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    I will post my review of Metamorphosis tomorrow if that's ok - RL mad at the mo
    Have quickly read lots of the other reviews, they're just great, Sight Unseen was a bit whacky but hey Jack in civvies. Paradise Lost is also one of my all-time faves as perfectly explained by Petra

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      Seldear, yep, course you can. This isn't and exclusive rewatch thread - just a way of theming and directing discussions - so if you have something worth sharing (and it was) then go right ahead.

      Originally posted by Petra View Post
      Yes, I did. *nods enthusiastically* I think it's fantastic. A few months ago I stumbled upon her fic "Three Days Away" which just hit all the right places for me - realistically speaking, that's exactly how I see them and their issues - and have been an avid and loyal reader of hers ever since. She's one of my favourite fanfic writers. But I think you are right, her portrayal of S/J is so far from your general fluffy "and they lived happily ever after" that it's not everyone's cup of tea.

      PS> I left you a VM about this.


      PARADISE LOST

      Actually I don't have anything to add. I think Josi did a great job and I hope somebody greened her, since I can't. *stupid system*

      PL is one of my favourite episodes ever and quite possibly my second favourite Jack episode (after "Abyss"). I love his depiction as very smart, intelligent, tough, self-reliant guy who *can* take care of himself (and his wounded comrade) and work out the problem on his own. Just goes to show you how much of his "I'm not so bright" persona is an act.

      Sam is wonderfully emotional here - and I mean it in the best way possible. She's always so controlled and we are so used to seing her hiding her emotions to be the objective one that seeing her losing it every once in a while is nice. Esp. since it's entirely IC for her. She's not the one for public displays of emotions so Teal'c finding her crying in a darkened locker room feels right.

      And Teal'c. How I love this guy, always watching out for his teammates, assuming Jack's 'caretaker' role in his absence and his fabulous, quiet friendship with Sam.

      See? I can't even string 2 sentences together about this episode without gushing how awesome it is.

      Yes yes. That's about it for me. in a nutshell.

      Josi, I adored your review and was going to come post some thoughts on its awesomeness but my sore and mauled fingers have severely limited my ability to ramble on mindlessly... some say that's a good thing.
      Anyway, awesome review. really well done and you deserve a huge pat on the back for getting past the guhthunkdrool reaction.

      Originally posted by Fluffy17 View Post
      I will post my review of Metamorphosis tomorrow if that's ok - RL mad at the mo
      Have quickly read lots of the other reviews, they're just great, Sight Unseen was a bit whacky but hey Jack in civvies. Paradise Lost is also one of my all-time faves as perfectly explained by Petra
      No worries Fluffy! We're sort of running a day later anyway. *hugs* for real life.



      Probably a good time to mention it but Season 7 rewatch will be starting early October. I already have a couple of people interested in doing episodes so, as usual, if you want to participate, PM me with your preferences/avoidances and availability. I will try and accommodate as much as possible.
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        Metamorphosis

        Recap

        Ah the Russians, never had a good time at the SGC, (The Tomb, Small Victories and Lockdown) and now they bring back some obviously ill alien chap called Alebran through the Stargate who then proceeds to explode. Why? Nirrti, an evil Goauld if ever there was one, fiddling around with DNA, ever on the search for the perfect human. She’d already destroyed on planet people (Singularity). And then in Rite of Passage SG1 got her in to save Cassie and then let her go. After much discussion on why the unfortunate Russians should accompany them, SG1 return to the planet. They discover Nirrti has been meddling with DNA and creating a whole load of very odd creatures that for reasons best known to themselves seem to like her. After all she is a God. SG1 and the Colonel Ivanov are captured and imprisoned by these people who have telepathic and telekinetic powers, and therefore weapons are useless against them.

        Nirrti starts experimenting with Ivanov, then takes Sam. Many looks between Jack & Sam. And when she returns looking awful, she cuddles into Jack for what may be the last time. There’s a nod from Teal’c as Sam appears to ask him if it’s ok. Ivanov dies horribly and they all realise this is going to happen to them.

        Jonas is taken to Nirrti who realises that he’s slightly different, after his manipulation he wakes up in her bed. She tells him he could be much more than what he is with the Tau’ri, he tells her he would free his friends, the people she has in the jail and kill her, she then thumps him. I love that scene.

        Jack tries persuasion telling Egar he should read Nirrti’s mind and find out what really happened to Woldan’s brother, Alebran. He does and tells Woldan that Nirrti is responsible for his brother’s death; Woldan not surprisingly loses it and kill Nirrti. Jack tries to stop him saying that they need her to save his people, and then more specifically to save Carter. Luckily (and how convenient) Egar has read Nirrti’s mind and knows how to reconstruct DNA through what seems like an incredibly advanced machine. I never really felt that bit worked, as you can tell!

        Carter is restored to full health, complete with a rabid interest in the machine. Sensibly Egar & Woldan say that once their people are cured they will destroy it.

        I like this episode, lots of looks between Sam & Jack, both in the cell and after Sam is returned to full health and Jack is quoting Wizard of Oz. That bit when she rests her head on his shoulder is a bonafide piece of script, a sign I say from TPTB. The special effect shot when the bullet is stopped in mid-air is excellent.

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          Ah, Metamorphosis - the conclusion of the SG1 versus Nirrti trilogy Also known as the episode where Jack's decisions in Rite of Passage come back to bite him on the behind. He bargained to save Cassie's life then, but now he is confronted with the damage Nirrti has wrought since then, and then if that wasn't bad enough, Nirrti almost kills Sam.

          This is such a shippy episode. Normally when Sam or Jack are in mortal danger, the other one is elsewhere and so they don't see the effect it has on the other. Here they are together - Sam sees Jack's reactions, and he really sees what is happening to her. I think that's why we get the head-on-shoulder scene here - for once we have them together when it seems like there's no hope. And I have to say I love Teal'c's role in that scene - the way Sam almost looks to him for permission before she rests against Jack (or not so much permission rather than a request for understanding that she's taking this moment of weakness), and the way Teal'c just turns away to give them their privacy, understanding that they need this, why they need this, and that it's easier for them if they can pretend he's not there with them. I also think it's significant that even though Jack tells her to rest, and Sam leans against him, Jack doesn't reach out to her, doesn't put his arm around her, just provides that quiet support. It's almost like that's his way of justifying what they're doing - it can't be perceived wrongly if he doesn't embrace her, even though there's no-one else to see. Shows how deeply their sense of duty runs.
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            Originally posted by josiane View Post
            Ah, Metamorphosis - the conclusion of the SG1 versus Nirrti trilogy Also known as the episode where Jack's decisions in Rite of Passage come back to bite him on the behind. He bargained to save Cassie's life then, but now he is confronted with the damage Nirrti has wrought since then, and then if that wasn't bad enough, Nirrti almost kills Sam.

            This is such a shippy episode. Normally when Sam or Jack are in mortal danger, the other one is elsewhere and so they don't see the effect it has on the other. Here they are together - Sam sees Jack's reactions, and he really sees what is happening to her. I think that's why we get the head-on-shoulder scene here - for once we have them together when it seems like there's no hope. And I have to say I love Teal'c's role in that scene - the way Sam almost looks to him for permission before she rests against Jack (or not so much permission rather than a request for understanding that she's taking this moment of weakness), and the way Teal'c just turns away to give them their privacy, understanding that they need this, why they need this, and that it's easier for them if they can pretend he's not there with them. I also think it's significant that even though Jack tells her to rest, and Sam leans against him, Jack doesn't reach out to her, doesn't put his arm around her, just provides that quiet support. It's almost like that's his way of justifying what they're doing - it can't be perceived wrongly if he doesn't embrace her, even though there's no-one else to see. Shows how deeply their sense of duty runs.
            His NOT embracing her can also be seen as him preserving her sense of "tough". That maybe if he'd cuddled her, or cradled her, then that would have made her feel weaker and she could have perceived that as his not believing that she could tough it out.
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              Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post
              His NOT embracing her can also be seen as him preserving her sense of "tough". That maybe if he'd cuddled her, or cradled her, then that would have made her feel weaker and she could have perceived that as his not believing that she could tough it out.
              Perhaps he was just concerned she may explode at any moment..........

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                Originally posted by Fluffy17 View Post
                Perhaps he was just concerned she may explode at any moment..........
                EEEEEEwwwwwww. Gross.
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                  Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post
                  EEEEEEwwwwwww. Gross.
                  You can tell I've had a crazy week! I love that episode though, all those little out of the corner of the eye looks and it's season 6 and Jack looks, well how does she deny herself I ask myself, I mean how old was he, what 52, amazing *swoons into a corner*

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                    Metamorphosis

                    Generally


                    I like the premise of this very much - a final showdown between Nirrti and SG1. But I've never been 100% "oh wow" about the execution of this one. For all the storyline does have a ticking clock on Sam disintegrating into water, I think it just lacks dramatic tension for me - and did even at first viewing and the denouement and final scene just aren't dramatically powerful either. Hmmm.

                    I do love Jonas and Teal'c in this episode with their escape attempt which actually almost works. And I love that here we see that Jonas is effectively now completely a part of the team. Sam calls for him to come help her; he tries to escape with Teal'c; Jack protests his being taken; he tells Nirrti where to go.

                    What I also love is the Sam and Jack stuff...

                    Sam and Jack

                    There are four things that I really want to comment on:

                    First, the scene where Nirrti has zatted Sam and is holding her hostage. I love that scene because Jack clearly just wants to take Nirrti out and he's hampered both by the need for her to undo what she's done to the people on the planet but also by the fact that she has Sam hostage. He really doesn't have a lot of options so no surprise that he does surrender.

                    Second, the scenes in the cell. I love that he tries to go first but they stop him; love how he takes hold of her when she's returned; love the quiet devastation on his face when she tells him she doesn't think she's OK. Jack does come across as being quietly and desperately frantic underneath that she's dying and he can't do anything, and yet trying to stay focused on saving her; on being strong and maintaining that she will survive as he did in Solitudes so that she doesn't give up. Love the call-back to BTS and Teal'c's quiet understanding to give Sam a moment of privacy with Jack. As for Jack not putting his arm around her - I think he really wants to but can't because it would be far too revealing of his own feelings although I think he justifies it on a conscious level as not wanting to give her cause to think he's given up on saving her - maybe if they'd had more time in that position he would have eventually given in.

                    Thirdly, I love that Jack offers himself to save Sam primarily. He's just not in a position to bargain though.

                    And fourthly, he does reach out to her as she steps off the platform and they do exchange some nice looks in the final scene. It is almost as though again he wants to touch her and hug her and reassure himself she's OK but he can't so he holds back.
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                      Originally posted by Fluffy17 View Post
                      You can tell I've had a crazy week! I love that episode though, all those little out of the corner of the eye looks and it's season 6 and Jack looks, well how does she deny herself I ask myself, I mean how old was he, what 52, amazing *swoons into a corner*



                      Yes, indeed (on both counts)


                      *takes moment to thunk out yet again*

                      (well this is season 6. )


                      Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
                      [B]Metamorphosis

                      I like the premise of this very much - a final showdown between Nirrti and SG1. But I've never been 100% "oh wow" about the execution of this one. For all the storyline does have a ticking clock on Sam disintegrating into water, I think it just lacks dramatic tension for me - and did even at first viewing and the denouement and final scene just aren't dramatically powerful either. Hmmm.
                      Yes, I know what you mean. It should feel so much more...tense? Fraught? I don't know; I like the fact that a lot of the SG-1 drama (and the Sam/Jack stuff in particular) is subtle and understated but this was one of those times when hamming it up a little would have improved the overall pace and feel of the story. I suppose it doesn't help that we know that members of SG-1 are always going to be ok in the end but, they've done team-member-in-peril before and not lost the dramatic effect just because the audience knows it's going to work out.



                      Second, the scenes in the cell. I love that he tries to go first but they stop him; love how he takes hold of her when she's returned; love the quiet devastation on his face when she tells him she doesn't think she's OK.
                      On the bolded, yes! That's exactly the kind of understated reactions they have to each other. Sam's always been a little more open with her feelings (or lets them show more) but, on the whole, they both do restrained oh so well.


                      As for Jack not putting his arm around her - I think he really wants to but can't because it would be far too revealing of his own feelings although I think he justifies it on a conscious level as not wanting to give her cause to think he's given up on saving her - maybe if they'd had more time in that position he would have eventually given in.
                      And, hearkening back to a discussion we had here (or was it the appreciation thread) about the "deleted" kisses (ones that were written but never shot for various reasons). A rather excellent point that came from that was that Jack would not want to burden Sam with his feelings if he were dying (as in Lost City and here, I think the same is true but it's Sam who is dying. It doesn't change the fact Jack does not want to burden her last hours with regret of what they could never have. I'm sure there's also an element of self protection from him too, in that he doesn't want to offer her that comfort, have her open up to him and then be left mourning her with that regret. Kind of ironic really because the regret would have been there anyway regardless of the actions. And that initself, is a nice analogy to the whole relationship because, in the end - together or not together - they were in an awful rut of regret and longing.

                      Gosh I do love my angst!


                      Thirdly, I love that Jack offers himself to save Sam primarily. He's just not in a position to bargain though.
                      Ah yes, I love that. It's the way he says it.


                      And fourthly, he does reach out to her as she steps off the platform and they do exchange some nice looks in the final scene. It is almost as though again he wants to touch her and hug her and reassure himself she's OK but he can't so he holds back.
                      And this is the point where I think something doesn't quite work. We see Jack scoop Sam up in his arms; she's covered in sweat (or possibly supposed to be starting to break down and the wet look is meant to indicate to the audience just how close a call this is) but next scene she's upright again, dry and a bone, neatly styled hair etc. Firstly, if the wet look really was to emphasise how close a call this is, it didn't really work. Much better would have been seeing Jack hurridly carrying Sam down the corridor, seeing her spluttering and being placed in a heap on the platform and Jack harshly shouting at the mutants to hurry up... well that's the scene I would have shot anyway.
                      And after that, how can she be so all right? I mean at the very least a bit of severe dehydration? I realise that would have detracted from the fluffy happy ending but, actually, it would have been better showing Sam "fixed" but still needing support/medical attention and then the whole discussion about destroying the machine could have taken place over a recovering Sam's bedside back at the SGC. Again, that's how I would have written it. What do I know! *shrugs*


                      Having criticised all that I still think it's a lovely little episode and it does serve the purpose of tying up the Nirrti storyline quite satisfactorily.
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                        Originally posted by Cagranosalis View Post
                        And, hearkening back to a discussion we had here (or was it the appreciation thread) about the "deleted" kisses (ones that were written but never shot for various reasons). A rather excellent point that came from that was that Jack would not want to burden Sam with his feelings if he were dying (as in Lost City and here, I think the same is true but it's Sam who is dying. It doesn't change the fact Jack does not want to burden her last hours with regret of what they could never have. I'm sure there's also an element of self protection from him too, in that he doesn't want to offer her that comfort, have her open up to him and then be left mourning her with that regret. Kind of ironic really because the regret would have been there anyway regardless of the actions. And that initself, is a nice analogy to the whole relationship because, in the end - together or not together - they were in an awful rut of regret and longing.

                        Gosh I do love my angst!
                        Nicely put! I meant to say in response to Akamaimom's point about preserving Sam's 'tough' to contrast it with the arm round her at the end of Death Knell, but I was struggling to formulate my point there. This has helped me clarify - here it's an ongoing situation, Sam is still fighting and she's still in a lot of danger. By the time she rests on Jack at the end of Death Knell, the danger is past. I guess therefore your point about not having the regrets no longer factors here, and so they're less cautious.

                        And this is the point where I think something doesn't quite work. We see Jack scoop Sam up in his arms; she's covered in sweat (or possibly supposed to be starting to break down and the wet look is meant to indicate to the audience just how close a call this is) but next scene she's upright again, dry and a bone, neatly styled hair etc. Firstly, if the wet look really was to emphasise how close a call this is, it didn't really work. Much better would have been seeing Jack hurridly carrying Sam down the corridor, seeing her spluttering and being placed in a heap on the platform and Jack harshly shouting at the mutants to hurry up... well that's the scene I would have shot anyway.
                        And after that, how can she be so all right? I mean at the very least a bit of severe dehydration? I realise that would have detracted from the fluffy happy ending but, actually, it would have been better showing Sam "fixed" but still needing support/medical attention and then the whole discussion about destroying the machine could have taken place over a recovering Sam's bedside back at the SGC. Again, that's how I would have written it. What do I know! *shrugs*
                        I guess I've always put it down to Nirrti's magical machine - if it can do so much damage, why shouldn't it be able to instantly fix her? But yes, I take your point, it is another one of Stargate's patented 'quick-we've-shot-40-minutes-and-only-have-two-to-wrap-everything-up' endings
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                          Originally posted by Cagranosalis View Post

                          <snip>

                          And, hearkening back to a discussion we had here (or was it the appreciation thread) about the "deleted" kisses (ones that were written but never shot for various reasons). A rather excellent point that came from that was that Jack would not want to burden Sam with his feelings if he were dying (as in Lost City and here, I think the same is true but it's Sam who is dying. It doesn't change the fact Jack does not want to burden her last hours with regret of what they could never have. I'm sure there's also an element of self protection from him too, in that he doesn't want to offer her that comfort, have her open up to him and then be left mourning her with that regret. Kind of ironic really because the regret would have been there anyway regardless of the actions. And that initself, is a nice analogy to the whole relationship because, in the end - together or not together - they were in an awful rut of regret and longing.

                          Gosh I do love my angst!

                          And this is the point where I think something doesn't quite work. We see Jack scoop Sam up in his arms; she's covered in sweat (or possibly supposed to be starting to break down and the wet look is meant to indicate to the audience just how close a call this is) but next scene she's upright again, dry and a bone, neatly styled hair etc. Firstly, if the wet look really was to emphasise how close a call this is, it didn't really work. Much better would have been seeing Jack hurridly carrying Sam down the corridor, seeing her spluttering and being placed in a heap on the platform and Jack harshly shouting at the mutants to hurry up... well that's the scene I would have shot anyway.

                          And after that, how can she be so all right? I mean at the very least a bit of severe dehydration? I realise that would have detracted from the fluffy happy ending but, actually, it would have been better showing Sam "fixed" but still needing support/medical attention and then the whole discussion about destroying the machine could have taken place over a recovering Sam's bedside back at the SGC. Again, that's how I would have written it. What do I know! *shrugs*

                          Having criticised all that I still think it's a lovely little episode and it does serve the purpose of tying up the Nirrti storyline quite satisfactorily.

                          Originally posted by josiane View Post
                          Nicely put! I meant to say in response to Akamaimom's point about preserving Sam's 'tough' to contrast it with the arm round her at the end of Death Knell, but I was struggling to formulate my point there. This has helped me clarify - here it's an ongoing situation, Sam is still fighting and she's still in a lot of danger. By the time she rests on Jack at the end of Death Knell, the danger is past. I guess therefore your point about not having the regrets no longer factors here, and so they're less cautious.

                          I guess I've always put it down to Nirrti's magical machine - if it can do so much damage, why shouldn't it be able to instantly fix her? But yes, I take your point, it is another one of Stargate's patented 'quick-we've-shot-40-minutes-and-only-have-two-to-wrap-everything-up' endings
                          I agree. I think a more dramatic ending would have helped. In my Aftershock I had Sam dizzy and nauseous on the way back to the 'gate, collapsing once they were almost there because she's just had her DNA remixed twice in one day - that has to put some strain on the body. For her just to be magically fixed by the machine ruins the dramatic impact.

                          I think the other point about Death Knell hug in comparison with Metamorphosis is that Sam is dating Pete by DK. And I do think that makes a difference for Jack because I think it allows him to think that showing her some additional comfort is relatively safe from connotations: to his mind she knows that he knows she's with Pete so she won't think of it as being anything more than a comforting gesture from a friend to another friend. But even then he can't quite bring himself to fully hold her as though to do so would be too revealing still of how he really feels.
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                            Originally posted by josiane View Post
                            Nicely put! I meant to say in response to Akamaimom's point about preserving Sam's 'tough' to contrast it with the arm round her at the end of Death Knell, but I was struggling to formulate my point there. This has helped me clarify - here it's an ongoing situation, Sam is still fighting and she's still in a lot of danger. By the time she rests on Jack at the end of Death Knell, the danger is past. I guess therefore your point about not having the regrets no longer factors here, and so they're less cautious.


                            I guess I've always put it down to Nirrti's magical machine - if it can do so much damage, why shouldn't it be able to instantly fix her? But yes, I take your point, it is another one of Stargate's patented 'quick-we've-shot-40-minutes-and-only-have-two-to-wrap-everything-up' endings
                            I've thought a lot about that arm around her shoulders in Death Knell, and it's interesting if you watch it--he never touches her with his hand. It dangles there, tense--kind of clawed up--like he wants to touch her, but doesn't know if he should or not. That smacks to me of his feeling awkward about the whole Pete thing. I think he's trying to put distance between them, there--and again preserving her ego by acknowledging her pain, but not comforting it. Because if she needed comfort, then that would indicate weakness.

                            I'm tired, so I don't know how much sense that made.

                            It's a clear contrast, though, from the hug in "Fire and Water" (??) when Daniel's taken by the underwater sea monster guy and Sam goes under hypnosis in order to find out if he's really dead. His hands are open, and fully touching her. It's like his desire for her, his pain at loosing her, has made it harder for him to express himself to her through touch.

                            And the Nirrti machine. Yeah--that perfect hair/makeup thing bothered me,too. Maybe the machine is like one of those futuristic things that dresses you and puts on your makeup every morning--and I bet Nirrti uses it, too. How else could she get her eyeliner that perfect?
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                              Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post
                              I've thought a lot about that arm around her shoulders in Death Knell, and it's interesting if you watch it--he never touches her with his hand. It dangles there, tense--kind of clawed up--like he wants to touch her, but doesn't know if he should or not. That smacks to me of his feeling awkward about the whole Pete thing. I think he's trying to put distance between them, there--and again preserving her ego by acknowledging her pain, but not comforting it. Because if she needed comfort, then that would indicate weakness.

                              I'm tired, so I don't know how much sense that made.

                              It's a clear contrast, though, from the hug in "Fire and Water" (??) when Daniel's taken by the underwater sea monster guy and Sam goes under hypnosis in order to find out if he's really dead. His hands are open, and fully touching her. It's like his desire for her, his pain at loosing her, has made it harder for him to express himself to her through touch.
                              It made sense I think it is significant that he doesn't touch her with his hand too, and it's kind of his one thing he keeps back, showing a certain hesitancy about whether he should be doing it at all. I wouldn't contrast it to Fire & Water so much myself though, as that was both a long time ago and also such a reaction - neither of them thought, Sam was just hit with the trauma and I don't think Jack thought twice before throwing his arms round her. A better comparison I think would be to the hug in Heroes, which he does full-on commit to (even to the point of the neck nuzzle ). I think he allowed himself there because she came to him, specifically, and because they were alone, there was no danger and no-one to see and it was like they could have that moment without having to justify it to themselves or potentially anyone else either.
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                                Originally posted by josiane View Post
                                It made sense I think it is significant that he doesn't touch her with his hand too, and it's kind of his one thing he keeps back, showing a certain hesitancy about whether he should be doing it at all. I wouldn't contrast it to Fire & Water so much myself though, as that was both a long time ago and also such a reaction - neither of them thought, Sam was just hit with the trauma and I don't think Jack thought twice before throwing his arms round her. A better comparison I think would be to the hug in Heroes, which he does full-on commit to (even to the point of the neck nuzzle ). I think he allowed himself there because she came to him, specifically, and because they were alone, there was no danger and no-one to see and it was like they could have that moment without having to justify it to themselves or potentially anyone else either.
                                And I almost did compare it to Heroes, but didn't. See how much smarter you are than me? Totally makes sense.

                                I think that it shows how much distance he's trying to put between them--trying to let her go. **sob!**
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