Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Petra]

Do you have a link to that fic?

Yep. You can find it here. I'm not linking directly because it's rated NC-17, even though it's not very graphic. Be warn though, author's take on Sam and Jack's issues isn't everyone's cup of tea.

There's a sequel of sorts, rated PG, that can be read as a stand-alone, and which deals with Sam moving into Jack's house, accepting command of the Hammond and dealing with Sara's presence in Jack's life, which I sort of adopted as my personal canon because it rings very true for me and very IC for Sam and Jack and their relationship.

Territorial

You and I have the same view on this subject, it appears

Cool.

Now that we are coming to the end of Season 6, any word on the Season 7 rewatch schedule?

Are we sure there is a Season 7 Rewatch? I thought there were problems with finding volunteers for writing the reviews?

[EvenstarSRV]

In my mind, in fact, they got married right away. I base this on my own personal experience. (I have many friends who met and married their spouse within 3 months and so it doesn't surprise or bother me when people marry first and date later. I also have two friends who waited 14 years to be together (very long story) and when things finally worked out they couldn't get married fast enough.) I also believe it was the best way to neutralize the frat reg issue permanently; and I don't see them taking a chance with that. And I actually think the broken engagement and Jacob's passing would have been more of a motivation for Jack and Sam to move forward quickly. I don't think she was devastated by her break up with Pete. In fact, I think she relieved that she didn't make such a big mistake. And I believe Sam knew Jacob would have aproved, based on her last conversation with him, and she would have seen once again that life is too short.

See, I personally have a hard time believing that. Sam had invested over a year's worth of time in her relationship with Pete, she came within a couple of weeks of getting married, and IMHO she did look, perhaps not devastated, but quite affected during the break up scene with Pete. I think even though she knew it was the right thing to do and that her father approved, she was still seeing the first long-term relationship that she'd had since Hanson come to an end. That had to have affected her deeply, IMHO.

But I admit the timeline still has me a bit confused. In Avalon we are told that Sam took command of Area 51 R&D a week before, and it seems to me that Jack was at Homeworld Security/Command longer than a week because Landry has settled in at the SGC and Jack's already got his house, etc. sold; so he seems pretty settled into his new position too. So I'm not sure when or how Sam was ever out of Jack's chain of command. No one's presented me with a scenario that feels quite right. So I'm open to other points of view.

The timeline between S8 and 9 is all kinds of wonky. IIRC, in the opening of Avalon they said that the battle in Antarctica took place 2 years ago, but if they go by 1 season= 1 year, it should have been just over a year ago. So either S8 took place over 2 years, or almost a year passed between Moebius and Avalon.

I completely agree. I admit I have a soft spot for the fics in which they get together at the cabin, but realistically I don't think it happened that way for the reasons you stated. Additionally I think that there would have been concern that Jack took advantage of her fragile emotional state or at least emotional confusion, and that's another reason for them to wait a bit longer, untill Sam sorts out her feelings and regains equilibrium.

That's the main reason why I don't see them getting together soon after Threads. I think them starting a relationship when Sam is in such a fragile state would start it on uneven ground to me, I don't see either of them wanting to do that. I see Jack riding a line during that time between being there for her like he promised but also giving her space to grieve on her own or in her own way. That said, I think once Sam was ready and they did start a relationship, it would progress fairly quickly since they do have 8+ years of shared experiences and friendship to support them.

[hlndncr]

Are we sure there is a Season 7 Rewatch? I thought there were problems with finding volunteers for writing the reviews?

I don't know. I hadn't heard that. It is a busy time of year.

Even if we put it on hold for a while I really hope we will come back to it. I am enjoying the rewatch and related discussions very much. Everyone sees these episodes so differently and people are always pointing out things I haven't noticed before.

[Akamaimom]

I'm willing to try writing a review--although I don't know how good I'd be. . .

[hedwig]

I'm willing to try writing a review--although I don't know how good I'd be. . .

Anybody that can write as well as you do can write a good review. So there!

[Akamaimom]

Anybody that can write as well as you do can write a good review. So there!

Now you're just sucking up. (Please stop. No--please. No more. Really--you don't have to--Okay. )

It's not the actual writing part--it's seeing all the important parts of the episode. But hey--I'll give it a shot!

[hedwig]

Now you're just sucking up. (Please stop. No--please. No more. Really--you don't have to--Okay. )

It's not the actual writing part--it's seeing all the important parts of the episode. But hey--I'll give it a shot!

Drat! Was it that obvious??? But I really, sincerely, honestly, cross my heart, meant it.

[Akamaimom]

Drat! Was it that obvious??? But I really, sincerely, honestly, cross my heart, meant it.

I've sent my PM to the one "In Charge". We'll see what happens.

[hlndncr]

It's not the actual writing part--it's seeing all the important parts of the episode. But hey--I'll give it a shot!

The review is just meant to get the discussion started. It's a jumping off point. So you don't have to find or point out every little thing. Part of the fun is learning what other people see.

[Akamaimom]

The review is just meant to get the discussion started. It's a jumping off point. So you don't have to find or point out every little thing. Part of the fun is learning what other people see.

I'm in, if I'm wanted. We'll see what happens.

[Cagranosalis]

Now that we are coming to the end of Season 6, any word on the Season 7 rewatch schedule?

Oh sorry, that'll be me. I was struggling to make up the numbers so dithering about delaying it until perhaps new year but I think, if I can recuit just one or two more, we can do this without me needing to clone myself.
I was going to PM all those already volunteered to consult tonight but got caught up doing forum duties elsewhere.

I will (hopefully) have something out in the next day or two to you all.

I've sent my PM to the one "In Charge". We'll see what happens.

*snort*

Well, I wouldn't put it quite that way. Little Miss Organised maybe. And you think Sam is slightly odd for her alphabetised bookcase? Uh, yeah, that'll be me too.

I'm in, if I'm wanted. We'll see what happens.

Very much wanted. Thank you. I've PM'd you.

Just quickly to anyone else, if you want to do a rewatch review, please PM me, indicating any episode preferences/avoidances you have, and any dates you want to avoid.
All going to plan we will start 4th Oct and finish 2nd December.

Oh and, I was supposed to post Full Circle tonight but, uh, see above about forum duties elsewhere. being as you're having such a fab discussion anyway, and how we've got a little break anyway (and it's half past one in the morning for me now), I'll do it in the next 24 hours.

[Nynaeve506]

Jumping in with my own thoughts:

S/J timeline: In my canon they got together post-Threads fairly quickly. Like others, I agree with the quick marriage to a) deal with the regs issue (and thus force the AF to deal with it because they can't circumvent the marriage vows) and b) BECAUSE Sam had two screwed up engagements and Jack had a failed marriage (I know counter-intuitive...)

I've always thought of Sam as being a very determined person and that if life brought her two engagements that ended without the altar, she would basically stare Life right in the eyes and say "Just try me...one...more...time" and then promptly marry Jack so fast everyone's heads spun.

As for Jack - his marriage didn't end because it was a bad marriage. I get the distinct impression that if Charlie hadn't died, they would still be together. People who TEND to struggle with marriage after a divorce TEND to be those who have had bad marriages. I think Jack very much enjoyed the institution of marriage. He's the kind of guy who likes what he likes, loves what he loves, and would eat the same thing everyday until he decided to get exciting and try salt on his eggs (or if he hasn't had his coffee...ketchup...).

As for Sam and her relationship with Pete...I don't think it devastated her. I think what really got to her was that she'd spent so much time not being herself (there's a tendency to blame Pete, but I disagree. I think she molds herself to whatever person she's around - a very, very common characteristic of a military brat because you have to learn the ropes and try has hard as possible to fit in - the result is a lack of identity, which I think Sam struggled with for most of the first eight seasons).

She thought she wanted a white picket fence with a house and 2.5 kids. She also thought she wanted to be a kick-ass soldier with a P-90 and enough brains that the rest of the world wouldn't need any. She thought she had to make her father proud. She thought she had to fit the mold everyone else told her.

Then one day, as her father lay on his deathbed, in a way that only a father can release his daughter, he told her to be happy.

And that wasn't Pete. Or the house. Or the dog. Or a kitchen she could paint.

It was accepting that her life was unconventional. That she was unconventional. That the best love story of her life didn't fit in a box. That she could still have everything she wanted.

In my world they agreed they wouldn't violate the regs, but they both finally let go of the rigidity they'd been clinging to because of their individual issues. It was okay to finally be together the way they both wanted even if it meant transfers and paperwork were weeks away.

You only get to live life once and they'd face death so many times, I just can't believe they would wait until every "t" was crossed when it was as good as done anyway. They were probably incredibly discreet (and still are). It was never the regs that held them back anyway. The regs were what Sam and Jack hid behind (they still respect them, don't get me wrong, but they could have changed things a long, long time ago).

And they lived happily ever after...in two states...sometimes in two galaxies...both complaining about the dry-cleaning bill on their service dress as they go fishing in Minnesota...

[Akamaimom]

Jumping in with my own thoughts:

S/J timeline: In my canon they got together post-Threads fairly quickly. Like others, I agree with the quick marriage to a) deal with the regs issue (and thus force the AF to deal with it because they can't circumvent the marriage vows) and b) BECAUSE Sam had two screwed up engagements and Jack had a failed marriage (I know counter-intuitive...)

I've always thought of Sam as being a very determined person and that if life brought her two engagements that ended without the altar, she would basically stare Life right in the eyes and say "Just try me...one...more...time" and then promptly marry Jack so fast everyone's heads spun.

As for Jack - his marriage didn't end because it was a bad marriage. I get the distinct impression that if Charlie hadn't died, they would still be together. People who TEND to struggle with marriage after a divorce TEND to be those who have had bad marriages. I think Jack very much enjoyed the institution of marriage. He's the kind of guy who likes what he likes, loves what he loves, and would eat the same thing everyday until he decided to get exciting and try salt on his eggs (or if he hasn't had his coffee...ketchup...).

As for Sam and her relationship with Pete...I don't think it devastated her. I think what really got to her was that she'd spent so much time not being herself (there's a tendency to blame Pete, but I disagree. I think she molds herself to whatever person she's around - a very, very common characteristic of a military brat because you have to learn the ropes and try has hard as possible to fit in - the result is a lack of identity, which I think Sam struggled with for most of the first eight seasons).

She thought she wanted a white picket fence with a house and 2.5 kids. She also thought she wanted to be a kick-ass soldier with a P-90 and enough brains that the rest of the world wouldn't need any. She thought she had to make her father proud. She thought she had to fit the mold everyone else told her.

Then one day, as her father lay on his deathbed, in a way that only a father can release his daughter, he told her to be happy.

And that wasn't Pete. Or the house. Or the dog. Or a kitchen she could paint.

It was accepting that her life was unconventional. That she was unconventional. That the best love story of her life didn't fit in a box. That she could still have everything she wanted.

In my world they agreed they wouldn't violate the regs, but they both finally let go of the rigidity they'd been clinging to because of their individual issues. It was okay to finally be together the way they both wanted even if it meant transfers and paperwork were weeks away.

You only get to live life once and they'd face death so many times, I just can't believe they would wait until every "t" was crossed when it was as good as done anyway. They were probably incredibly discreet (and still are). It was never the regs that held them back anyway. The regs were what Sam and Jack hid behind (they still respect them, don't get me wrong, but they could have changed things a long, long time ago).

And they lived happily ever after...in two states...sometimes in two galaxies...both complaining about the dry-cleaning bill on their service dress as they go fishing in Minnesota...

Yep. This.

[Cagranosalis]

Banner by Eve

Synopsis

Glowy!Daniel pays Jack an elevator-side visit to warn him that Anubis is about to raid Abydos in search of an artefact call the Eye of Ra. Apparently, this forms the final part of a Very Powerful Weapon that would tip the balance of power in the Goa’uld hierarchy firmly in his favour. SG-1 return to Abydos, Skarra has a rather obvious “red shirt” moment where he regales Jack with news of his upcoming nuptials (presumably to a: make his soon-to-be demise all that much more poignant and b: give us that cute awkward Sam/Jack moment ) and then Anubis attacks. The rest of the episode involves things being shot at, blown up and generally (and rather gleefully if the director’s series special feature is anything to go by) destroyed. Oh and there’s some overdressed bad guys and some be-robed folks, showing their allegiances by choosing the appropriate colour to wear... and some more glowing and, er, some spanking people rosy. Since we don’t see the last bit, I have to assume that happened off camera after they got home, although judging by the expressions on Teal’c’s and Sam’s faces, all bets are off as to which one was doing the spanking. I imagine Jack enjoyed it though (plot bunny anyone? )
Where was I? Oh yeah Glowy!Daniel (who has usefully chosen the light coloured robes so you just know he’s the Good Guy) oversteps the “non interference” line, promises Anubis the Eye Of Ra in return for him not blowing up Abydos. You’d think, after six years, Daniel would have the sense not to trust a snakehead? Nah he trusts him, delivers the Eye of Ra (and thus the power to blow just about everything up) to which Anubis promptly reneges on his deal and... blows up Abydos. Admittedly, Daniel does grow a set of Ascended Balls at this point and tries to stop him but Oma Desalsa is having none of that and whisks him away. We next see him naked in a field with no memory of the last year so I think it worth pointing out that those Ascended beings must throw one heck of as party and I’d like an invite to the next one, please!
What else? Oh, as it happens that whole Eye of Ra thing? Pshaw! Who needs that when you’d got this tablet that speaks of a Lost City of the Ancients where we will find the means to defend the planet from even Mr OTT-even-by-Goa’uld-standards.


Favourite scene
Just about every scene in this is a winner, to be honest, but there’s some absolutely wonderful 360degree (and more) camera pans, and long clever travelling shots that are Martin Wood specials. If I have to pick one, the moment when Daniel first appears to SG-1 on Abydos. Count how many times that camera goes round Jack. Awesome!

Favourite Line

Jack: ” Well spank me rosy” because it’s such an obvious ad lib and it also obviously makes them all smile (although they try hard to hide it) and because they kept it in despite that.

Review
Firstly, may I start by saying this is one of those episodes that’s very much enhanced by listening to the commentary. You get a real sense of the scope of what these people achieve with so little. I’m in awe. And yes, blatantly fangurling the production crew but it needs to be said.
Ok... despite my rather flippant synopsis, I absolutely adore this episode. It’s just nonstop actiony, teamy goodness. It feels right. I don’t know if that makes sense.
I went through a phase of not much liking the episode, mainly because I knew it was written and shot as a series ender and, as one, it feels a bit unsatisfying, but, y’know, I got over myself; it’s NOT a series ender, it’s a season ender and, it may not be a huge cliffhanger, but it’s a satisfying conclusion to that season, with enough unanswered questions to keep us wanting to come back for more next year. With that firmly in mind, I struggle to find fault with it.
One thing I do love about it is how it switches from quite light hearted at the start to, really, quite serious and dark stuff by the end. I mean, think of it, we start with that lovely Jack/Daniel banter in the elevator but, by the end, everyone on Abydos is dead/ascended and the planet’s been blown up and Anubis is an unstoppable threat in the galaxy. Dark stuff.

If I must nitpick... the whole business with the Eye of Ra thing felt a bit thrust upon us. I mean, when you think back (uh, ok forward) to season 7, and how big a build up the Lost City was, it does seem like there was this thing they plucked to suddenly up the threat of Anubis (who, face it, up to that point, had been a bit of an nuisance but not much more). Ok, not much of a nit but there you go. I’ll also say, in general, I didn’t much like Anubis as a bad guy. I don’t know why but, he just never really scared me much. Perhaps he wasn’t camp enough, or personal enough, I don’t know.

I also love Sam doing her soldier thing with the gun and blowing away the secret compartment. I have to say, Amanda Tapping looks just awesome in this episode all the way through.

Sam and Jack
Well aside from the obvious “wedding invite” moment, which I’ll get to in a minute, there’s a lot of that companionable vibe from them all the way through. There’s a point in one of the briefings where Sam looks at Jack a little bit annoyed by what he said (something a bit flippant) but annoyed in a “I can’t take you anywhere” kind of way. It shouts Couply to me. Right in front of Hammond too... blimey he must have known!
I love the fact that just about every scene they’re in together, Sam spends a good proportion of it looking at Jack and, as above, she gives him such wonderful looks too. And she stands mighty close to him at times. No sense of personal space, oh no. There’s a really nice interplay between them throughout.

The wedding invite; ah the source of much speculation. Did Sam and Skarra conspire there? Oh doesn’t it look like it! Actually, right before that, Jack makes a point of clarifying that his role would be as “best man” (or what passes for it on Abydos) since, I assume, he’s a little worried that they might have *cough* different customs to Western Earth society. So I think, when he questions what role Sam would be accompanying him to the wedding as, he’s just kind of y’know, checking he’s not required to do anything naughty with her... although I don’t think he’d mind... all in the name of advancing relationships with alien cultures and all that.
I just love the slightly awkward reaction of his, and then Sam’s reaction to that too. She’s a little bit thrilled that the thought even crossed his mind. No wonder she spends most of the rest of the episode checking him out!

[Akamaimom]

Awesome review! One of the best I've read, because I giggled uproariously all the way through. . .

And I agree with it all. (Although I don't think that the wedding invite was coordinated.)

And Sam totally looks awesome in this ep, as does Jack. Which begs the question--HOW DID THEY WAIT AN ENTIRE TWO MORE SEASONS???????

Whimper over.

Good job, Cags!