Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[hedwig]

It made sense I think it is significant that he doesn't touch her with his hand too, and it's kind of his one thing he keeps back, showing a certain hesitancy about whether he should be doing it at all. I wouldn't contrast it to Fire & Water so much myself though, as that was both a long time ago and also such a reaction - neither of them thought, Sam was just hit with the trauma and I don't think Jack thought twice before throwing his arms round her. A better comparison I think would be to the hug in Heroes, which he does full-on commit to (even to the point of the neck nuzzle ). I think he allowed himself there because she came to him, specifically, and because they were alone, there was no danger and no-one to see and it was like they could have that moment without having to justify it to themselves or potentially anyone else either.

I think he could just as easily have allowed himself a bit more of a comforting hug in Death Knell, since only Teal'c was there, and Jack should have known without a doubt that Teal'c would not say anything to anyone. After all, Teal'c was there in Metamorphosis when Sam leaned against Jack; he'd been there in both Paradise Lost and Grace to see how both Jack and Sam felt about the other's disappearance. So there was no excuse for Jack to not have given Sam a bit more of a supportive hug at this point. In a sense, having Teal'c there is like having no one at all to observe a hug between them. I also just don't find "fear" as being important enough to not offer a bit more comfort to a "friend" at this particular time. And I don't count the fact that Sam was "dating" Pete as an excuse, since that had only been going on for about a week by that time, and in my mind just didn't count at all.

[josiane]

I think he could just as easily have allowed himself a bit more of a comforting hug in Death Knell, since only Teal'c was there, and Jack should have known without a doubt that Teal'c would not say anything to anyone. After all, Teal'c was there in Metamorphosis when Sam leaned against Jack; he'd been there in both Paradise Lost and Grace to see how both Jack and Sam felt about the other's disappearance. So there was no excuse for Jack to not have given Sam a bit more of a supportive hug at this point. In a sense, having Teal'c there is like having no one at all to observe a hug between them. I also just don't find "fear" as being important enough to not offer a bit more comfort to a "friend" at this particular time. And I don't count the fact that Sam was "dating" Pete as an excuse, since that had only been going on for about a week by that time, and in my mind just didn't count at all.

I think though it's not just about how Jack felt, but how Sam did too. She came to him for comfort in Heroes; she didn't in Death Knell. And she was exhausted and in the field, so I don't think either of them would have felt it appropriate to hug properly at that point. Any big hug would only have happened back at the SGC, I think, regardless of any of the other possible reasons.

[hedwig]

I think though it's not just about how Jack felt, but how Sam did too. She came to him for comfort in Heroes; she didn't in Death Knell. And she was exhausted and in the field, so I don't think either of them would have felt it appropriate to hug properly at that point. Any big hug would only have happened back at the SGC, I think, regardless of any of the other possible reasons.

I understand what you are saying, but I wasn't talking about a big hug. I understood the discussion to be talking about Jack thinking that even putting his arm across her shoulders was more than he should have been doing, because of his own fear that somebody could see it and think less of him somehow or think he was doing something wrong. My observation was that with Teal'c there, it didn't matter, since Teal'c wasn't going to say anything to anybody; he hasn't in the past, so he wouldn't in this case either. And while, yes, Sam was exhausted, weak and injured, I honestly don't think she would have minded his being a little more supportive than what he did do, as in perhaps putting his arm around her and maybe just giving a little squeeze in reassurance that she was safe. This is all just my own opinion toward the whole thing, and I realize that not many other people appear to have this opinion.

[EvenstarSRV]

I understand what you are saying, but I wasn't talking about a big hug. I understood the discussion to be talking about Jack thinking that even putting his arm across her shoulders was more than he should have been doing, because of his own fear that somebody could see it and think less of him somehow or think he was doing something wrong. My observation was that with Teal'c there, it didn't matter, since Teal'c wasn't going to say anything to anybody; he hasn't in the past, so he wouldn't in this case either. And while, yes, Sam was exhausted, weak and injured, I honestly don't think she would have minded his being a little more supportive than what he did do, as in perhaps putting his arm around her and maybe just giving a little squeeze in reassurance that she was safe. This is all just my own opinion toward the whole thing, and I realize that not many other people appear to have this opinion.

Just thought it was worth pointing out that Jack does give Sam's shoulder a squeeze in that scene. You can see it at the beginning of the crane shot right after that two-shot of Jack and Sam sitting against the rocks.

[Cagranosalis]

Just thought it was worth pointing out that Jack does give Sam's shoulder a squeeze in that scene. You can see it at the beginning of the crane shot right after that two-shot of Jack and Sam sitting against the rocks.

I was going to say that too. Plus, I've always been of the opinion that a lot of these scenes end before the end, so to speak. For instance here we don't see how long or how far that arm-over-the-shoulder hug goes. For all we know (and I guess it's one of those things shippers can bring their own interpretation to which is something I, for one, love about this ship)he could pull her in for a full on body hug right after the camera pans away. Or she could have put an arm around him, or started crying or passed out, or broken out in hives.

But yes, hedwig, I see what you're saying and agree to an extent. I don't think she's have minded but - assuming what we saw was the extent of what actually happened there - I actually think Jack really struggled with that even before he put his arm there. You can see him summing it up in his head, as if he wants to do it as it's the natural and normal thing for him to do... but he knows he can't. I don't think he's worried so much about how Sam will take it as how much of it he can cope with. Whether he can do this and it not hurt him or mean more to him that just a hug for an injured comrade (which for all intents and purposes is what it appears to be and it's ony if you know how they feel about each other that you see the deeper meaning / struggle.) I mean it's got to hurt a bit; giving the woman you love a hug, knowing she's with someone else and even if she's not she can never be yours... oh get me and my angst again. In the end he does it because it's what she needs but she also needs to know that he's doign that as a supportive and concerned comrade and not because he loves her. The irony there is, if he's showed her he still loves her a bit more often she might not have concluded he no longer cared.

*smacks Jack with wet kipper*

[Pol]

Perhaps he was just concerned she may explode at any moment..........

O.M.G.

You made me spit tea all over my laptop!!!

ROTFL. I know, it's sick, but your comment hit me just the right way. *still snickering*

[hlndncr]

I have very little to add to the excellent discussion on Metamorphosis, and yet that never seems to stop me. Hahaha!

So one of the things I really like about this episode is the way Jonas takes it to Nertti. I love that he isn't even phased as she comes on to him and he so calmly and coolly tells her he would destroy her if he could. I think this scene shows that he's not the wet-behind-the-ears rookie anymore. He can hold his own.

I also love the shippiness. Jack is absolutely hovering over Sam and we never see that. If you watch the background you get glimpses of it:

As I've been reading your wonderful discussion, I've been thinking about why Jack doesn't put his arm around Sam when she leans onto his shoulder. One thing that came to mind is that Sam doesn't usually take comfort from Jack without some kind of permission. What I mean is that she will at times seek him out, like in Heroes, but he has to give the password if you will ("C'mere"), before she will go to him. Occasionally, he simply takes her in his arms because of a pressing need like in Fire and Water or Into the Fire, but in both cases, he initiated the contact. The only time I can think of that Sam took the initiative was in BtS, and in that case she wasn't really acting like herself with Jack (and vice versa).

So this was a bold move for Sam. And it certainly demonstrates her trust in Teal'c because I don't think she would have done that if anyone else, even Jonas were there. (Maybe Daniel, if he weren't currently glowy.)

To me Jack's reaction demonstrates some surprise and a lot of worry. These two never let their guard down with one another unless death appears to be imminent. I think that left him somewhat paralized. I also think he didn't want to move and have her think that he didn't want her there or perhaps scare her into pulling back. And he did tell her to get some rest; so I like to think he was being sweet by not disturbing her and just letting her rest on him (short-lived as it was).

[Lucycat]

I remember when I first saw this episode, I was very surprised when Sam put her head on Jack's shoulder when he told her to get some rest. I'm sure his shoulder is a very comfy pillow, but I didn't think Sam would cross such a line unless she really thought she was dying (which she was!) And I think, by the way Jack kinda froze up a little bit, he was surprised, too!!

As hlndcr said, he didn't want to move to scare her off, and I think he was taken aback by the bold move on Sam's part. If the scene lasted longer, perhaps he would have put the arm around her for comfort, but it was ended too quickly!

[hlndncr]

Banner by Me

Summary(From GW episode guide)
A small group of foreign dignataries have arrived at the Pentagon, where they gather in a small conference room for a top-secret discussion. . . . General George Hammond and Major Paul Davis arrive to represent the United States, and to make full disclosure of the existence of the Stargate program. . . . The ambassadors are dumbfounded, and find the entire story quite hard to believe.

But U.S. Senator Kinsey soon arrives to join the meeting, and insists that it is all true -- though he himself has been opposed to the program in the past. The reason for the briefing is simple: despite SG-1's thwarting of several alien attacks on Earth, the planet is now threatened by Anubis, the most powerful foe we have faced yet. The five nations represented at the meeting make up the bulk of Earth's military capabilities, and only a coordinated, world-wide military effort could hope to stand up against another Goa'uld invasion.

As the ambassadors begin to accept the veracity of the claims of the United States and Russia (which has known about the program for nearly three years), a new problem emerges: the Chinese ambassador is unconvinced that the Stargate should remain a secret. . . . The ambassadors also strongly object to the fact that the program is operated by the United States military, which has been reaping the benefits of alien technology acquired by gate travel.

. . .
To resolve the conflict, Senator Kinsey plays his hand and makes a shocking proposal. He suggests that control of the program be turned over to a civilian organization that is already charged with oversight of alien technologies: the N.I.D. Hammond objects, stating that the N.I.D.'s bad track record (and rogue arm only recently shut down) speaks for itself. . . .

During [a] break, Major Davis makes a few phone calls and learns the reason for Kinsey's play: he's recently had himself transferred from appropriations to intelligence oversight, giving him direct authority over the N.I.D. But as the ambassadors consider Kinsey's proposal, General Hammond plays the ace up his sleeve.

Supreme Commander Thor of the Asgard arrives in a flash, and the ambassadors are stunned to see a real alien sitting amongst them. . . . Thor tells the ambassadors that, though their continued relations are not contingent upon it, it is "highly preferred" that General Hammond and his team at the SGC continue to operate the Stargate program. And when Senator Kinsey tries to object to Thor, the Asgard quickly puts him in his place. It's enough to convince the gathered dignitaries to support the S.G.C.

Generally
SG1 did five clip shows in its ten year run (Politics, Out of Mind, Disclosure, Inauguration, Citizen Joe), and of all of them, this is the one I like the least. Generally speaking SG1 does a really good job of providing an interesting envelope for this type of show. The clips tend to weave into the storyline and the “action” and quite often important events do occur in these episodes that have an impact on later episodes and seasons. In this case we see the seeds being planted for the future creation of the IOA, which comes to play a large part in Stargate mythology in all three series.

First let me say what I do like about the episode:

I love Collin Cunningham. I think he’s a cutie and anytime we get to see him is alright by me. I think we also see how Major Davis has really become an advocate for the SGC at the Pentagon. He’s no Samuels. He is one of the good guys; which is rare for a character written to be the Washington bureaucrat type.

We get a nice cameo of Michael Shanks as the voice of Thor, and I just love it when Thor gives Kinsey “the finger,” in a manner of speaking.

All the other guest stars do an admirable job with what they were given. Chekhov has developed into much more of an ally since we last saw him in Descent (despite the fact that another Russian officer just died on an SG1 mission). Kinsey is Kinsey. And we get to see a little of the adept political operative General Hammond really is; something we got a tantalizing taste of in Touchstone but with no real follow up.

What I don’t like about this episode:

For me it mostly comes down to the fact that I just don’t find it that interesting. As I said before, SG1 has a good track record for making clip shows more than the 80s sitcom variety of the Keatons sitting on their couch reminiscing. But this one comes closest to that model. It is after all a briefing on the Stargate program; so it is all the actors sitting around a table, in a very bland grey room somewhere in the Pentagon, discussing the past six years.

Kinsey trying to have his way just feels like a poor remake of Politics, which I liked (and I don’t even have RDA to stare at!). And I’m not going into all the reasons why this scenario is soooo ridiculous from my perspective as a professional political operative, but I admit it bugs me. (I can’t watch lawyer shows either.)

The clips are mostly action beats and effects shots. They look cool, but for me that’s my least favorite part of the show. I love the characters, and while this episode will give you a quick (and not particularly detailed) summary of the show, for me it misses what the show is really about—MY TEAM (and The Ship of course). We see very little of the main cast even in the clips, and obviously none are a part of the envelope.

Sam and Jack
We get a clip of this scene from Exodus, where Sam blows up a sun (which is in our Every Shippy Moment List):

And I know I’m stretching here, but I’m going to go out on a limb and say that this episode adds a little support to the notion that Jack and Sam really can’t be together right now because they are needed on SG1. Obviously Jack’s relationship with Thor is highlighted (To Kinsey: O'Neill suggested I send you to a distant planet for your actions here but I am reasonably certain his statement was in jest.) It can’t be overlooked as an important factor in the Asgard’s support and protection of earth, and with Anubis on the rise, we need all the help we can get.

Sam’s skills are also noted in that clip from Exodus.

So while neither one of them are indispensible, they are not wrong to believe that their decision to try and put their feelings for one another aside and focus on their work protecting earth is necessary and right at this time. It may be an excuse they are using to hide from other hurts and fears, but it is an excuse that does have some validity.

I now return you to your much more interesting discussion of Metamorphosis.

[Rachel500]

Disclosure

Generally

I agree that this is probably my least favourite of the clip shows simply because the clips seem a little disjointed from the discussion and the whole thing doesn't flow very well.

The main highlight is Thor showing up and humiliating Kinsey, allowing Hammond the political victory.

Yep, it sets up the beginnings of the IOA and I think that's about it's only value.

Sam and Jack

Well, it's a clip show so nothing new. While I agree the clips do serve to show that SG1 as a unit was given particular importance in the presentation both to the mission and their allies, I'm not sure I would extrapolate that as far as giving any additional validity to Sam and Jack's decision to stay on SG1 because of the mission beyond what was there before that yes, both their adherence to duty and the mission is valid as a stand alone reason without regard for their deeper issues but when taken with their deeper issues is for me rather just a convenient excuse to avoid dealing. Both could still have served the mission, been around for their allies, and been together if it hadn't been for their other issues (and if you assume that they are together since S8 then clearly that it is what happened).

[hlndncr]

[B]Sam and Jack

Well, it's a clip show so nothing new. While I agree the clips do serve to show that SG1 as a unit was given particular importance in the presentation both to the mission and their allies, I'm not sure I would extrapolate that as far as giving any additional validity to Sam and Jack's decision to stay on SG1 because of the mission beyond what was there before that yes, both their adherence to duty and the mission is valid as a stand alone reason without regard for their deeper issues but when taken with their deeper issues is for me rather just a convenient excuse to avoid dealing. Both could still have served the mission, been around for their allies, and been together if it hadn't been for their other issues (and if you assume that they are together since S8 then clearly that it is what happened).

Well I did say I was stretching and it only added a little support to that notion. But maybe it also gives us a window into the pressure they may have been under not to rock the boat. Not overt pressure mind you, but they must have felt the weight of all these expectations on them.

And saying all was well after S8 is just 20/20 hindsight. They didn't know that in S6. And the situation and enemy was very different in S9 & S10. Jack would have felt less responsible. (It was Daniel's fault. ) He also didn't manage to ever fully retire; so he did hang on to some of the mindset that his skills and experience were too valuable for him to walk away. Sam was pulled back in to SG1 for a time, and it always bothered me that we got no indication of her real reaction to that.

So it is a part of both their characters that duty comes before personal desires. I'm not saying that's a new insight, but it is something we get a small sense of here.

And really, I was determined to meet the challenge and find some shippy undertone in this episode, even if it meant grasping at straws.

[Akamaimom]

Well I did say I was stretching and it only added a little support to that notion. But maybe it also gives us a window into the pressure they may have been under not to rock the boat. Not overt pressure mind you, but they must have felt the weight of all these expectations on them.

And saying all was well after S8 is just 20/20 hindsight. They didn't know that in S6. And the situation and enemy was very different in S9 & S10. Jack would have felt less responsible. (It was Daniel's fault. ) He also didn't manage to ever fully retire; so he did hang on to some of the mindset that his skills and experience were too valuable for him to walk away. Sam was pulled back in to SG1 for a time, and it always bothered me that we got no indication of her real reaction to that.

So it is a part of both their characters that duty comes before personal desires. I'm not saying that's a new insight, but it is something we get a small sense of here.

And really, I was determined to meet the challenge and find some shippy undertone in this episode, even if it meant grasping at straws.

I don't think your straws are too far off, though. I think that this entire episode lays the groundwork for some pretty severe outside pressure that they must be feeling from all sides to remain on SG-1. Kinsey almost gets control of the 'Gate, and Sam and Jack recognize that it's their participation in the program that prevents it. What does Thor say? That the Asgard would prefer for the 'Gate to remain in the hands of Hammond and his team. Who are Hammond's MAIN team? Sam and Jack and the others. If the other countries were to capitulate to the 'Gate remaining in US control because this freaky alien dude convinced the other nations it would be best, and then the team were to disintegrate, I think that Kinsey's arguments would then pack more of a punch. That's some pretty hefty peer pressure.

So, my read on this episode is that it puts MORE pressure on Sam and Jack to maintain the status quo--or perhaps more of an excuse to do so--now that pressure isn't just from their on personal senses of duty, it's now from the governments of the other countries, and from Thor.

But then, Thor doesn't have "needs", so he doesn't understand what he's asking of them.

[Cagranosalis]

Firstly, hlndncr, fab screen caps from Metamorphosis. I particularly liked the second one which also captures Teal'c looking on and taking note. I don't think I noticed that before you pointed it out but it does make the whole head nod and turning away thing he does so much more relevant. I'm going to have to go back and watch the commentary of that episode to see if there's anything specifically shippy mentioned.

And...fantastic review of Disclosure. Great job on a very difficult episode!

A couple of things I want to pick up on:

SG1 did five clip shows in its ten year run (Politics, Out of Mind, Disclosure, Inauguration, Citizen Joe), and of all of them, this is the one I like the least. Generally speaking SG1 does a really good job of providing an interesting envelope for this type of show. The clips tend to weave into the storyline and the “action” and quite often important events do occur in these episodes that have an impact on later episodes and seasons. In this case we see the seeds being planted for the future creation of the IOA, which comes to play a large part in Stargate mythology in all three series.

Clip shows are my absolute pet hate in all TV series. They are rarely done well, as you later pointed out, and they nearly always make me turn off or go bash my head into a wall or something. You can only imagie how delighted I wasn't that The X Files ended its run with a flipping clip show.
That said, I also think SG-1 actually did a decent job of all their clip shows. This is the one I least like too and for all the same reasons you do. Although I think here we see the start of something that came into full blossom on Inaugaration which has very much a similar premise (people sitting around talking about the future of the SGC) and yet executes it so much better, IMO.

I love Collin Cunningham. I think he’s a cutie and anytime we get to see him is alright by me.

Yes, me too! I love the character of Major Davis too. I think he started out in an amibigious/neutral role, possibly even maybe on the baddies side (the political baddies that is) but as the series progressed he's become, as you say, a real advocate for the SGC and it's lovely to see such a subtle character development for such a minor character. But then one thing about SG-1 that I've always loved is that most of the peripheral characters - be they goodies, baddies or aliens - have all had depth and, in many cases, character development, so you actually watch them genuine interest as to what's going to happen to them too. That, to me, is one of the reasons why SG-1's clip shows work so much better than a lot of other series.

Disclosure is a hundred times more watchable than some clip shows from other series, even if it is the worst of the lot. I supposed it's like a heavily included diamond among other diamonds but, well, if you stuck in in a batch of cubic zirconias it'd still outshine them all.

We get a nice cameo of Michael Shanks as the voice of Thor, and I just love it when Thor gives Kinsey “the finger,” in a manner of speaking

Yes, I love that scene "Supreme Commander..." That's Kinsey told!


By the way, now would be a good time to say fab job on the banner. I forgot to PM you back to say it was one that dind't get picked up in the rewatch challenge but someone offered to do it afterwards but I forgot who. I'm quite glad they forgot though since you did such an excellent job and your sarty skills are coming along beautifully.

So while neither one of them are indispensible, they are not wrong to believe that their decision to try and put their feelings for one another aside and focus on their work protecting earth is necessary and right at this time. It may be an excuse they are using to hide from other hurts and fears, but it is an excuse that does have some validity.

Blimey, well done on finding anything shippy here.

I do think the whole "fight against the goa'uld" / regulations thing is just a barrier they hide behind to save them from having to too closely examine the real reasons why neither is willing to make a commitment to a relationship. When you strip away all the excuses it all comes down to fear; fear of rejection, failure and loss of what they do have (which is a fantastic working relationship and a good friendship). Putting that all on the line for the chance of romantic happiness... well I can understand why they buried their heads in the sand for so long.

Am I doing my angst thing again?

[Cagranosalis]

Ack, sorry, a day late again... *slaps real life*

Banner by Treknik

Synopsis

SG-1 are on a seemingly routine (and somewhat dull, in Jack’s opinion if his attitude is anything to go by at the start). They stumble across a downed ship and, on investigating, are confronted by the three survivors of the crew. They offer to help fix the ship but are attacked by some “savage” aliens. They start to grow suspicious and dig deeper. Jonas take one of the injured back to the SGC where there’s a security breach.
Cutting a fairly long story short, it turns out the ship is a prison transport ship, the three aliens they first meet are escaped prisoners, and the savages are the crew. They manages to set up the prisoners so they are recaptured and the alien (Warrick, a Hebridan) thanks them before taking them back in his fixed ship to his home planet.



Review

I love this episode. It’s such a wonderful teamy feel to it, even though they spend a lot of time apart. I particularly love Jack in it and not for the obvious season six thunkathon (although, you know, it helps. ) Jack is 100% clued into his team here; all of them. At the start he very gently cut in over Sam as she’s about to – in her enthusiasm - divulge more information about them to the strangers than he’d like. He does this without stepping on her or undermining her in any way, just cutting over what she’s about to say and she gives him a knowing look in understanding. Then, right after, Teal’c is sensing something in the undergrowth, Jack sees him even while his attention is diverted elsewhere. He doesn’t question it; it’s Teal’c and he trusts his judgement. And then later, he recognises Jonas’ signal and completely trusts him too. But mostly, I love the fact that right from the start, Jack clearly doesn’t trust the aliens and his instincts are shown true. Contrast that with his almost instant trust of Warrick. I think he knew straight away that Corso and co. were feeding him a line. Jack’s got good instincts.

I also like the flirting Corso does with Sam and it’s interesting how Sam responds to it. She’s clearly flattered by his attention (which, incidently, turns out to be a diversionary tactic since it reflects the same that’s going on with Jonas elsewhere) and is happy to let him continue. I don’t see anything beyond the immediate situation (i.e. i don’t count Corso as one of Sam’s many alien “boyfriends”) but you can take this as an example of just how affection starved she really is. When you see this and think about the attention Pete pays her later on, you can see a correlation. I think if affects her jusgement a little since she does give away too much information for someone they’ve just met, despite Jack’s previous gentle warning. But, like she says, sometimes you have to trust people and hope they don’t make you live to regret it. And that, in itself is an interesting thing for her to say given her relationship with Jack but I’ll get to that in a minute.

The thing I like most about this episode is that there’s this alien race that is, for once, more or less completely alien, who doesn’t have a stargate, who don’t look quite like us and who turn out to be the good guys and is more advanced that us, entirely off their own back. It’s a very subtle message that appearances cannot be used to judge character, and I was quite glad when they came back to explore the racial and cultural differences of the two peoples of Hebridan later on in Space Race, but that’s another discussion.



Sam and Jack.

Oh how I love this opening scene. Let me count the ways. From the fact Jack’s singing...singing! And he’s singing an extremely guttery Monty Python ditty (for those who don’t know the song, *cough* er, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj02dhZBGZw *cough* yeah . And then there’s the free and easy banter, bit of teasing from both of them, and all that coupled with the fact they’re just in a complete no-peril environment with five hours to kill until the lightshow starts. And I love that Sam’s so enthusiastic about the whole thing and how Jack teases her on that while clearly enjoying her excitement. There’s nothing romantic about that scene (unless you don’t count that fact she’s just heard him sing... er, yeah... ) but I love what that says about their relationship at this stage. Gone is the awkwardness of season 5; gone is the avoidance of being together alone and the uncomfortable feeling. This is is a prime example of why Sam and Jack work as a couple; because they’re friends and they’re comfortable with each other. And you need that before you can really sustain a lasting relationship of any kind.

Other shippy bits / implications. Well there’s the bit where they come across Sam bound and gagged. Jack wants to go disarm the ship’s defences but Warrick offers to go (thus cementing the trust Jack has in him further – that he’d put his life on the line for someone he doesn’t even know). If I had super shippy strength glasses on I might suggest Jack wanted to go because that’s Sam there and he’s concerned about her... but you know Jack’s just that kind of guy who volunteers for the dangerous missions first and foremost. The moment they “rescue” her is nice too, because Jack lets Teal’c unbind her while he plays lookout, but he’s got one eye on her too. When he asks her is she’s ok it’s like it’s no big deal, which is reminiscent to the time he asks her this after she’s rescued in Desperate Measures.

Going back to Sam’s comment about trusting people and hoping they don’t make you regret it. What an interesting thing for her to say. Here she’s clearly demonstrating that she has no fear of situations that may result in a negative experience... and yet... and yet... she caan't apply the samee theory to her own emotions. Here she is NOT having a relationship with Jack and a large part of the reason she’s not is because there’s a fear there of destroying what they already have if it didn’t work out. Up there, I enthused about how wonderful it is to see their friendship and how comfortable they are with each other, but, actually, it’s because they are so comfortable with each other that I think they struggle to put that on the line for something more. The regulations... yeah, great excuse, nice barrier to hide behind, but it not why they won’t take a risk on being together; there’s a lot more personal reasons than that.

[Rachel500]

Forsaken

Generally

This is one that's grown on me through the years. I wasn't so thrilled first time around (although very cute that Jonas gets to be the one to save the day - and gets to be the one trusted to save the day) but over the years I've really enjoyed it.

I also love that here we have them making friends with an alien who looks like an alien again. It's something that the show loses from here on out (with Space Race the follow-up being the only exception).

Sam and Jack

I think Cags covered most of it in her review but I too love the opening scene. It is a really guttery song! But I love the easy camaraderie of it; it's as though the angst of PL and Metamorphosis, and almost losing each other, along with the way they've supported each other through missions to date since Daniel's death has built up into this wonderful scene of complete and total friendship; of a happy non-angsty moment between the two of them just enjoying each other's company and the prospect of star-watching to come.

Which, of course, is why we get the tease of Corso and Sam, and the mutual flirting. I have to admit that I find Corso yummy and could see if Corso had been a criminal-bad-boy with a conscience rather than simply a ruthless criminal, that he and Sam could have had sparks.

For me the interesting line though is when Corso asks her if she's with someone, Sam deflects and says that she doesn't want to talk about it indicating that there is someone. I always think this line gives away that for Sam her heart is with Jack and that is blocking her from considering other romantic prospects. She's happy to indulge in a bit of flirting; flattered by Corso's evident admiration of her but she's not really interested because her romantic focus is elsewhere.

The final point that I want to make is that I love that Sam doesn't actually get taken in by Corso for all the flattery; she works out that he's spinning them a line, takes him down and ties him up. It's only because the guy who was supposed to be with Jack and Teal'c sneaks back and knocks her out that she gets captured herself.