Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[hlndncr]

Thanks for the great reviews Lucy and Rachel! I finally had some time to sit down and rewatch The Lost City and it was just as awesome as ever. Definitely one of my all-time favorites and some of the best SG-1 ever made. I’m glad it wasn’t the series finale, but it definitely marks the end of an era with so many changes coming in the next season. What a way to go out!

Watching and thinking about these episodes I find that I have a lot of things to say about how it all ties into future episodes; so I’ll save many of my comments for the appropriate time. But there are still so many things to talk about.

Hayes
I said in my review of inauguration that I love this character and I continue to do so here. I do love how he stared down Anubis. (And was it just me or does he seem shorter here than when Daniel confronted him in Full Circle?) I so wish we could have had more of him. For example, it would have been great to see him in Zero Hour getting his first look at the stargate and the SGC. And I really would have liked to see him and Jack interact.

Weir
Personally, I prefer Tori Higginson to Jessica Steen. (Does anyone know why they made the change? It’s very unusual for them to do that. Stargate is very loyal to their actors for the most part.) For me, TH had more gravitas, and was more believable when she goes on to bluff the goa’uld and then transitions into the commander of Atlantis. I know JS was supposed to be a little befuddled as someone who was basically thrown into the deep end, but she just did that a little too well for me to buy her as being strong and in charge. Even when she stood up to Kinsey I still felt like she was depending on Hayes for back up. I don’t think JS did a bad job. There are moments with her I like. I just would have preferred to see TH all the way through.

In terms of her character, I think the trained diplomat side continues to shine through going forward, but they down played her more belligerent anti-military past. Maybe her brief experience at the SGC with top-notch military personnel fighting an advanced alien enemy had her rethinking some of her early notions about issues like non-proliferation and Manifest Destiny.

In terms of her interaction and relationships with the team, I don’t think Weir and Teal’c ever have any scenes together. She and Sam don’t really interact in these episodes either. But we do get a good dynamic with her and Daniel. I think it is interesting because in some ways she is what Daniel used to be. He was the “voice of reason” and the civilian who wanted everyone to take a step back and see the bigger picture. But Daniel also knows very personally the kind of enemy they face, and so he tries to help Weir see the other side, to understand what it means to stand up against “pure evil.”

I really like the rapport he has with Weir (both actresses). I think it brings out the different facets of Daniel as he’s learned to look at the world from points of view he never would have entertained before joining SG-1. I really wish when TPTB went looking for a foil for Daniel to play off of in S9 and S10 they would have given him someone more like Weir instead of the vapid Vala antics.

The dynamic between Jack and Weir was also interesting. They have a moment in that first briefing that IMO set the parameters of their relationship. At first Jack is flippant and doesn’t give her a lot of respect. He’s understandably wary of her, especially as she seems to be at Kinsey’s elbow. But in the moment when they are both pushing on her and Jack asks “Who are you? And why are you here?” she asserts her independence. Her response shows not only that she can stand up to Kinsey, but that she won’t fold for Jack either. You can see that Jack respects that and it puts them on equal footing thereafter.

Kinsey
This is in effect Kinsey’s swan song. I know he comes back in Full Alert, but I could have happily lived without that. Here we see Kinsey coming so close to finally getting what he’s wanted for years, control of the Stargate program and the ousting of Hammond and SG-1, he’s almost salivating. He really believes that he’s gotten the President to give in, he can control Weir and he’s won. Then it all slowly unspools for him as he realizes that Weir isn’t a puppet and the President is no fool. Kinsey walking away in disgrace is just so satisfying; it’s really a shame Jack couldn’t have been there to see it. But then, he would have gloated.

Hammond
We also bid a reluctant farewell to General Hammond. I understand DSD left for health reasons, and it was a great opportunity to give RDA a much needed change in role, Hammond will still be greatly missed going forward. Bra’tac’s reaction when he learns that Hammond has been replaced is so somber. It was the perfect note to demonstrate the trust and respect he’s earned as the leader of the SGC among our allies. I do love that he has a chance to be the hero, and goes out doing what he’s always done, protecting SG-1 so they can save the world.

YAY TEAM!!!!
It is so great to see that SG-1 team dynamic we so love. It seems like it’s been a long time since they’ve just been together on a good old fashioned go through the stargate and save the world adventure. Feels just like old times. And we get Hammond and Bra’tac and Reynolds and Walter all coming along for the ride. I just wish Janet could have been there.

I could say so much more. There are so many great moments, especially between Jack and each member of the team as he makes the choice to sacrifice himself and then as he says his farewells. But I’ll just say that I love the team and it’s so clear that each member of the team loves one another and that’s one of the biggest reasons why SG-1 is special for me.

Sam and Jack
I think Lost City would be a great episode(s) even without the ship, but let’s face it, the ship really takes it over the top. It starts with ship, ends with ship, and just oozes with ship. All that’s missing is the BHK. (I agree with those who have said that a kiss would have been out of place here, but there’s a part of me that still wanted it!)

I like the continuity of having part one and part two start with the crossword puzzle. So I’ll start there too.

I wish I knew the whole story behind that bet because clearly it had been going on for a while. There had to have been at least one puzzle before this one (double or nothin’), and what exactly do you think was at stake? Whatever it was, Daniel had been quite clearly warned to stay out of it. It seemed like Jacl was trying to prove something to her, and his obsession with finishing the crossword puzzle before he completely lost his mind can be seen as his way of holding on to her for as long as possible.

Sam and Jack’s interactions around that puzzle are so completely beyond professional. She actually scolds him for being late. (When was the last time you scolded your boss for being late?) And later when she reads his “Uma Thurman” answer doesn’t Jack just look like he got his hand caught in the cookie jar. (Or maybe he was thinking, I would have written Sam Carter if I didn’t think you’d kick my a$$.) Later when she takes command and gives him a direct order that’s a cute moment, but let’s face it she’s been ordering him around for a while now and he doesn’t seem to mind it that much.

Over and over again we get hints about how he’s placed her up on a pedestal. He jokes with Daniel that helping him with the crossword puzzle will be the one thing she doesn’t know. Joking with Weir about how Carter can explain all about time being relative, again playing up what he sees as her genius. Then there’s the national treasure discussion at his house. He sees her as so much more valuable than himself and would still rather die than loose her. And while he cuts her off in the cargo ship, saying that he knows what she wanted to tell him, does he really know, does her really understand that saving the world isn’t worth it to her if she loses him?

When she comes to his house he asks if Hammond sent her to check up on him, like he can’t believe she would come to him on her own. Then of course they have so much to say to each other that they know they can’t say that they both stumble for anything to say. This leaves her feeling unsure about whether he really wants her there and she prepares to leave, but he can’t let her walk away entirely so he tells her to stay.

And the ending just breaks my angst loving heart. When it seems like he’s about to surrender to the inevitable it’s her “please” that always seems to drag him back from the brink.

So how did they ever get her to leave him? She worked night and day and rewrote the laws of physics to bring him home from Edora. She lost her cool several times and at one point totally broke down when he was stranded with Maybourne. I just can’t see her going back to the SGC and clocking out for a date with after this. I don’t think we know how long he was trapped in stasis, but it doesn’t seem like it was a short time. He can’t have ever been far from her mind. So I have a lot of problems with the direction things go in New Order, but I suppose I’ll save those complaints for another discussion.

I'll just end by saying that I totally agree that at this point there is no question that Sam and Jack are completely in love despite the many barriers that both literally and figuratively remain between them.

[hedwig]

So how did they ever get her to leave him? She worked night and day and rewrote the laws of physics to bring him home from Edora. She lost her cool several times and at one point totally broke down when he was stranded with Maybourne. I just can’t see her going back to the SGC and clocking out for a date with after this. I don’t think we know how long he was trapped in stasis, but it doesn’t seem like it was a short time. He can’t have ever been far from her mind. So I have a lot of problems with the direction things go in New Order, but I suppose I’ll save those complaints for another discussion.

I think somewhere in New Order, somebody says that Jack has been in stasis for two months, which makes some sort of sense, since otherwise the Antarctic Base couldn't be ready for Weir to head on down there and take over being in charge of the place as we see it not long later in SGA: Rising. And I heartily agree with your comment about Sam going back to life as usual and continuing to date Pete while Jack is frozen down there and she's so uncertain about what will happen to him and how she can figure out a way to rescue him. It just doesn't make sense. She just wouldn't do that.

[Gumarx]

Great post hlndncr - I'd green you but I've apparently done that too much recently heh!

My one comment is that I've sassed many a boss in the past, that's usually why they keep me around - to keep them in line Of course the command structure here is a little different than the jobs I've held...

I found it really cute how Sam was stumbling at Jack's door; she is usually so confident and together, and we see her vulnerable. Sure, she's had moments before where she's paused, or felt unsure about herself, but never so completely lost. Only Jack can do that to her

[Nynaeve506]

I think somewhere in New Order, somebody says that Jack has been in stasis for two months, which makes some sort of sense, since otherwise the Antarctic Base couldn't be ready for Weir to head on down there and take over being in charge of the place as we see it not long later in SGA: Rising. And I heartily agree with your comment about Sam going back to life as usual and continuing to date Pete while Jack is frozen down there and she's so uncertain about what will happen to him and how she can figure out a way to rescue him. It just doesn't make sense. She just wouldn't do that.

The difference between Edora and New Order is that Sam had some sort of power over the situation (creating a particle generator). The issue with Jack had nothing to do with technology - once they unfroze him, he would still be dying. They were wholly at the mercy of the Asgaard and past that...well there wasn't anything else anyone could do. So I don't think she was being thoughtless, I think she recognized her very real limitations (she's not a medical doctor, she's an astrophysicist).

Additionally, she was, as far as we know, in love with Pete. It isn't like she's going out with some random guy she's never met. What else is she supposed to do? Sit in her lab and cry her eyes out? Mope around and do nothing? Pete would have been her greatest emotional support during a time like this - regardless of whether he's liked or not, this is a fact. I've mentioned this before, but she's military - what is often perceived as not caring or as "moving on" is actually rooted in a deep awareness that things rarely stay the same and that if you stopped your life every time someone was removed from it, you'd never get anything done (because you lose people on a regular basis in the military).

Sam has a life. She has limitations. I think she shows great awareness in choosing to continue to pursue her romance and leaving the saving of O'Neill's mind to the medical professionals and/or the Asgaard whenever they choose to show up.

[hlndncr]

The difference between Edora and New Order is that Sam had some sort of power over the situation (creating a particle generator). The issue with Jack had nothing to do with technology - once they unfroze him, he would still be dying. They were wholly at the mercy of the Asgaard and past that...well there wasn't anything else anyone could do. So I don't think she was being thoughtless, I think she recognized her very real limitations (she's not a medical doctor, she's an astrophysicist).

Additionally, she was, as far as we know, in love with Pete. It isn't like she's going out with some random guy she's never met. What else is she supposed to do? Sit in her lab and cry her eyes out? Mope around and do nothing? Pete would have been her greatest emotional support during a time like this - regardless of whether he's liked or not, this is a fact. I've mentioned this before, but she's military - what is often perceived as not caring or as "moving on" is actually rooted in a deep awareness that things rarely stay the same and that if you stopped your life every time someone was removed from it, you'd never get anything done (because you lose people on a regular basis in the military).

Sam has a life. She has limitations. I think she shows great awareness in choosing to continue to pursue her romance and leaving the saving of O'Neill's mind to the medical professionals and/or the Asgaard whenever they choose to show up.

I'm sorry I just can't agree with this. I don't believe she was in love with Pete. I think he was her check in the box of having a relationship and then she could put him on the back burner. And I don't understand how she could have sought comfort from Pete because despite him knowing about the program she can't talk to him about her current missions and there's no way she could or would want to explain how she felt about losing Jack. I think she shut Pete out for the most part, and he was persistantly trying to get back in.

And while I agree that with her military training and experience she has learned how to compartmentalize and move forward to get the job done, when she is done with the mission and, as here, there is nothing she can do we have seen her fall to pieces. And she most definitely did not just leave it for the Asgaard to show up whenever. I think she was being as active and engaged as she could in finding a way to bring him back to them healthy and whole.

[Rachel500]

I tend to think that all of SG1 had to be removed from the Antarctica site where Jack was under threat of force (think Fifth Man and the confrontation with Hammond) and won over by the simple truth that they did not have the resources to stay without support. On the plus side, they knew Jack was safe.

It's apparent at the beginning of New Order, that there has been a significant period of time that has passed (I remember 3 months but it could have been 2) and that the team have been working actively to try and find a solution (Sam mentions they've tried contacting the Asgard several times) but that there has been little gate travel and nothing at the Antarctica site because of the negotiations taking place between the various international members of the IOA.

It seems like they've been promised that they'll go back as soon as an agreement is reached. And once the latest at the beginning of New Order falls through - again it seems - Sam has evidently had enough and pulls out the big guns of her plan to reach the Asgard and save Jack (all but blackmailing Weir and effectively risking career to get what she wants). So I don't think Sam ever does stop working to find a way to get Jack fixed but is trying to play by the rules up until that disappointment at the beginning of New Order.

In that respect, I think a lot of her mental and emotional energy was focused on Jack during the months of his absence.

Frankly, I'll be honest and say finding out Sam was still with Pete in New Order was a big disconnect for me after Lost City. I'd come out of Lost City with 'yay Sam loves Jack; he loves her yay' and New Order was like 'huh?? she's still seeing Pete?? huh???'

Anyway, the way I reconcile it is this: Sam spends a lot of time at work; emotionally and mentally trying to find ways to help Jack, and otherwise doing her job as ordered. But when she does leave the mountain, Pete is physically on the spot being her boyfriend; putting up with her moods, offering her comfort. Sam herself is stuck between wanting to end it because she feels guilty knowing that deep down she loves Jack and is that fair to Pete, but equally not wanting to end it because she wants to believe she's committed to Pete, believes she loves Pete too, and still questions whether Jack would want her even if he was around. So, for me Sam is confused - and remains confused right up until Threads.

[hlndncr]

I tend to think that all of SG1 had to be removed from the Antarctica site where Jack was under threat of force (think Fifth Man and the confrontation with Hammond) and won over by the simple truth that they did not have the resources to stay without support. On the plus side, they knew Jack was safe.

It's apparent at the beginning of New Order, that there has been a significant period of time that has passed (I remember 3 months but it could have been 2) and that the team have been working actively to try and find a solution (Sam mentions they've tried contacting the Asgard several times) but that there has been little gate travel and nothing at the Antarctica site because of the negotiations taking place between the various international members of the IOA.

It seems like they've been promised that they'll go back as soon as an agreement is reached. And once the latest at the beginning of New Order falls through - again it seems - Sam has evidently had enough and pulls out the big guns of her plan to reach the Asgard and save Jack (all but blackmailing Weir and effectively risking career to get what she wants). So I don't think Sam ever does stop working to find a way to get Jack fixed but is trying to play by the rules up until that disappointment at the beginning of New Order.

In that respect, I think a lot of her mental and emotional energy was focused on Jack during the months of his absence.

Frankly, I'll be honest and say finding out Sam was still with Pete in New Order was a big disconnect for me after Lost City. I'd come out of Lost City with 'yay Sam loves Jack; he loves her yay' and New Order was like 'huh?? she's still seeing Pete?? huh???'

Anyway, the way I reconcile it is this: Sam spends a lot of time at work; emotionally and mentally trying to find ways to help Jack, and otherwise doing her job as ordered. But when she does leave the mountain, Pete is physically on the spot being her boyfriend; putting up with her moods, offering her comfort. Sam herself is stuck between wanting to end it because she feels guilty knowing that deep down she loves Jack and is that fair to Pete, but equally not wanting to end it because she wants to believe she's committed to Pete, believes she loves Pete too, and still questions whether Jack would want her even if he was around. So, for me Sam is confused - and remains confused right up until Threads.

I can definitely see Pete being there. He seems clingy to me. And I think much of Sam's relationship with Pete is driven by guilt. Isn't that why she tells him about the program? She feels guilty that all her "boyfriends" seem to die and Pete's the one who lived?

I can also see Sam still being confused about how Jack really feels about her. She was very unsure of herself at his house and got the impression he wanted her to leave. Later in the cargo ship he cuts her off. I can imagine her saying to herself that he doesn't want to hear it because he doesn't feel the same way. So when she does get Jack back I can see her putting her feelings for him back in the bottle and trying to make something work out with Pete (even if it kills her).

[hedwig]

I'm sorry I just can't agree with this. I don't believe she was in love with Pete. I think he was her check in the box of having a relationship and then she could put him on the back burner. And I don't understand how she could have sought comfort from Pete because despite him knowing about the program she can't talk to him about her current missions and there's no way she could or would want to explain how she felt about losing Jack. I think she shut Pete out for the most part, and he was persistantly trying to get back in.

Ditto this. She'd only been dating Pete for a few months at most, and I can't see her "falling in love" with him that fast. She liked him, she was probably fond of him, but nothing more than that. And people do date people for long periods of time without being "in love" with them; it happens all the time in real life.

Frankly, I'll be honest and say finding out Sam was still with Pete in New Order was a big disconnect for me after Lost City. I'd come out of Lost City with 'yay Sam loves Jack; he loves her yay' and New Order was like 'huh?? she's still seeing Pete?? huh???'

Ditto this, too.

I can definitely see Pete being there. He seems clingy to me. And I think much of Sam's relationship with Pete is driven by guilt. Isn't that why she tells him about the program? She feels guilty that all her "boyfriends" seem to die and Pete's the one who lived?

I can also see Sam still being confused about how Jack really feels about her. She was very unsure of herself at his house and got the impression he wanted her to leave. Later in the cargo ship he cuts her off. I can imagine her saying to herself that he doesn't want to hear it because he doesn't feel the same way. So when she does get Jack back I can see her putting her feelings for him back in the bottle and trying to make something work out with Pete (even if it kills her).

I can't see Sam feeling guilty enough to continue the relationship with Pete. After all, he survived. That should have been enough to convince her she wasn't a "black widow" as so many like to phrase it. She's smart enough to realize that if he survived, then somebody she actually deserved was going to survive too. I dislike looking at it this way, but I think Pete was nothing more than a distraction for her at this point. Yes, she knew him well enough to call Fifth on it when he snapped at her while disguised as Pete, but that doesn't mean she was in love with Pete.

[hlndncr]

I can't see Sam feeling guilty enough to continue the relationship with Pete. After all, he survived. That should have been enough to convince her she wasn't a "black widow" as so many like to phrase it. She's smart enough to realize that if he survived, then somebody she actually deserved was going to survive too. I dislike looking at it this way, but I think Pete was nothing more than a distraction for her at this point. Yes, she knew him well enough to call Fifth on it when he snapped at her while disguised as Pete, but that doesn't mean she was in love with Pete.

It seems to me that Sam should be smart enough not to date Pete at all. But she does make some rather questionable choices when it comes to her personal life. Really smart people are often really bad at interpersonal relationships.

[Nynaeve506]

First, the show tries to convince us that she's in love with him. It's possible to be in love with two people at the same time and at the very least, even if we don't believe that they're in love, Sam believed she was in love with Pete. Thus, while I agree that finding out Sam was still with Pete seemed like a huge disconnect, Pete is still a *long term* boyfriend.

Additionally, as I pointed out before, there was nothing she could do. Why would she be totally broken up well after the fact? Just because there's nothing she can do now doesn't mean she's not just being patient. What else is she supposed to do?? She *can't* do anything. Sam, at this point, has worked hard to create a life outside the SGC and again, whether we like Pete or not, he was part of her support network. Look, a significant other doesn't need to have detailed knowledge of the situation in order to offer emotional support (hello, military spouses do this all the time). And I think he did in a very genuine way.

I agree whole-heartedly that Sam made a poor choice in Pete. However, it's not as out of character as we think. It's very common for women to have a habit of choosing men all wrong for them. Pete is preceded (officially) by Jonas Hanson, a nut job if I ever saw one. Compared to Jonas, Pete is a sweetheart (not saying I think he is, just saying if you compare the two). She doesn't have very good character judgment when it comes to men. It doesn't make her less intelligent and it doesn't speak to her character. Some women are just utterly blind when it comes to making choices about their spouses. Sam on some level is aware when she talks about being attracted to the lunatic fringe.

Also, something else to consider, with Sam actively trying to separate herself from Jack (and not doing such a great job), she may have compartmentalized her emotions enough that she's in utter denial about how badly she wants to save him.

[hlndncr]

First, the show tries to convince us that she's in love with him. It's possible to be in love with two people at the same time and at the very least, even if we don't believe that they're in love, Sam believed she was in love with Pete. Thus, while I agree that finding out Sam was still with Pete seemed like a huge disconnect, Pete is still a *long term* boyfriend.

<snip>

Also, something else to consider, with Sam actively trying to separate herself from Jack (and not doing such a great job), she may have compartmentalized her emotions enough that she's in utter denial about how badly she wants to save him.

Well TPTB also tried to convince me that Pete's really a great guy and I should like him, but they failed - MISERABLY! So I refuse to be convinced that Sam is in love with him (and they didn't do a good job of that anyway IMHO). But I will agree with you about one thing. Sam is in a whole lot of denial when it comes to her feelings!

[hedwig]

While not trying to persuade anyone to change their minds (mind you), it is my opinion that in this situation, even though Sam has a boyfriend (and a short term one at that, since they've only been together for maybe two months, and we as the audience aren't supposed to know it's going to last longer), that she would not be much less obsessive about finding a way to get Jack back than she was in "100 Days", "The Fifth Man", and "Paradise Lost". That kind of determination doesn't just vanish because she now has a boyfriend to comfort her somewhat.

And while it is canon the way she was portrayed in the episodes, I find that the way she was written is pretty shameful. I think the whole story arc did a big disservice to that character. I honestly don't see the Sam Carter I came to "know" over the 7 years of the show as being that weak willed (my opinion) as to toss out the strength she's developed over those 7 years for a guy who was so disrespectful to who she was.

[Nynaeve506]

While not trying to persuade anyone to change their minds (mind you), it is my opinion that in this situation, even though Sam has a boyfriend (and a short term one at that, since they've only been together for maybe two months, and we as the audience aren't supposed to know it's going to last longer), that she would not be much less obsessive about finding a way to get Jack back than she was in "100 Days", "The Fifth Man", and "Paradise Lost". That kind of determination doesn't just vanish because she now has a boyfriend to comfort her somewhat.

I don't think she did lose any determination (I think this is where I'm not exactly seeing what you're getting at). There was nothing she could do - absolutely nothing. She doesn't have the medical prowess to save Jack when they thaw him out (and I'm certain they had a team working on exactly that). As they told us, there were international issues at work, so she couldn't go down there (not that it would have done any good anyway). In the case of Edora, she COULD do something. That's the primary difference. I don't think it has anything to do with Pete. I'm just arguing that she, at the very least, believes herself in love with Pete.

And while it is canon the way she was portrayed in the episodes, I find that the way she was written is pretty shameful. I think the whole story arc did a big disservice to that character. I honestly don't see the Sam Carter I came to "know" over the 7 years of the show as being that weak willed (my opinion) as to toss out the strength she's developed over those 7 years for a guy who was so disrespectful to who she was.

Again, I think we're missing each other because I don't see making a bad decision about a man being a sign of weak-will. I think it's a sign of just plain old human nature. I understand the desire to have our strong female leads show no signs of imperfection, but I've known TONS of intelligent women that I respect pick utter morons for their significant others. I stand there dumbfounded at moments trying to figure out what they were thinking because in most other aspects of their life, they are incredibly well reasoned. All of us make stupid mistakes, and many of us make them repeatedly before we figure it out. Pete was a relationship after a long period of singleness after a man that was incredibly controlling and a lunatic. To be honest, he was an improvement (although not at all ideal and still completely wrong for her). I'd be surprised if most of us that are older can't recount at least one story of a smart woman repeatedly dating the wrong kind of guy.

[hedwig]

I don't think she did lose any determination (I think this is where I'm not exactly seeing what you're getting at). There was nothing she could do - absolutely nothing. She doesn't have the medical prowess to save Jack when they thaw him out (and I'm certain they had a team working on exactly that). As they told us, there were international issues at work, so she couldn't go down there (not that it would have done any good anyway). In the case of Edora, she COULD do something. That's the primary difference. I don't think it has anything to do with Pete. I'm just arguing that she, at the very least, believes herself in love with Pete.

We just have differing perspectives on this, and for all intents and purposes we are both right. I agree there was nothing she could do. But I also don't see her as spending that much time with Pete during the time Jack was in stasis (I'm pretty sure she would have felt very guilty doing so when Jack was missing like this). She's a work-a-holic, and having Pete in her life is unlikely to have changed that. I don't see her changing her routine that much because of him. Plus, he doesn't live in Colorado Springs yet (as far as we know). There was really nothing she could do in "5th Man", "Abyss", or "Paradise Lost", but it didn't stop her from being extremely concerned and wanting to try at least something, which (other than Pete in her life) isn't much different than Jack being in stasis (in my opinion).

I don't think she sees herself to be "in love" with Pete at this particular time of the storyline. Yes, people can fall in love in the two months or so they've been dating, but I don't see Sam as a person that falls in love that easily. Yes, I think she likes him and cares a lot about him at this point, but I firmly believe she does not love him at this point (if, indeed, she ever really did).

Again, I think we're missing each other because I don't see making a bad decision about a man being a sign of weak-will. I think it's a sign of just plain old human nature. I understand the desire to have our strong female leads show no signs of imperfection, but I've known TONS of intelligent women that I respect pick utter morons for their significant others. I stand there dumbfounded at moments trying to figure out what they were thinking because in most other aspects of their life, they are incredibly well reasoned. All of us make stupid mistakes, and many of us make them repeatedly before we figure it out. Pete was a relationship after a long period of singleness after a man that was incredibly controlling and a lunatic. To be honest, he was an improvement (although not at all ideal and still completely wrong for her). I'd be surprised if most of us that are older can't recount at least one story of a smart woman repeatedly dating the wrong kind of guy.

Maybe there's a better term than "weak-willed", but that's the one that comes to my mind. I wasn't suggesting she has to be perfect or show no signs of imperfection. But it seems to me that it was wholly out of character for her to casually walk into the infirmary, hand him a framed picture of the two of them dancing, kiss him, and then tell him about the Stargate program, as though it was all just another day, and there was no big deal about any of it. I would like to have seen some confusion on her part as to why he was even at the stake-out and maybe some well-deserved annoyance or anger over what he did, even though she wound up forgiving him. The Sam I saw throughout the series would likely have forgiven him, but would not have kept dating him. There should have been serious repercussions to what he did, and yet there was absolutely nothing.

I understand all your reasons for why Sam kept seeing Pete. I just don't agree with them. Just as you don't appear to agree with whatever my reasoning is. I don't have any problem with that. I also agree that many very smart people can be very foolish when it comes to relationships and make really bad choices (my sister and my niece are two of them). And in this case, I think Pete is almost as bad a choice as Jonas Hansen was. They just happen to have quite different personalities.

(*oh, and I'm one of those normally smart women who has made a few less than smart choices of men to become involved with, too.*)

[Gumarx]

You know, when everything all finally played out, I actually felt a little sorry for Pete. Yes, he obviously has some sort of issues as seen in his need to KNOW what Sam is up to and not to just trust her. However, I think we see him genuinely trying to do the right thing a few times too - he helps Sam clear Teal'c's name and doesn't make much of an issue of it. I still don't think he was right for Sam, even if Jack were not in the picture, but I think in the end I felt like he was at least half-way decent.