Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Lucycat]

Gemini
I have a hard time watching this episode because of how Sam is so easily duped by the replicator. I felt it was very unlike the Air-Force to allow Carter to interrogate the replicator that was formed in her image and programmed with her memories. She is too close to the situation, and, obviously, too easily swayed. She believes the replicator too easily because of her own feelings. It's clear that Jack doesn't want to deal with the replicator, but he allows Carter to persuade him. In as much as Carter blames herself in the end (which she should, imo) I'm sure Jack can't help but feel the brunt as well, because he allowed Carter to do what she wanted.

Amanda did an awesome job playing the evil Carter. Too bad she was killed off so quickly, within the same season. It would have been nice (as hlndncer mentioned) to have had a final face off with Sam and the replicator. I know it was probably because the producers thought Season 8 was the final season, and they wanted to wrap everything up. Oh well... opportunity wasted!


Prometheus Unbound
I like Daniel and Vala, but this episode was a bit too slap-sticky for Stargate, imo. Their fight scenes reminded me of the Three Stooges. And the lady hiccuping wasn't that funny, either, but I did laugh when Walter pushed the glass of water toward her in the conference room.

I liked the scene at the beginning with Jack, Daniel and Hammond. However, I never understood why Jack is so adamant about Daniel not going to Atlantis. Yes, they are good friends, but that should not influence Jack's decisions as a General. Daniel is the expert on the Ancients, so, he should have been allowed to go to Atlantis, imo. Heck, he probably should have been assigned to the expedition!

I also agree with Josi that I thought it was weird that Hammond was allowed to assign himself as the leader of Prometheus... are they really allowed to do that? Seems to be the ultimate case of favoritism to assign yourself the plumb assignment!

[maneth]

I definitely agree that Daniel Jackson should've been assigned to the Atlantis expedition. You can never have too much Daniel, IMO. I didn't really start to ship Daniel and Vala until Unending. Some slapstick is good, but too much is too much.

[Sarai]

Amazing banner made by Black Kitten

It’s Good to be King

Synopsis
The pre credit sequence begins with an update on how the war with the Goa’uld is fairing. The Tok’ra have been in contact with the SGC regarding Harry Maybourne who the team dropped off on an uninhabited planet a couple of years ago. SG1 convince General O’Neill it would be advisable to go and rescue Maybourne from the marauding and devasted bands of Goa’uld. SG1 travel to the planet, only to find Maybourne has installed himself as leader of a primitive race of humans and has taken on the title ‘King Arkon’.

After the credits and into Act One, it becomes clear that Maybourne is aware of the imminent arrival of the Goa’uld, and much to SG1’s scepticism he explains how he can “read the future”. He shows the team a set of Ancient ruins that predict events of the future – events Maybourne can read. The ruins seem to suggest that when the Goa’uld come, SG1 will be able to defeat them and restore order to the planet. In translating the ruins, Daniel uncovers some text relating to an Ancient time travel device. The team break off in search of the device, all the while the threat of the Goa’uld looming. Teal’c eventually finds a ship – the first puddle jumper! – but quickly establish they will need someone with the Ancient gene to activate it.

Cue General O’Neill! Jack makes his way to the ship and attempts to activate it to no avail. Carter quickly figures out that the energy source has been depleted and as O’Neill tries again the ship comes to life…aaaand overloads! O’Neill decides it’s too risky to wait any longer and orders Carter and Daniel to plant C4 around the ship. Just at that moment the three are surrounded by the villagers, suspicious of their motives towards ‘King Arkon’.

Back at the village, Maybourne tells the villagers it is imperative they leave before the Goa’uld arrive. He explains to them that he is not a seer and has lied to them. The villagers list the accomplishments of Maybourne, such as the legal system, that he didn’t get from the prophecies and the villagers rally around him, much to the bafflement of SG1. On their way back to the gate, however, Daniel and Teal’c watch in horror as Jaffa step through…time has run out.

Invading the village, the Jaffa quickly learn of the prophecies and head to the ruins. Having made their way to the jumper to destroy it, O’Neill and Carter find they cannot as they will give up their position. They attempt to work on the ship to fix it as a means of escape. By this time the Jaffa have read the ruins and start to search for the ship. Jack fires on the Jaffa as soon as they get near the ship, exposing their position and that there are Tau’ri on the planet. Daniel and Teal’c are quickly discovered in the village and questioned by the First Prime. Amazingly, Jack manages to power the ship and they take off, flying over the village. In the confusion, Teal’c and Daniel manage to fight with the guarding Jaffa and Teal’c kills the First Prime.

Jack and Sam exit the atmosphere, only to be confronted by a Goa’uld mothership. Firing on the vessel, they manage to destroy it with the only round of weapons the jumper has (lucky, eh?!) and fly on back to the planet. The team say goodbye to Maybourne and head back to Earth, leaving him as King Arkon.

Analysis

I’m so glad I got to do It’s Good to be King, because I just love it! It’s one of those fun-filled, lighter episodes with some of the best one liners! In case you haven’t watched it again before reading the review amongst my favourites would be…

“Long walks along with rainy nights and candle lit dinners…”
“Remember…it’s good to be king”
“Man I miss going off world”
“You’re doing great sir…relatively speaking”
“Wives? D’oh”



In terms of analysis because it’s a bit of a filler ep, there isn’t a great deal. It’s another great ep for Harry and rounds off his story arc nicely whilst also giving us an update on where we are with the war against the Goa’uld since the arrival of the Kull warriors. It’s another chance to see O’Neill off world again, something uncommon for Season 8 in his new role.

Implications for Sam/Jack

Again, there are no implications for S/J that come screaming out of this ep. There are however some wonderful fluffy moments, thanks in part because it’s such a light hearted episode. My best shippy moments would be in the jumper when O’Neill takes off his hat and Carter stares at his hair. You know she’s just thinking *ruffle**ruffle**ruffle* ; when they are surrounded by the villagers and she pulls a handgun out of Jack’s leg strap, nothing really but oh sooo guttery, hehe! In the jumper after they have destroyed the mothership and Sam says “relatively speaking” for the second time, it’s a cute little joke that she can make with her superior because of the relationship they have. Plus he grin is gorgeous (pretty sure that’s what Jack is thinking as well ). They finally right at the end where Sam says “Wives?!” with this incredulous look on her face and Jack just ushers her off back to the gate. Again, it’s nothing big but it’s definite flirting from him and just makes me smile every time!

[Zoser]

Spoiler:

Amazing banner made by Black Kitten

It’s Good to be King

Synopsis
The pre credit sequence begins with an update on how the war with the Goa’uld is fairing. The Tok’ra have been in contact with the SGC regarding Harry Maybourne who the team dropped off on an uninhabited planet a couple of years ago. SG1 convince General O’Neill it would be advisable to go and rescue Maybourne from the marauding and devasted bands of Goa’uld. SG1 travel to the planet, only to find Maybourne has installed himself as leader of a primitive race of humans and has taken on the title ‘King Arkon’.

After the credits and into Act One, it becomes clear that Maybourne is aware of the imminent arrival of the Goa’uld, and much to SG1’s scepticism he explains how he can “read the future”. He shows the team a set of Ancient ruins that predict events of the future – events Maybourne can read. The ruins seem to suggest that when the Goa’uld come, SG1 will be able to defeat them and restore order to the planet. In translating the ruins, Daniel uncovers some text relating to an Ancient time travel device. The team break off in search of the device, all the while the threat of the Goa’uld looming. Teal’c eventually finds a ship – the first puddle jumper! – but quickly establish they will need someone with the Ancient gene to activate it.

Cue General O’Neill! Jack makes his way to the ship and attempts to activate it to no avail. Carter quickly figures out that the energy source has been depleted and as O’Neill tries again the ship comes to life…aaaand overloads! O’Neill decides it’s too risky to wait any longer and orders Carter and Daniel to plant C4 around the ship. Just at that moment the three are surrounded by the villagers, suspicious of their motives towards ‘King Arkon’.

Back at the village, Maybourne tells the villagers it is imperative they leave before the Goa’uld arrive. He explains to them that he is not a seer and has lied to them. The villagers list the accomplishments of Maybourne, such as the legal system, that he didn’t get from the prophecies and the villagers rally around him, much to the bafflement of SG1. On their way back to the gate, however, Daniel and Teal’c watch in horror as Jaffa step through…time has run out.

Invading the village, the Jaffa quickly learn of the prophecies and head to the ruins. Having made their way to the jumper to destroy it, O’Neill and Carter find they cannot as they will give up their position. They attempt to work on the ship to fix it as a means of escape. By this time the Jaffa have read the ruins and start to search for the ship. Jack fires on the Jaffa as soon as they get near the ship, exposing their position and that there are Tau’ri on the planet. Daniel and Teal’c are quickly discovered in the village and questioned by the First Prime. Amazingly, Jack manages to power the ship and they take off, flying over the village. In the confusion, Teal’c and Daniel manage to fight with the guarding Jaffa and Teal’c kills the First Prime.

Jack and Sam exit the atmosphere, only to be confronted by a Goa’uld mothership. Firing on the vessel, they manage to destroy it with the only round of weapons the jumper has (lucky, eh?!) and fly on back to the planet. The team say goodbye to Maybourne and head back to Earth, leaving him as King Arkon.

Analysis

I’m so glad I got to do It’s Good to be King, because I just love it! It’s one of those fun-filled, lighter episodes with some of the best one liners! In case you haven’t watched it again before reading the review amongst my favourites would be…

“Long walks along with rainy nights and candle lit dinners…”
“Remember…it’s good to be king”
“Man I miss going off world”
“You’re doing great sir…relatively speaking”
“Wives? D’oh”



In terms of analysis because it’s a bit of a filler ep, there isn’t a great deal. It’s another great ep for Harry and rounds off his story arc nicely whilst also giving us an update on where we are with the war against the Goa’uld since the arrival of the Kull warriors. It’s another chance to see O’Neill off world again, something uncommon for Season 8 in his new role.

Implications for Sam/Jack

Again, there are no implications for S/J that come screaming out of this ep. There are however some wonderful fluffy moments, thanks in part because it’s such a light hearted episode. My best shippy moments would be in the jumper when O’Neill takes off his hat and Carter stares at his hair. You know she’s just thinking *ruffle**ruffle**ruffle* ; when they are surrounded by the villagers and she pulls a handgun out of Jack’s leg strap, nothing really but oh sooo guttery, hehe! In the jumper after they have destroyed the mothership and Sam says “relatively speaking” for the second time, it’s a cute little joke that she can make with her superior because of the relationship they have. Plus he grin is gorgeous (pretty sure that’s what Jack is thinking as well ). They finally right at the end where Sam says “Wives?!” with this incredulous look on her face and Jack just ushers her off back to the gate. Again, it’s nothing big but it’s definite flirting from him and just makes me smile every time!

Someday I plan to watch all the Maybourne episodes to the see the transition of that creepy guy into one of my favorite side characters.
This episode brings Jack back into the field - we miss it as much as he does - Jack in action!.

I've often wondered who carved the columns with the prophecies - someone who witnessed it and could use a puddle jumper perhaps?

[Sarai]

I've often wondered who carved the columns with the prophecies - someone who witnessed it and could use a puddle jumper perhaps?

I was thinking about this when watching the ep yesterday and totally forgot to write anything about it

I always wonder if the Ancient from the past was one of the villagers and if so, which one it was. Plus to have written almost the entire history of the village they would have to work out a way to remain incognito and not give away the fact that they were doing so, for quite a few years! Having said that, they say that the "prophecies" are carved in Ancient but they don't actually say it was an Ancient who carved them - possibly someone with the Ancient gene? Who knows, the possibilities are endless !

And I think watching all the Maybourne eps would be great fun, he's a great character both as a bad guy and a 'good' guy

[Catygirl]

Love Love Love this episode!!!!

Has some of the funniest lines from season 8 in it. The relationship between Jack and Harry became one of the great things on the side about SG1.

The one liners and looks between Sam and Jack are great but do leave me thinking why oh why is she still with the other guy when Jack is right there????

Oh well. Thanks for the review. Really nice to go over old episodes and be reminded of how good it was first time round.

[Lucycat]

Great review! This is one of my favs, too. I enjoy seeing Wayne Brady as the bad guy. He was in a comic improv show called Whose Line is it Anyway? with Drew Carey. He was always funny. I also heard he was a fan of Stargate and was excited to get the part (I think it was mentioned on the commentary).

Love the great relationship that developed between Jack and Mayborne. I think it was Jack's influence over the years that helped Mayborne find that shred of decency the existed within

Nice having Jack go off world again, too. I suppose it was just habit that he took the lead, but it would have been nice if he let Carter stay in charge. He looks so nice in his black t-shirt, and I enjoyed the line... "Oh, if I had a nickel" when the natives told him to drop his weapon.

And Sam grabbing his side-arm... that's always good

[hedwig]

Great review! This is one of my favs, too. I enjoy seeing Wayne Brady as the bad guy. He was in a comic improv show called Whose Line is it Anyway? with Drew Carey. He was always funny. I also heard he was a fan of Stargate and was excited to get the part (I think it was mentioned on the commentary).

He also had his own talk show for several years, and RDA was a frequent guest on the show. I wonder if RDA pulled some strings to get him the guest spot?

[sg-1fanintn]

For those who would like to play, the S/J Shippers are celebrating Jack & Sam today, Saturday, February 19, from 12-midnight until 12-midnight (Eastern US time).

It's Valenship...celebrating a little late this time because AT5 was last weekend.

The party is here: http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...am-Celebration

All who wish to celebrate are welcome!

[josiane]

Great review, Sarai! I love this ep too, such a fun, teamy one and lots of lovely comfortable S/Jness

I was thinking about this when watching the ep yesterday and totally forgot to write anything about it

I always wonder if the Ancient from the past was one of the villagers and if so, which one it was. Plus to have written almost the entire history of the village they would have to work out a way to remain incognito and not give away the fact that they were doing so, for quite a few years! Having said that, they say that the "prophecies" are carved in Ancient but they don't actually say it was an Ancient who carved them - possibly someone with the Ancient gene? Who knows, the possibilities are endless !

And I think watching all the Maybourne eps would be great fun, he's a great character both as a bad guy and a 'good' guy

I kind of wonder if there wasn't some time travel going on at some point, and an Ancient got stranded or something. I'm sure I read a fic at one point along those lines, but can't now remember what

Maybourne's evolution through the series is a great one - I caught half of Shades of Grey on TV the other day and was oddly surprised at how evil he is back then! It's like, with him becoming at first a slippery, snakey, reluctant ally, and then gradually becoming essentially that crazy, but still not-to-be-trusted friend who shows up every now and then like a bad penny that you just roll your eyes at, it's easy to forget how unpleasant he was back in the early days.

[Rachel500]

So, I'm catching up as real life has been difficult since the start of the year and I haven't had a chance to comment on some of the reviews.

Zero Hour

Great review, Josi.

This wasn't a fave on first viewing but when I eventually rewatched it, it became a favourite because I do think it shows Jack's arc for S8 in a big way: that conflict between his head and heart in determining decisions that affected SG1.

Sam and Jack

Ah, Jack. You have to feel for Jack in Zero Hour because it would seem that for the first initial weeks with the events of lockdown, he's managed to hold off being without SG1 at the SGC, and some of his reluctance I think of sending them offworld is his own unconscious fear of 'how am I going to do this without them?' as well as his fear of not being with them offworld to watch their backs. I love the letter to Hammond (I would have loved to have seen/heard the entirety of it not just the snippets). And I love how the rest of the SGC comes through for Jack, supporting him in the absence of SG1, and how Jack manages to find his own way through the chaos at the SGC, using his own style of leadership and smarts to solve the problems and deal with Ba'al.

Sam's insecurity about her position is the subplot but it's rather lost in the wider plot of Jack's dilemmas because of the decision to place the audience in Jack's shoes where we think they're captured by Ba'al too, and so it ramps up the angst. In many ways, I rather wish they'd done away with Lockdown, and made this a two-parter with Sam, Daniel and Teal'c being shown trapped on the planet and having to make their escape (ie being shown Sam's leadership of SG1 in the field that Jack comments on later in the corridor).

There is a sense at the beginning that Sam feels that Jack lacks confidence in her, partially rooted no doubt in her own concerns because while she's deputised for Jack before and had command of the occasional mission, this is the first time she's officially going out as 'SG1 Leader'. It's something that Daniel and Teal'c try to assure her is not the case but I think Sam feels it anyway. It's only on her return when she and Jack talk and he's so evidently proud of her performance and assures her that she was great that she seems to relax. I do love that scene because they're just so proud of each other, and it is the sense that they've accepted their new positions and are settling back into their friendship beyond the professional change.

[Rachel500]

Icon

Generally

Great review, EvenstarSRV. Completely agree that my favourite parts of the episode are those where we see Sam 'leading' and I think it's a shame that the story changed in production from one focusing on Sam leading to one focusing on Daniel. I also agree that the Daniel/Jack exchange on whether to go back to the planet is one where the writers effectively 'forget' Sam's leadership role which given she is leading in other respects is bizarre. And frankly I find the idea of Jack allowing Daniel to go back to the planet unrealistic although his indulgence of Daniel I think motivates a lot of his short-temperedness later - he's not so much as snapping at Sam to get it done already as angry at himself for allowing the debacle to happen.

Personally, I much preferred the follow-up story in S9 to this one.

Sam and Jack

Again, I think this is another episode which shows they're both adjusting to their relative positions professionally. Sam does come across as taken aback when Jack snaps at her quite so snappily - partially I think because after Zero Hour, Sam's accepted Jack's view that 'OK, so this change isn't going change things all that much' and his behaviour here is so much of an assertion of his authority that it brings her up short in that regard. I think some of her technobabble later is a friendly kind of payback that Jack inwardly acknowledges he deserves even as he cuts her off.

[Rachel500]

Avatar

Generally

Great review, Petra.

This makes it into my top ten fave episodes of SG1. I love this episode and think it's the best Teal'c episode ever (narrowly beating The Changeling). Mainly because it really does show us a Teal'c that is defeated, the fear that he had that the Goa'uld would be unbeatable, the strength that he found in having SG1 around him, and the immense faith that he has in his team to believe that while he cannot defeat the Goa'uld alone, SG1 can defeat them.

Sam and Jack

There is a lovely back and forth between them; love the 'you've done it again, sir' thing where Jack says something to give Sam an idea of how to solve it. At this point, I think it's clear that they've settled into their roles and their friendship again.

[Rachel500]

Affinity

Generally

Great review, Sarai.

This is actually in my top ten of bad episodes. I think the entire concept isjust badly written. Teal'c, Daniel and Sam are all out of character here for me. Having had the previous episode show they are stronger together, the idea that the three of them each individually decides to go outside of the team to deal with a problem is a little unbelievable to me. If you were Teal'c, wouldn't Jack or Sam or Daniel be the first people you would call when Crista comes to you? If you were Daniel, why on Earth would you decide to tackle being blackmailed by the Trust alone? And why, why does Sam need Pete's help to investigate.

Needless to say I agree with much of hlndncr's rant.

Sam and Jack (and Pete)

So ignoring the fact that this was a bad episode regardless of the engagement nonsense, clearly the engagement adds to that because it comes out of nowhere.

For me, the opening park scene shows that Sam is definitely on a completely different page to Pete in terms of their relationship. He's moving to Colorado Springs, he wants to marry her and have a future together. Yet, Sam seems completely taken aback; she seems vaguely content with their dating and semi-long distance relationship, plus she even comments that they haven't seen a great deal of each other. Now while I wouldn't say Sam is on the verge of breaking up with Pete, my sense of that conversation is that they haven't spent a great deal of time together in the recent past; that Pete is afraid he's losing her and hence his decision to move closer and the marriage proposal.

Sam's hesitation makes sense in that context; she wasn't thinking of marriage as anything more than a vague someday with someone, apparently content with what she has even if she's apologetic about the lack of time she's spent with him, and Pete has forced the issue because let's face it, most relationships don't survive a rejection of a proposal (although I think Pete is insecure enough that he would have tried to continue it after anyway). Plus there are her feelings for Jack. And Sam is at a crossroads; to move forward with Pete, fully commit to him, and give up once and for all on any hope of being with Jack OR to hurt Pete with either a rejection or a 'not now' answer. To me, Sam's uncertainty in her outburst in Daniel's office and in her conversation with Jack, perfectly encapsulate her confusion.

The conversation with Jack in Affinity is definitely ambiguous. For me, Sam shows him the ring in the hopes of provoking a reaction because I think Sam definitely believes at this point that Jack just wants their close and comfortable friendship and nothing more - but she deep down hopes he still feels something for her. So her aim for the conversation is to find out what Jack feels for her. Unfortunately though the way she asks him, almost certainly ensures that she doesn't get the response she wants.

Jack's reaction when faced with the ring is to fall into the good friend act; questioning why she's hesitating. I think Jack is trying to do the right thing and let Sam make up her own mind without him piling his own feelings onto her; trying to be supportive. Plus I think he knows that she needs to make the decision; he cannot make it for her. Unfortuntely, as a result he does come across as encouraging her to marry.

Sam in return almost becomes desperate; coming up with excuse after excuse until finally she slips and asks him something personal. But her question is ambiguous and while I think it's motivated by her need to ask him 'if things were different between them', I think she's aware that it touches on Charlie and forbidden subjects in that regard and so she's quick to look apologetic (she even winces) and I think she believes his answer relates to Charlie, and not to them.

Jack's answer I think is purposefully ambiguous; I think he knows that she believes he's talking about Charlie (that he wouldn't be at the SGC if Charlie had been alive) but I think he replies about them (that he wouldn't be at the SGC if he and Sam were together because he would be retired). I think Jack leaves the conversation hoping Sam makes the decision not to marry Pete but aware that he hasn't really given her a reason not to.

And I think Sam leaves the conversation convinced that there is no future for her and Jack; that her fears are right.

In that respect, and given Pete has been completely supportive of her through the Teal'c stuff, has helped her find Daniel, is there beside her - I think I can just about understand Sam having a moment of madness (I like to think she's offduty even if she's still at the scene) and suddenly thinking; here's this nice guy who wants to be with me, supports me, loves me, who I care deeply about, who I like enormously and who makes me laugh, who gets that I have this strange and whacky job and can live with it, who wants me and shows me he wants me - and why am I even debating this because of feelings I have for someone who loves me as a friend but that's all it is now...and so blurts out the yes. (Although general agreement with everybody including AT that Sam would so not usually do that when she's effectively at work).

I do think the aftermath of this episode though when Jack finds out would have been a doozy for him because I think for me, he thought she was going to turn Pete down. But knowing Sam has accepted Pete's proposal, finally makes Jack think that Sam has decided that her feelings for Jack are in the past and that he has lost any vague future chance that he may have been deep down holding out for. And yet, I think despite his hurt, he would have tried to be happy for her; to let her go believing that's what she wanted and because I think it validated his own belief that a Pete would come along and steal her away eventually since Jack couldn't (and wouldn't to some degree) offer her anything more.

[Rachel500]

Covenant

Generally

Great review, Lucycat.

Hmmm. Nothing much to say on this one because it really stretches the believability of the Stargate programme remaining secret. And I just find the concept flawed.

Sam and Jack

To me, he is slightly grumpy with her and given the previous episode, no wonder.

It is great though seeing Sam fly the F302. That's the best thing about the episode and it was about time.