Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Rachel500]

Fallen/Homecoming

So great reviews!

Generally

I have to admit to being less than fussed about the opening to S7. It did the job it had to do which was knock Anubis back a peg, get Daniel back into the team and to move Jonas out.

I do love the opening scene with its atmospheric storm and the return of Daniel, almost in a very "newborn" way - he's left naked and vulnerable. I too have no real issues with the speed of Daniel's memories coming back but, like Cags, would have liked more on his reintegration with SG1 properly for the next episode (they kind of pick up on it in Orpheus but not really) because other than the few scenes at the beginning and the final scene at the end we really don't see enough of him with Sam, Jack and Teal'c for me.

I would have liked Jonas to have stayed. While budgetary reasons were given for why they couldn't sustain five regular cast members, I think they could have easily worked out a storyline where Jonas shifted to become a recurring character, one who could have stepped in to make the "fourth" member when Jack was absent (although he's not as absent this season as S6) due to accommodating RDA's reduced schedule. However, in the context of the storyline he's given, I think it works well for Jonas to leave. I don't think he truly "wants" to go (as in if everything was equal and he had a choice), but I think he's committed to doing what's right in the situation and that means going back to help his people rebuild. I too though would have preferred for his final episode not to have been the Big Drilly episode of this season.

Sam and Jack

I think most of it has been said. There is a lot of continuation of the great dynamic that they've worked out through S6 where they're supporting each other and depending on one another out in the field both in diplomacy and in action.

I love the two of them playing tag on Daniel in the beginning - that works so well. And I don't mind the Daniel - is there something between us - because I think it was a natural question for a man with no memory who has just been told by an attractive woman that she thinks he's great and found his death hugely difficult to ask. I think Sam's answer is unequivocal in terms of how she sees her relationship with Daniel; they're great friends but that's all they are.

I don't see the briefing scene quite as shippy as others. I think that he feels able to razz her is an underlying sign of how much he believes she has the ability to handle it and him, and is actually a way of giving her props rather than undermining her. But I do like how he recognises that he didn't make it easy for her and apologises. And I do think the "crazy" discussion is more like a bickering married couple and hence the look from Jonas and Daniel at the end which is very much, "oh they're at it again."

Finally, I do love the two of them flying together and the banter in the 302. Very sweet.

[Sarai]

Banner by Josiane

Fragile Balance

Synopsis

No delays, we jump straight into the story with this one. Carter is called, apparently urgently, to deal with a situation –a young boy appears to have stolen O’Neill’s security card and gained entrance to the base. Intro rolls and we’re straight into Act One where the humour of the episode is established – Young Jack pulling up his jeans and being giving hot chocolate rather than coffee, as well as Daniel’s reaction which is a really great example of the Jack/Daniel banter. Act One is the usual bundle of fairly short, snappy scenes involving humour and analysis of the problem as is the norm for a filler episode like this. As General Hammond so tiredly puts it we quickly “move into the testing portion of this exercise” as the team discover the young boy has almost exactly the same DNA as Jack. In the mess, Carter and Teal’c have some fun at O’Neill’s expense - IMO one of the funniest scenes of the episode (!). As we move into the scene in Jack’s house where the team go through his possessions, fridge etc… trying to ascertain what happened, we start to get hints of the serious nature of what has “happened” to O’Neill – the young O’Neill experiences a flashback in which he sees an Asgard…

Moving in to Act Two, there’s confusion as to why the Asgard would conduct secret experiments as they are now allies with the Tau’ri. Daniel decides to cross reference the glowing green lights part of the flashback with similar accounts from supposed alien abductions in humans over the years. He is ably assisted by Teal’c whilst Carter takes over the F-302 briefing previously to be led by O’Neill. Whilst Teal’c and Daniel go off in search of potential Asgard abductees, Carter starts a rocky F-302 briefing in which the pilots question her experience compared to O’Neill’s. Young Jack storms (!) the briefing, puts the junior officers back in their place and takes over the briefing. Back to the story arc and we see Daniel and Teal’c interviewing various people who all have the same story about their abductions, matching stories to Jack’s. Janet then drops the bomb about the instability of Young Jack’s genetic structure, adding the jeopardy to the ep “Colonel, you’re dying”.

It’s always darkest before the dawn, and Act Three starts with a bleak outlook on the Colonel’s life expectancy. Carter brings in Jacob to see if the Tok’ra can do anything – they ultimately recommend that Jack be put in stasis. A poignant moment with a throw-back to “Frozen” follows as Jack is resistant to the Tok’ra’s plan, whilst Sam tries to persuade him “Colonel, please.” Rather than taking time to think about his options, Jack escapes the base and attempts to buy some beer. We get some more Jack back story as he bumps into Harlen Beck, an old pilot he flew with in the Gulf War. Jump back to the SGC and with Sel’mak looking at the DNA test results the team quickly deduce that the young Jack is actually a clone. The team then establish the link between the cloned Jack and the Asgard experiment. Beck informs General Hammond of Young Jack’s location and the team round him up, informing him he’s a clone and of their plan to apprehend the Asgard behind the experiment and recover the original. At this point you get a sense not only of the clone’s desire to live but of the poignancy of the situation. As the team are waiting for the switch to take place we get a flash of an Asgard beam and then success! The original O’Neill (complete with thunkalicious bum shot) is back, lying smushed up and asleep against his pillow. Both Daniel and Carter try to wake him but he only opens his eyes after Teal’c says his name.

Young Jack has helpfully been beamed aboard the Asgard ship and uses a Zat gun to free himself of the binds and take out the Asgard. Original Jack starts to talk about his dream when young Jack beams them up. My absolute favourite scene follows with some great acting from Carter, Colonel and Young Jack as everyone quickly gets up to speed – “Carter I should be irked currently. Yes?!”

The team question Loki and learn his experiments on cloning humans are not only unsanctioned by the rest of the Asgard council, but also that he can do nothing for the unstable clone he has created. We are well into Act Four now as Thor shows up and the end of the ep is in sight. Jack’s concern for the clone as he experiences another effect of the gene instability is touching and indicative of the caring character he has. He asks Thor to find a way to help the clone to live and it’s really at this point that you get a sense of the split from open character and clone into two distinct characters. The final scene sees Jack drop off Young Jack at high school giving his younger self a chance to live a different life and do it all over again – something as Sam says, most of us have wished we could at one point or another.

Analysis

Fragile Balance is another one of those episodes that doesn’t have a huge impact, if any, on running story arcs, but that I absolutely love. The plot is just fantastic and even though I think it’s been done elsewhere, the pathos in this episode is hugely compelling and a mirror for the entire show. The acting from Michael Welch is superb throughout the entire episode, who knows how many old tapes he studied but he has RDA’s O’Neill down to a tee, whilst the man himself rattles out a whole host of brilliant lines in just one scene.

This ep is exactly what SG is all about – it’s a fun, quirky, sci-fi show with buckets of humour, superb acting and serious undertones. The banter between Young Jack and Daniel, Teal’c and Carter is snappy and fast paced like the ep itself and is a great indicator for the relationships between the team.

Implications for Sam & Jack

There aren’t so much implications for Sam and Jack in this ep as there are reminders of the connection between them.

The episode kicks off with Carter being requested by the Young Jack – who obviously has all the memories, feelings and knowledge of the older version and has 100% faith in Carter to be able to fix the problem.

Throughout the ep there are some great looks between the Carter and Young Jack. The scene in the commissary is great, very funny, and with a stern, albeit slightly jokey, reprimand from Young Jack about his rank and her lack of respect.

Perhaps the most poignant of these is the moments in the berifing room which harks back to the Season 6 ep, Frozen. As Jacob is explaining the plan to put Young Jack in stasis, Sam is the first to speak out with a “Colonel, please,” whilst Daniel and Teal’c stay silent and General Hammond expresses that it is Jack’s choice – Sam is the only one to really ask him to go along with the Tok’ra’s plan.

Having said that, the look on Carter’s face as the Old Jack and Young Jack come face to face on Loki’s ship is beautiful –

She looks to me as if she’s really drinking him in and probably breathing a huge inner sigh of relief that he is back and no worse for wear. It’s a really loving look and one of my fav screen shots of the couple.

And at that point, I’ll open up the ep for discussion! Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

[josiane]

Great review, Sarai! I love Fragile Balance too, it's a great episode and I'm with you in being really impressed with Michael Welch for a note-perfect performance I have to admit though I'm not a huge fan of the ending - it always feels a bit as if the writers wrote themselves into a corner and weren't entirely sure how to get themselves out of it. I think narratively it would have been most satisfying for Young Jack to die, but of course, emotionally that would be hard to watch and make the ending into a tragedy, rather than something more positive with Young Jack heading off for his new life. But considering they never return to Young Jack ever again it leaves a slightly weird loose end, IMO.

The episode kicks off with Carter being requested by the Young Jack – who obviously has all the memories, feelings and knowledge of the older version and has 100% faith in Carter to be able to fix the problem.

I always think this scene is quite a call-back to Point of View - Sam's reactions to Young Jack are very similar to Jack's to Alternate Carter. And considering that Alternate Carter requested Jack because they were married, there's a bit of a shippy implication there that of everyone Young Jack could ask for, it's Sam

Throughout the ep there are some great looks between the Carter and Young Jack. The scene in the commissary is great, very funny, and with a stern, albeit slightly jokey, reprimand from Young Jack about his rank and her lack of respect.

I love Sam's attitude to Young Jack. You can really see her instinct to find him 'kinda cute' warring with her knowledge that it's still her CO, and I love that it basically makes her drop her guard. Because I bet she finds Old Jack kinda cute too when he's being goofy

Perhaps the most poignant of these is the moments in the berifing room which harks back to the Season 6 ep, Frozen. As Jacob is explaining the plan to put Young Jack in stasis, Sam is the first to speak out with a “Colonel, please,” whilst Daniel and Teal’c stay silent and General Hammond expresses that it is Jack’s choice – Sam is the only one to really ask him to go along with the Tok’ra’s plan.

Absolutely - yet another example of Sam being able to get Jack to do pretty much anything when she uses the P word

And I love that screencap too

[Petra]

RL is busy (no time for rewatching) and I'm bummed by expected cancellation of SGU which I've come to love, so my apologies for writing from memory, and/or any harshness.

Personally I consider only the first 8 seasons to be "true SG-1", and out of those, season 7 is my least favourite, so I'll try (another matter, that due to RL I won't even have to try hard) to limit my posts as to not ruin your fun. But while I'm still here bear with me please.

Jonas
I’m probably going to be unpopular for saying this, but I think Jonas exit was well-done. I know some think it was like saying “don’t let the iris hit you on the way out.” But I thought it gave his character a complete and satisfying arc. I did like seeing Daniel and Jonas working together, but I couldn’t see both of them on the team and I can’t think of any scenario where I would be satisfied with Daniel on the show but not part of the team.

Well, I can't say I'm thrilled Seriously, as Jonas fangirl I have huge issues with his exit, but I'll put it in spoilers for those not interested.

Jonas rant (you all knew it was coming )

Spoiler:

In hindsight I would have prefered to leave Jonas on the team and either not bring Daniel back at all, or make him the recurring character. It could have worked if Daniel was kept as an Ascended Being, coming to his friends' rescue slightly more often than in season 6 (not to mention dreams, flashbacks and such). Or, if he had to be brought back as a human, let him recover his memories plus the memories from the time he was ascended, but not his professional knowledge. This way his and Jonas' areas of expertise would have been different. Daniel would concentrate on diplomacy and the Ancients, and Jonas on archeology, communication and science, together with Sam (he was the Naquadria expert after all).

Jonas' return to Kelowna made sense in regards to his arch, but come on: that was the writers' choice. They easily could have come up with something else, especially given that throughout the last season Jonas was being set up at this very special human with special abilities. IIRC the ATA gene was supposed to be his, he was to discover Atlantis etc. There were so many places the writers could have gone with him that his send off to Kelowna is really grating.

Finally, it's not his farewell scene in Homecoming that leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but the treatment of his character afterwards. I hate how TPTB pretended he never existed. SG-1 members never mentioned him, secondary characters didn't seem to remember him at all, no one ever asked about him even when it was breaking continuity (e.g. when Warrick comes back in Space Race and never once asks about Jonas, instead treating Daniel like he knew him all his life, despite them meeting for the first time ever. And it wasn't a single event.)

In addition Daniel's return cancelled out all of Jack's character development, much of Sam's newly gained skills and left Teal'c with no real partner. And it wasn't the Daniel I knew and loved who returned either, so for me there was no gain, only loss.

And I think he has a nice moment of farewell with each member of the team at the end.

He had nice moments with Hammond, Teal'c, Sam and Daniel but I still yell at tv when it's Jack's turn. After he warmed up to him in Prophecy, there's not even a handshake?! That's poor class.

But of course I'm biased by Daniel Wars and some Daniel fans' glee at Jack's indifference which they took as a proof that he hated Jonas all along and couldn't wait to get rid of him.

Overall, despite Jonas leaving, I really like both episodes - they are some of the season's highpoints. I agree that it's a wonderfully team-y 2-parter, and that's one of the major factors in my enjoyment. Like others, I would have loved to have more time given to Daniel's reintegration into SG-1, but alas, it was not to be.

(And truthfully, I just love Teal’c to pieces.)

Hey, who doesn't?

I love take charge Sam. She shows a lot of confidence and leadership here, and not just when Jack is there to back her up.

Big fat ditto. IMO Homecoming is a much better episode for leader!Sam than much touted Evolution, where she's not really in charge at all.

S/J

Without rewatching, I can't comment on the briefing scene. I remember not having any issues with it, and then after some discussion noticing certain problems, but I honestly don't remember enough to say something more. I'll come back to that later, hopefully.

Everything else has been said. Sam and Jack continue their easy-going, comfortable friendship established in season 6.

S/D scene

I felt I needed to address it, since it was me who'd made such fuss about similar scene in Meridian. Strangely, this time it doesn't bother me in the slightest I agree with the reasoning that it was only natural for Daniel to ask about possible relationship in the circumstances, and Sam was very clear on lack of any romantic feelings between them.

FRAGILE BALANCE

I have to admit though I'm not a huge fan of the ending - it always feels a bit as if the writers wrote themselves into a corner and weren't entirely sure how to get themselves out of it. I think narratively it would have been most satisfying for Young Jack to die, but of course, emotionally that would be hard to watch and make the ending into a tragedy, rather than something more positive with Young Jack heading off for his new life. But considering they never return to Young Jack ever again it leaves a slightly weird loose end, IMO.

While I admire MW's performance and think it was a clever idea how to make Jack-centric episode without RDA, I can't say I like it. I don't dislike it either, I'm very much 'meh' about it. Why? Because for me it's just a wasted opportunity and I positively hate creepy ending. I too wish TPTB had the guts to kill clone!Jack off. Really, the best thing about the episode is that it was an inspiration for mini!verse in fanfiction.

I always think this scene is quite a call-back to Point of View - Sam's reactions to Young Jack are very similar to Jack's to Alternate Carter. And considering that Alternate Carter requested Jack because they were married, there's a bit of a shippy implication there that of everyone Young Jack could ask for, it's Sam

I've never thought of that. Good catch!

PS. As usual, great reviews everyone!

[Cagranosalis]

Great review Sarai! I'm just going to take a moment or ten to stare at that picture some more.

I do like Fragile Balance on the whole, but there are nits.

Great review, Sarai! I love Fragile Balance too, it's a great episode and I'm with you in being really impressed with Michael Welch for a note-perfect performance

It's funny because I know opinions are really divided on his performance but, honestly, I loved it. I had a few issues with the things that were written for him to do/say/around his character (which i will get to in a moment) but not his performance.

I have to admit though I'm not a huge fan of the ending - it always feels a bit as if the writers wrote themselves into a corner and weren't entirely sure how to get themselves out of it. I think narratively it would have been most satisfying for Young Jack to die, but of course, emotionally that would be hard to watch and make the ending into a tragedy, rather than something more positive with Young Jack heading off for his new life. But considering they never return to Young Jack ever again it leaves a slightly weird loose end, IMO.

ITA! Young Jack... really old Jack in a young man's body - going off to live his life, go back to school. Hang on? He had the memories and feelings of old!Jack. Including the pain of the death of his son, his divorce, torture at the hands of Ba'al (and probably before in his special ops days) and his feelings for Sam. And, we're supposed to just accept he's walked away from everything he ever knew and he's happy to go back to school (which I'm fairly sure would bore him senseless since he's got to have a degree to be doing the job he is) and, not only that, but he's eyeing up teenage girls. It's just a bit... ickky.

I always think this scene is quite a call-back to Point of View - Sam's reactions to Young Jack are very similar to Jack's to Alternate Carter. And considering that Alternate Carter requested Jack because they were married, there's a bit of a shippy implication there that of everyone Young Jack could ask for, it's Sam

Oh nice catch!

A couple of other things I love:

That it takes Teal'c's calm "O'Neill" to wake Jack where Daniel's "Jack" and Sam's "Colonel" have failed. I also love the way he sleeps. And doesn't he look cute sleeping.

The fact that, although RDA was only in it for a few moments, I really didn't notice. It didn't feel like a Jack lite episode at all. I have to give the writers credit for coming up with such a great way to explain away Jack's absence and us not notice.


Things I didn't like:

Apart from the ending of course.

Jack's game playing / comic reading. I know he's trapped in a young boy's body and I know our Jack probably wouldn't be completely unamused by a games console or Mad magazine but, somehow, someway, it just seems a bit presumptuous of everyone to assume he's got the concerns of a young boy too. Particularly as this is the same Jack we've previous seen playing chess and listening to opera. The whole feel would have been more effective if they'd had young Jack acting his age a bit more at times.

And I also had a bit of an issue with the whole F302 briefing. Sam being undermined like that just for comic effect is frustrating. She could and and would have been totally capable of holding her own. She's had almost as much flight experience as Jack and helped design the thing so why would the team of junior officers even begin to question why she was doing the breifing. I know, I know; it's all for the comedic element of Jack turning up like he did but they could have achieved that without having Sam's authority undermined in this way. I just found it a bit sloppy writing.

But really, that's the only nits I have in an otherwise enjoyable episode.

[Nynaeve506]

Fragile Balance...

For me this was one episode that seemed a little wrong to end on the typical "up" note that SG-1 usually does. Jack drops clone!Jack off at high school and they agree never to meet again but...

It's so hollow. I don't know about you, but while there's the idle daydream of "if only I knew then what I knew now", who could stand to sit in a classroom knowing everything, having experienced everything, and ALSO suffer typical teenage drama? Jack, of all people, hates drama.

I'm a fan of clone!Jack fic, more of the tragic variety. I imagine him spiraling into a depression that he can't get out of until he finally carries out the thing that he was stopped from doing right before the first mission to Abydos.

I know, I'm a mood killer. (They tease me at work for being a little ray of sunshine).

Plus, I'm of the mind that Jack knows exactly how he feels about Sam. He's not a man who loves easily or often. Clone!Jack has now lost Sara, Charlie, and Sam - not to mention everything that had given his life meaning.

/rant.

As for Jonas:

Spoiler:

I've never made it a secret - I've always liked JQ over DJ. JQ had a better sense of humor

[Aveo_amacus]

I do really like this episode (despite what I mention below!!!) as y'all have said MW's performance and mannerisms are spot on and it's some of the quirky old-school SG1 storylines that we all know and love
(can I also say I'm a little proud/surprised of the restraint not to post the "thunkalicious bum shot"??)

ITA! Young Jack... really old Jack in a young man's body - going off to live his life, go back to school. Hang on? He had the memories and feelings of old!Jack. Including the pain of the death of his son, his divorce, torture at the hands of Ba'al (and probably before in his special ops days) and his feelings for Sam. And, we're supposed to just accept he's walked away from everything he ever knew and he's happy to go back to school (which I'm fairly sure would bore him senseless since he's got to have a degree to be doing the job he is) and, not only that, but he's eyeing up teenage girls. It's just a bit... ickky.

Totally agreed on the ick factor there - and thus leading to many many Young Sam and Young team fan fics allowing Young Jack to ride off into the sunset - or wait a few years and re-join the SGC depending on the author...
But I'm not sure Young Jack's death would have fit in the slightly quirky feel to the episode - but tehn I'm sure the writers could have managed! I always wondered if they kept him alive in case they had plants to bring him back and then never quite got round to it - or thought it wouldn't be well received?

The fact that, although RDA was only in it for a few moments, I really didn't notice. It didn't feel like a Jack lite episode at all. I have to give the writers credit for coming up with such a great way to explain away Jack's absence and us not notice.

Totally agree, it was a clever plot device that fooled the audience more than "face switching" or something

Jack's game playing / comic reading. I know he's trapped in a young boy's body and I know our Jack probably wouldn't be completely unamused by a games console or Mad magazine but, somehow, someway, it just seems a bit presumptuous of everyone to assume he's got the concerns of a young boy too. Particularly as this is the same Jack we've previous seen playing chess and listening to opera. The whole feel would have been more effective if they'd had young Jack acting his age a bit more at times.

And I also had a bit of an issue with the whole F302 briefing. Sam being undermined like that just for comic effect is frustrating. She could and and would have been totally capable of holding her own. She's had almost as much flight experience as Jack and helped design the thing so why would the team of junior officers even begin to question why she was doing the breifing. I know, I know; it's all for the comedic element of Jack turning up like he did but they could have achieved that without having Sam's authority undermined in this way. I just found it a bit sloppy writing.

I also agree with these last two points as well, both I think done for comic effect but not really necessary/wanted. Whilst the first is pretty harmless and could be explained as Jack just deciding to act as he pleases because he 'can', the second point does really bug me. Although I understand that Jack has to be frustrated with being 'the kid' he really undermines Carter by basically saying the pilots have/should have more respect for the kid than for her. He's spent 7 years grooming her for command etc and then kinda swashes her a bit.
- Maybe Jack had spent too long in his teenage body at this point!
The reason given - weird stuff happens around here get used to it has some merits but... I'm just not convinced

[Petra]

Although I understand that Jack has to be frustrated with being 'the kid' he really undermines Carter by basically saying the pilots have/should have more respect for the kid than for her. He's spent 7 years grooming her for command etc and then kinda swashes her a bit.
- Maybe Jack had spent too long in his teenage body at this point!
The reason given - weird stuff happens around here get used to it has some merits but... I'm just not convinced

Ok, I do think that this scene comes across as sexist and it's another example of TPTB not thinking through their idea and how it can be seen (like, say, Daniel's rape in 'Hathor'), but I disagree that Jack's at fault here. How does he undermine Sam, exactly? He behaves perfectly IC; he woke up in a body of teenager, is confined to the base, his team is on stand-down and there's absolutely nothing for him to do. I'm not surprised that he tried to do something "normal" that would let him feel useful and respected, when everybody's around teasing him and having fun.

All the sexist behaviour shown in the scene is exhibited by the pilots in the briefing - how is it Jack's fault? Besides it's not like Sam meekly takes it, IMO she handles the whole situation very well, calmly putting particularly loud captain in his place. In fact I'd say Jack stressed her commanding presence by trusting her to take care of the situation herself and not interfering in any way. As to the fact that male pilots are portrayed as sexists? It isn't exactly big news.

[hedwig]

I haven't got much to say that others haven't already said.

I agree that Michael Welch did a great job of portraying Jack. I can't explain why, but I also found his portrayal very irritating and grating. Maybe because he picked Jack's less than positive mannerisms to portray. I found him to be overly annoying, and quite disrespectful. Adult Jack does that, too, but it somehow comes across as a bit easier to accept (sorry, can't explain that any better). Perhaps it was because of being in a kid's body, but I found him to be whiny and demanding (though I suppose that's reasonable given the situation he finds himself in).

As to the issue of barging in and taking over the training session, I agree with those who felt he was disrespectful of Sam. Hammond had already told him Sam was in charge of that session, and Jack was NOT to be a part of it. So what does he do, but disobey Hammond, go straight to the training session, get in a physical confrontation with the airmen outside the room, and then waltz in, snarl at the trainees, who almost immediately accept that he's who he says he is - though I give them points for looking to Sam for confirmation that he is who he says he is, and only take her word for it - and dives right in. I half expected him to tell Sam she was dismissed and could leave.

I also was a bit put off by how easily the pilots accepted mini-Jack. One objection, he snarls at them, they look at Sam (who nods to confirm he is J.O.), and on with the lesson. Given how rarely anybody believes anybody else around the SGC, and the lengths a person has to go to in order to be believed, this just adds to my problems with this episode (in spite of the fact, that I did like it). It also adds to my opinion that Jack is most often believed when some off-the-wall, weird event takes place around the SGC, and pretty much everybody else has to go to far greater lengths in order to be believed.

I know this episode was done for the purposes of humor, but it still bothered me that Jack had been massively compromised and yet even after it was determined that it was indeed him, he was still allowed to roam around freely, without an escort or guard (even though there was one outside his room, but apparently nowhere else). Until it was discovered how and why he was in the condition he was in, he should not have been allowed to roam around freely as he was. He was a security threat, and yet everybody seemed to view the whole thing as a joke (for the most part).

[Aveo_amacus]

I'm not saying Jack's behaviour is sexist per se the pilots' yes, and I can see that Jack would be annoyed at not being allowed to do something - especially something he was *supposed* to be doing in the first place. But my problem with it is when he takes over from Sam he's basically saying he doesn't think she could handle doing the briefing, can't handle dealing with the pilots - when we know from a few eps back that Carter's a great pilot and can handle anything with an engine, especially when she helped build/design it. That might not be what the writers planned that's kinda how it comes across to me

[Akamaimom]

I don't see it the same way, I guess. I see it is him being a little self-absorbed, maybe, that he's being passed over, but not in any way denigrating to Sam. Because (as far as we know) she hasn't piloted the ship. She hasn't been in control of it--he has. And rather than making the briefing all be about her and her abilities, he's just frustrated at them for not recognizing that he still has his abilities, and knowledge, and experience, even though he's been crammed into a younger body.

And really, the other pilots were questioning this--as I would, to be quite honest. It would be like taking a driver's ed course from someone who could design cars, but didn't have any experience driving one. We know Sam is a pilot, but is there evidence that she's flown this particular craft? As far as I can remember, she's only been an involved passenger. And my brother, who is an airline pilot, will tell you that there is a difference between first and second seat.

So, I have never been particularly bothered by this whole exchange. While we all know that Sam is a capable pilot, and accept fic as truth that she's a phenomenal talent in the ship, the other pilots in that room would rather have real world experience from the first seat.


Maybe I'm naive--that's just how I see it.

[Petra]

^^^THIS. What Aka said. I agree 100%.

Maybe this scene sticks out like a sore thumb because it's quite realistic, and the rest of the episode..isn't.

[Cagranosalis]

^^^THIS. What Aka said. I agree 100%.

Maybe this scene sticks out like a sore thumb because it's quite realistic, and the rest of the episode..isn't.

Although while I think there's realism there I would hope that officers would have more respect for superiors/peers than to behave quite like that.

My biggest problem isn't with Jack or with the fact the pilots questioned her for doing the briefing- I'd expect them to ask where the person who was supposed to be doing it was. But it was the way it was done - drawn out with Sam's deficiencies in being capable emphasised. It should have been "Colonel O'Neill is unavailable" and they moved on. As I say, I understand the comic effect of doing it this way but it painted the pilots in a bad light too. I don't think Jack was undermining Sam himself; I just think he wanted to prove a point about his capabilities (and he sai himself they have to get used to weird stuff happening) but the overall effect was to make Sam look less than competent.

[Rachel500]

Fragile Balance

Generally

Not one of my favourite episodes. I think the idea is intriguing but the whole is played mostly for laughs (except for the brief period where they think it is Jack who is dying rather than the clone) and that really doesn't gell with what is actually happening: the clone's memories and experience as Jack trapped in a fifteen year old body, losing his entire life by virtue of being a clone. At least the robot clones got to have each other. I think the braver decision would have been to have killed him off in the end.

Sam and Jack

I love that Clone!Jack immediately asks for Sam because he has absolute confidence in her to fix him. It's a sign of Jack's faith in Sam's abilities that he does so.

The briefing room scene in contrast is weird. I've been reading the debate with interest and I guess I come down somewhere in the middle.

I don't really have a problem with the opening of the scene where Sam is faced off with the pilots. She handles them well if with some underlying frustration at their attitude. Now while I agree that we never get to see Sam fly the 302, she did volunteer in Redemption to fly it on their attempt to contact the Asgard. It was only that Jack offered to go with that as a result Sam ended up as a second chair. And she seems to lead him through the start-up routine and explaining what everything is in that episode indicating she could have flown it. So between Redemption and Fallen/Homecoming for Sam not to have had a flown a 302 at least once in a test situation seems to me unlikely. Having said that, Jack has the experience of flying the 302 in a battle situation and does have relevant knowledge so the pilots' point is valid if a little rudely delivered.

Clone!Jack's interruption to me isn't wildly out of character given the stress of the scenario - he's frustrated, he's being prevented from doing his job, he has information he wants to deliver to the pilots to help prevent them from getting killed. And I can see him thinking, I'll just pop along and check how things are going, maybe sit in so Carter can throw questions at me if necessary. But. His barging along to the briefing and subsequently taking over once Sam lets him in suggests that he doesn't have confidence in Sam to impart the knowledge the pilots need. Now if he believed he had some knowledge Sam didn't then he should have given that to her *before* the briefing so she went in fully prepared. That would have been the responsible thing to do and I can't see Sam not asking him or checking things over with him before she did the briefing. Now given the esteem in which Jack holds Carter, his mentorship of her as her leader and CO, I just don't buy that in a normal situation he wouldn't (having provided her with everything he wanted to say himself if he could do it) trust her to take the briefing herself rather than give into a frustration of not being able to do it himself.

I tend to reconcile the briefing scene as being a big clue that this isn't Jack but Clone!Jack. That Jack fully grown and adult would not have barged in and taken over. But this is a Clone who has begun to make his own choices, hampered by the physiology and hormones of his younger body. It leads onto the second choice that the Clone makes in not allowing Sam's plea to sway him in regards to the Tok'ra. Would adult Jack have allowed Sam to persuade him? Possibly not in fairness but I can't see adult Jack breaking out of the SGC and running away from the decision because he's scared either.

Finally, I do love the reunion scenes and the quote of "Carter, I should be irked by this." Because again, our Jack does turn to her for answers in the Asgard ship which takes us back to the beginning really to when Clone!Jack was most like Original!Jack: one who trusts in Sam absolutely.

[Aveo_amacus]

not to mention

"I haven't had coffee, let alone a pee in 7 days and I find out you stole my ass and, made a ... mini-me"

classic Jack