something. )

                                I think it’s telling that Sam and Daniel prove they are brilliant and indispensible in any timeline. And Jack and Sam’s interaction remains very symbiotic, with Jack very much depending on Sam for advice and support even when they don’t have years of shared history behind them.

                                One of my favorite moments is when alt Teal’c sees himself on the tape and learns what could have been. Yet another example of the emotionally powerful and understated acting brilliance of CJ.

                                I feel so bad for original Daniel, left all alone in the past after watching his friend die. I noticed that all of their gear was in the hidden weapons cache (you can see it for just a moment in the background). I think that wasn’t just because of the potential tactical value but as a sort of remembrance of his lost family that he held onto.

                                Like alt Sam’s statement (while walking with alt Jack), “I wonder if the future me has a boyfriend.” I consider that a clear signal that she does in fact have a boyfriend, even if Jack and Sam haven’t made their relationship official yet.

                                It’s interesting that Jack is very straight forward about his attraction to Sam in the alt timeline (because there’s nothing to hold him back), but Sam is still hesitant and dodges. She says because she is very cautious and wanted to get to know him better. It tells me that maybe our Jack really was only holding back because of the regs and his sense of duty, but maybe Sam was motivated by other fears and the regs were just her convenient excuse.

                                I never really noticed the difference in the endings from Threads to Moebius, except the fish (which I don’t let get to me; I choose to think of it as a stupid gag, which is what I think TPTB intended). Jack does look like he’s more relaxed (although Sam doesn’t). I would have liked them to be closer. I certainly wouldn’t have objected to a kiss.

                                I think the PTB really believed they gave that to us with the scene in the puddle jumper. I think they underestimated the fan’s ability to parse the details (duh!). They thought Sam and Jack kissed so what’s the problem. But I’m not sure it occurred to them that because it wasn’t exactly our Sam and our Jack it would be looked at as a cheat.

                                If this would have been the end of the series I can’t say I would have been completely satisfied, but perhaps not as frustrated as I am today. But I think that frustration comes from the schizophrenic PTB treatment of Jack and Sam’s relationship from here on out. If they would have just made a decision to get them together and had the cajones to stick with it I wouldn’t be as bitter now, especially given so many unfulfilled promises.

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