Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Lucycat]

Great review, and comments for Full Alert. I really don't have anything to add.

I did LOVE the scene at the beginning... we see that Jack is always armed, even when going to buy beer!

[Nefer]

Really enjoyed reading your "catching up" reviews, Rachel and Nefer!

Why, thank you! I'm glad someone read it ;-)

Thirdly, I do love to watch glimpses of normal, everyday lives of SG-1 so naturally I dig the scene of Jack returning from shopping or making plans for Friday night poker.

There was way too little of that during the show. But I guess that's also what ff is for.

we see that Jack is always armed, even when going to buy beer!

Well, you never know what will happen at the store!

[Akamaimom]

I know I'm late for "Citizen Joe". I'm working on it now! I promise!

And I've only had a moment to make a cursory scan of all the rest of the reviews, but I have to say that I'm jealous that you all have had time to be here! **pouts and scowls at Real Life**

[Akamaimom]

banner by Sarai.

Review for “Citizen Joe”


This will probably be the shortest review ever! So sorry!

Summary:

This is probably my favorite of the clip-show episodes. Stargate SG-1 outperforms any other show in their treatment of clip-shows, but (in my personal opinion), this one is the best of them. Suffice it to say, however, that I understand that some people simply hate this episode. So, after I finish this (succinct) and glowing review, I fully expect some people to rip into the episode.

Anyhoo. . .

The premise is simple. A Midwestern-American barber named Joe Spencer picks up a stone at a garage sale and immediately can “see” the events befalling a team known as SG-1. Not understanding that he has been affected by a piece of alien technology, he grabs onto the stone and its resultant visions as an escape from his otherwise completely ordinary life. The visions take him from being a regular husband, father, and business owner, to being depressed, unemployed, separated from his family, and doubting his own sanity.


The episode begins with Jack arriving home with a few bags of groceries. He’s talking on his cell phone to Carter, lamenting that he doesn’t have any plans for his weekend. While unpacking his “ingredients” (beer and eggs), he looks up to see a stranger burst through his kitchen door, wielding (somewhat shakily) a handgun. He exclaims, “You ruined my life!”


After the credits run, we are taken into Joe’s world. He and his wife are at a garage sale when he picks up the stone. He is immediately treated to a vision of SG-1, and decides to purchase the oddly-shaped rock. Through the next several years, he is shown dozens of views into the exploits of SG-1. He starts telling the stories to his family, and then to his clients and the other people in his town, and finally, he starts writing them as works of fiction and attempting to have them published.

His attempts at getting his stories in print fail, however, and soon he is spending so much time talking about SG-1 and their adventures that the people around him lose their patience with him. His business begins to fail, his employees jump ship, and ultimately, his wife and son leave him.

Alone, lost, and depressed, he tracks O’Neill down and threatens him with the gun. At first Jack threatens to take Joe to a psychological facility, but when he learns just how much Joe knows about the Stargate, Jack takes him to the SGC, where he undergoes some testing, and is found to be normal and healthy, except for the fact that he shares the Ancient Gene with O’Neill. Daniel recalls a stone in his collection that is similar to Joe’s, and the mystery is solved. The stones, used in later episodes, are communication stones that allow the users to see each other’s thoughts. It is decided that he must have been exposed to Jack’s thoughts while the then-Colonel was writing his mission reports. Daniel questions if the communication went two ways, and whether Jack had seen images of Joe’s life over the years. Jack finally fesses up that he had, and makes comments about Joe’s skill in the bowling alley.

In the end, Jack agrees to meet with Joe’s wife and explain that her husband wasn’t nuts and that his exposure to the stones was over. The episode ends with a great crane shot drifting up and away from a (FINE!!) uniformed O’Neill speaking with Mrs. Spencer.


The Writing:


I think that this is where the writers started showing just how much fun they have making fun of themselves. The characters in Joe’s life poke fun at his stories, in much the same way that fans have questioned various unfulfilled plot points in the show over the years.

Some notable topics:

Furlings.
The possibility of Jack leaving behind an unborn child in “100 Days”.
The ridiculous pronunciation of “Goa-uld”. (“Why don’t you just call them the snake people?”)
The relative involvedness of the show in relation to other sci-fi series. (“It’s not confusing, it’s complex!”)
“I’ve seen this movie. It hits Paris.”
“How many times can they save the planet?”
Teal’c’s changes in appearance. (“Didn’t you used to be more gold?”)
The Wormhole Extreme fiasco,
In reference to the stories and their reception by publishers, “And they were all rejected?” (A reflection on Jack’s writing ability.)

And there are many more.


In some ways, this show is a precursor to “200”, where the writers go even more overboard in self-parody. But unlike “200”, where the episode assiduously avoided being useful in any way (but giving us those WONDERFUL wedding pics), “Citizen Joe” actually introduces the means by which a whole new plotline can be opened up. The stones are what take Daniel and Vala into the world of the Ori.


Guest Stars:

Given the rather blatant adoration that Jack shows for ‘The Simpsons”, I thought it fitting that Joe Spencer should be played by the same man who gave us Homer. Dan Castelleneta shows during this episode, however, that he has some serious acting chops. His performance is nuanced and poignant, without becoming maudlin.

As his wife Sharlene, Deborah Theaker comes across as caring and earnest. I enjoy her performance, as do I that of the various boys that play their son, Andy.

The townspeople are fun—and I thoroughly enjoyed the performances of the employees in the barber shop.


Jack: I love the fact that he barely even seems fazed by Joe’s sudden appearance in his kitchen. It’s a testament to the fact that he’s seen much odder things that a barber wielding a weapon. He seems more embarrassed by the fact that he’s seen into Joe’s life than the fact that Joe’s seen into his.



Sam and Jack: They are talking on the phone together in the beginning of the episode. Their conversation is easy, comfortable, and friendly. I think that this is important because it shows how close they are, and the level of intimacy that they have grown to share. Most notable, of course, is the fact that their “relationship” is seen by Joe even through the clips that he’s seen of their missions. He also considers Pete to be a mistake, as is shown by his reaction to seeing Sam in the infirmary. His mention of Pete is shushed by Jack, and Sam merely gives him a quizzical look as she looks to Jack for more answers. But I think that this is a sign that the writers are cognizant of the fans’ wish for confirmation. To make that particular thing available to Joe through the stones means that even when Jack is writing his reports, he is still thinking of Sam and caring for Sam. The depth of emotion that it would take to pass that through such a device must be profound.


Great quotes:

Daniel: “He broke into your house?”

Jack looks sheepish. “Yeah.”

Daniel: “Second week in a row.”

Jack looks even more sheepish. “Mm-hmm.”

Daniel: “Alarm.”

Jack: “I’m thinking dog.”

Joe: “You could try locking your front door.”




Teal’c enters briefing room. Joe stands, clasps Teal’c’s forearm, and says, “Shel kek nim ron.”



Teal’c again, in discussing where Joe had acquired the stone, “A garage sale.”


So, there you have it. Let the discussion begin!

[iiradned]

Sam and Jack: They are talking on the phone together in the beginning of the episode. Their conversation is easy, comfortable, and friendly. I think that this is important because it shows how close they are, and the level of intimacy that they have grown to share. Most notable, of course, is the fact that their “relationship” is seen by Joe even through the clips that he’s seen of their missions. He also considers Pete to be a mistake, as is shown by his reaction to seeing Sam in the infirmary. His mention of Pete is shushed by Jack, and Sam merely gives him a quizzical look as she looks to Jack for more answers. But I think that this is a sign that the writers are cognizant of the fans’ wish for confirmation. To make that particular thing available to Joe through the stones means that even when Jack is writing his reports, he is still thinking of Sam and caring for Sam. The depth of emotion that it would take to pass that through such a device must be profound.

The above bolded is where I am in most empathic agreement with you.

[josiane]

Great review, Akamaimom! I love Citizen Joe too and agree it's by far the best of SG1's clip shows

I think that this is where the writers started showing just how much fun they have making fun of themselves. The characters in Joe’s life poke fun at his stories, in much the same way that fans have questioned various unfulfilled plot points in the show over the years.

I love this about this episode! It's gently poking fun at both the writing and the fans reactions, and is really a fans' tour through the last eight seasons. I really love the progression of all the final six episodes of the season, tbh - they're really set up as a fantastic last hurrah for SG1 (when they didn't think there'd be any more). First we have Citizen Joe, which is a giant wink to the fans, then we get the meaty climax of all the story arcs in Reckoning, then Threads ties everything up nice and neatly, and then we get Moebius, which is another playful last hurrah, but this time for the team itself. I always get to the end of season 8 feeling immensely satisfied, and I think it's because narratively it got such a good send off

In some ways, this show is a precursor to “200”, where the writers go even more overboard in self-parody. But unlike “200”, where the episode assiduously avoided being useful in any way (but giving us those WONDERFUL wedding pics), “Citizen Joe” actually introduces the means by which a whole new plotline can be opened up. The stones are what take Daniel and Vala into the world of the Ori.

Given the above, of course, this was entirely accidental, but the SG1 writers have proved themselves nothing if not inventive when it comes to extrapolating giant stories from what seems like a relatively minor and irrelevant detail

Sam and Jack: They are talking on the phone together in the beginning of the episode. Their conversation is easy, comfortable, and friendly. I think that this is important because it shows how close they are, and the level of intimacy that they have grown to share. Most notable, of course, is the fact that their “relationship” is seen by Joe even through the clips that he’s seen of their missions. He also considers Pete to be a mistake, as is shown by his reaction to seeing Sam in the infirmary. His mention of Pete is shushed by Jack, and Sam merely gives him a quizzical look as she looks to Jack for more answers. But I think that this is a sign that the writers are cognizant of the fans’ wish for confirmation. To make that particular thing available to Joe through the stones means that even when Jack is writing his reports, he is still thinking of Sam and caring for Sam. The depth of emotion that it would take to pass that through such a device must be profound.

Oh yes, lovely And I love how they are with each other in that phone conversation - a nice reminder of the connection between them that Pete can get nowhere near (as Joe helpfully reminds us too).

As for what you say about everyone else, yep, totally agree

[Nefer]

Has anyone else noticed what they're saying in their phone-conversation? They're making plans and Jack's talking about having to meet with (I'm paraphrasing since I haven't watched the episode again now) 'Someone named Johnson-or-other of the CIA'. Wasn't Kerry's last name Johnson and wasn't she with the CIA? Call me crazy, but in my mind the only explanation for this (except for a failure on the writer's part) is the following:

Considering Sam and Jack seeming to make some plans to spend time together, Sam's giddy smile and the fact that we have NEVER before seen them have this kind of conversation, at least never in such a comfortable manner, is for me the ultimate proof that they did get their act together and have at least (finally) had some sort of conversation about you know what ;-) If not actually started a relationship. It's just so ... palpable. For me, this is confirmation and I never needed anything else, personally. So Jack has this official business with Kerry and he wants to convey to Sam that he realizes this must be an issue for her, so he play-pretends to not even know who that Johnson of the CIA is. Even though he knows that she knows that he knows. You know?

This may sound far-fetched to you, but it's the way I interpreted the scene when I saw the episode for the first time and I wasn't even a shipper then.


Apart from that I agree with all of you that Citizen Joe is the best of the SG1-clip shows. I didn't even realize it was one ;-) Brilliant! Unfortunately this seems to have been the peak, since I cannot stand 200.

[hedwig]

Considering Sam and Jack seeming to make some plans to spend time together, Sam's giddy smile and the fact that we have NEVER before seen them have this kind of conversation, at least never in such a comfortable manner, is for me the ultimate proof that they did get their act together and have at least (finally) had some sort of conversation about you know what ;-) If not actually started a relationship. It's just so ... palpable. For me, this is confirmation and I never needed anything else, personally. So Jack has this official business with Kerry and he wants to convey to Sam that he realizes this must be an issue for her, so he play-pretends to not even know who that Johnson of the CIA is. Even though he knows that she knows that he knows. You know?

I never got that impression. I always had the feeling that Jack had never met Agent Johnson and didn't even know it was a woman he was meeting with.

I don't think they would have had any kind of conversation about themselves prior to this phone call, especially with Sam being engaged to Pete. It isn't the kind of conversation Jack would allow given Sam's situation. And I think if they had actually had that kind of conversation, Sam wouldn't still be engaged to Pete.

My problem with that scene was that when Jack said he had nothing planned for the weekend, Sam said she didn't either. I find it interesting since she only recently got engaged to Pete, and yet she has nothing planned that weekend? What about spending it with her fiance?

I would have liked an explanation as to why they were even on the phone together at that time of day, with her on the hallway phone at the SGC, and him talking to her on his cell phone as he's coming in the door from food and beer shopping.

[Nefer]

Waaaaiiiiit a cotton-picking minute ...

On my DVDs the episode order (and thus the order I always watched them in) is:

Full Alert
Reckoning (I+II)
Threads
Citizen Joe
Moebius

What's that about?
So for me this telephone conversation is happening after she broke up with Pete and Jacob died. In that case it would make sense though, right?

[hedwig]

Waaaaiiiiit a cotton-picking minute ...

On my DVDs the episode order (and thus the order I always watched them in) is:

Full Alert
Reckoning (I+II)
Threads
Citizen Joe
Moebius

What's that about?
So for me this telephone conversation is happening after she broke up with Pete and Jacob died. In that case it would make sense though, right?

I think I read that on some of those DVD sets, the episodes were listed out of order. It should be:

Full Alert
Citizen Joe
Reckoning
Threads
Moebius

This is the order it was shown when the series was still on the air.

And Kerry dumped Jack in Threads, so it wouldn't make sense that he'd be trying to hide a relationship with her if Citizen Joe came between Threads and Moebius.

[Nefer]

I think I read that on some of those DVD sets, the episodes were listed out of order. It should be:

Full Alert
Citizen Joe
Reckoning
Threads
Moebius

This is the order it was shown when the series was still on the air.

Damn, that throws off my whole interpretion of the ship! I've been watching it this way for years. Great. Well, I guess I'm gonna stay with 'my order' interpretation-wise cause ... gah! But please consider my previous two posts moot.

In that case the whole scene doesn't make any sense.

My problem with that scene was that when Jack said he had nothing planned for the weekend, Sam said she didn't either. I find it interesting since she only recently got engaged to Pete, and yet she has nothing planned that weekend? What about spending it with her fiance?

I would have liked an explanation as to why they were even on the phone together at that time of day, with her on the hallway phone at the SGC, and him talking to her on his cell phone as he's coming in the door from food and beer shopping.

It's just weird what with all the flirting going on.

And Kerry dumped Jack in Threads, so it wouldn't make sense that he'd be trying to hide a relationship with her if Citizen Joe came between Threads and Moebius.

I didn't mean he was hiding a relationship, but on the contrary that he was trying to make clear that it was over between them (which it would be if CZ was in between Threads and Moebius).

[hedwig]

Damn, that throws off my whole interpretion of the ship! I've been watching it this way for years. Great. Well, I guess I'm gonna stay with 'my order' interpretation-wise cause ... gah! But please consider my previous two posts moot.

In that case the whole scene doesn't make any sense.



It's just weird what with all the flirting going on.

I iz sowwy. I didn't mean to spoil your interpretation. I can see how you would think that, though, if you thought the episodes were in the order you had. There was some discussion around here quite some time back about different sets of DVDs having the episodes listed out of order. Luckily, I don't have one of those DVD sets.

And, yes, that whole conversation (while cute and flirty) just didn't make a lot of sense when Sam is newly engaged to another guy. But maybe being engaged, they both felt more comfortable somehow in feeling a little flirty again (like they used to do in the earlier years). Although somehow that doesn't make a lot of sense either.

[Aveo_amacus]

I think the phone call shows that the 'cold feet' that Sam gets in Threads isn't a new thing. She doesn't have plans with her fiance and is chatting on the phone with her CO... tell you anything

[Nefer]

*smack* forehead to table!

THAT'S how Jack met Kerry! You have to forgive me, I'm seeing all this in a whole new light now that I know the correct viewing order

But maybe being engaged, they both felt more comfortable somehow in feeling a little flirty again (like they used to do in the earlier years). Although somehow that doesn't make a lot of sense either.

It's the only explanation though. Along with this:

I think the phone call shows that the 'cold feet' that Sam gets in Threads isn't a new thing. She doesn't have plans with her fiance and is chatting on the phone with her CO... tell you anything

One thing that's really bugging me: what WERE S/J planning to do together that they didn't talk about face to face on the base? Hm?

[hedwig]

*smack* forehead to table!

THAT'S how Jack met Kerry! You have to forgive me, I'm seeing all this in a whole new light now that I know the correct viewing order



It's the only explanation though. Along with this:



One thing that's really bugging me: what WERE S/J planning to do together that they didn't talk about face to face on the base? Hm?

I didn't have the impression they were planning to do anything together. They were just talking about what plans each might have for the weekend, and neither had any. Except that Jack was planning on making some of his "world famous omelettes" with a secret ingredient (beer). But even that notion doesn't explain anything, since I never got the impression they ever just chatted on the phone when neither had much to do.

The only other time anything remotely like this came up was in "Lost City" when Sam showed up at his door and said she couldn't sleep the night before, and Jack said she should have called him. I always wondered when he or they had gotten so chummy that one would call the other in the middle of the night because they couldn't sleep.

(*p.s. - I smack my head on the table or wall quite often when I realize something. In fact, my Mom said I did it a lot when I was a child and she never could figure out why. Explains a lot about me, maybe.*)