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    Thanks for the well-wishes guys! This review is rather rushed, but if I didn't get it up tonight I wouldn't have time until Friday, so without further ado...


    Made by Padme

    Synopsis
    The Replicators begin a systematic attack of the Goa'uld, forcing Baal to come to Earth for help. The Jaffa Resistance risk their entire movement in an attempt to retake a holy city in Baal's domain.
    (Taken from GW episode guide)

    Favorite scenes
    It's a four-way tie between Replicarter vs. Daniel stuff after he realizes she is posing as Oma, the confrontations between Jack and Ba'al, the planning scenes between Teal'c, Bra'tac, and Tolok, and the scenes between Jack and Jacob. (Maybe it'd be easier to just say the whole episode...)

    Favorite quotes
    BRA'TAC: Listen to me, O'Neill. This war must be fought on two fronts. We will reignite the uprising and conquer our oppressors while you find the means to stop these Replicators. Let us each fight the enemy we know best.

    O'NEILL: I've got a better idea. Instead of helping you, why don't we sit back and watch you get your ass kicked? That way, you'll be dead, and we'll be glad!

    BAAL: You cannot be serious.

    O'NEILL: Yes I can. I just choose not to some of the time.

    Analysis
    Season 8 as a whole is rather hit or miss for me, but I simply adore Reckoning. While Heroes remains the best two hours of SG-1 IMHO, Reckoning does an amazing job of meshing some of Stargate's longest running story arcs into storylines that weave together and culminate in an amazing showdown by the end of part 2.

    I love the way the writers were able to dovetail Stargate's two main enemies, the Goa'uld and the replicators, together in such a logical way. The replicators naturally seek out the most advance technology in the galaxy, in this case the Goa'uld. And the return of Replicarter not only adds in the elements of the Ancient weapon and Daniel's subconscious Ancient knowledge, but adds a character angle to the conflict for Sam. Similarly, the return of Ba'al adds both a subversive element to the Goa'uld, given his willingness to work with the SGC against Anubis, as well as a character angle for Jack who is clearly gleeful at seeing Ba'al having to ask for his help.

    While part of me wishes for a follow-up to the Sam/Replicarter showdown from Gemini, Replicarter targeting Daniel for his Ancient knowledge makes sense and the revelation of the Dakara weapon nicely dovetails with its significance to the Jaffa. Sam doesn’t get quite as much to do in this part, she’s mostly stuck on the ship with Thor, but part 2 more than makes up for that and AT herself was likely already stretched playing Replicarter as well. And I’d just like to briefly fangirl AT’s performance as Replicarter, it was so cold and chilling, in the opening scene you can tell just by the look on her face that this was not the real Sam Carter. I so wished the writers had kept Replicarter around for seasons 9 and 10 (I would have enjoyed her and Ba'al as the main enemies much more than the Ori and LA ).

    In addition to the great plot development, I also really enjoyed the character moments in the episode. I always love to see Bra'tac, and his scenes with Teal'c are a great culmination of both their relationship as mentor/mentee, and their leading roles in the Jaffa rebellion. The scenes between Jack and Jacob are always nice as well, you can see how much Jack has come to like and respect Jacob as himself despite him also being a Tok'ra. And I also liked the brief scene between Sam and Jack where they talk about her feeling guilty about Daniel getting taken by Replicarter. (more on that later)

    Overall, Reckoning part 1 does a really nice job of getting all the pieces into place for the climactic showdowns of part 2, and together they truly feel like an amazing culmination and pay-off of the past 8 seasons. My only real regret about the episode is that the main characters are mostly separated throughout the episode, Jack on Earth, Sam with Thor, Teal'c on Dakara, and Daniel with Replicarter. But the storylines are interwoven so well it still feels very teamy for me.

    Sam and Jack
    While Sam and Jack are separated for most of the episode, the moment they share before Sam gets beamed up by Thor speaks a lot about their relationship to me. Jack knows why Sam has come to see him before she says anything, and despite Jack no longer being on the team Sam shows little hesitancy in seeking him out to talk about her feelings about what happened to Daniel. It reminds of the moments in the past where we've seen Sam and Jack share their concerns or reassure each other in this way, like Evolution, Redemption, Fair Game, and even a bit in the Tok'ra. Sadly they get cut off by Walter and Thor, but I like that the intentions are still there on both their parts. As a non-shipper I don’t see this as ship but more as an example of their great friendship and that despite the change in their positions they still share the closeness they had as teammates.

    I also personally believe that ease and familiarity Sam and Jack have with each other here, and earlier like in Citizen Joe, has little to nothing to do with Sam's relationship with Pete. I do think Sam sincerely loved Pete, but she's also got 8 years of history with Jack as teammates and friends and that depth and breath of interaction doesn't simply vanish because she's in a relationship with another man. So I see Sam bantering with Jack in Citizen Joe, or touching on emotional issues like her guilt about Replicarter in this episode as indications of the strength of that friendship first and foremost. That’s why don’t really get the idea that scenes like this show that Sam doesn’t love Pete, because that seems to imply an either/or between Jack and Pete that I just can’t agree with, that Sam can’t be both in love with Pete and still share this deep connection with Jack at the same time.

    That's all my fried brain can manage for right now, sorry again for the lateness guys!

    sigpic

    Comment


      Great review. I'll get mine up tomorrow!

      I like your points about Sam and Pete. I don't think she would have told him yes if she didn't feel like she loved him, even if it's a matter that she's convinced herself that's how she will feel.

      I also agree complete with you in regards to AT's acting. Here and in other episodes with RepliCarter you can really see an incredible difference between the two characters that is expressed through subtle actions and expressions by AT.

      I think that's all I got for now, I better save the rest for my discussion on part 2

      Comment


        Originally posted by Gumarx View Post
        Great review. I'll get mine up tomorrow!

        I like your points about Sam and Pete. I don't think she would have told him yes if she didn't feel like she loved him, even if it's a matter that she's convinced herself that's how she will feel.
        That's one of my main sticking point regarding Sam's feelings for Pete. She's been down this road before, she's gone through the emotional process of falling in love with someone and choosing to commit herself to that relationship. Now one could argue, and perhaps in the aftermath Sam herself may now believe, that she never loved Jonas because she ended up breaking off the engagement, but that's judging the situation with the benefit of hindsight IMO, and without knowing the details of their breakup. With regards to Pete, we as viewers (or reviewers really ) know that they break up, but Sam is not there yet. And I personally don't see much of a difference between how Sam feels and what she's convinced herself she feels, and I don't think the show provides us with enough material to truly tease those two apart.

        My other sticking point is that if she didn't love Pete, or didn't fully convinced herself that she loved him up to this point, then she would have already broken it off with him. She broke up with Jonas where, as far as we know, there wasn't anyone else she had feelings for, and she's no stranger to being single or moving on alone in the wake of a broken engagement. So I just can't see Sam staying with Pete even if she didn't love him, just because Jack is still unavailable. I think she definitely still has feelings for Jack, but I don't think that's incompatible with her have feelings for Pete as well, they occupy different places in her heart IMHO.

        I also agree complete with you in regards to AT's acting. Here and in other episodes with RepliCarter you can really see an incredible difference between the two characters that is expressed through subtle actions and expressions by AT.
        I know, I love how they didn't need to to anything dramatic to AT to distinguish her as Replicarter, it was almost all done via her facial expressions and tone of voice. I think Gemini is still my favorite episode for her, but the stuff between her and Daniel is just fantastic. I look forward to your review! With finals done I've got time now to watch part 2, assuming I don't fall asleep first.

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        Comment


          I'm with y'all as far as I don't think she just stayed with Pete because Jack was unavailable/until she got another offer. And as Threads hasn't happened yet (in our review-world) I think she does believe she loves him (as you say whether or not she believes later she did or didn't is immaterial). I don't really think she spends hours analysising it at this point, not only is work pretty busy () but she's made her decision. It's not until several different things in Threads (the house/things Jacob says) that she starts to *really* think
          - but that's next week

          Oh and totally fangirling AT (not that that usually changes... but the difference between the two characters is great. It kinda reminds me of Entity!Sam but more)
          sigpicMy Fanfic

          Comment


            So I feel like a noob and can’t find the banner so I’ll just leave this here for now…

            Shipper Rewatch: Reckoning Pt 2

            Synopsis

            The fate of the galaxy hangs in the balance as Sam and Jacob search for the only weapon capable of stopping the Replicator onslaught. O'Neill leads a defense of the S.G.C., while Daniel squares off against Replicator Carter.
            (Taken from GW episode guide)

            Favorite scenes

            Oh this is hard. The scenes with Sam and Jacob are great, especially as a rewatch because you can pick up on the subtle foreshadowing. However, the scenes with Daniel + Replicarter are also quite awesome. I’ll just pick out some stuff in more detail further down I guess.

            Favorite quotes

            SAM: You know, you blow up ONE sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water

            also

            JACK: Use two of those things
            REYNOLDS: Sir?
            JACK: It’s a “blast door” (love the airquotes)

            Runner up:

            BRA’TAC: It appears things are about to get….bad.

            Analysis

            I’d honestly forgotten just how awesome this episode was until I started my rewatch. While I agree that after season 8 the show took a bit of a downturn, this episode arc really cements one of my favorite parts of Season 9 and 10, namely the banter that develops between Sam (and the SGC in general) and Ba’al. Overall we can divide the episode into four key parts – Sam and Jacob (and later Ba’al) working on Dakara to access and utilize the weapon, the work of Teal’c, Bra’tac and the Jaffa Nation to combat Ba’al, the struggle between Daniel and Replicart, and finally the invasion of the SGC by the replicators and Jack’s response.

            The beginning of the episode starts with discussion of the weapon at Dakara, and Ba’al’s enclosing forces. The relationship displayed in the dialogue between Jacob, Sam, and Jack here is nice; Sam and Jacob seem to have already decided what needs to happen, and it’s just the formality of filling Jack in. They are working together to draw the right information out of Jack and lead him to the same conclusion, that they must find the weapon to ensure it’s destroyed. This theme continues through the episode as we watch them work together to find the weapon, redesign it, and deploy it against the Replicators. This provides a really nice contrast to the discussion we saw at the beginning of Death Knell. In Death Knell they are ostensibly working together, but Jacob is pacing about while Sam is focused on something else – they’re in the same workspace, but they’re not working together. In this episode they are side by side almost the entire time; they are bouncing ideas off of each other, and each of them is coming up with a different piece of the puzzle. Of course, as a rewatch, this is bittersweet for us as we know what is to follow. The end of the episode foreshadows what is to follow, after firing the weapon Jacob is visibly struggling, and the look he gives Sam seems quite sad.

            The precarious and strained relationships within the Jaffa Nation is established when we first join them on their ha’tac. The Jaffa are arguing about how to proceed, and Te’alc points out that Ba’al is obviously wasting his time – he wants the Jaffa and the SGC to find and destroy the weapon before he arrives. I enjoyed how Tea’lc handles the situation here and brings the forces together – pointing out that although their situation seems grim, it once seemed even worse. Personally I don’t normally care for the more political aspects that we see within the Jaffa storyline, but I think what we see in this episode is really well done. Tea’lc is right about Ba’al, as he not only plays into their distraction but later joins Sam and Jacob via hologram to assist them in reconfiguring the weapon. Later we’ll see Ba’al and the SG team work together on other items, and this is one of the developments I enjoyed most about the later seasons, as a character he’s very interesting –he frequently seems to address his godhood in almost a tongue-and-cheek manner.

            We also see an interesting development that’s been brewing in Daniel’s character in these episodes. His development through the entire series is really quite amazing, and I think this is one of those episodes that really cements his movement from scholar to soldier (or his melding of the two roles). He not only resists Replicarter’s attempts to access the Ancient knowledge stored in his subconscious, but he lures her in and tricks her as he learns how to control the replicators through her. I’ve already mentioned how I love AT in the Replicarter vs Sam role, and we see even more of this here. Even just the way she looks at Daniel, we can tell this is NOT Sam. In the end, Daniel dies, again, and from a cinematography standpoint this is one of my favorite scenes. I really like the lighting and the color – the greyness of the ship, Daniel’s black shirt and ashen face really contrast with the slight trickle of blood we see.

            One of the smaller parts of the episode, but one of my favorites, is the invasion of the SGC by the replicators. These scenes seem really action packed, and it adds to the tension of the episode as a whole. My favorite scenes visually occur right after the invasion begins. Jack is making his way through the halls, the contrast in the scene seems dulled, the lights are flashing, all of this builds tension and I love it. And of course Siler ends up in trouble and Jack has to go rescue him.

            All of these separate storylines are tied together in the end, not only in the story but visually. We rapidly are switching scenes as each group fights their final battles – Jack and the SGC are fighting to hold back the replicators, Teal’c and the Jaffa are fighting against the replicator ships, and Sam is fighting back the replicators on Dakara. Although in different places, fighting different battles, everyone is visually pulled together as the scenes are rapidly linked. The end comes for Daniel, for the replicators, and, in a way for Ba’al. Although he escapes, we learn that the fact he flees has emboldened the Jaffa Resistance. I think my favorite thing overall is that this episode ends where it began – with Sam and Jack discussing the fate of Daniel.

            Sam and Jack

            In the beginning they obviously have a close relationship, although in this scene it certainly seems more professional than anything else. While an exciting episode overall, this part is certainly a little light on the ship. When the replicators first dial in Jack’s immediate response is “Is that Carter?” Of course, it could be because he was expecting a follow up from her, or it could be he was worried – I’ll believe the latter…

            Later we cut from Sam standing her ground in Dakara to Jack doing the same in the SGC. I feel like this cut links them, and their struggle against the Replicators.

            Finally at the end we seem them speaking and wrapping up the loose ends of the episode. Their banter is wonderful, and they are even finishing each other’s sentences. I like how Jack grounds Sam here, she’s obviously worried about Daniel, but he insists that they cannot jump to conclusions about what might have happened. However, as she walks away, we can tell from his mannerisms that he’s obviously just as concerned as she is. He doesn’t show her this concern though, and in a way I think this plays into a lot of the quirks of their relationship up to this point. It’s my opinion that, in regards to Pete, he was trying to do what he thought would be right for her. He was supportive when she came to him about the engagement, even though she seemed to be screaming “tell me no.” I feel this is another instance of a similar behavior.

            On an extremely excited aside:

            Spoiler:
            OMG AMANDA TAPPING IS GOING TO BE AT DRAGON*CON I'M SO FREAKING EXCITED
            Last edited by Gumarx; 04 March 2011, 09:38 AM. Reason: Added my aside.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Gumarx View Post
              Finally at the end we seem them speaking and wrapping up the loose ends of the episode. Their banter is wonderful, and they are even finishing each other’s sentences. I like how Jack grounds Sam here, she’s obviously worried about Daniel, but he insists that they cannot jump to conclusions about what might have happened. However, as she walks away, we can tell from his mannerisms that he’s obviously just as concerned as she is. He doesn’t show her this concern though, and in a way I think this plays into a lot of the quirks of their relationship up to this point. It’s my opinion that, in regards to Pete, he was trying to do what he thought would be right for her. He was supportive when she came to him about the engagement, even though she seemed to be screaming “tell me no.” I feel this is another instance of a similar behavior.
              Good job. You picked out most of my favorite lines from this episode, although I would have added the one about Jack telling Siler to put him in his Will, and Siler says he already did.

              The bolded part is one of my biggest grumbles about this ship. Jack decides what he thinks is best for her; he doesn't give her the chance or the choice of deciding what is best for her in this matter. Maybe he's allowed to do that where work is concerned, but he has no right to do that about her private life. It just infuriates me that he does that. I keep wanting to say something like "stop acting like her father and be a man about your feelings for her, and just tell her", and see how fast she chooses him. All this is just me ranting about his behavior/attitude, and it's unlikely I will ever change my mind about it.

              Otherwise, there are lots of good scenes in this episode. I also like the one where Sam, Jacob and Ba'al are working on the machine and Jacob and Ba'al have a few words, and Jacob finally turns to Sam and almost whispering says he can't work like this. Love that whole scene.

              Another favorite is when all the gates open at the same time and the dramatic music that goes along with it.

              And the look on Replicarter's face as she realizes she's lost and is about to be destroyed.

              Let's see - another is Bratac and the Jaffa storming into the control room to capture/kill Ba'al. You just knew Ba'al was going to escape and I kept thinking if only Bratac had fired 3 seconds sooner, it might have been different.

              Comment


                I just have to say that this is my favourite episode in the whole series (along with WoO).

                I love all the things quoted in the above posts, and remember how exciting I found this episode (especially when all the gates opened at once) when it first aired.

                The excitement is ramped up with all the quick cuts between the scenes, but it still feels like a 'teamy' episode. I can't wait to read what everyone thinks.
                sigpic

                Comment


                  Originally posted by dipsofjazz View Post
                  I just have to say that this is my favourite episode in the whole series (along with WoO).

                  I love all the things quoted in the above posts, and remember how exciting I found this episode (especially when all the gates opened at once) when it first aired.

                  The excitement is ramped up with all the quick cuts between the scenes, but it still feels like a 'teamy' episode. I can't wait to read what everyone thinks.
                  Yes, I really love how even though everyone was separated they were brought together through the cinematography, it was really great. We see them each struggling with different parts of a larger problem, and the cuts help us see how it all fits together to form a whole.

                  Comment


                    OK, I've really let myself get behind on the discussion. So forgive me for backtracking quite a bit as I try to get caught up.

                    Prometheus Unbound

                    This is like an S9 preview, foreshadowing everything I hate about the last two years of show. No Sam. No Jack. Barely any plot. Super annoying characters. Slap-stick action. Idiotic baddies.

                    I like Daniel less and less as a character after Season 5, but I especially hate what he becomes whenever he's paired with Vala. He's petty, rude, vindictive, and actually rather stupid.

                    I think Vala could have been an interesting character. A former goa'uld host, an outcast and a scavenger fighting for survival on the edge of the galaxy. But they never give her any depth. She's just the leather clad vixen they've been trying to get into the show since season 4, and in the end becomes a big joke.

                    No obvious ship in the ep, but Jack had told Sam she would go on the mission to Atlantis only over his dead body (see Gemini). And after yet another one of his teammates is stranded alone on Prometheus after being overtaken by hostile forces he has to be relieved that she stayed right there by his side. (Although maybe had she been there she could have had another epiphany and dumped sooner. )

                    This ep also once again highlights my biggest beef with S8, which is that Sam has no team to speak of (because they're always scattered to the four winds) and isn't really in charge.

                    Comment


                      It's Good to be King

                      I love this episode!

                      But let me get my standard complaint out of the way first (because it bares repeating, over and over again). The only off-world team episode of S8 happens only because Jack is there. Sam never really gets to be in command!

                      Like Jack, I too miss going off-world!

                      So yes, Wayne Brady was a huge fan of the show. I just love him for his fanboy enthusiasm when RDA was on his talk show (see clips in spoilers below). And I think he does quite a good job as Ares First Prime.

                      Spoiler:


                      I often here references to the great dynamic between Jack and Maybourne, but one thing this episode also highlights for me is the relationship between Maybourne and Sam. Remember Sam was betrayed by Maybourne in Foothold (and had that great comeback line), and zatted by him in PL. You can see the mistrust, annimosity and contempt she has for him just oozing off of her in all their scenes. Jack even has to calm her and push her away at the end when he mentions having wives.

                      (And just as an aside, I don't understand why male writers - especially on Stargate - always find polygamy so funny. Especially in this case where the women of the village seemed very capable and independent minded up until that quip and the end that I felt denigrated their characters.)

                      I do love having Jack back. I have a hard time concentrating on the plot because he just looks so hot. And there's so much great arm porn (and not just from RDA, MS and CJ are looking pretty great too.) And I'm not the only one who noticed, I saw Sam staring quite a bit too (and she did go for his sidearm )!

                      As to plot details, who cares? It's just fun. I always thought Janus was the ancient who built the time jumper and carved the prophecies. He had to have been hiding out in the woods there somewhere. Maybe he even uncovered a bit of the jumper so Teal'c could find it.

                      I agree that Petra has a point about Maybourne not mentioning Jonas or being surprised that Daniel was back. But as a viewer that is old territory. Maybe it wouldn't have taken much to throw in a line or two, but I'm just not that upset about it. (Now later when we're told the Ori have come to Kelowna that's a whole other story!)

                      Sam and Jack flying together is so cute. They just both really look like they are enjoying themselves. Sam's fixing ancient tech, and Jack is blowing up bad guys. Her smile and teasing after Jack blows the goa'uld mothership just shows how great they are together. I love it.

                      To me, the pictures say it all:
                      (spoilered for length)

                      Spoiler:











                      Last edited by hlndncr; 04 March 2011, 02:37 PM.

                      Comment


                        Full Alert

                        As much as I love IGtbK as a send off for Maybourne is how much I hate Full Alert as the send off for Kinsey. I thought Lost City did a much better job of it and that particular storyline should have been left alone.

                        So I'll start with the complaints (because there's very little to like in this ep IMO).

                        Once again we have an earthbound, no team, Trust episode. Frankly, I could have done without a single one of them from this season (especially Affinity but also Covenant and End Game). If I were to keep one it would have been Covenant because the Trust only plays in the periphery. As I've said before, the Trust is nameless and faceless and thus uniteresting. For example, when Kinsey goes into the mansion and we have a sort of big reveal of these mysterious puppet masters I think, "Huh, never seen any of these guys before and probably never will again, but one of them looks curiously similar to Mark Cuban." Really doesn't ratchet up the suspense for me.

                        I've also said this before (I really should stop repeating myself), but they ruined Kinsey by taking a unique and interesting bad guy and making him a nameless, low-level goa'uld. Do I think it was Kinsey's just desserts? No. Why? Because I think the worst fate for Kinsey was being in disgrace and out of power on earth. (I've worked with closely with politicians and believe me if you want to make them cry, force them to give up their positions and become ordinary people.)

                        As for the Russian angle, I found the whole story convoluted and uninteresting. The Russian lady was annoying. And the whole Daniel in Russia thing was done so much better with Gary Chalk and Collin Cunningham in 48 hours. And Jack's dealings with the Russians was way too chummy and therefore OoC.

                        Saving graces of this episode: Ronny Cox always gives a fabulous performance (especially opposite RDA) no matter how bad the script is. The scene at Jack's house is gold.

                        OT Cox on playing Kinsey:

                        Spoiler:
                        In a GW interview Cox said he partially based his portrayal of Kinsey on Senator Orin Hatch, but had to add a little Dr. Stangelove because Hatch was too much of "a straight arrow." That just made me cracked up because I worked for Senator Hatch for several years. He is one of the nicest men you'll ever meet, but I do see some of his mannerisms come through in Cox's performance. And while it's clear that they differ widely on their political views I think the two of them would get along like gangbusters because are both are songwriters who love folk music. I wish I could get those two together.


                        I love the cooperation and trust between Jack and Sam. You can see how much he counts on her, and his joking around with her in front of Col. Chekov tells me he's not afraid to show it.

                        Comment


                          Citizen Joe

                          I love this episode! (I do seem to have a real love/hate relationship with Season 8.) It is IMO the very best clipshow of SG1, and just a dang good episode in it's own right. Yes it is very different, but in a fun, light-hearted kind of way where you feel like the writers and producers are laughing with us, not at us. (The thumbing their noses at the fans happens later on down the road, unfortunately).

                          Complaint first. It's a big one, but it's only tangentially related to the episode. I have come to despise the communication stones. They started out as this quirky, seemingly innocuous piece of ancient technology that gaves us this funny little story. But hereafter their function and purpose become so wildly inconsistent from episode to episode as to pass the bounds of even my high level of credulity (and I really don't care much about the techy aspects of the show). Worst of all, and beyond all limits for me, they become the means for perpetratating acts of transcorporeal sexual abuse in that atrocity that is SGU (and this is what really slammed the nail in the coffin of that show for me.)

                          But before all that, there was Joe Spencer who I adore. I love that he is the obsessed fan that can't stop talking about the show and all his friends and family just don't get him. We see the whole story of SG1 unfold for Joe the way it did for us. Dan Castallaneta is brilliant (and I had no idea he was Homer the first time I watched this, but I love the Simpsons tie in).

                          Little known fact:
                          Spoiler:
                          The episode of The Simpson that RDA appeared in was written by Castallaneta.


                          Let me skip now to the ending. I don't think they told Charlene everything (although she would have been a much lower security risk than ). But I think Jack did want to help Joe patch things up with his wife by showing her that he, at least, is real.

                          I do love the shippy hints in the episode. The phone call between Jack and Sam in the corridor is great for several reasons. First, I love the casual friendly banter. This is how I picture them post-S8 once they're in a long distance relationship and depending on regular phone calls to stay connected.

                          Second, the call itself is so mysterious. Why did Sam want to see Jack on Monday? Was the weekend discussion just about finding a time they could meet about work or were they moving into a more personal conversation? Why didn't Sam have any plans for the weekend?

                          Personally I think Sam called about making a work-related appointment for Monday, but was getting off track when they started discussing the weekend. She may not have had plans with because he was working, but really we have had absolutely no mention of him since Affinity. Then all of a sudden in Threads the wedding is nearly upon us?! I don't expect her to discuss it with Jack, but I don't think she talks about it with anyone, including (but I'll say more about that when we get to Threads). And it doesn't seem to bother her one bit that she doesn't have plans with (or really time for) . Nope, her actions and attitude just say to me that she doesn't love . He's a convenience and a salve to her conscience about not trying to have some kind of a life outside of the SGC. And yes, she is with because Jack is unavailable to her. If Jack were available, she would be with him. I have no doubt on that score, and I'll never believe otherwise.

                          Oh but how I love Joe's insight into Jack's feelings for Sam and Sam's stupidity in regard to . I totally agree with Aka's point about the depth of Jack's feelings bleeding through (great insight). It's exactly how I view the show. Even in the non-shippy episodes and moments the chemistry between them makes it impossible for me to not see the love they share. It's just there. It's foundational to and permeates their relationship.

                          Finally, the little Kerry hint was just devious. There's no way anyone could have caught on to that on first viewing. It just doesn't register until after you've seen Threads. A nice set up to make it seem like this relationship didn't come out of nowhere (although it really did mostly come out of nowhere).

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Gumarx View Post
                            All of these separate storylines are tied together in the end, not only in the story but visually. We rapidly are switching scenes as each group fights their final battles – Jack and the SGC are fighting to hold back the replicators, Teal’c and the Jaffa are fighting against the replicator ships, and Sam is fighting back the replicators on Dakara. Although in different places, fighting different battles, everyone is visually pulled together as the scenes are rapidly linked.
                            This is actually one of my favorite scenes. Teal'c on the hatak vessel, shields are gone, his ship is about to be fired upon, and the look on his face suggests to me that he thinks the end is at hand and he's about to die.

                            Switching to Sam, surrounded by Jaffa, all firing at the oncoming replicators.

                            Switching to Jack, next to Reynolds, both firing at the oncoming replicators.

                            Switching to Daniel, as he dies (yes, again).

                            This is very team-y to me. They may not be together physically, but they are all doing the same thing - fighting to destroy the replicators.

                            I'm not quite sure what I'm attempting to say here, but I find it interesting to see how Teal'c is reacting to impending death. Jack and Sam are basically doing the exact same thing in different locations - shooting at them. And Daniel has actually died. Sam and Jack are sort of sandwiched between their two teammates, who are experiencing almost the same thing, but one lives and one dies, while the middle two are still fighting.

                            And then the battle is over!

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                              Just picking up on something hlndncr said - and very sorry if I misunderstood!!

                              And yes, she is with because Jack is unavailable to her. If Jack were available, she would be with him. I have no doubt on that score, and I'll never believe otherwise.
                              Sure, yes if Jack had become available and they'd both realised that the other still loved them back in early S7 or before I have now doubt they would have gotten together (like they are now), but I *think* the previous point was that there's a difference between
                              Sam being with Pete *because* Jack is unavailable
                              Sam staying with Pete *because* Jack is unavailable
                              Sam leaving Pete as soon as Jack is available
                              Sam being with Jack because he's available

                              (by available I mean both no regs, no girlfriend)

                              I think Chimera may have started because of 1 but I think come Threads numbers 2 and 3 *aren't true*. I'm obviously jumping the gun here and should wait for threads as I'm sure I'm confusing everyone including myself
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                                Great discussions on Reckoning etc everyone! My brain is a little fried right now as I've just finished writing up Threads (fair warning for you all, it's a little epic... ) so I can't quite face writing too much at this point, but there's a few points from recent posts I want to pick up on

                                Firstly, on Sam's relationship with Pete (and again, trying not to anticipate what I've just been writing for the Threads review)...

                                Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View Post
                                That's one of my main sticking point regarding Sam's feelings for Pete. She's been down this road before, she's gone through the emotional process of falling in love with someone and choosing to commit herself to that relationship. Now one could argue, and perhaps in the aftermath Sam herself may now believe, that she never loved Jonas because she ended up breaking off the engagement, but that's judging the situation with the benefit of hindsight IMO, and without knowing the details of their breakup. With regards to Pete, we as viewers (or reviewers really ) know that they break up, but Sam is not there yet. And I personally don't see much of a difference between how Sam feels and what she's convinced herself she feels, and I don't think the show provides us with enough material to truly tease those two apart.

                                My other sticking point is that if she didn't love Pete, or didn't fully convinced herself that she loved him up to this point, then she would have already broken it off with him. She broke up with Jonas where, as far as we know, there wasn't anyone else she had feelings for, and she's no stranger to being single or moving on alone in the wake of a broken engagement. So I just can't see Sam staying with Pete even if she didn't love him, just because Jack is still unavailable. I think she definitely still has feelings for Jack, but I don't think that's incompatible with her have feelings for Pete as well, they occupy different places in her heart IMHO.
                                I agree. I think Sam certainly convinces herself she loves Pete for most of the time they're together - I think at first, she wants to love him, because she is trying to move on from her feelings for Jack. And it kind of becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy - I'm sure she's telling herself the whole time that he's a great guy and he really loves her. But I think her love for him all along is a bit of a constructed facade - to quote Daniel, it only works if you don't scratch beneath the surface. Because she is clearly also unsure - as we see from her discussions with herself after his proposal and from the conversation she has with Teal'c in New Order. So I also agree with you, Evenstar that it doesn't really matter too much at this point whether she actually loves him or whether she's just convinced herself that she does. However, when it comes to the crunch and the house of cards comes tumbling down, then it makes a heck of a difference, and in fact, it's why she can't go through with the wedding in the end, because she doesn't really love him, just thought that she did.

                                Originally posted by hedwig View Post
                                The bolded part is one of my biggest grumbles about this ship. Jack decides what he thinks is best for her; he doesn't give her the chance or the choice of deciding what is best for her in this matter. Maybe he's allowed to do that where work is concerned, but he has no right to do that about her private life. It just infuriates me that he does that. I keep wanting to say something like "stop acting like her father and be a man about your feelings for her, and just tell her", and see how fast she chooses him. All this is just me ranting about his behavior/attitude, and it's unlikely I will ever change my mind about it.
                                I don't think that what Jack does is deciding 'for' her. He's deciding for himself to let her go, because he thinks she wants to move on. And because he thinks that that's what she wants, he stands back and chooses not to interfere, not to put up a fight. He's wrong, of course, but he doesn't know that. It's not like he told her to go out with Pete or marry Pete and she's doing it because he wants her to. She's with Pete because she wants to be, at this point, and Jack is not interfering because he thinks she wants to be too. She may interpret his reticence as a sign that he isn't interested, but that's Sam's perception, and again, as with Jack, she's wrong about that but she doesn't realise it. I don't think it's fair to blame Jack - that is in fact crediting him with having that very idea of control over Sam that you're objecting to.

                                Sorry, just realised that sounds a bit harsh, but as far as I'm concerned, it's six of one and half a dozen of the other with them. They both get themselves into this mess, and thankfully they also both (eventually) get themselves out of it.
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