Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[dipsofjazz]

hmm my favorite thread still alive, iam really happy

Welcome back, dex.

[Cagranosalis]

Hi all. The rewatch for Season 7 starts tomorrow. The schedule is as follows:



(Imagine pretty banner here while I wander off and hunt it down. )


Fallen: 04-Oct: Josiane
Homecoming: 04-Oct: hlndncr
Fragile Balance: 07-Oct: Sarai
Orpheus: 11-Oct: Akamaimom
Revisions: 14-Oct: hlndncr
Lifeboat: 18-Oct: Lucycat
Enemy Mine: 21-Oct: Josiane
Space Race: 25-Oct: hlndncr
Avenger 2.0: 28-Oct: Cagranosalis
Birthright: 01-Nov: hlndncr
Evolution 1: 04-Nov: Rachel500
Evolution2: 04-Nov: Akamaimom
Grace: 08-Nov: Josiane
Fallout: 11-Nov: Rachel500
Chimera: 15-Nov: Nynaeve506
Death Knell: 18-Nov: Sarai
Heroes 1: 22-Nov: Cagranosalis
Heroes 2: 22-Nov: Akamaimom
Ressurection: 25-Nov: Josiane
Inauguration: 29-Nov: Cagranosalis
Lost City 1: 02-Dec: Lucycat
Lost City 2: 03-Dec: Cagranosalis

Subject to RL induced blips of course.


P.S. For those awaiting banners, I'm waiting for the challenge post. Will be tomorrow now but you'll get it a soon as it's posted.

[EvenstarSRV]

I agree with everything Cags wrote. I just wanted to add that the above is why, IMO, once they realised they had feelings for each other, neither of them did anything about it. I know that the antis say that if they really loved each other they'd do whatever was necessary to no longer be in the same chain of command and get together immediately, but by doing so they'd risk their friendship, working relationship and they'd split the best, most successful SG team ever. Which was unacceptable for them both.

I've never understood that 'love at all costs' mentality in general, and especially not in the case of Sam and Jack whether for or against the pairing.

I'm not sure if the frat regs, even if they were exactly like ours, would apply to AU Jack and Sam. Maybe in the first reality, where Jack was a general and in charge of the base, but in the other one? Jack was SG-1's leader, Sam was civilian scientist working in the labs - I don't see why they wouldn't be allowed to see each other or get together?

Well, my main point was that I don't think it was simply the fact that Sam was a civilian that allowed her and Jack to have a relationship, because IMO civilians are required to follow the rules like the military personnel, but the fact that in those AUs their history together and working relationship was quite different. In the POV AU Sam was apparently a civilian scientist and Jack SG-1 leader, therefore not in the direct chain of command and therefore the regs didn't forbid a relationship. If in that AU Sam was a civilian scientist assigned to SG-1 under Jack's command, then the regs would have applied, IMO. The Grace of God AU is murkier, but I'm guessing if Sam and Jack started the relationship sometime after the Abydos mission and before the founding of the SGC, ie before they were put into the direct chain of command, then an established relationship would have been ok within the regs, but that's just an assumption.

This is also why I don't think you can extrapolate too far from the AUs Sam and Jacks as to how our Sam and Jack could or should have gotten together sooner. Because even if after D&C or Grace they had been able to work out all of their conscious or subconscious issues and both decided that they wanted to start a relationship, they still wouldn't have been able to without majorly restructuring the team (and the show) because the regs did apply to them in a way they never did for the AU couples. That's why I always come back to the regs being the primary reason why they didn't get together sooner, because even if they'd been able to sort out everything else they still couldn't have acted on their feelings until they were out of the direct chain of command with each other, and that only happened post-Threads. All of the other issues were factors, but the regs were the true limiting factor in the Sam/Jack equation IMHO.

[josiane]

Season 7 is a go...

Banner by Luvnjack

Synopsis

It's the worst morning-after-the-night-before ever for Daniel, as he wakes up naked in a field on some random planet with no memory of who he is or how he got there (a pan-galactic gargle blaster, perhaps?). Fortunately for him, he doesn't have to wait too long before SG1 come to pay a visit, and bring him back to the SGC with them where they proceed to concoct a daring plan to neutralise that pesky super-weapon that Daniel rather gifted Anubis at the end of season 6. Said plan goes mostly according to plan, except that Jonas gets himself captured, and ends the episode with Anubis hulking over him like a big, black, hulking thing, holding a rather evil looking spiky brain torture device...

Analysis

This is a big old restart episode, kicking off all sorts of things and really setting up the season to come in true SG1 style, but it's also very much an episode of two halves - first the Daniel returning bit, and then the let's-go-kick-Anubis's-backside bit - and feels like it. So I'm going to analyse it in two parts, but first I'm going to fangirl all over the direction (oh look, it's a Martin ep, what a suprise ) and the production, because this episode is really gorgeously done! These things in particular are just visually stunning:
- The very beginning, with the stormy sky and real feel of something building, a storm on the way, and that fantastic overhead shot of nekkid!Daniel - really atmospheric
- The long long tracking shot following Jonas through the SGC from his/Daniel's lab right up to Hammond's office - an early go at the famous first shot of Continuum
- The colours in the scenes on the planet where they find Daniel - all those blue clothes against the red stonework
- The lighting of the scenes in the tent when first Jack and then Sam go to speak to Daniel. Notice how Daniel's face is exactly half in shadow, half in light, whereas Sam and Jack are fully lit - almost as if to demonstrate how Daniel is on the cusp between the darkness of amnesia and the light of his true self
- All the spacefight scenes with Sam and Jack in the 302, and the gliders and the mothership, especially of course the Star Wars homage - fantastic special effects

*sigh* How much do we <3 Martin Wood?

Anyway... the first half of this episode deals with Daniel's return. There's a lot of nice parallels/call-backs to Daniel's first return, in CotG, it seems to me. Daniel is just as lost as he was then, if for a different reason, and I really like that they dressed him in one of those jumpsuits, like the one that he wore the first time he came back to the SGC. And of course there's the fact that Sha're is the thing he remembers first, and the conversation with Jack about Charlie. It all has quite a retro feel to it, but of course is also showing how much, as Jack says, "things changed". I also noticed this time that the music that plays over the scene where Daniel is in bed and wakes up with his memory of Sha're is the same as plays in Abyss while Jack is hallucinating - meant to indicate a theme of struggling to hold on to/find who you are when trauma has robbed you of your memories perhaps?

The way Daniel is brought back is very nicely done, I think. On the planet, it's Jack and Sam that speak to him, and the approach they takes complements each other very well. Jack focuses on the facts about Daniel - who he is, what he does in terms of identity and actions - whereas Sam focuses on the emotions - who he is and what he does in terms of his beliefs and morals and the effect he has on other people. It's entirely in keeping with both their characters that these are the approaches they'd take - Jack isn't going to go touchy feely, and for Sam it's a nice counterpoint to her last scene with him in Meridian, very much along the same theme. I know that the fact that Daniel asks her whether they were ever involved has been much discussed - my two penn'orth on the matter is that it doesn't mean anything really. Sam was trying to win through to him with feelings, after all, so it's not a huge jump in logic for Daniel, with no memory, to come to that conclusion. And Sam brushes it off very fast, and her embarrassed reaction is more along the lines of 'oops, misunderstanding' than her classic 'oops, busted' embarrassed reaction that we see for example in Heroes. Teal'c doesn't get to talk to Daniel before they come home, but that's made up for by the scene where Daniel goes to talk to Teal'c when he wakes up. Of course, it being the middle of the night, there was presumably only Teal'c there to talk to, but it also seems right for Daniel to first talk about Sha're with Teal'c, given that so much of their early relationship was about overcoming the fact that Teal'c was largely responsible for Sha're's goa'ulding in the first place - another call-back to Daniel's first return in season 1, I think.

Not a lot of time is given to Daniel's mental recovery, really, which part of me wishes wasn't the case, but it is entirely in keeping with the way SG1 works in general - move the story forward, get to the action, and leave the navel-gazing largely off-screen - so I'm not going to complain about it too much. I do want to comment on the transition scene though, in the briefing room where Daniel effectively rejoins SG1 as we get the exposition for what is going to happen in the second part of the episode. At first, as Daniel arrives, he's very much the outsider - standing up, away from them all, with them all looknig at him. Then, when he makes his case and is allowed to stay, he takes the spare seat at the table, and suddenly Jonas is the outsider - he's the one standing up, and note that after Daniel wins their little argument about the correct translation of the Lost City on the tablet, the camera doesn't cut back to Jonas at all any more - all the focus is now on the 'old' SG1, including Daniel, as they continue the discussion. Very effectively Daniel has now symbolically pushed Jonas out of SG1, even though it takes him another episode or so to actually go. Part of me thinks it's a shame that Jonas was pushed out so quickly by Daniel, as as we see in this episode, the two of them do work pretty well together, and the element of slight competitiveness works well, I think, but I guess ultimately they're too similar in terms of skillsets, and one of them was always going to be the fifth wheel.

The rest of the episode is basically a lot of good old actiony fun, with an insane plan to take out Anubis's superweapon (and thereby undo the damage that Daniel did at the end of Full Circle and restore the balance of power for the season to come), lots of stuff blowing up, and some seed-sowing for the future with the doddery Yu and Jonas getting captured. Most of the rest of the stuff I want to comment on is S/J related, so I will come to that in a minute, but first I just have to mention "keyword search" (*librarian fistpump*)

S/J stuff

As we have been discussing at the end of season 6, Sam and Jack are in a very comfortable place at this stage in time, and that is borne out in their exchanges in this episode. There's quite a few nice little looks (eg, after Daniel calls Jack 'Jim', and in particular the one after Jack says 'Honesty is the best policy', where he's looking at Sam all pleased with himself, practically puffing out his feathers saying 'look how clever I am, aren't I clever, aren't I?', wanting her approval), and some lovely exchanges when they're up in the 302. This one in particular I love:
I want to see what this thing's made of.
I could tell you exactly, Sir (rather flirtatiously, with the 'Sir' almost as an afterthought)
Another time, maybe, please (rather strained )
I do so love the subtle implication in the tones of voice that it's not because of boredom or having a rather lot going on, but because of other effects that her technobabble might possibly have on him...

And then of course there's the briefing, where the snark levels are dialled up to 11 from both of them as Sam briefs everyone on the plan and Jack makes no secret of his misgivings. I have to admit that this scene really bugged me the first time I saw it - I felt that Jack was being rather over-the-top in his snark and effectively undermining Sam in front of a whole load of other people. However on multiple rewatchings (and after spending far more time than is probably healthy pondering and dissecting the every nuance of their relationship - but hey, here I'm not alone in that ) it no longer bothers me like it did. There's two reasons for that - one, Sam snarks right back at him, and two, Jack apologises. Both of these are actually pretty huge things, I think. We know Sam is more than capable of snark (look who her father is, after all, and of course we see more snark from Sam in later seasons too), but she generally doesn't, not to Jack (except very occasionally) and certainly not in front of other people. But here she's letting rip every bit as much as he is - she's not going to let him get away with what he's doing, and I think it says a lot about the level of comfort that there is in their relationship at this point that she feels she can do that. And then of course, as everyone else files out, Jack apologises (again quite a big thing for him to do I think) - ie, message received and understood - and then they basically make up with the 'wackier than...' exchange, which is back to light-hearted snark, as opposed to the gritted-teeth snark of earlier in the scene. I'd be really interested to hear what everyone else makes of this scene though.

I do unequivocally love Daniel and Jonas's little look right after the aforementioned scene though - Jenn made a gif that sums that up really rather splendidly, which I will link to here as a parting gift

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...ent/Fallen.gif

[Jumble]

Season 7 is a go...

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...banner1003.jpg
Banner by Luvnjack

Synopsis

It's the worst morning-after-the-night-before ever for Daniel, as he wakes up naked in a field on some random planet with no memory of who he is or how he got there. Fortunately for him, he doesn't have to wait too long before SG1 come to pay a visit, and bring him back to the SGC with them where they proceed to concoct a daring plan to neutralise that pesky super-weapon that Daniel rather gifted Anubis at the end of season 6. Said plan goes mostly according to plan, except that Jonas gets himself captured, and ends the episode with Anubis hulking over him like a big, black, hulking thing, holding a rather evil looking spiky brain torture device...

Analysis

This is a big old restart episode, kicking off all sorts of things and really setting up the season to come in true SG1 style, but it's also very much an episode of two halves - first the Daniel returning bit, and then the let's-go-kick-Anubis's-backside bit - and feels like it. So I'm going to analyse it in two parts, but first I'm going to fangirl all over the direction (oh look, it's a Martin ep, what a suprise ) and the production, because this episode is really gorgeously done! These things in particular are just visually stunning:
- The very beginning, with the stormy sky and real feel of something building, a storm on the way, and that fantastic overhead shot of nekkid!Daniel - really atmospheric
- The long long tracking shot following Jonas through the SGC from his/Daniel's lab right up to Hammond's office - an early go at the famous first shot of Continuum
- The colours in the scenes on the planet where they find Daniel - all those blue clothes against the red stonework
- The lighting of the scenes in the tent when first Jack and then Sam go to speak to Daniel. Notice how Daniel's face is exactly half in shadow, half in light, whereas Sam and Jack are fully lit - almost as if to demonstrate how Daniel is on the cusp between the darkness of amnesia and the light of his true self
- All the spacefight scenes with Sam and Jack in the 302, and the gliders and the mothership, especially of course the Star Wars homage - fantastic special effects

*sigh* How much do we <3 Martin Wood?

Very very very much, for he is AWESOME!!!

Sorry, I just had to

Brilliant review Josiane

[josiane]

Very very very much, for he is AWESOME!!!

Sorry, I just had to

Brilliant review Josiane

Of course you did

[Cagranosalis]

Dammmit, Jumble beat me to it. But yeah. I agree. Are you very shocked?


Awesome review Josi. I am glad you said that about the snark in that briefing scene. I completely agree. I love that scene for all the reasons you put.
I shall be back tomorrow with something more detailed but too late/tired right now.

[Akamaimom]

FAB analysis! I completely agree about the snarky scene--although it's never bothered me at all. I always took that particular exchange as a sign that they are so VERY comfortable with each other. And beyond that, comfortable with everyone knowing that they're comfortable with each other.

[hlndncr]

WooHoo d for Season 7! (Yes, as Josi pointed out, these two eps are Martin Wood specials.) And great job kicking us off Josi! Now I have a lot to live up to.

Banner by Me

Summary
(with thanks to the GW Episode Guide)

Jack and Sam return to the SGC, having successfully destroyed Anubis’s new super-weapon. But with Teal’c still with Yu’s absent fleet and Daniel and Jonas aboard Anubis’s ship, which has fled, they have no idea where to find the rest of their team.

When the Kelownans come under Goa’uld attack they contact the SGC for assistance. Sam and Jack gate to the planet and are able to contact Daniel aboard Anubis’s ship now in orbit over Jonas’s home planet. They learn that Jonas has been captured and surmise that Anubis must be after the naquadriah in order to restore power to his super-weapon. The Kelownan military commander informs them that they have already handed over their entire stockpile, but Jaffa continue to ransack the city. Meanwhile, Daniel has very little time to free Jonas before he becomes visible to the ship’s sensors and is captured himself.

Now a prisoner of Lord Yu, Teal’c learns from the System Lord’s First Prime that his master has become increasingly senile and unreliable. Teal’c convinces him that the best way to serve his master is to defeat Anubis, which can only be done by turning command of the combined fleet to another System Lord. They contact Baal and he agrees to the new plan.

Teal'c returns to Earth to inform the S.G.C. Baal will bring the System Lords' fleet to Kelowna to catch Anubis unawares and destroy his ship, and in exchange the Goa'uld will leave Jonas's planet alone forever. Jack is hesitant to trust a Goa'uld again (especially Baal), but the team and the planet's representatives consent to the plan.

Anubis’s first attempt to use the naquadriah to power the super-weapon fails, and his Jaffa begin searching the antiquities museum Sam surmises that he must be looking for a crystal, which unbeknownst to the Kelownans contain all the research data of the Goa'uld who experimented with naquadria thousand of years ago. She, Teal'c and the Kelownan ambassador go to retrieve the jewel from the museum storage facility, and are taken captive by Jaffa forces.

On the ship, the failure of the weapons test results in a temporary power loss -- freeing Jonas from his cell. He and Daniel determine that the only way off the ship is to try and connect with a ring platform that was part of the same antiquities exhibit as the data crystal. When they ring down to the planet they find themselves in the storage room where Sam and Teal'c are held captive. They take the Jaffa by surprise and are able to free their friends. When they return to the underground storage facility, SG-1 learns that the Kelownan commander has betrayed them, and he hands over the crystal to Anubis’s First Prime, Herak, who immediately executes him.

Baal's fleet emerges from hyperspace and fires a devastating barrage at Anubis's mothership. It begins to climb out of the atmosphere, but is destroyed before it can escape. Anubis himself, however, flees into hyperspace in an escape vessel.

Some shots hit the city, and a skirmish erupts as the underground facility is shaken. Herak escapes through the Stargate, while SG-1 get hold of the crystal and takes out the other Jaffa. Jonas takes a staff weapon blast for Dr. Jackson, saving his life.

After a visit to the S.G.C. infirmary, Jonas prepares to leave Earth. The Kelownan ambassador has invited him back home, telling him that the other nations of their planet would agree to participate in a joint ruling council only if he is the Kelownan representative. He says goodbye to the team, and returns home.

Favorite Scene
So hard to choose. I really like the interaction between Jonas and Daniel when they talk about Daniel returning to SG-1. I also really missed the Jack/Daniel banter like the conversation they have about this situation being “business as usual.” There are also a lot of nice moments with Jack and Sam working together. And, I love the way Teal’c steps up and essentially lays out the strategy for taking out Anubis and gets everyone on board with the plan. So I guess I have to say, the whole episode is my favorite scene.

Favorite Lines
Also hard to choose, but I’ll go with these:

I couldn't remember what this was like.
It's fun, isn't it?
Yeah.

Don't get me wrong, I love the job.
On yeah, who could argue. I mean, lousy hours, constant peril.
On the bright side, you get to travel a lot.
You're very—up.

Generally
I love this episode! It is a great continuation from the previous episode, but at the same time it has it’s own story that is compelling and feels complete. There is a lot of teamy goodness; even though SG-1 is separated for a good portion of the episode, they are still working together seamlessly. And for me, and my extra super heavy duty shippy glasses, I get lots of satisfaction from the Sam/Jack interactions we see here.

So I’m just going to go through every member of the team and tell you why I love them in this ep.

Daniel
I think we see two sides of Daniel here. A part of him is still trying to remember who he is and I see shades of the earlier sort of bumbling archeologist Daniel. For example, when Jack first communicates with him on the ship he’s rambling, imprecise, exasperating. He sounds a lot more like the Daniel of earlier years rather than the seasoned soldier he had become by the end of Season 5. On the other hand, he fights like a pro when he and Jonas ring into the warehouse where Sam and Teal’c are being held captive by Anubis’s Jaffa. It’s like the latent muscle memory taking over. He’s trying to consciously understand who he is while at the same time his subconscious just reacts because there’s a part of him that knows what needs to be done.

As to the rather quick recovery of Daniel’s memory, I really don’t mind it. I’m reminded of a close friend who had a sudden heart attack and was quite literally dead for a few minutes. When he first regained consciousness several days later he had almost completely lost his memory. (It was very scary.) After a few days everything came back to him rather quickly, except about a week before the attack. (Looking back on it now several years later it was really quite amazing. It was like he experienced a whole system reboot and gradually all the “back-up files” in his memory were recovered except those last seven days.) I think of Daniel’s memory loss as being something like this. He retook corporeal form, which had to be pretty traumatic and hard on his whole system especially his mind; so it took some time for everything but the last year as a non-corporeal being to reload if you will. For me it was very realistic, and story-wise I would have been bored by a long, drawn out process of Daniel recovering his memory.

Jonas
I’m probably going to be unpopular for saying this, but I think Jonas exit was well-done. I know some think it was like saying “don’t let the iris hit you on the way out.” But I thought it gave his character a complete and satisfying arc. I did like seeing Daniel and Jonas working together, but I couldn’t see both of them on the team and I can’t think of any scenario where I would be satisfied with Daniel on the show but not part of the team.

So when we first meet Jonas in Meridian he and Daniel do hit it off. Daniel is the experienced one, trying to help Jonas understand the bigger picture. Then Daniel heroically sacrifices himself to save Jonas (and many others). Now we see Jonas with Daniel again, and no surprise they make a great team. This time Jonas is back on (or above) Kelowna, and now experienced with the wider universe and ready to make the sacrifices necessary, first by jumping in front of a staff weapon to save Daniel and then leaving earth and SG1 to try and save his people from themselves and their petty squabbles.

I think it shows great growth and fits right in with Jonas character that he left immediately for Kelowna (now Langera?) instead of sticking around earth for any length of time. In Meridian, Jonas took a long time to get up the courage to stand up to his government and act for what was right. But since then, Jonas has become a man of action; he doesn’t hesitate to step in front of a staff weapon (compare that to his first mission in Descent) or to take up the position on the ruling council, even though that’s probably not what he wants personally. I feel like he’s incorporated the lessons and values he learned from his time and SG1 into his character. So his exit doesn’t feel rushed or forced to me. And I think he has a nice moment of farewell with each member of the team at the end.

I’ll miss Jonas. I really have come to like him and appreciate his character. But IMHO he is where he should be.

Teal’c
I really like Teal’c’s role in this episode. He formulates the strategy to take out Anubis and convinces Yu’s First Prime and Baal to follow his lead. He shows a keen understanding of human (or rather Jaffa/Goa’uld) nature by playing on their pride and arrogance. He also gets Hammond, Jack and the Langerans on board with the plan. I see strong echoes of his days as a leader and First Prime, and I like that. He is more than just the muscle. He has a lot of cunning and wisdom to contribute and he does so here. I can see why the causes he advocates (be they Apophis in his early years, or later the Tau’ri and now the rebel Jaffa movement) are so successful. He is a formidable opponent and a strong and wise ally. (And truthfully, I just love Teal’c to pieces.)


Sam
I love take charge Sam. She shows a lot of confidence and leadership here, and not just when Jack is there to back her up. When Jack is back at the SGC she’s still in command of the situation, ordering the ambassador and commander to get her a list of the museum exhibit, pushing them to help her figure out what Anubis is up to. This is the Sam I wanted to see so much more of in Season 8 and beyond.

To Be Continued . . .

[hlndncr]

Wow, the first time I've had to use two posts.

Did I mention I really love this episode!

Homecoming Continued

Jack
Jack is brilliant here as leader, diplomat, and tactician. He shows a lot of confidence in his team and lets them take the lead where appropriate. For example, he has Teal’c present his plan to the Langerans. OK, so he doesn’t like the plan very much so it was good he didn’t try to sell it, but he still knew Teal’c understood the plan best and was in a position to be more convincing. That’s good leadership.

He deals really well with the ambassadors from the various planetary factions, and we can see him holding back his temper (and disdain) when dealing with them. I love when he is clearly exasperated and lightening the mood by bringing up the story of the dancing monkeys doesn’t work so he hands it over to Carter. Showing that he knows his limits and he knows why he has a 2IC who also recognizes the limits of his patience.

He also doesn’t hide his smarts when he suggest to Hammond ways to get around the regulations to bring in more SG teams for back-up as “technical advisors.” And when confronted about the small number of troops he basically tells them they can handle the hundreds of Jaffa in the city if Anubis’s ship can be taken out. He rightly has complete confidence in his tactical superiority over the hapless Jaffa when left leaderless.

GO TEAM
I just have to say; separately or together they are amazing. When Jonas and Daniel ring into the warehouse the whole team acts together perfectly to take out the Jaffa patrol in about 5 seconds. When they are held captive in the bunker and a tremor offers an opening, there is no hesitation. Each on just acts knowing they can count on the other’s to do their part. Teal’c goes for a staff, Jack grabs a P90, Sam goes after the crystal. Jonas and Daniel watch each other’s backs. It’s brilliant!

Sam and Jack
I personally find this episode oh so shippy. Maybe it is because Sam and Jack are together for most of the episode, not just visually together but on a whole shared wavelength, completely in tune with each other, together.

I like that they had fun blowing up Anubis’s super weapon together in the previous episode, but when Jack and Sam return to the SGC things quickly turn more serious. They have no idea where the rest of their team is and Jack is more subdued than usual in some of his snarkiness. You can tell by his words and posture that he is worried about his team being at the mercy of various Goa’uld where he can’t find them and can do nothing to help them. A reminder of his own experience with Baal I think. The looks and closeness between him and Sam and that briefing room scene are a sign of the silent support she is trying to give him and he is drawing from her.

I see it again when Teal’c comes to share his plan to have Baal take charge of the System Lord fleet. You can tell that just the very mention of Baal makes Jack uncomfortable and he’s doing his best to hide it. He looks over at Sam and it is like she senses his need for her from across the room and she turns to him. He continues to look over to her for support, and she keeps watching him out of concern. It’s very subtle, but one of my favorite moments between them.

Then there is just so much silent communication—whole conversations in mere glances. Like where they agree to offer the Kelownans assistance if they will fight Anubis.

It is so far beyond a professional bond. The connection between them is almost tangible and electric.

[hlndncr]

FAB analysis! I completely agree about the snarky scene--although it's never bothered me at all. I always took that particular exchange as a sign that they are so VERY comfortable with each other. And beyond that, comfortable with everyone knowing that they're comfortable with each other.

Triple post. I'm so bad.

I love the briefing room scene. It really is the fact that they are acting that way in front of not just each other, or their team, or even Hammond. They've got Tok'ra and other departments and higher ups all witnessing this almost intimate and personal sort of razzing. I mean look at their faces:

This is not hostility; this is FLIRTING! Like Josi said, when Jonas and Daniel look at each other at the end of that whole exchange it's like they're thinking, "Just get a room already!"

[Akamaimom]

[IMG]http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af243/hlndncr/Every%20Sam%20and%20Jack%20Shippy%20Moment%20Ever/PDVD_130-2.jpg[/URL]

It is so far beyond a professional bond. The connection between them is almost tangible and electric.

Great review!

I agree. Jonas wanted to go back to his planet--he made no bones about that. I don't think he'd have been happy on Earth forever, and I think he'd have regretted not going back to help his people.

And the Jack/Sam bits were really nice--again, as I said about the last review, they're so comfortable with each other at this point that they don't mind being comfortable with each other--if that makes any sense. Like when you finally get to the point with a boyfriend that you don't mind kissing him in front of your parents.

And I just have to give that last pic a caption.

Spoiler:

"Sir did you just pinch--"

"What? Me? Do that? What are you talkin'--NO!"

"Mm-hmm."

"I didn't."

"Then who did?"

Long, long pause.

"It was just so--there--begging to be pinched."

"Begging?"

"Yes. Begging."

"Oh. Okay."

She goes back to work.

"Sir?"

"Yeah, Carter."

"I think it's begging again."

[Cagranosalis]

Aka. Yeah!

Another fantastic review hlndncr. I'm going to combine comments from Josi and yours because...well, I don't really know why but hey, I've done so... Josi's first:

Not a lot of time is given to Daniel's mental recovery, really, which part of me wishes wasn't the case, but it is entirely in keeping with the way SG1 works in general - move the story forward, get to the action, and leave the navel-gazing largely off-screen - so I'm not going to complain about it too much. I do want to comment on the transition scene though, in the briefing room where Daniel effectively rejoins SG1 as we get the exposition for what is going to happen in the second part of the episode. At first, as Daniel arrives, he's very much the outsider - standing up, away from them all, with them all looknig at him. Then, when he makes his case and is allowed to stay, he takes the spare seat at the table, and suddenly Jonas is the outsider - he's the one standing up, and note that after Daniel wins their little argument about the correct translation of the Lost City on the tablet, the camera doesn't cut back to Jonas at all any more - all the focus is now on the 'old' SG1, including Daniel, as they continue the discussion. Very effectively Daniel has now symbolically pushed Jonas out of SG1, even though it takes him another episode or so to actually go. Part of me thinks it's a shame that Jonas was pushed out so quickly by Daniel, as as we see in this episode, the two of them do work pretty well together, and the element of slight competitiveness works well, I think, but I guess ultimately they're too similar in terms of skillsets, and one of them was always going to be the fifth wheel.

I don't mind the recovering thing myself either, for much the same reason stated. While I with more time had been given to him, I understand why episodic television in the style of SG-1 could not do this and, honestly, I'm OK with that. I mean, this is what fanfic is for, IMO.

And I also agree about his needing to go from SG-1 because his and Daniel's skills set was too similar. I do have a slight wish that they'd kept Jonas and not bought Daniel back... now and again. Not that I'm not grateful for Daniel's return but I wouldn't have been unhappy if Jonas had stayed. I really liked him, I like the changes in team dynamic he brought about and I think he could have at least hung about a bit as a recurring character. I do feel like we never really concluded his story in the end.


And, as I said, the briefing room scene is just wonderful. I never had a problem with the snark between them. I never really saw it as antagonistic at all. I had this feeling all the way through that Jack was giving it some knowing Sam would give it right back and, actually, part of him doing just so she would. It's very firty in an odd kind of way. Yeah, if I were in that room with them I'd be thinking "shall we all leave you two to it then?" redefining the concept of getting a room. Oh, huh, read on and hlndncr, just said that... great minds eh!
But I do love the fact he apologises to her and they're both completely comfortable with the whole thing and, oh so very unconcious of how flirty it actually is. And they don't know or care. I say again, anyone who thinks Hammond and half the rest of the SGC didn't have a clue is barking!



From hlndncr:

As to the rather quick recovery of Daniel’s memory, I really don’t mind it. I’m reminded of a close friend who had a sudden heart attack and was quite literally dead for a few minutes. When he first regained consciousness several days later he had almost completely lost his memory. (It was very scary.) After a few days everything came back to him rather quickly, except about a week before the attack. (Looking back on it now several years later it was really quite amazing. It was like he experienced a whole system reboot and gradually all the “back-up files” in his memory were recovered except those last seven days.) I think of Daniel’s memory loss as being something like this. He retook corporeal form, which had to be pretty traumatic and hard on his whole system especially his mind; so it took some time for everything but the last year as a non-corporeal being to reload if you will. For me it was very realistic, and story-wise I would have been bored by a long, drawn out process of Daniel recovering his memory.

Yes, although I wish more time had been dedicated to Daniel's reintergration to SG-1, I don't have a problem with how quickly he recovered his memories. Again, episodic television of this nature does not allow for long drawn out exposition so I'm happy to assume stuff happened off camera that supplements what we saw on screen.

I’m probably going to be unpopular for saying this, but I think Jonas exit was well-done. I know some think it was like saying “don’t let the iris hit you on the way out.” But I thought it gave his character a complete and satisfying arc. I did like seeing Daniel and Jonas working together, but I couldn’t see both of them on the team and I can’t think of any scenario where I would be satisfied with Daniel on the show but not part of the team.

<snipped for space>

While a part of me still wishes Jonas had stayed (again, not that I dislike Daniel but I'd grown to appreciate Jonas and what he did for the team dynamic and character growth of the others) I do think you make a valid point about his exit and why it makes sense at this point. It really had to be Daniel on the team if they'd both stayed at the SGC and I think, pushing Jonas out and having him stay at the SGC or perhaps working on another team might have been a: unfair to him and b: undermined the massive character development he'd gone through. Although I still would have liked for them to have developed the Kelowna/Langera connection more so we had an excuse to see how great Jonas was getting on more frequently. I know we did revisit him once in The Big Drilly Episode, we never really foud out how Langera got on after that, and whether they survived the Ori, what Jonas ended up doing... so much potential there that, unfortunately, could not be capitalised on.

[b]GO TEAM[.b]
I just have to say; separately or together they are amazing. When Jonas and Daniel ring into the warehouse the whole team acts together perfectly to take out the Jaffa patrol in about 5 seconds. When they are held captive in the bunker and a tremor offers an opening, there is no hesitation. Each on just acts knowing they can count on the other’s to do their part. Teal’c goes for a staff, Jack grabs a P90, Sam goes after the crystal. Jonas and Daniel watch each other’s backs. It’s brilliant!

Oh yeah! My fangurl moment of Homecoming right there. Such an amazing teamy episode - all of them.



hlndncr, I love your analysis of the Sam/Jack dynamic here too. Wondefully illustrated observations and I agree with all of them. Three posts huh? Wow you beat Josi at her own game!

[josiane]

Wow, hlndncr, awesome review! It was all really well thought out, but the shippy stuff in particular was really insightful - nice job

Daniel
I think we see two sides of Daniel here. A part of him is still trying to remember who he is and I see shades of the earlier sort of bumbling archeologist Daniel. For example, when Jack first communicates with him on the ship he’s rambling, imprecise, exasperating. He sounds a lot more like the Daniel of earlier years rather than the seasoned soldier he had become by the end of Season 5. On the other hand, he fights like a pro when he and Jonas ring into the warehouse where Sam and Teal’c are being held captive by Anubis’s Jaffa. It’s like the latent muscle memory taking over. He’s trying to consciously understand who he is while at the same time his subconscious just reacts because there’s a part of him that knows what needs to be done.

This is interesting in the light of the observations I made about a lot of the way Daniel comes back to the SGC echoing Daniel's first return back in CotG. It's like, as you say, we're getting both sides of him at once - the past Daniel and the present Daniel, all mixed up together because he's not entirely sure yet of who he is and how he needs to behave.

Jonas
I’m probably going to be unpopular for saying this, but I think Jonas exit was well-done. I know some think it was like saying “don’t let the iris hit you on the way out.” But I thought it gave his character a complete and satisfying arc. I did like seeing Daniel and Jonas working together, but I couldn’t see both of them on the team and I can’t think of any scenario where I would be satisfied with Daniel on the show but not part of the team.

So when we first meet Jonas in Meridian he and Daniel do hit it off. Daniel is the experienced one, trying to help Jonas understand the bigger picture. Then Daniel heroically sacrifices himself to save Jonas (and many others). Now we see Jonas with Daniel again, and no surprise they make a great team. This time Jonas is back on (or above) Kelowna, and now experienced with the wider universe and ready to make the sacrifices necessary, first by jumping in front of a staff weapon to save Daniel and then leaving earth and SG1 to try and save his people from themselves and their petty squabbles.

I think it shows great growth and fits right in with Jonas character that he left immediately for Kelowna (now Langera?) instead of sticking around earth for any length of time. In Meridian, Jonas took a long time to get up the courage to stand up to his government and act for what was right. But since then, Jonas has become a man of action; he doesn’t hesitate to step in front of a staff weapon (compare that to his first mission in Descent) or to take up the position on the ruling council, even though that’s probably not what he wants personally. I feel like he’s incorporated the lessons and values he learned from his time and SG1 into his character. So his exit doesn’t feel rushed or forced to me. And I think he has a nice moment of farewell with each member of the team at the end.

Really nice point! Love what you say there about the symmetry of Jonas's exit with the events of Meridian I agree with Cags, part of me would have been quite happy to have had Jonas stay and Daniel not come back, because I think Jonas was fab and it does feel a bit like he was just brushed off, but I also agree with you that they dealt with his exit well, once the exit was inevitable. It does seem quick, but again that's SG1, they just get on with things

And, as I said, the briefing room scene is just wonderful. I never had a problem with the snark between them. I never really saw it as antagonistic at all. I had this feeling all the way through that Jack was giving it some knowing Sam would give it right back and, actually, part of him doing just so she would. It's very firty in an odd kind of way. Yeah, if I were in that room with them I'd be thinking "shall we all leave you two to it then?" redefining the concept of getting a room. Oh, huh, read on and hlndncr, just said that... great minds eh!
But I do love the fact he apologises to her and they're both completely comfortable with the whole thing and, oh so very unconcious of how flirty it actually is. And they don't know or care. I say again, anyone who thinks Hammond and half the rest of the SGC didn't have a clue is barking!

Oh yes! And I do realise that my initial reaction to that scene is not the usual one - who knows why, but I do now see the flirtatiousness, in Sam and Jack's slightly twisted way, not any kind of emotional antagonism. But that's the great thing about discussing these things with other shippers, you get new perspectives and adjust your own sometimes when you hear how other people interpret things

[hlndncr]

S/J stuff

As we have been discussing at the end of season 6, Sam and Jack are in a very comfortable place at this stage in time, and that is borne out in their exchanges in this episode. There's quite a few nice little looks (eg, after Daniel calls Jack 'Jim', and in particular the one after Jack says 'Honesty is the best policy', where he's looking at Sam all pleased with himself, practically puffing out his feathers saying 'look how clever I am, aren't I clever, aren't I?', wanting her approval), and some lovely exchanges when they're up in the 302. This one in particular I love:
I want to see what this thing's made of.
I could tell you exactly, Sir (rather flirtatiously, with the 'Sir' almost as an afterthought)
Another time, maybe, please (rather strained )
I do so love the subtle implication in the tones of voice that it's not because of boredom or having a rather lot going on, but because of other effects that her technobabble might possibly have on him...

Now see I thought I had caught all the shippy implications in this episode and then you go and throw these out. That's why I love this thread! I can totally see Jack showing off for Sam. I'm going to have to go back and add that pic to my shippy moments list. And distracted by technobabble . . . hehe. I like the ship you think.