Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[hlndncr]

[Akamaimom]

[IMG]http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af243/hlndncr/PDVD_240-1-1.jpg[/URL]

[IMG]http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af243/hlndncr/PDVD_241-1.jpg[/URL]

See what I mean? That's a great shot! And Raknor. Yummy.

[hedwig]

See what I mean? That's a great shot! And Raknor. Yummy.

I noticed that (again) last time I watched this episode. I'm so glad he's one that survived throughout the series. At least I think I recall seeing him in a Season 9 episode.

[josiane]

Great review, Akamaimom! Don't have anything much to add to the discussion so far, but I wanted to say I really like the parallels you drew between Teal'c's situation in dealing with the loss of his symbiote and Daniel's situation. Really nice insight

[Petra]

Great review, Akamaimom! Don't have anything much to add to the discussion so far, but I wanted to say I really like the parallels you drew between Teal'c's situation in dealing with the loss of his symbiote and Daniel's situation. Really nice insight

Seconded. Good job.

Just a quick note. If I misremembered something (yep, going from memory again), my apologies.

Generally:

IMO "Orpheus" is one of the best episodes this season, despite also being the first where Jack/RDA's very noticeable absence wasn't handled well. I absolutely LOVE Teal'c's storyline, and I'm very happy that such huge, life-changing event like losing his symbiote was properly addressed in the show. In fact it's quite possibly my second favourite Jaffa episode (nothing beats The Warrior, sorry).

Did anyone else notice correlation between Jaffa episodes and appearances of Jack's leadership skills and great command decisions? In season 5 he was the only one who suspected K'tano, here he makes tough choice to wait even though Teal'c is tortured and SG teams want to go in at once, guns blazing. In other words he shows his tactical talent and good judgement. And in both episodes Sam is at her soldier best.

As for Daniel's part, here's where the episode doesn't quite work for me. I mean I like that the issue of his ascension was touched upon. I think it was needed and handled rather well. However, IMO it was the perfect time to address what happened on Abydos. To have Daniel deal with the fact that basically his arrogance killled the people who were his family and destroyed the one planet he called home. And there's nothing here, zip, nada. Error in his judgement that cost thousands of people their lives is never again mentioned (the same happens in seasons 9&10, when Daniel and Vala's responsibility for death of their 'hosts' and bringing the Ori to our galaxy is swept under the carpet). I also don't like the last scene, which for me ruins an enjoyable otherwise episode. I'll never, ever believe that up untill his 'descension' Daniel had never felt anywhere at home. What happened to Abydos? What happened to him being part of SG-1 for 5 years?

Sam/Jack

I don't remember anything shippy, but then Jack & Sam are sidelined in this one.

[Seaboe Muffinchucker]

I'm clearly in the minority. I not only like Orpheus, I think it's a great Jack episode. For once in a good long time, it shows him doing what he does well: being a Colonel. He directs the operation, comes up with the big idea and carries through the mission. He shows yet again what a good marksman he is and he doesn't let his feelings for Teal'c get in the way of what has to be done.

Seaboe

[penjab]

I'm clearly in the minority. I not only like Orpheus, I think it's a great Jack episode. For once in a good long time, it shows him doing what he does well: being a Colonel. He directs the operation, comes up with the big idea and carries through the mission. He shows yet again what a good marksman he is and he doesn't let his feelings for Teal'c get in the way of what has to be done.

Seaboe

Those are my feelings as well. You said it better than I could. Thanks.

[Cagranosalis]

Great review Aka!

Nothing much more to add; Petra pretty much summed it up for me.

This is one episode I definitely miss Jack at points. There are times when I really notice that they struggled to find ways to do a scene without him. Thankfully it's not a normal thing for this season and they did get better at making the best of RDA's time as the season went on.
I'm not a huge fan of this episode though. NO specific reason I just never really liked it much,
Again I agree, sort of, with Petra about the melding of a very important development arc for Teal'c and one for Daniel too. I think there's two separate things that were big enough to deserve their own episodes, not be bunged into one.

[hlndncr]

Off topic, but impossible to resist.

A three in a row shot from another episode that I can get behind.

[Akamaimom]

Off topic, but impossible to resist.

A three in a row shot from another episode that I can get behind.

[IMG]http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af243/hlndncr/PDVD_056-2-1.jpg[/URL]

So, Highland, are you "Gluted" to your screen?

I'm right there with you, by the way, happily taking up the rear.

[hlndncr]

Banner by Jumble

Summary
SG1 go to investigate a planet covered by a deadly toxic atmosphere with a mysterious dome that appears to contain a habitable climate. When they enter the dome and meet the townspeople they are at first welcomed and introduced to a device called The Link, which directly connects their minds with the dome’s computer systems.

SG1 stays to learn more about the technology, but strange things start to happen. A councilwoman disappears and the rest of the townspeople disavow any knowledge of her. The MALP appears to be missing, making it impossible for SG1 to contact the SGC. Sam is convinced the dome is failing, but the local computer technician, Pallan, claims everything is normal. After first agreeing to leave with SG1 in order to provide a better life for his son Nevin, the town gardener claims he never had any intention of leaving. Then Daniel watches Pallan’s wife, Evalla, walk out of the dome and into the poisoned atmosphere. Later, Pallan has no memory of ever being married.

When the team realizes that The Link is rewriting the townspeople’s memories, Sam tries to convince Pallan to help them reprogram the computer and convince the villagers they need to leave with SG1 before the dome fails. Pallan doesn’t believe Sam and has been convinced by The Link that removing it will kill him. When Daniel finds the original documents creating the community within the dome listing over 100,000 inhabitants, where now there are just a little over 1000, Pallan allows Sam to remove The Link, freeing him from the computer’s control.

Meanwhile, Jack and Teal'c discover numerous bodies outside the dome, and realize that the people are being sent to their deaths by the computer in order to preserve the community. They return to the village and are surrounded by the villagers who have been told by The Link to hook them into the network. A stand-off ensues, but Pallan is able to hack in and reprogram the computer to erase the villagers’ memories of SG1 before the situation escalates into violence. The dome is then evacuated and Pallan is left to try and mourn someone he cannot remember; the only person of his village who knows he has lost someone important to him.

Favorite Scene
None really stand out for me, but Nevin making a “trade” for the hazmat suit was kind of cute.

Favorite Line
Thank God for lawyers.
(Hey, what can I say? I don’t hear that very often, and I needed the ego boost. )

Generally
I’m pretty lukewarm on this episode. I don’t think it’s bad (I could certainly name worse, even from this season, but I shall refrain for now), but I just don’t find it particularly compelling. It is an interesting idea. A community trapped in a slowly constricting bubble only they don’t know it; a seemingly benign technology that is killing them off one by one. It is somewhat ironic that the foundational principle of their community was the eschewing of technology that had poisoned and destroyed their world. Yet they remained almost totally dependent on a sophisticated technology that in the end nearly destroyed them all in it’s unrelenting drive to preserve the community. But I think it falls down in the execution. I mean when it turns out the greatest peril the team is facing is that they might get bluetoothed, I find it hard to remain on the edge of my seat.

I also just find the characters and the team a little off. This was supposed to be sort of a good old fashioned one off team adventure (they go through the gate; they get into trouble; they get out of trouble; they go home). But I just didn’t get the feeling of connection I usually get from the team, and I’m not sure how to explain it exactly. And Jack certainly seemed out of character to me. For example, he was impatient and abrupt with Nevin, and Jack has always had a way with precocious kids.

Sam and Jack
Consistent with my determination to find shippiness in even the unshippiest of episodes I offer the following stretches of the imagination for your consideration:

When Jack introduces the team to Nevin he calls her Sam.

As they are walking into the village, Sam smiles slightly and looks fondly amused with Jack over his “trade.”

When Sam reports about the dropping power, Jack is a little impatient with her technobabble (rolling his eyes at Teal’c) but restrains himself from cutting her off.

When Jack and Teal’c realize that Kendrik has been compromised he calls Sam to warn her and tells her to be careful. (He doesn’t similarly call Daniel.)

What does all this mean? I think they still like each other.

[Rachel500]

Revisions

Generally

Have to admit that I didn't like the episode on first watching so many years ago now that it makes me feel old to think of it. However, in rewatching recently, I am struck that actually it is quite a good team episode. There are various moments throughout the episode where they all just confer with each other, discuss what's going on, and there's a really nice teamy feel about those as though after Daniel's return, Jonas's departure, and the previous situation with Teal'c's mojo, this is them really getting back to being the old SG1.

Sam and Jack

I think hilndncr did a great job of picking up on what little shippiness there is. For me, it's just more of the same; they're in a good place, both supporting each other, both enjoying their friendship beyond their professionalism - and that's helping to break down the walls they've placed on their deeper feelings for each other so occasionally there's a glimpse of something in a look or a caution to be careful.

[Cagranosalis]

It is an interesting idea. A community trapped in a slowly constricting bubble only they don’t know it; a seemingly benign technology that is killing them off one by one. It is somewhat ironic that the foundational principle of their community was the eschewing of technology that had poisoned and destroyed their world. Yet they remained almost totally dependent on a sophisticated technology that in the end nearly destroyed them all in it’s unrelenting drive to preserve the community.

I love the concept of that. I also love the whole mystery element. There’s these people who are completely benign, with a technology that’s completely benign but yet is destroying that it was created to preserve.

But I think it falls down in the execution. I mean when it turns out the greatest peril the team is facing is that they might get bluetoothed, I find it hard to remain on the edge of my seat.

Actually, if you take it to its natural conclusion, there’s great peril for SG-1. If they did get bluetoothed then, potentially, they could end up all taking a long walk outside the dome sans HazMat suits before the SGC cotton on to what’s happened. This was always the implication I drew from that scene, although I’m not sure if I am attributing too much intelligence to the Link. The whole scene with Jack and Teal’c being cornered by the townsfolk make little sense unless you assume the Link has some sentience and, for some reason, doesn’t want SG-1 to take away the people and, hence, its purpose for existence. I don’t think that was ever the intention because, had it been, there would have been greater conflict/action in it. Perhaps that might not have been a bad thing but I’m actually quite grateful they didn’t do that since that’s such an obvious sci-fi cliché, what we got instead was much more subtle.
Anyway, that's the one point where things don't really quite add up and I can't quite work out what I'm supposed to be watching.

One of the things SG-1 does quite well is to show us scenarios where they are the medium by which the story about others is told. This episode is a great example of that. When you consider this dome shrunk so much that all but 1000 odd of the original 100,000 people were just erased from existence. Just like that. And just the sheer coldness of it – sacrificing them then erasing them so those left behind cannot even remember, let alone mourn. It’s frightening, actually.
This whole concept is really just summed up in two scenes; the one where Daniel reveals just how big the dome’s population originally was, and the end scene where Pallan asks Sam to tell him about the wife he lost but cannot remember. This is a man who has to rely on the someone who barely knew his wife to tell him about her. And, although they don’t touch on this, I know people can mourn just as hard for those they never knew – children do it all the time when one parent dies when they are in infancy or before. Just because you have no memory of a person does not make them less real.
While I think they tried to bring out that idea in the episode, I don’t think it quite worked as well as it could have, mostly because there really wasn’t time to tell it properly.

However, as a whole, thinking back to when I first saw this episode, there was a real sense of mystery and confusion because things were happening that we saw -and we saw more than SG-1 knew - and it was one of those rare occasions when we're one step ahead of the game, so to speak.It's quite nicely built up in that respect but, of course, on subsequent viewings, you lose that and it does kind of spoil you for subsequent viewings.

And Jack certainly seemed out of character to me. For example, he was impatient and abrupt with Nevin, and Jack has always had a way with precocious kids.

I always put Jack’s antagonism to Nevin down to a kind of friendly-suffering-kids-but-I-love-them-really sort of front he’s putting on and, off camera he’s probably ruffled the boy’s hair or something. True he’s not affectionate in the same way he is to Cassie, or empathetic in the way he is with the Retou child, or his frustration at Merrin’s treatment. But those are all children who have nobody to look out for them so it’s a different situation. Nevin is a happy kid living a happy life with his father so doens’t need Jack to be that kind of person around him. That said, it occurs to me that he must have had a mother at some point, who isn’t mentioned at all so I’m going to assume she’s one of those who took a walk through the barrier which is a bit sad.

When Jack and Teal’c realize that Kendrik has been compromised he calls Sam to warn her and tells her to be careful. (He doesn’t similarly call Daniel.)

Oh good point. Although I could argue that Sam is specifically going to see someone while Daniel is working alone. Yeah, sorry; so little ship and I have to poo on your strawberries.

However, in rewatching recently, I am struck that actually it is quite a good team episode. There are various moments throughout the episode where they all just confer with each other, discuss what's going on, and there's a really nice teamy feel about those as though after Daniel's return, Jonas's departure, and the previous situation with Teal'c's mojo, this is them really getting back to being the old SG1.

Yes, that’s one thing I do like about it. After the initial jarring absence of Jack in the control room at the start (because, in the past, it’s always been him that’s hovered near Sam waiting to see what she’s got) it’s really fairly teamy with them all fulfilling their respective roles perfectly. There’s a great example of this with the exchange in the middle of the town square after the first council woman disappears:

Jack: "Well, the bottom line is we can't trust these people."

Sam: "Well, Sir, I'd still like to finish my research on the dome technology."

Daniel: "Yeah, maybe there's something in the archive that can shed some light on this."

Teal’c: "The behavior of the townspeople does seem odd, but they don't appear to be an immediate threat."

Jack: "All right ... see what you can find out."


And yeah, Sam spend s most of that talk looking at Jack.

Sam & Jack For me, it's just more of the same; they're in a good place, both supporting each other, both enjoying their friendship beyond their professionalism - and that's helping to break down the walls they've placed on their deeper feelings for each other so occasionally there's a glimpse of something in a look or a caution to be careful.

Yes, nothing particularly stand out (oh hey, this is season 7 so we can hardly complain about the odd episode devoid of obvious ship ) but some nice interaction that reinforces what we already know.



The only other thing I wanted to add is, didn't they get their money out the crane they hired for the overhead shots?
Beautifully done, as always, and they worked so well with this landscape where the cobble stone streets in the town made such an interesting focus.

[Lucycat]

To quote RDA himself "Too many years of jamming them into too small hockey boots". They're... uh, well, I happen to think feet are the single most ugly part of the human anatomy anyway so I'm probably not going to think that highly of any feet, let alone somewhat mangled ones... But then again, who looks at the foundations when the soaring archways are oh so beautiful!

The bts was either the Lost City or the Threads director series... I can't remember which one it was now, but I know it was in Jack's house.

Again, I'm late to the party because I was off-line last week! Anyhoo... I believe you can see O'Neill's bare feet in the season 6 episode, Paradise Lost. He was barefoot for the whole "fishing" scene on the beach. I thought he looked sexy, bdu pants rolled up, bare feet and scruffy beard as he squatted down to tend the fishing line!

[Lucycat]

I've been working all weekend on the review for LIFEBOAT and I just want to say how much I admire all you previous reviewers!! It's not very easy!