Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[josiane]

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Synopsis

The one where a film-maker comes to the SGC to make a documentary that will never be made public, or at least not for many many years, and the various SG personnel spend most of the time avoiding him. Except for SG-13, who are offworld and have an encounter with a Goa'uld MALP which is never going to end well...

Analysis

Ah, the old documentary episode It comes eventually to all shows I do always like these episodes though - I think it's an interesting technique and does usually show us something new about the characters. Heroes is no exception. As Hammond points out, the camera changes things, and in the context of an episode like this, it puts an additional layer between us and the characters and encourages us to stand back and examine them from a different angle. We are looking at them through someone else's point of view, and from this perspective Heroes is rather like The Other Guys and Citizen Joe, all of which have a bit of an effect of making you look at how you view the characters - Bregman, like Felger and Joe, all view SG1 as heroes (in different ways ), as do we, but somehow it's different seeing it spelled out on screen, as it were.

The other interesting thing about this kind of episode, is that we see how the characters perceive themselves, and what they say about themselves, in a very conscious way. Normally you don't get that kind of insight, and you are left to infer what they think and feel about themselves. This is particularly relevant here for Sam, but I'll get to that in the shippy part...

Otherwise this part is really set-up and context for the emotional meat of the second part. Much like in Entity, the emotional second half is given more weight by dint of the contrast with a light-hearted first half. So here we have the comedy of things like Walter explaining his job, and Jack being especially flippant, and Siler nice and prominent in the infirmary when Janet is being interviewed. Plus we get SG-13's banter, which is great fun. Their scenes also serve to create contrast too - we see the mundanity of a lot of the SGC's work, a team who know each other well turning up on yet another planet and coming across as rather jaded about what they are doing and likely to find. So of course when it all kicks off in part two, we've been lulled into a false sense of security and are being reminded of how the danger can spring up out of seemingly nothing - the job may become routine, but is still risky.

Also on the set-up theme, I like the way Bregman is so convinced he needs to bring a story out of them, when of course the story does end up telling itself.

SG1's reactions to Bregman's presence are interesting, I think. Jack becomes even more of a smart-ass than usual and spends the whole time avoiding him, Sam goes all bashful and modest but secretly seems to quite like it, Daniel gets playful and awkward, and Teal'c clams up but co-operates to the letter of Hammond's request. Really shows how each of them react to being the centre of attention. I love that Janet is the most natural and confidently open of all of them - she really shines in her couple of scenes, which of course again is providing contrast to what is about to come.

The other set-up thing that we get in this episode of course does not relate to the second part, but to the longer-term political background, with Kinsey in full-on electioneering mode, trying to make himself look important (even though he surely can't be expecting to win votes at the SGC!) and impressive. It is lovely to see Bregman taking him down a peg with the accusation that he looked rehearsed, and then also to see Jack getting to make him look foolish in front of the camera - also a perfect example of the camera changing what it sees, as Jack clearly decides to let rip purely because it is being filmed and he knows that Kinsey cares more than anyone else about how he comes across. Actually that's an interesting contrast with SG1 too, as the way they all react to the camera doesn't show them to be overly concerned with how they appear to the potential viewers - they're not so much themselves (as they all react a bit oddly or exaggeratedly), but they don't really seem to care.

A couple of other random bits I love:
- Jack expressing his "deep and unyielding love" for Hammond
- Sam teasing Teal'c ("because usually it's so hard to shut you up")

Overall, this is a great establishing episode for what's to come, and finishes on a nice menacing note - as Jack says, they know full well that it's not likely to go well but don't feel they have a choice, and seeing them marching off with purpose right at the end is a great 'to be continued' moment.

Sam/Jack

Two scenes to talk about here

The first is the scene they have together, and it's a really sweet, comfortable one. I love how Jack asks Sam to explain what's going on even though anyone else could have (and probably has) told him and he has had memos (although of course, Jack and memos ) - just another example of how, as far as Jack is concerned, Sam has the answer to everything. I love how Sam knew he'd mentioned Mary Steenburgen, and I love the look they exchange when Sam asks whether he got the memo. It's just a really comfortable, affectionate scene

The second of course is Sam's interview. It's very, very revealing. At first, it's lovely to see her speak about Jack with such warmth, respect and admiration. We don't usually get to hear that. But then when Bregman hones right in on the possible underlying implication, Sam reacts just like every time she is put on the spot about her feelings or relationship with Jack (Birthright being the most recent example) - she goes awkward and embarrassed and over-justifies why there's nothing between them and that it's all so professional. It's completely "nothing to see here, move on". Methinks she doth protest too much And really, I defy anyone to watch that little segment and not think there's feelings there - she gives herself away so many times during it. The embarrassed dip of the head, the half-hidden smile, the 'professional', the 'Daniel and Teal'c are also like family', the 'even if there was potential for something more, and I'm not saying there is', the rules... yeah, not fooling anyone there, Sam

[Nefer]

Nynaeve506, I think I agree with all you said in regard to Sam. As you said the point is that the relationship with Pete wasn't violent. And if Jonas was violent I see Sam immediately breaking it off as a compliment to her character. She DIDN'T just take it. Isn't that a good thing? That's what you're supposed to do.
In regards to Pete maybe she didn't even know that Pete did the background check on her (was that ever made clear?). And again she realized this is not the kind of relationship she wants to have and broke it off.
That Pete got some clearance for the Stargate was just plain wrong and completely OOC for the whole show. Why, for Pete's sake (pun intended)?

The other thing that I find deeply offensive as a woman is the way TPTB were laughing and joking about Pete's behavior. As a person who has suffered through a domestic violence situation I do not find controling, manipulative, paranoid and demeaning male behavior a laughing matter.

That is terrible and I hope that you managed to get through this and lead a better life (sorry, my English isn't perfect and I can't think of a better way to express this right now, I hope you get what I'm trying to say).
In regard to this I totally understand where you're coming from, but I think that S/P is still a whole other discussion. It is possible (although I don't think so) that Pete may have had the potential to become abusive to Sam sometime in the future. But she didn't marry him (for multiple reasons I think, one of them being feeling uneasy about him wanting to 'lead'). Good riddance, well done Sam. I still admire her. No integrity lost there IMO.

Concerning the joking around of the writers/producers: if you're talking about a script from a writer's perspective you tend to see people, scenes and decisions as plot devices. I think in retrospect they saw that the whole Pete thing just wasn't written well and that Pete's actions seemed erratic and over the top (for a show that usually has great characterization IMO). His scenes therefor do have some comic potential I think.

Thing that I found offensive as a woman was the double standard we saw in the calliber of the relationships. Sam had some pretty miserable boyfriends and IMO Pete was the worst of the lot, while all the guys had these amazing, sexy women who they clearly did not deserve.

Maybe there just a lot more amazing, sexy women out there than there are amazing, sexy men? On a slightly OT note: Isn't it great that there ARE so many wonderful, independent and strong women in a sci-fi show written and produced almost exclusively by men? I mean, they basically run the universe, don't they?

[Nefer]

I hope double posting isn't a capital offence here, but I just saw that Heroes is up already, and of course I have to comment on that

first of all: it's Donny! (Daphne's Donny from Frasier of course).

I'm sort of on the fence about the scene where Sam is being interviewed about Jack. On the one hand it makes my little shipper heart all giddy hearing her talk about him like that. On the other I find it really hard to watch and I squirm in my seat, because she says things in front of the camera that can't be interpreted any other way, and then is flustered and tried to take it back. She's an officer, shouldn't she be aware of what she's saying in an interview?

[Petra]

*quickly runs in*

Hi guys! I'm terribly behind - lately I haven't had time to even lurk, let alone post - and I need to catch up on everything since Fallout (!), but yesterday's evening I saw this post and decided I want to reply. My apologies if what I have to say was already said. Also, welcome to the newcomer!

What exactly is 'offensive' here? What is damaging Sam's integrity?

I'm one of the those fans who complain that Chimera and Pete in general (just wait till we get to Affinity, I'll post a rant the likes of which you've never seen about how Sam was dumbed down to make Pete look good there) ruined Sam's character. Tbh, after Chimera first aired I went through about a 1-year-long period when I didn't like Sam at all, because I absolutely couldn't stomach the abysmal way she was written. Fortunately I got over it, realising that the way just 1 aspect of her character was written for about 1 season shouldn't ruin all the other utterly cool things about her and years of enjoyment, and I'm proud to say Sam is still my 2nd fave character ever. However the reasons I had for disliking her in 2003/2004 are still there.

First let me explain that I don't believe neither Jonas nor Pete were abusive when Sam was involved with them. IMO she would have broken up with them the moment they started to behave suspiciously. I also wholeheartedly disagree with hlndncr's view of Sam's character. Try as I might, I just don't see her as trying to please men in her life. I've always seen Sam as a very independent, strong, self-assured woman who wouldn't take any crap from anyone and who did what she did because she liked it. She chose military because she wanted to be military, not to please Jacob (as evidenced by her choosing military over science post-SG-1) She chose to be a scientist, because that's what she wanted. She chose the Stargate program because she wanted to, knowing that her dad wouldn't be happy to see her throw her career away for some backwater project. Maybe she was a bit inexperienced relationships-wise, but that doesn't make her conditioned to cater to men's needs.

So what I found offensive in Chimera?

That she dated some guy (other than Jack ? That she had sex? That she dated some guy who turned out not to be a perfect-in -every-way-prince-charming?

Nope, it wasn't the fact that she started dating someone else. I'm in the camp that was pleased to see it. I don't necessarily think S/P was a catalyst for S/J, but IMO Sam deserved to enter some long-term, stable relationship to remind herself what it's all about, what she really needs from such relationship and what kind of a guy can make her happy, to gain some experience and finally, to realise only Jack can make her truly happy. So I applouded TPTB's choice to give her a boyfriend.

I didn't mind her having sex. Why would I? Double standards according to which men can have sex outside of an established relationship, but women can't (if they don't want to tarnish their reputation) make me sick. Heck, I'm known for saying that IMO neither Sam nor Jack were celibate all those years. *shrug* So no, it definitely wasn't sex.

It wasn't the fact that Pete wasn't perfect either. Prince Charming? I think it's safe to say that we all realise perfect guys don't exist in RL and I certainly didn't expect one to appear on StargateG-1.

Strangely, it wasn't background check either, because while I do think it's a proof of Pete's stalkerish tendencies and bad writing in pure form, I agree with Evenstar that Sam tends to be pretty forgiving of such things. I don't like it, but it's a part of her character I accepted.

For me it all comes down to the moring after scene, the phone call and the stake-out.

Morning after. Sam's all happy, loving, relaxed, open and here's Pete, asking her about her work. Again. and she patiently explains (again) that she can't tell him no matter how much she'd love to because it's classified. After hearing which Pete gets pissed, yells (!) at her that they have no future together if she keeps secrets from him (btw, at this point how long had they been dating? A month? I'd run for cover if after a month guy started talking about future together) and storms out. To which...Sam doesn't respond, beyong pleading with him not to leave her (!). That's what I find demeaning and offensive to her character. Instead of throwing him out with determined "I don't want to see you ever again!" she meekly takes his crap, cries, pleads with him and then calls him first! And that makes her look needy, weak and desperate, not at all like Sam I know and love.

And then the stake-out. By showing up in the middle of it, Pete not only risked his life, but also put Sam's team members in jeopardy. They needed back-up, Sam got out of the van to provide it and was delayed by Pete. What if in the meantime Osiris started firing upon Daniel or Jack or Teal'c? One of the best qualities of Sam is that she's fiercely protective of her team and so for his actions there Pete should have been dressed down and kicked to the curb by Sam, NOT pleaded to live so she can tell him all about her top secret work and that they'd be together, her teammates forgotten. I absolutely HATE that scene and how it portrays Sam - as needy and selfish, 2 things she's not.

That's why I find the way Sam was written in those scenes offensive to women in general and insulting to her character. I like the concept of Pete, but its execution is one of the worst, most pathetic things I've ever seen on tv.

Thing that I found offensive as a woman was the double standard we saw in the calliber of the relationships. Sam had some pretty miserable boyfriends and IMO Pete was the worst of the lot, while all the guys had these amazing, sexy women who they clearly did not deserve.

I disagree. The worst Stargate relationship on SG-1 for me was Daniel/Vala. I agree with Evenstar that I can't think of anything more immature and more disgraceful to both characters. Then, as already mentioned, there's Daniel/Shyla, Daniel/Ky'ra (Linea) and Teal'c/Krista *shudders*. Also, Cam/Amy - my 2nd place in the most immature category. And Cam/Reya, which almost completely distroys Cam's character showing him as a guy who can't keep it in his pants and consequently goes AWOL and offers to influence official inter-planetary treaty in favour of the lady he fancies. Sam's love interests really weren't that bad in comparison.

Also, why did the guys "clearly" not deserve great partners?

I'm afraid I can't comment on Heroes yet. I'll try to catch up at some point..

*runs out*

[hlndncr]

Wow, I feel like I'm taking a bit of a beating around here. I can live with people not agreeing with me on the reasons to dislike Pete seeing as we mostly do agree that he is disliked.

I think the point I'm making is the disparity in relationships between the guys and Sam. The women are all gorgeous and for the most part pretty amazing. Now I love the guys, I do, but lets face it in real life a geeky, socially awkward somewhat self-absorbed archeologist is not going to date a ultraconfident, brilliant PhD who could double as a runway model (and even Daniel stated that he didn't deserve her). And no one would consider giving our male heroes a less than stunning girlfriend for the purpose of "character growth". But on the commentary the writer and director said they set out to give Sam someone who was more ordinary because it would make her character more interesting. That kind of double standard is offensive to me.

[hedwig]

Wow, I feel like I'm taking a bit of a beating around here. I can live with people not agreeing with me on the reasons to dislike Pete seeing as we mostly do agree that he is disliked.

I think the point I'm making is the disparity in relationships between the guys and Sam. The women are all gorgeous and for the most part pretty amazing. Now I love the guys, I do, but lets face it in real life a geeky, socially awkward somewhat self-absorbed archeologist is not going to date a ultraconfident, brilliant PhD who could double as a runway model (and even Daniel stated that he didn't deserve her). And no one would consider giving our male heroes a less than stunning girlfriend for the purpose of "character growth". But on the commentary the writer and director said they set out to give Sam someone who was more ordinary because it would make her character more interesting. That kind of double standard is offensive to me.

Much as I dislike Chimera, I may have to go listen to the commentary, since I never have.

And I find it interesting that the writer would say such things, since I think Damian Kindler wrote Chimera, and he is the one who created Sanctuary and has written so many great episodes for that show. (Well, the story is by Robert Cooper, and the teleplay is by Damian Kindler ... however that works out for who wrote what parts of it.)

[Petra]

Wow, I feel like I'm taking a bit of a beating around here. I can live with people not agreeing with me on the reasons to dislike Pete seeing as we mostly do agree that he is disliked.

Oww, there's no beating, I swear! Just friendly disagreements.

I think the point I'm making is the disparity in relationships between the guys and Sam. The women are all gorgeous and for the most part pretty amazing. Now I love the guys, I do, but lets face it in real life a geeky, socially awkward somewhat self-absorbed archeologist is not going to date a ultraconfident, brilliant PhD who could double as a runway model (and even Daniel stated that he didn't deserve her). And no one would consider giving our male heroes a less than stunning girlfriend for the purpose of "character growth". But on the commentary the writer and director said they set out to give Sam someone who was more ordinary because it would make her character more interesting. That kind of double standard is offensive to me.

Hmm, so are you thinking only of physical attributes of SG-1's love interests? I guess in terms of looks I can see your point. I definitely found most of the women the guys dated to be very attractive and beautiful, while Sam's guys were either ordinary (Pete, Narim, Jonas, McKay) or just cute (Orlin, Barret, Martouf). I think Joe Faxon was the only one who I'd call handsome. Otoh:

1. Sam did end up with Jack. 'nuff said.

2. Not all female interests were so beautiful: Sara (Jack's ex), Laira, Shyla, Drey'ouc were all pretty but rather ordinary IMO

3. Looks are incredibly subjective anyway, and just because we don't like somebody it doesn't make them unattractive in general.

4. TPTB are all males, so it's easier for them to pick a pretty girl than a handsome guy.

5. Pete was supposed to be played by BB, quite a hunk (if not my type). From what I've heard DdL stepped in at the last moment as a favour to his brother.

6. Finally, in RL couples where the girl is pretty but guy plain at most are much more common than the opposite with ordinary-looking woman and very handsome guy. I think women in general are more attracted to personality of the guy than to his looks, so seeing the same thing on Stargate doesn't bother me. *shrug*

[hlndncr]

It seems like the more I try and explain myself the more I am misunderstood. So I'm just going to stop now and go watch something shippy.

I may have some comments on Heroes later; if I dare.

[Nefer]

It seems like the more I try and explain myself the more I am misunderstood. So I'm just going to stop now and go watch something shippy.

I may have some comments on Heroes later; if I dare.

Oh dear, I hope you will comment. What else are we here for but serious discussion? I'm looking forward to your comments on heroes.

To which...Sam doesn't respond, beyong pleading with him not to leave her (!). That's what I find demeaning and offensive to her character. Instead of throwing him out with determined "I don't want to see you ever again!" she meekly takes his crap, cries, pleads with him and then calls him first! And that makes her look needy, weak and desperate, not at all like Sam I know and love.

She CRIES ??? I must have repressed that. I guess I should watch the episode once again *runs to the DVD shelf*. But all in all: agreed. It just doesn't really seem such a big thing to me. I guess I wrote all that off under 'bad writing' and 'tiny but essential things that generally bug me about Stargate'. And I love Sam, always have, always will!

On with the Heroes discussion!

[hedwig]

It seems like the more I try and explain myself the more I am misunderstood. So I'm just going to stop now and go watch something shippy.

I may have some comments on Heroes later; if I dare.

Of course you dare!!! You better.

[EvenstarSRV]

I've always seen those guys as one-sided "love interests". They were interested, but Sam wasn't. She was flattered by the attention. They were never boyfriends; they never even got close to being that. So, for me, there really were no "love interests". And I wouldn't call Orlin mature, either. Sure, he was supposedly many thousands of years old, but that didn't make him a mature guy.

Pete was the only one she ever had a full-fledged relationship with, and is the only one I actually count in terms of her having a relationship. Thus, for me, he was childish and rather one-dimensional.

Plus, with Narim, she told him she couldn't have a relationship with anybody until she could figure out who's feelings she was actually feeling (Jolinar's or her own), and as far as I'm concerned she was telling him there was never going to be anything beyond friendship between her and him. And she was a little peeved at him for using her voice for his house voice.

Had he survived, I think Joe would have made a good choice for an actual boyfriend.

I totally agree that none of those guys, aside from AU Joe in 2010, were Sam's boyfriends. I do still consider them love interests, one-sided yes, though in some ways reciprocated by Sam such as kissing Narim in Enigma.

And I personally considered Orlin to be the most mature of the guys, a bit immature from a human perspective sure, but he came across as having an 'old soul' in a way. And he, like Narim and Martouf, seemed quite accepting of Sam when she said she didn't have any deeper feelings for him beyond friendship.

And in terms of attractiveness, I personally thought Orlin was the most attractive of all the guys, including Jack. *ducks*

For me it all comes down to the moring after scene, the phone call and the stake-out.

Morning after. Sam's all happy, loving, relaxed, open and here's Pete, asking her about her work. Again. and she patiently explains (again) that she can't tell him no matter how much she'd love to because it's classified. After hearing which Pete gets pissed, yells (!) at her that they have no future together if she keeps secrets from him (btw, at this point how long had they been dating? A month? I'd run for cover if after a month guy started talking about future together) and storms out. To which...Sam doesn't respond, beyong pleading with him not to leave her (!). That's what I find demeaning and offensive to her character. Instead of throwing him out with determined "I don't want to see you ever again!" she meekly takes his crap, cries, pleads with him and then calls him first! And that makes her look needy, weak and desperate, not at all like Sam I know and love.

And then the stake-out. By showing up in the middle of it, Pete not only risked his life, but also put Sam's team members in jeopardy. They needed back-up, Sam got out of the van to provide it and was delayed by Pete. What if in the meantime Osiris started firing upon Daniel or Jack or Teal'c? One of the best qualities of Sam is that she's fiercely protective of her team and so for his actions there Pete should have been dressed down and kicked to the curb by Sam, NOT pleaded to live so she can tell him all about her top secret work and that they'd be together, her teammates forgotten. I absolutely HATE that scene and how it portrays Sam - as needy and selfish, 2 things she's not.

That's why I find the way Sam was written in those scenes offensive to women in general and insulting to her character. I like the concept of Pete, but its execution is one of the worst, most pathetic things I've ever seen on tv.

I think most everyone here agrees that the second half of Chimera with the stakeout and aftermath was very poor writing, the difference it seems is in how forgiving one is of its effect on Sam and the other characters.

It seems like the more I try and explain myself the more I am misunderstood. So I'm just going to stop now and go watch something shippy.

I may have some comments on Heroes later; if I dare.

Please do dare, I always enjoy reading your perspective.

And I just realized I completely missed the Death Knell discussion. Lovely review Sarai, DK is one of my fav eps of the series, esp the Sam and Jacob interaction and the solider Sam toughness we get to see along with the worry and concern shown by her teammates.

The arm around the shoulder at the end with Jack is one of those moments between the characters that to me is mostly driven by friendship and camraderie, but has the underlying of deeper feelings. I do think that she would have done the same if it were Daniel, Teal'c, or even Reynolds, but they, like Jack, would have had to make the offer first, I don't think Sam would have asked them.

[Nynaeve506]

I've always seen those guys as one-sided "love interests". They were interested, but Sam wasn't. She was flattered by the attention. They were never boyfriends; they never even got close to being that. So, for me, there really were no "love interests". And I wouldn't call Orlin mature, either. Sure, he was supposedly many thousands of years old, but that didn't make him a mature guy.

Pete was the only one she ever had a full-fledged relationship with, and is the only one I actually count in terms of her having a relationship. Thus, for me, he was childish and rather one-dimensional.

Plus, with Narim, she told him she couldn't have a relationship with anybody until she could figure out who's feelings she was actually feeling (Jolinar's or her own), and as far as I'm concerned she was telling him there was never going to be anything beyond friendship between her and him. And she was a little peeved at him for using her voice for his house voice.

Had he survived, I think Joe would have made a good choice for an actual boyfriend.

I will say - yet ANOTHER guy that turns out to be manipulative ("but it was ONLY 30%..." SERIOUSLY?! You're wife is trying to get pregnant and you don't CLUE IN?).

Joe just proves my point about Sam's really bad taste in men. Until Jack of course.

'Cause, you know, she did actually marry him. Kinda.

BUT:

I couldn't stand Narim. I'm not sure that, even had he stayed on Earth instead of running away with the rest of the Tollans, she would have kept liking him. He was a short sighted person who lacked a certain creativity that Sam seems to enjoy.

And Orlin--talk about your stalker.

And the Martouf thing. I think that's kind of tacky--making a play for someone just because she last housed your last mate--and oh--by the way--she's hot. **shudders**

Jonas was just plain icky--I'll give you that. And Pete was supposed to be your basic Earth guy--but he was too flat. There wasn't anything interesting about him to keep me motivated to like him. I'm weird, I know, because I kind of thought he was cute--but then I go for that gallumping sort. I was the only one in the neighborhood who liked Peter DeLuise better than Johnny Depp on 21 Jump Street, too.

So, I guess that Sam's stuck with the uber-hot, interesting, deep, dark, playful, sweet, unassuming, wonderful Jack.

Which is exactly what she needs. Right?

No one here has probably seen Sailor Moon? Sailor Jupiter says "but he looks like my ex-boyfriend!"

Noooo, not creepy at all... I'm with you Akamai!

Wow, I feel like I'm taking a bit of a beating around here. I can live with people not agreeing with me on the reasons to dislike Pete seeing as we mostly do agree that he is disliked.

I think the point I'm making is the disparity in relationships between the guys and Sam. The women are all gorgeous and for the most part pretty amazing. Now I love the guys, I do, but lets face it in real life a geeky, socially awkward somewhat self-absorbed archeologist is not going to date a ultraconfident, brilliant PhD who could double as a runway model (and even Daniel stated that he didn't deserve her). And no one would consider giving our male heroes a less than stunning girlfriend for the purpose of "character growth". But on the commentary the writer and director said they set out to give Sam someone who was more ordinary because it would make her character more interesting. That kind of double standard is offensive to me.

It seems like the more I try and explain myself the more I am misunderstood. So I'm just going to stop now and go watch something shippy.

I may have some comments on Heroes later; if I dare.

HighlandDancer (because I can expand it here!) - so sorry if you felt like that. Having had friends in situations like yours, I totally get why you would feel the way you do. The things with which we have personal experience causes us the most amount of emotion. It was *never* supposed to be a beat down, just a disagreement.

Please don't stop sharing :: hugs ::

[hedwig]

Just a thought in regard to the background check. One would think something like that would have got the attention of the Pentagon/AF, just because it was about somebody in the ultra top secret SGC. Plus, one would think that after Sam's kidnapping in Desperate Measures, the Pentagon/AF would have been even more curious to know if anybody was checking up on anybody in their top secret organization.

I will say - yet ANOTHER guy that turns out to be manipulative ("but it was ONLY 30%..." SERIOUSLY?! You're wife is trying to get pregnant and you don't CLUE IN?).

Joe just proves my point about Sam's really bad taste in men. Until Jack of course.

My only reason for commenting about Joe is that the guy he was in the 2001 episode could have been a good guy for all we know. But since he got left behind, we'll never know. He could have been a bit different from the Joe in 2010. So, in that light, I could see he and Sam going out together a few times. But deciding to just stay friends and moving on from each other.

[Lucycat]

Quick question... I've seen several posts here that say BB was offered the role of Pete but he turned it down and so they gave it to David DeLuise. So, am I to infer that BB is Ben Browder?? Where did we learn this information? Was he offered the role because he was on Farscape at the time and they were both SciFi shows? I am glad he didn't do it... but I guess he didn't like the character of Pete either!

[hedwig]

Quick question... I've seen several posts here that say BB was offered the role of Pete but he turned it down and so they gave it to David DeLuise. So, am I to infer that BB is Ben Browder?? Where did we learn this information? Was he offered the role because he was on Farscape at the time and they were both SciFi shows? I am glad he didn't do it... but I guess he didn't like the character of Pete either!

I just read on GW's home page under Chimera's episode something about this. There are some interviews with Amanda and a couple of others there. Yes, it was BB (Ben Browder) they were thinking of. They had several actors in mind, but Pete deLuise convinced them to give the part to his brother, David (he was doing David a favor, apparently, according to the info under "Chimera").

Here's the quote:

Among the actors originally considered for Pete Shanahan was Farscape star Ben Browder. "We considered him for casting. I love Ben. I think he'd have been great. I would have loved to use him, and I think the crossover would have been a lot of fun. But he turned us down."
(Executive producer Robert C. Cooper, in an interview with the Richard Dean Anderson Web Site)

I'm not sure I would have liked Ben Browder in the role of Pete, either.