Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Akamaimom]

It's funny you should say that because, generally, so do I. I mean I've given myself Avenger and Inauguration this time. How much ship is there in those? One of them only features them entirely in flashback and the other they're only on the same planet together for about 2 scenes, let alone in the same flipping room! But, oh just you wait, I'll find some ship with my extra strength super dense thick shippy hippy specs on.
But generally, I prefer to leave the super ship heavy episodes to those I know will do an awesome job of them, but I also - where no preference is expressed - try and accomodate everyone with at least one episode with at least one well known ship moment in it. Sometimes that's quite hard to do fairly though.

There is? Huh!

Exactly. Worth it for the last decent chance we get to see Janet being awesome. Oops, gettign ahead of myself a bit. Best wait for the review to actually go up later!

I see Avenger as a shippy episode. But I won't "go" there--I'll wait for the review.

And Inauguration--that one is, too. They mention the "issue" in and around the flashbacks, after all.

[hlndncr]

It's funny you should say that because, generally, so do I. I mean I've given myself Avenger and Inauguration this time. How much ship is there in those? One of them only features them entirely in flashback and the other they're only on the same planet together for about 2 scenes, let alone in the same flipping room! But, oh just you wait, I'll find some ship with my extra strength super dense thick shippy hippy specs on.

But there's touching in Avenger.

[Lucycat]

Banner by Graceful Spirit

SUMMARY
SG-1 investigates a crashed alien ship. Onboard there are cryogenic pods which contain people in stasis. While the team splits up to get a head count, a flash of energy engulfs them and renders everyone unconscious. Teal'c is the first to awaken and finds the rest of SG1 unresponsive. Moments later, Daniel wakes up screaming.

Back at the SGC, O'Neill and Carter are still unconscious. Daniel is panicky and claims to not know anyone, nor does he know the face in the mirror. The fear quickly changes to anger and arrogance. This attitude leads Janet to restrain him, and check to see if he's a Gou'ld.

After confirming he is not Gou'ld, Janet does discover that Daniel has multiple brainwave patterns that may suggest multiple personalities.

The first personality identifies himself as Martise, the Sovereign of Talthus, who is very high-and-mighty and self-absorbed. He is aggressive with Janet and refuses to explain the situation, only that he needs to go back to the ship to lead his people and that they must obey HIM.

Meanwhile, Jack and Sam awaken in the infirmary with no other personalities. It seems that whoever did this to Daniel didn't have time to utilize the others.

The second personality to manifest in Daniel is Tryan, an engineer of the ship. He is much more helpful and explains that their world, Talthus, was dying. Theirs is one of three vessels built to sustain the lives of a selected number of their civilization for a long journey to a distant planet. The procedure uploads the individual consciousness into memory, which should only be allowed to download into the original body. Since he is not in his original body, he realizes he, and the other personalities within, must be dead.

Daniel awakens briefly, long enough to allow Janet to determine he is still there. She explains that his body has somehow put his consciousness in a coma out of self-preservation.

O'neill stays and watches over Daniel from the observation deck while Sam and Teal'c go back to the planet. They discover Pharrin, a crewmember who claims to have been revived when the ship crashed. He is erratic and desperate and tells them that he has downloaded many personalities into his own body in an effort to "save" them. He then put 12 of the most important personalities in Daniel. Not just the Sovereign, but also his own son.

The son, Keenan, is the third personality to manifest in Daniel, and he tells Janet about the "lottery" held on his planet and that his mother was not chosen, but he was, because his father works on the ship.

Back on the planet, Pharrin begs Sam and Teal'c to take on some of the remaining personalities. Sam tries to convince Pharrin that she can save all the people in the ship by using an alternate power source that can stabilize the pods long enough to revive everyone without downloading them into other people. But she will not do it unless Daniel is restored. Pharrin struggles within himself and his other personalities, but he finally agrees to help.

Back at the SGC, Pharrin explains what must be done to Tryan, who is prepared to do his duty. However, he is quickly overtaken by Martise, who commands Pharrin not to cooperate with them. Pharrin kneels before him, claiming that he has sworn to obey the sovereign, but then O'Neill intervenes, telling Pharrin that his sovereign is dead -- but the others in the ship are not, and he must do what is right for the rest of his people.

Pharrin agrees and is able to have a last moment with his son. In the revival process, Pharrin is able to separate Daniel from the other personalities, due to the comatose state of his consciousness, and absorbs all the others, allowing himself to be with his son. Daniel awakens as himself to the relief of his friends.

COMMENTS
How many episodes have you seen that actually have the name of the episode spoken by a character in the episode? I think it's pretty rare, but what do I know?

SAM: So Daniel's a "Lifeboat"?

I had only watched this episode once before this re-watch thread, mainly because I was on a kick where I'd only watch episodes with a lot of Jack... I know, not fair to the other characters, but that's my bias! Anyway, I actually liked Lifeboat. Thought it was a good sci-fi story and Michael Shanks did an admirable job with the personalities. Arrogant Martise, cute and innocent Keenan and nice and loyal Tryan. It's true that there were some over-the-topness and it was occasionally unintentionally comical, but over-all, I think he did okay.

On the heels of "Revisions" this is another story where we meet an advanced civilization that depends on technology for survival, only to have it fail. Perhaps, not as much as in Revisions, but in Lifeboat, the computer is used to download consciousness of deceased crew members into one individual person.

There is also a possible moral dilemma... should the consciousness of a person whose body is deceased, but mind is intact, be saved? The Asgard transfer their consciousness to new bodies all the time. Heck, just a few episodes ago they put Jack's consciousness into a new body in Fragile Balance. So why weren't the Asgard contacted? I supposed our team was too focused on getting Daniel back, and the others out. Daniel is probably the only person who would look at the ethical side of this, but, unfortunately, he's in a coma!

Anyway, the point may be moot, since all the people that were in Daniel where successfully transferred to Pharrin, and he in turn was put in stasis, so perhaps there is hope for the others.

I also liked the flashbacks of the crew of the doomed ship before it took off. It added emotional weight and we were able to see the other personalities clearer, IMO, when Michel Shanks played them, especially the son. Too bad they didn't show Martise that would have been interesting!!

This episode was also a big one for Teryl Rothery. Janet Fraiser went through a lot of emotional turmoil, trying to get information to save Daniel while dealing with the tantrums of the sovereign and heart-wrenching innocence of Keenan. She certainly deserves the highest kudos for her performance.

Another good performance was from the guest actor, James Parks, who played Pharrin. His struggle with the survival of his people versus this life of his son was moving.

Also, great visual effects of the crashed ship. The interior was cool, with the rows of cryogenic pods and flickering lights. It gave it an eerie feel which was a good thematic touch.

RICHARD DEAN ANDERSON
This episode is Jack-lite, but it was revealed in the audio commentary by Peter DeLuise, that this was the episode when Richard Dean Anderson's father died. So he was home and off the set for most of the week. However, it was nice to see O'neill in action during that last scene in the observation room, starting off with his classic "For Crying Out Loud!" and rushing in to convince Pharrin to ignore the selfish sovereign and save his people.

SAM & JACK
Not a lot, but I put on my rose-colored, shippy glasses!!

When they first walk into the ghost ship and Sam starts to explain to him about the cryogenic process his cuts her off and says, "We've got a ship load of frozen people". Perhaps not shippy, but she gives him a slight smile.

When he first wakes up in the infirmary, he says her name first "Carter and Daniel?” This is probably because she's his 2IC, but I like to think she is the first thing he thinks about when he wakes up!

They walk into the observation deck and stand side-by-side, arms touching for several seconds. When Jack agrees to stay and watch vigil over Daniel, Sam looks at him with, what I think, is great concern. It's almost like she wants to reach out and pat his arm in sympathy, but stops herself at the last minute.

In the final scene, Jack winks slightly at Sam when he says, "We'll leave that for SG-4, they love that kind of stuff". She smiles back at him.

QUOTE
TEALC: Daniel Jackson's preliminary electroencephalogram proved anomalous.
O'NEILL: I dare you to say that again.
Teal'c looks at him and then opens his mouth to say it again, but he is cut off by Hammond.

COMMENTARY
I really enjoy listening to audio commentaries. The one for Lifeboat was pretty good with director Peter DeLuise and Director of Photography, Peter Woeste. Thought it was unfortunate that Michael Shanks did the commentary for Revisions, but not Lifeboat. I'm sure he would have had some good comments.

Anyway, Peter DeLuise went on to say how much he not only loves working on the show, but he loves watching it as well. I think that's great to know, that he really enjoys the show on all levels.

He pointed out the running gag, which is the fact that Siler is always injured. Siler is in the background during the scene in the infirmary, with a broken nose, when O'neill wakes up.

The scene toward the end when Daniel is talking to himself as different personalities was inspired by the scenes with Gollum in the Lord of the Rings movies.

[Lucycat]

Whew, that's the longest post I ever posted!

[hlndncr]

Great job on the review Lucy!

While I won't call Lifeboat one of my favorite episodes, it's not bad IMO.

I do think that Teryl Rothery and Michael Shanks do a stand up job. It's episodes like this that make me really start to miss Janet already. They just never found another actor with the kind of gravitas that Teryl brought to the role of SGC CMO. She was absolutely irreplacable.

As for MS, it's not easy making three very different characters distinct and believable with nothing more to work with than your voice and posture. I was especially struck by his portrayl of the young boy. He matches the image and inflections of the child from the flashback scene perfectly.

One thing I like about this episode are the hints of a larger back story we get from the flashbacks and stray comments from the "passangers" Daniel is carrying. It would be a good story in and of itself about a world that was anticipating destruction for decades, a political system and leaders that clearly didn't have the best interests of the people in mind, and the sacrifice and dedication of regular families who made so many sacrifices to try and preserve at least some of their world.

My biggest complaint about the story is the resolution. As I've said before, I'm one for happy endings most of the time. But this was another one, like Fragile Balance, where the tie it all up in a pretty bow type ending did not work for me. So much of the tension and build up was based on the fact that the people inside Daniel could not be saved. Tryan explains that the result of carrying so many personalities could only be madness. The reason Pharrin uses Daniel in the first place is that he can't possibly carry any more (he's on the verge, if not already over the edge of insanity himself). Then what do they do? Put everyone into Pharrin. That final scene where Pharrin talks of sacrifice to Tryan, who is so honorable and willing to give himself for his people, and he has to overcome all his socialization to defy his sovereign, and then he has to say goodbye to his son (and it's almost like Martice lets the child out in a last ditch effort to save himself) it loses all its poignency and impact for me with the neat resolution. Instead of an incredible act of bravery and sacrifice we're left with, he's in stasis and the rest of the passangers will wake him up and take care of him so everything is just fine.

I also wish there would have been at least one reaction shot of Jack during the scene with Pharrin and "his son." I mean Jack had to be at least a little conflicted about watching a man sacrifice his son to save his people (and in fact insisting on it so that Jack's friend could be saved as well).

It also leaves me wondering how Daniel must have felt after all was done. The "deal" his friends made to save him would have to twinge his sensative conscience some.

As for the ship, nice catch on the wink. Never noticed that. And that moment of closeness (and touching) in the observation room. I know it's a small room, but come on, they are plastered right up against each other. And it's totally unconscious; I don't even think they realize that touching and being close to one another is just second nature for them.

[Cagranosalis]

Great review Lucycat.

How many episodes have you seen that actually have the name of the episode spoken by a character in the episode? I think it's pretty rare, but what do I know?

SAM: So Daniel's a "Lifeboat"?

Oh good point. You got me thinking now. Children of the Gods, Broca Divide, Cor-Ai, The Nox, The First Comandment... uh, ok they did it a lot in the early days, not so much later on. I guess that just goes to show how much cleverer they got with episode titles.

I actually liked Lifeboat. Thought it was a good sci-fi story and Michael Shanks did an admirable job with the personalities. Arrogant Martise, cute and innocent Keenan and nice and loyal Tryan. It's true that there were some over-the-topness and it was occasionally unintentionally comical, but over-all, I think he did okay.

I have mixed feelings about this episode and MS's performance in it. I do think it was hammed up a little too much at times, and I didn't really like the whole Gollum thing either; it worked for Gollum because that was two completely opposite sides of the same character - extreme good and extreme evil. Here it's different personalities, none good or bad, just different and trying to stay alive.


SAM & JACK
Not a lot, but I put on my rose-colored, shippy glasses!!

When they first walk into the ghost ship and Sam starts to explain to him about the cryogenic process his cuts her off and says, "We've got a ship load of frozen people". Perhaps not shippy, but she gives him a slight smile.

When he first wakes up in the infirmary, he says her name first "Carter and Daniel?” This is probably because she's his 2IC, but I like to think she is the first thing he thinks about when he wakes up!

They walk into the observation deck and stand side-by-side, arms touching for several seconds. When Jack agrees to stay and watch vigil over Daniel, Sam looks at him with, what I think, is great concern. It's almost like she wants to reach out and pat his arm in sympathy, but stops herself at the last minute.

In the final scene, Jack winks slightly at Sam when he says, "We'll leave that for SG-4, they love that kind of stuff". She smiles back at him.

[/QUOTE]

Well done finding that much ship in it! Yay, there was touching after all.

[Lucycat]

hlndncr, I agree with you about the easy resolution! But I think perhaps Pharrin thought he was going to die when he downloaded everyone into himself, so he said that line, "We will be together again soon" to his son. If it worked and they survived, the son would be alive in his mind, and if he died, then they'd be together in the afterlife. Maybe I'm reading too much into it??

I think Jack did look a little uncomfortable during the scene when Pharrin was saying goodbye to his son, perhaps not like the emotional outburst he had toward the guy in Window of Opportunity, but there was a little something, I think.

I also wondered... Carter was planning to use the naquada generator to power the ship and revive some of the others... why didn't she just do that... revive one or two and let them take on the other consciousnesses from Daniel?

About that subtle wink... I think the only way I caught it was because I was watching the episode on my laptop, so I was very close to the screen! I may not have seen it if I was watching it on my regular TV!

[Lucycat]

Cagranosalis... thanks! I agree with the Gollum comment, that was a bit much!!

[Rachel500]

Lifeboat

Generally

I really like the idea of Lifeboat more than the execution although I love the scene where Janet tells Martice where to go - love it.

It's in watching Lifeboat that I can see where the Dan/Jan shippers come from because she's so determined and so impassioned.

But there is so much that just isn't explored and yep, I'm not a fan of the Jack/Pharrin scene at the end where he just bursts in and tells him to get on with it.

Sam and Jack

Again, some nice looks and the wink (well caught!) but I also like that he asks for her first. In my reality (obviously the only one of consequence) it is because it's her he thinks of first.

[josiane]

Nice job on your first review, Lucycat!

I like Lifeboat, generally, and considering I don't generally like Daniel episodes all that much that says something! I agree with all of you who have said that the Gollum thing is a little OTT and that the resolution is rather too rapid, but I do like the idea and generally I think it's very well handled. Plus Janet rocks, and I do love Janet

On the heels of "Revisions" this is another story where we meet an advanced civilization that depends on technology for survival, only to have it fail. Perhaps, not as much as in Revisions, but in Lifeboat, the computer is used to download consciousness of deceased crew members into one individual person.

I really like this point - I hadn't made that connection, but that's a nice comparison to make

It's funny you should say that because, generally, so do I. I mean I've given myself Avenger and Inauguration this time. How much ship is there in those? One of them only features them entirely in flashback and the other they're only on the same planet together for about 2 scenes, let alone in the same flipping room! But, oh just you wait, I'll find some ship with my extra strength super dense thick shippy hippy specs on.
But generally, I prefer to leave the super ship heavy episodes to those I know will do an awesome job of them, but I also - where no preference is expressed - try and accomodate everyone with at least one episode with at least one well known ship moment in it. Sometimes that's quite hard to do fairly though.

I think you do really well to keep us on track and distribute fairly Three cheers for Cags!

[hlndncr]

I think you do really well to keep us on track and distribute fairly Three cheers for Cags!

Hip hip hooray!

[josiane]

Banner by Sarai

Synopsis

SG11 are having lots of fun surveying for naquadah on another planet that looks suspiciously like British Columbia, when one of their number goes missing, snatched by something that makes snarly noises and hides in the woods. They call in the cavalry (aka, Jack, Daniel and Teal'c, leaving Sam behind to play with gate diagnostics), who discover that unbeknownst to our intrepid potential miners, the planet is crawling with Unas and they aren't best pleased about the Tauri sniffing around. Jack gets scratched by one of them and gets himself confined to the infirmary, leaving Daniel and Teal'c to return to the planet with Daniel's old friend Chaka. Daniel and Chaka talk to one of the Unas and find out that the nice juicy naquadah deposit is on sacred ground, and that's what's got the Unas so grumpy. Colonel Edwards isn't too thrilled with Daniel's diplomacy, as the Pentagon really really wants the magic rocks, and he and his men refuse to play nice, playing at paintballing with the unas in the woods. Things get heated, and in the end Daniel persuades Colonel Edwards to go along with his plan (it was that or get pummelled to death), and many hours of translation later, gets the unas to agree to mine the deposit on the SGC's behalf. Suckers.

Analysis

Is it me, or is this episode really dull? I'm not a fan of the unas episodes in general, and I think this is my least favourite of them. Add to that the fact that Sam has one scene and Jack is sidelined about a quarter of the way through, and it's no wonder it doesn't really do much for me It's essentially filled up with Unas barking and grunting at each other and the humans while Daniel looks alternately puzzled and anguished.

But anyway, now I've got that off my chest, and hoping I haven't upset any massive unas fans, this episode does fit nicely into two of Stargate's main themes - the science versus military conflict, and whether we can be justified in bouncing round the galaxy exploiting other planets and riding roughshod over their civilisations in our attempt to bolster our defence of our own planet. It's really a rehash of Spirits (an episode in which Jack is similarly sidelined by a shoulder wound - I wonder if that was an intentional call-back?), except without the infiltration of the SGC and with a hardline military antagonist and a more desperate need for naquadah. It also is a bit of a flipside to Prodigy - there we had a bolshy scientist whose intractability put them in danger and facing off with Jack, here we have Colonel Edwards doing just the same thing and arguing with Daniel.

The main impression I am left with from this episode though is to be thoroughly grateful that most of the aliens SG1 ever encounter speak perfect English, even the ones that have their own language too. It might be completely implausible but after sitting through all the Daniel-to-Unas translation scenes I really appreciate all the time and tedium that bit of unrealisticness saved us!

There are some good things about this episode - the Jack-Daniel banter at the beginning is nice, and even though he has very little to do, Teal'c shows his strong protective instincts and trust in his team-mates with his concern about Daniel going off alone and unarmed with Chaka, and the way he kneels instantly with Daniel at the end, no hesitation at all. Hammond's support for Daniel's position in front of General Vidrine is similarly great to see. And I do always like getting a glimpse of the SGC's longer-term offworld expeditions - we know they go on, but rarely see them (unless of course a whole heap of trouble is about to descend on them). Plus Lorne's in it! How did I not notice that before? Shows how much I have generally blanked this episode from my mind that I completely forgot he was there

Otherwise though, meh.

Sam/Jack

Well, seeing as they only have one scene together, there's not really a whole lot to say. I love Sam's expression as she approaches Jack-in-full-on-cranky-Colonel-mode with due caution, and there's some more of that nice comfortable snark we've discussed before this season with the 'science project' banter, and another great expression from Sam in reaction to Daniel's comment about breaking in a new Colonel, but that's your lot.

[Lucycat]

Great review, josie! I'm not a fan or the Unas storylines, either!

So, with Enemy Mine we have another Michael Shanks episode, two in a row! Except that in LIFEBOAT we didn't see much of Daniel Jackson! So in this episode it's nice to see "classic" Daniel, like the good ol' days! He's in his "happy place", being an archeologist and diplomat. That was about all I liked. Oh, and, of course, the brief appearance of Jack and the one piddly scene with Sam. It was a great scene, though. Loved Jack griping to the nurse one minute, and then when Sam walks in, he sits up straight and acts all macho, like he's not in pain... HA!

And maybe it's weird, but I liked when the Unas came out from behind the tree and nailed Jack...BAM! What a great stunt that was!

Also, was that Sean Hayes playing the nerdy scientist? I think it was him, but he didn't have a credit, so not sure. Fun seeing him before he got famous on Will & Grace.

Didn't like... the stereotypical hard-nosed Colonel who doesn't want to do anything but shoot the indigenous life forms and ignore the fact that the USAF doesn't own the planet. The very fact that they "never got around" to contacting the expert on archeology, but instead moved artifacts that turned out to be on "sacred" ground, just goes to show after 7 years, these yahoos haven't learned anything! I guess I've grown used to the more "idealistic" Air Force that the show usually portrays, not these guys who are power-hungry and greedy for naquada. I also think Daniel, of all people, undersold these poor beasts. They are going to work the mine and give us all the naquada, all for a cigarette lighter? Does this not sound like taking unfair advantage?

[Akamaimom]

Great review, josie! I'm not a fan or the Unas storylines, either!

So, with Enemy Mine we have another Michael Shanks episode, two in a row! Except that in LIFEBOAT we didn't see much of Daniel Jackson! So in this episode it's nice to see "classic" Daniel, like the good ol' days! He's in his "happy place", being an archeologist and diplomat. That was about all I liked. Oh, and, of course, the brief appearance of Jack and the one piddly scene with Sam. It was a great scene, though. Loved Jack griping to the nurse one minute, and then when Sam walks in, he sits up straight and acts all macho, like he's not in pain... HA!

And maybe it's weird, but I liked when the Unas came out from behind the tree and nailed Jack...BAM! What a great stunt that was!

Also, was that Sean Hayes playing the nerdy scientist? I think it was him, but he didn't have a credit, so not sure. Fun seeing him before he got famous on Will & Grace.

Didn't like... the stereotypical hard-nosed Colonel who doesn't want to do anything but shoot the indigenous life forms and ignore the fact that the USAF doesn't own the planet. The very fact that they "never got around" to contacting the expert on archeology, but instead moved artifacts that turned out to be on "sacred" ground, just goes to show after 7 years, these yahoos haven't learned anything! I guess I've grown used to the more "idealistic" Air Force that the show usually portrays, not these guys who are power-hungry and greedy for naquada. I also think Daniel, of all people, undersold these poor beasts. They are going to work the mine and give us all the naquada, all for a cigarette lighter? Does this not sound like taking unfair advantage?

But the Unas made the deal. They were the ones that dictated the contract--and I think that the cigarette lighter was secondary to the promise that the naquadah (or was it trinium?)was going to be used to fight the Goa'uld. I think that was the main point of their deal. The lighter was secondary.

I don't mind this episode, for all that it is nearly Sam/Jack-less. I'm not a huge Unas fan, but I have to say that those guys inside the costumes deserve some major kudos for making the creatures seem sentient. I'm always impressed by that.

[Rachel500]

Enemy Mine

Generally

I admit that actually Enemy Mine has become one of my favourite episodes - not exactly top 10 but one that I look forward to rewatching, and not just because it is the first time we meet Lorne.

I like the return to the classic theme in Stargate of civilian vs military and the subtle poke at the history of colonisation and respect for indigenous populations. While Vidrine is portrayed mostly as 'naquadah at all costs', I think Edwards and SG11's view is much more personal - they've just lost one of their own who was killed in a very brutal way. And I like that the SG teams who don't have a Daniel still think mostly in military terms (it's much more realistic) and have a knee-jerk reaction of thinking the Unas aren't sentient or as important as human concerns because the Unas are not human. And I love that in the end the Unas force the others into taking them seriously through overwhelming numbers. While the agreement does seem to the advantage of the SGC, I think the Unas in showing how willing they were to fight the Goa'uld, to work with the SGC to do that, end up showing up Edwards and his crew for underestimating them. I guess this episode appeals to the social scientist in me.

I like the Edwards-Daniel conflict because this would not have worked with Jack-Daniel at this point. Jack's moved on from Edwards' position. And I like that both Jack and Teal'c get to show how much they support Daniel (Jack by clearly having spoken to Edwards off-screen before the return mission to tell him to pay attention to Daniel and it would be worth it, and Teal'c who complies immediately with Daniel's kneeling instruction).

Sam and Jack

While this episode doesn't have very much Sam, and very little Jack to boot, I like to think that once Jack gets sidelined and sent back to the SGC, he no doubt spends his recuperation time, sitting beside Sam as she does her science project and dragging her away for jello when she's tired.