Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[leiasky]

Ohh, I love the discussion about Kerry. I really liked her as a character and could very well see Jack with her if Sam wasn't in the picture. They were good together.

But Sam is there and I don't see Jack hanging out with Kerry outside of work. Do we know if Kerry went back to Washington? If so, it's likely, in Jack's job at HWC that he runs into her. But I think that's all they have; a professional relationship.

[yessika]

As much as a like Kerry, I have to agree that I don't see Jack being friends with her...

Uhm, do we have a schedule of episodes coming up for discussion??

[kusanagi]

I agree with majority here. I don't think Jack would stay in touch with Kerry. I don't think Kerry would like it as well. She had to get out

[AstraPerAspera]

I seem to recall in a S9 episode...maybe it was Ex Deus Machina...that Daniel makes mention of getting some information from Kerry Johnson, probably related to the Trust activities that were at the core of that episode. I thought it was a nice call-back, actually. Although certainly not my *favorite* scene in that ep.

Er.... "Not exactly..."....

[Petra]

Sorry I'm so late to reply, but RL got in the way.

Rachel, length of your post made me smile - in a good way! Thanks for such thorough reply. You made some very good points and I can certainly see your POV. However Kerry/Jack friendship just *works* for me. I guess it boils down to our different interpretations of not only potential of Jack/Kerry relationship but also the barbecue scene from Threads and Jack's life in Washington.

And to put things straight, I've never said a word about Daniel and Teal'c; my argument was about Sam and Barret, who was Sam's potential love interest.(Jack jealous about Danny or T is just so wrong on so many levels) But anyway...how does agreeing to disagree work for you?

I agree with majority here. I don't think Jack would stay in touch with Kerry. I don't think Kerry would like it as well. She had to get out

Majority?! Hon, it's me against the whole fandom! Or at least its S/J shipper part!

But then, I know my views about the show as a whole, its characters and especially S/J ship aren't very popular. Why change the habit of a lifetime? I'll just add Jack/Kerry friendship to my list of "Unpopular shipper opinions about Sam and Jack":

1. I don't want them to get married. Nor do I see them wanting to get married.
2. No kids. I just can't see them having children.
3. I'm not a big fan of either of them retiring/resigning for the sake of their relationship.
4. I see their ship as part of team interactions, not a separate thing. What's happening between them influences other team members and what's happening between, say, Jack and Teal'c influences S/J ship.
5. I like Laira and Anise/Freya.
6. I can't stand Martouf.
7. I used to like Orlin but after reading a few posts (made by a guy!) explaining why Orlin's behaviour was creepy and inexcusable I tend to agree with that poster's reasoning.
8. If I wasn't a die-hard S/J shipper I could definitely see Jack with Kerry and Sam with Barret.
9. Sam/Teal'c thing worked for me in Unending (I am very uncomfortable with its implications and consequences in normal timeline though)
10. I don't think either Sam or Jack stayed celibate for 8 years. I can see them having one night stands/short affairs off-screen.
11. I don't think theirs was "love at first sight".
12. I don't buy "Jack had been a male chauvinist before he met Sam and it was she who changed his opinion about women" argument.
13. As recently discussed, I do believe Sam was quite happy with her job and friends and without a guy for the first 5-6 seasons.
14. I don't think Jonas Hansen abused Sam in any way; physically, sexually or verbally. I think she got out of that relationship as soon as she started to feel uncomfortable.
15. I think Jack and Sara had been happy together and he was still in love with her for a big chunk of season 1.
16. I don't believe that the age difference between Jack and Sam is so big that he's old enough to be her father. The way I see canon is: Jack was born in 1957, Sam in 1968. However personally I think Sam is around Daniel's age, born in 1965. So their age difference is 11 years in canon, 8 in my world.
17. I can see Jack and Kerry becoming friends.

And a list of unpopular opinions about Sam, Jack and the show:

Spoiler:

1. I like Jaffa stories.
2. I like Tok'ra stories.
3. I have allergic reaction to the last 2 seasons of the show.
4. I like Jack as general. I think it suits him, he deserves it and it works for his character.
5. I don't see any SG-1 team member as a spotless hero. They all have faults and make mistakes.
6. I'm sure that Jack and Teal'c did some horrible things serving their country/god. Yes, I think they might have been forced to kill women and children too.
7. I don't think Sam has ever been SGC's 2IC. (that's bound to be very unpopular)
8. I love Jonas Quinn.
9. I like Jonas as much as season 1-6 Daniel and definitely much more than season 7-10 Daniel.
10. While I'm certain Jack and Daniel are close friends I don't see them as best friends ever.
11. I think Teal'c is Jack's best friend. Certainly the most trusted friend.
12. I believe Jack got over Charlie's death (as much as it is possible to get over your child's death) and doesn't torture himself over it every.single.day.
13. I love/like some really unpopular episodes, like Hathor, Tin Man, One False Step, 100 days etc.
14. I don't like The Ancients storyline. At first it was boring, then in the later seasons it became ridiculous and far too important.
15. I don't like some very popular episodes, like Lifeboat or The Quest.
16. Except for "Prometheus" I hate all Earth ships with passion.
17. I'm allergic to overuse of Asgard beams.
18. I think we haven't done anything yet to deserve being called "The Fifth Race"

[EvenstarSRV]

Majority?! Hon, it's me against the whole fandom! Or at least its S/J shipper part!

But then, I know my views about the show as a whole, its characters and especially S/J ship aren't very popular. Why change the habit of a lifetime? I'll just add Jack/Kerry friendship to my list of "Unpopular shipper opinions about Sam and Jack":

1. I don't want them to get married. Nor do I see them wanting to get married.
2. No kids. I just can't see them having children.
3. I'm not a big fan of either of them retiring/resigning for the sake of their relationship.
4. I see their ship as part of team interactions, not a separate thing. What's happening between them influences other team members and what's happening between, say, Jack and Teal'c influences S/J ship.
5. I like Laira and Anise/Freya.
6. I can't stand Martouf.
7. I used to like Orlin but after reading a few posts (made by a guy!) explaining why Orlin's behaviour was creepy and inexcusable I tend to agree with that poster's reasoning.
8. If I wasn't a die-hard S/J shipper I could definitely see Jack with Kerry and Sam with Barret.
9. Sam/Teal'c thing worked for me in Unending (I am very uncomfortable with its implications and consequences in normal timeline though)
10. I don't think either Sam or Jack stayed celibate for 8 years. I can see them having one night stands/short affairs off-screen.
11. I don't think theirs was "love at first sight".
12. I don't buy "Jack had been a male chauvinist before he met Sam and it was she who changed his opinion about women" argument.
13. As recently discussed, I do believe Sam was quite happy with her job and friends and without a guy for the first 5-6 seasons.
14. I don't think Jonas Hansen abused Sam in any way; physically, sexually or verbally. I think she got out of that relationship as soon as she started to feel uncomfortable.
15. I think Jack and Sara had been happy together and he was still in love with her for a big chunk of season 1.
16. I don't believe that the age difference between Jack and Sam is so big that he's old enough to be her father. The way I see canon is: Jack was born in 1957, Sam in 1968. However personally I think Sam is around Daniel's age, born in 1965. So their age difference is 11 years in canon, 8 in my world.
17. I can see Jack and Kerry becoming friends.

Hee, nice list! I think I agree with pretty much all of them except for 6, 7, 9, and 17 to an extent. I've got a soft spot for Martouf and Orlin and don't see any problem with Sam/Teal'c in Unending re the normal timeline, and I personally see Jack and Kerry as friends more in an workplace context than outside of work.

And a list of unpopular opinions about Sam, Jack and the show:

Spoiler:

1. I like Jaffa stories.
2. I like Tok'ra stories.
3. I have allergic reaction to the last 2 seasons of the show.
4. I like Jack as general. I think it suits him, he deserves it and it works for his character.
5. I don't see any SG-1 team member as a spotless hero. They all have faults and make mistakes.
6. I'm sure that Jack and Teal'c did some horrible things serving their country/god. Yes, I think they might have been forced to kill women and children too.
7. I don't think Sam has ever been SGC's 2IC. (that's bound to be very unpopular)
8. I love Jonas Quinn.
9. I like Jonas as much as season 1-6 Daniel and definitely much more than season 7-10 Daniel.
10. While I'm certain Jack and Daniel are close friends I don't see them as best friends ever.
11. I think Teal'c is Jack's best friend. Certainly the most trusted friend.
12. I believe Jack got over Charlie's death (as much as it is possible to get over your child's death) and doesn't torture himself over it every.single.day.
13. I love/like some really unpopular episodes, like Hathor, Tin Man, One False Step, 100 days etc.
14. I don't like The Ancients storyline. At first it was boring, then in the later seasons it became ridiculous and far too important.
15. I don't like some very popular episodes, like Lifeboat or The Quest.
16. Except for "Prometheus" I hate all Earth ships with passion.
17. I'm allergic to overuse of Asgard beams.
18. I think we haven't done anything yet to deserve being called "The Fifth Race"

Spoiler:

Hee, I agree with most of this list as well. Though I do have a huge soft spot for the Hammond because of its tie to Don. S. Davis.

[Petra]

Hee, nice list! I think I agree with pretty much all of them except for 6, 7, 9, and 17 to an extent. I've got a soft spot for Martouf and Orlin and don't see any problem with Sam/Teal'c in Unending re the normal timeline, and I personally see Jack and Kerry as friends more in an workplace context than outside of work.

Good to know I'm not completely crazy. But your non-shipper's agreement with my list kinda reinforces the fact that it's unpopular among shippers.

Also, I should have moved Martouf to the other, gen, list, because my dislike of him doesn't have anything to do with S/J ship or even his character per se, but the way JR Bourne played him.

Spoilered for S/T in Unending OT

Spoiler:

You seriously don't see any problems for poor Teal'c? For Sam it never happened so she's back with Jack and as much of a stoic as Teal'c is, it must hurt him to see the woman he loves happily in love and in a relationship with his best friend and unaware of anything that happened between them. And what about Ishta? I'm not sure if I'd call myself Teal'c/Ishta shipper but I like them together and I've always thought of them as an item. So now Teal'c came back from some mission - for Ishta it's been only days/weeks/months depending on how often they see each other - and he's suddenly in love with another woman? Has a lifetime of memories being with her? How is Ishta supposed to feel or react? And what about Teal'c himself? Does he love them both? Or only Sam? Will he try to work something out? I just think that while this ship worked nicely in the ep it the long run it totally messes Teal'c up.

[EvenstarSRV]

Good to know I'm not completely crazy. But your non-shipper's agreement with my list kinda reinforces the fact that it's unpopular among shippers.

LOL, true.

Also, I should have moved Martouf to the other, gen, list, because my dislike of him doesn't have anything to do with S/J ship or even his character per se, but the way JR Bourne played him.

Ah, gotcha. I do think that he could have been played a bit stronger I guess, not quite so even-tempered though I did like his calmness to an extent.

Spoilered for S/T in Unending OT

Spoiler:

You seriously don't see any problems for poor Teal'c? For Sam it never happened so she's back with Jack and as much of a stoic as Teal'c is, it must hurt him to see the woman he loves happily in love and in a relationship with his best friend and unaware of anything that happened between them. And what about Ishta? I'm not sure if I'd call myself Teal'c/Ishta shipper but I like them together and I've always thought of them as an item. So now Teal'c came back from some mission - for Ishta it's been only days/weeks/months depending on how often they see each other - and he's suddenly in love with another woman? Has a lifetime of memories being with her? How is Ishta supposed to feel or react? And what about Teal'c himself? Does he love them both? Or only Sam? Will he try to work something out? I just think that while this ship worked nicely in the ep it the long run it totally messes Teal'c up.

Unending OT

Spoiler:

Good points. I guess I see Teal'c's emotions rather differently in that I don't think he and Sam 'fell in love' during Unending. I saw it more as close friends who became even more emotionally dependent on one another, not really in a romantic way but more like best friends taken to the nth degree, if that makes sense. So while it would be undoubtedly difficult for Teal'c to no longer have this deep emotional bond with Sam because she doesn't remember any of it, out of all of the characters I think he'd be the most able to emotionally handle it. I think there would be wistful moments when he sees Sam with Jack, and it would be 'torture' to an extent for him not being able to tell her anything, but I can see him finding a way to return to his normal friendship with Sam and his relationship with Ishta. Not unlike how he handled Drey'ac and Shau'nac I think, he fell in love with Shau'nac and always loved her, but was also able to love and have a relationship with Drey'ac. And Sam going off to Atlantis soon after Unending would help him do that I think.

So certain difficulties for Teal'c, yes, but not to the extent it'd become a major problem for him, IMO.

[AstraPerAspera]

Lol. I hardly think there's unanimity among shippers with regard to many of these points, although I think there are some key ones where it's quite obvious some of us differ in our interpretation of the characters.

The issue of short affairs and one-night stands, for example. From the characters that *I* see on screen, I just can't see this happening. Jack is a very monogamous individual, which we see (or...at least *I* see...) from Cold Lazarus, Brief Candle and Solitudes, and also to an extent from 100 Days as well. There's every indication that Jack *liked* being married, that being a husband and a father was an important part of who he was and that it was what grounded him while he went out and did some of those things he was compelled to do as part of his job. And I think he missed that...really, truly missed that when it was gone. He was horrified at discovering he'd slept with Kynthia, and he only slept with Laira because he'd finally reached the point where he truly believed his old life was gone and he was willing to try to begin a new one with her. If he'd been the type who just needed a little physical or emotional relief, he'd have slept with her at the very beginning of his time there. And even after he was rescued, he was willing to make room in his life for her, having made that physical and emotional commitment. So from this, I just can't see him on the prowl for one-night-stands or meaningless affairs. I think Kerry came at a time when he was trying to move on from Sam, seeing that she was now engaged, and that he felt there was a future with her.

As for Sam, at least in my reading of her character, I don't see her letting that part of herself out before Chimera. If she had, then the whole part with Pete wouldn't have been such the big deal it was for her...an effort to have a normal life. I think before that she really was focused on being the perfect soldier and the perfect scientist and the whole Sam as Woman part of her was shoved way into the background because it was an unnecessary component of who she thought she needed to be up until then. It's the only way, at least IMHO, that the conversation with "Jacob" in Grace makes any sense and why the whole relationship with Pete seems so...well, clumsy. And desperate. It just seems to me that someone who'd been sleeping with men on and off for the previous 7 years would have been much more at ease with herself in that situation and quite frankly, that's not what I see in those uncomfortable scenes.

So, no. I can't really see either of them going for the one-night-stand or the brief fling, even in all those years. I suppose it's unrealistic, in this day and age, to expect people to be celibate for long periods of time, but I guess it depends on the circumstances and the individuals, and under the circumstances and with the characters *I* see when I watch SG1, I guess I think it's possible. Even probable.

If it makes you feel any better, though, I don't like Martouf either. Definitely mainipulative and *definitely* (and unfairly) playing off of Sam's residual feelings from Jolinar to try to retain *something* of that relationship with her. Creepy.

Oh...and I don't think it was love at first sight, either. Attraction, maybe. Certainly in the recut CotG. But love? Nope. They earned each other's trust first. Then respect. After that, friendship. And only after that...love. So yeah. No cupid firing arrows in that briefing room, imho.

As for a few of the other points...well...some other time, perhaps....

[JenniferJF]

"Unpopular shipper opinions about Sam and Jack":

Ones I share:

3. I'm not a big fan of either of them retiring/resigning for the sake of their relationship. - though I could see them retiring/resigning finally for the sake of being tired and worn out and just done which isn't quite the same thing.

4. I see their ship as part of team interactions, not a separate thing. What's happening between them influences other team members and what's happening between, say, Jack and Teal'c influences S/J ship. - I think this is pretty much a truism. As part of 'a team', I think it has to be.

5. I like Laira and Anise/Freya. - I like Laira, I'm completely Anise nuetral.

6. I can't stand Martouf. - can anyone?

8. If I wasn't a die-hard S/J shipper I could definitely see Jack with Kerry and Sam with Barret. Definitely. I think if Jack wasn't in love with Sam he would have stayed with Kerry and who knows. As for Barret... I can see it, but he seemed a bit needy (though I think Sam tends to attract that).

9. Sam/Teal'c thing worked for me in UnendingI agree. We had a huge argument - yes, it was an argument because someone threatened the mods on us if we went on - over this on the appreciation thread. I think the idea Teal'c was deeply in love with Sam but willingly gave her up so she could go back in time to Jack even though he'd have to live with the knowledge of their relationship in that alternate timeline not only amazingly romantic and tragic but saying so much about Teal'c as a person and the depth of his relationship with both Sam and Jack. And I don't think it lessons the significance of Sam's love for Jack at all in our timeline that, separated from him for decades and having given up hope of ever getting him back she and Teal'c made what they could together.

11. I don't think theirs was "love at first sight". I don't think it was 'love', but I think there was definite physical attraction and a strong sense of "I enjoy interacting with this person"

12. I don't buy "Jack had been a male chauvinist before he met Sam and it was she who changed his opinion about women" argument. Does anyone think that? I got the impression from CotG that he really *didn't* care that she was a woman.

14. I don't think Jonas Hansen abused Sam in any way; physically, sexually or verbally. I think she got out of that relationship as soon as she started to feel uncomfortable. That's what I always assumed within canon. Fanon... on the other hand...

15. I think Jack and Sara had been happy together and he was still in love with her for a big chunk of season 1. Again, I think that's pretty clear from canon, too.

16. I don't believe that the age difference between Jack and Sam is so big that he's old enough to be her father. The way I see canon is: Jack was born in 1957, Sam in 1968. However personally I think Sam is around Daniel's age, born in 1965. So their age difference is 11 years in canon, 8 in my world. Even 11 years isn't 'old enough to be her father'.

I do agree with everything APA said (big surprise) about why I strongly disagree with the idea that Sam and Jack (but especially Jack) had one-night stands throughout the the show. I also base this on Jack's reaction in Sight Unseen when the gas station attendant suggests Jack's truck is a babe magnet and to Jack's reaction in Chimera when Sam says, "You know how it is" when talking about how she thought Pete might have been able to understand the stress of not knowing things. There's something vaguely evasive in his answer which makes me think he's hiding the idea he's not been seriously dating.

This idea of Jack's underlying monogamous nature (and it's also why I really think he did still love Sara throughout S1) is also why I do think he would marry Sam sooner than later, and why I do see him as the 'marrying type'. As APA said, I think he *liked* being married and, given Sam's greatest fear is of being left by love, I think marriage would have been helpful in calming those fears, as well. Like APA said, though, I think it's an underlying difference in interpretation of the characters.

[EvenstarSRV]

6. I can't stand Martouf. - can anyone?

Me. But we've been over that in the JM/TDYK discussion. Did he long for what was left of Jolinar in Sam, sure, but I can't really hold it against the guy for wanting to hold onto what little he had left of someone who was essentially his soul mate for decades. But IMHO, he rather quickly came to respect Sam's feelings on the matter and didn't pressure her on the subject.

I do agree with everything APA said (big surprise) about why I strongly disagree with the idea that Sam and Jack (but especially Jack) had one-night stands throughout the the show. I also base this on Jack's reaction in Sight Unseen when the gas station attendant suggests Jack's truck is a babe magnet and to Jack's reaction in Chimera when Sam says, "You know how it is" when talking about how she thought Pete might have been able to understand the stress of not knowing things. There's something vaguely evasive in his answer which makes me think he's hiding the idea he's not been seriously dating.

I also don't see Sam having one night stands or seriously dating (before Pete anyways), but I can see her kinda sporadically casually dating. Had the Aschen situation not changed, I could see Sam taking Joe up on his offer of dinner in 2001, but then awkwardly turning down a second or subsequent dates and settling for being friends. So not that she's actively looking for dates, but more that every once in a while she'd get asked out and would go on one or two dates, but then would end it before the relationship could really go anywhere. And so with Pete, she seemed rather comfortable with the casual dating part in early Chimera, and the awkwardness came when things progressed beyond that point later on.

Jack I also don't see seriously dating or having one-night stands, and I think even with Kerry he wasn't serious (unlike Sam with Pete). But I haven't really made up my mind as to whether he casually dated. I'm inclined to think no, but then he did seemed rather comfortable with Kerry in Threads.

[Rachel500]

Sorry I'm so late to reply, but RL got in the way.

<snip>.

And to put things straight, I've never said a word about Daniel and Teal'c; my argument was about Sam and Barret, who was Sam's potential love interest.(Jack jealous about Danny or T is just so wrong on so many levels) But anyway...how does agreeing to disagree work for you?

Possibly I ignored Barrett as Sam has never spent any time with Barrett outside of a work situation and has always turned down his attempts to start a relationship - she even explicitly said in Insiders that they were only friends. Plus Barrett isn't stationed in the Springs; they don't see each other regularly. I would probably say they are "work friends" as opposed to personal friends who see each other socially. So again, it's a totally different situation to the one proposed for Jack and Kerry where they would be friends seeing each other regularly and both in Washington. Sam's relationship with Barrett is one in which Jack wouldn't have any reason to be insecure given Sam's complete disinterest in Barrett romantically and lack of previous romantic relationship; the same cannot be said the other way around.

However, I will say I can see Jack and Kerry ending up in something of a similar relationship as Sam and Barrett - ie. work friends who get along great in a work environment, maybe go for a coffee or lunch together, but who don't see each other socially.

So, yeah: I guess agreeing to disagree works for me.

Personally, I enjoy your differing points of view. The world would be a very boring place if we all agreed.

On your list:

1. I don't want them to get married. Nor do I see them wanting to get married.
Like Jenn and APA, I can see them both wanting to be married. However, I don't think they are in canon terms and I don't think it necessarily matters.

2. No kids. I just can't see them having children.
Despite the occasional hint of Sam ending up pregnant in my fanfics (I think I've done that twice) - me either.

3. I'm not a big fan of either of them retiring/resigning for the sake of their relationship.
I can see Jack contemplating retirement - not just for his relationship with Sam but because he feels he's done his bit - particularly after the end of S8 and again after the Ori thing is sorted but it never actually happening because he's just too important and he enjoys it too much.

4. I see their ship as part of team interactions, not a separate thing. What's happening between them influences other team members and what's happening between, say, Jack and Teal'c influences S/J ship.
I agree

5. I like Laira and Anise/Freya.
I like the Laira who is a leader of her people and a steadfast friend who flirts with Jack; I don't like the Laira that wants a baby, throws his clothes out and hesitates to tell him about his radio.

Anise/Freya I like as a character but never saw her with Jack: I wouldn't have minded a Anise/Freya/Daniel storyline.

6. I can't stand Martouf.
Neither can I


7. I used to like Orlin but after reading a few posts (made by a guy!) explaining why Orlin's behaviour was creepy and inexcusable I tend to agree with that poster's reasoning.
I like Orlin and his behaviour in following Sam home and spying on her was creepy; however, he is an alien who had been alone a very long time - and he does redeem himself in the end by saving Sam and the team on Velona.

8. If I wasn't a die-hard S/J shipper I could definitely see Jack with Kerry and Sam with Barret.
I could see Jack and Kerry ending up together if Sam hadn't been in the picture. I can't see Sam with Barrett given her declared disinterest in him as anything other than a friend - however, if Jack wasn't around at all, I can see him as a potential other for her too

9. Sam/Teal'c thing worked for me in Unending (I am very uncomfortable with its implications and consequences in normal timeline though)
Sam/Teal'c doesn't work for me in Unending because of the implications and consequences for Teal'c in the normal timeline.

10. I don't think either Sam or Jack stayed celibate for 8 years. I can see them having one night stands/short affairs off-screen.
I tend to think Sam had a couple of "dates" and was open to dating in S1 and S5 but I don't think they progressed to the bedroom (as others have said I don't think she would have been as clumsy or awkward with Pete if they had).

I tend to think Jack had a short fling with someone in S5 when he was making an effort to step back from Sam; it failed miserably and he just didn't bother beyond that until Sam got engaged and had in his eyes moved on.

11. I don't think theirs was "love at first sight".
I agree : attraction - friendship - love for me.

12. I don't buy "Jack had been a male chauvinist before he met Sam and it was she who changed his opinion about women" argument.
Really? Someone argues that? I agree with you: Jack wasn't a chauvinist.

13. As recently discussed, I do believe Sam was quite happy with her job and friends and without a guy for the first 5-6 seasons.
I'll qualify that and say Sam was happy with her job/friends and without a guy S1-S3; she was happy with her job/friends and knowing the guy she loved, loved her S4; she was resigned to not having said guy and content with her life otherwise in S5 and S6 for me.

14. I don't think Jonas Hansen abused Sam in any way; physically, sexually or verbally. I think she got out of that relationship as soon as she started to feel uncomfortable.
I think Sam was naive and controlled by Hansen in their relationship for longer than she would want to admit, but she did get out.

15. I think Jack and Sara had been happy together and he was still in love with her for a big chunk of season 1.
I think Jack and Sara had been happy together until Charlie's death and that a part of Jack will always love Sara.

16. I don't believe that the age difference between Jack and Sam is so big that he's old enough to be her father.
Me either

17. I can see Jack and Kerry becoming friends.
Agreeing to disagree, lol.

And on your other points:

Spoiler:

1. I like Jaffa stories.
I'm not a fan of them but I do love Bra'tac

2. I like Tok'ra stories.
Me too

3. I have allergic reaction to the last 2 seasons of the show.
I think post Avalon, the first half os S9 is the worst patch in the show's history; I like the end of S9 and the majority of S10.

4. I like Jack as general. I think it suits him, he deserves it and it works for his character.
Me too.

5. I don't see any SG-1 team member as a spotless hero. They all have faults and make mistakes.
Me too.

6. I'm sure that Jack and Teal'c did some horrible things serving their country/god. Yes, I think they might have been forced to kill women and children too.
Me too.

7. I don't think Sam has ever been SGC's 2IC. (that's bound to be very unpopular)
Me too but she has in canon temporarily been in charge of the SGC on 2 occasions (SG1's Uninvited and SGA's Enemy at the Gate).

8. I love Jonas Quinn.
Me too.

9. I like Jonas as much as season 1-6 Daniel and definitely much more than season 7-10 Daniel.
I like both of them throughout all seasons.

10. While I'm certain Jack and Daniel are close friends I don't see them as best friends ever.
I do think Jack and Daniel share a bond that transcends SG1 because of their experience on Abydos.

11. I think Teal'c is Jack's best friend. Certainly the most trusted friend.
I think Teal'c, Daniel and Sam are all Jack's best friends just as they are all the others.

12. I believe Jack got over Charlie's death (as much as it is possible to get over your child's death) and doesn't torture himself over it every.single.day.
I don't think Jack ever got over Charlie's death. I don't think a parent ever does get over the death of a child. But I think as Jack said himself he can sometimes "forget".

13. I love/like some really unpopular episodes, like Hathor, Tin Man, One False Step, 100 days etc.
I love Hathor myself but story preferences are individual

14. I don't like The Ancients storyline. At first it was boring, then in the later seasons it became ridiculous and far too important.
I think the set-up was great but they ran out of time to tell it properly in regards to the Ori.

15. I don't like some very popular episodes, like Lifeboat or The Quest.
I'm not a fan of Lifeboat and while I love the second part of the Quest, I hated the first.

16. Except for "Prometheus" I hate all Earth ships with passion.
I think the Earth ships did divert attention from the Stargate in story-telling but I wouldn't say I hate them.

17. I'm allergic to overuse of Asgard beams.
Me too.

18. I think we haven't done anything yet to deserve being called "The Fifth Race"
I think we got the Asgard tech because they wanted to leave their legacy behind - not because we deserved it as a race.

[JenniferJF]

Me. But we've been over that in the JM/TDYK discussion. Did he long for what was left of Jolinar in Sam, sure, but I can't really hold it against the guy for wanting to hold onto what little he had left of someone who was essentially his soul mate for decades. But IMHO, he rather quickly came to respect Sam's feelings on the matter and didn't pressure her on the subject.

Oh, I'm actually not concerned about the way he treated Sam over the whole Jolinar thing. I just don't like him. The character is just so... *bleh*. I think it's more a general Tok'ra thing, possibly, than his unique personality as an individual. He's just so emotionally flat (really) and passive. Though, tbh, while many of the Tok'ra are like that, I find Lantash inside the lieutenant really isn't, so I suspect it's more a choice of host than anything (and don't they mention Taur'i hosts are problematic because they're spirits weren't broken - or something to that effect - in Death Knell?) Because I think even Sam points out they're very emotional, they just don't show it much.

So, I guess it comes down to I really don't like Martouf as an individual. He's sort of passive and whiny. IMHO, of course.

[Cagranosalis]

Majority?! Hon, it's me against the whole fandom! Or at least its S/J shipper part!

But then, I know my views about the show as a whole, its characters and especially S/J ship aren't very popular. Why change the habit of a lifetime? I'll just add Jack/Kerry friendship to my list of "Unpopular shipper opinions about Sam and Jack":

Great list you posted, and to make you feel a bit, er, better, I will just take your points and do what everyone else had and add my thoughts:

1. I don't want them to get married. Nor do I see them wanting to get married.
I can see them getting married somewhere down the line. I don't think - as some do - that it's something they did straight away or fairly soon after getting together. It happens/happened at some point after the normal period of courtship most people observe.
I don't, however, want to see the wedding. No, not really. A flash of a ring on their fingers and a reference to "my wife/husband" is enough for me.

2. No kids. I just can't see them having children.
Me neither. And I definitely don't want to see that! (my aversion to baby fics extends to baby stories in general. )

3. I'm not a big fan of either of them retiring/resigning for the sake of their relationship.
Well, they didn't retire/resign and they are together (in my little world anyway) so, for me, that settles that discussion.
However I do think that Jack had reached the point at the end of S8 where he would have done so had it been the only way forward for them.

4. I see their ship as part of team interactions, not a separate thing. What's happening between them influences other team members and what's happening between, say, Jack and Teal'c influences S/J ship.
Well I think that makes sense. No relationship is lived completely inside a bubble. Outside influences will always play a part.

5. I like Laira and Anise/Freya.
Yes, so do I.


6. I can't stand Martouf.
I thought he was a bit of a lovesick puppy half the time and I felt sorry for him. I wasn't desperately sad when he died.

7. I used to like Orlin but after reading a few posts (made by a guy!) explaining why Orlin's behaviour was creepy and inexcusable I tend to agree with that poster's reasoning.
Orlin was the one who creeped me out the most of all of them. He made me feel uncomfortable.

8. If I wasn't a die-hard S/J shipper I could definitely see Jack with Kerry and Sam with Barret.
I think they would have been really good together. I would have preferred her to have a relationship with him than with Pete actually - except I like him and there would have been less fist pumping when she dumped him.

9. Sam/Teal'c thing worked for me in Unending (I am very uncomfortable with its implications and consequences in normal timeline though)
The Sam/Teal'c thing - if you are referring to the romantic aspect of it - simply didn't exist in canon; it was a throw away line in a commentary and nothing more. However if you refer to the general friendship then yes, to me it makes sense that Sam would, in grief, turn to Teal'c for friendship/comfort/support in the situation they found themselves in in Unending.

10. I don't think either Sam or Jack stayed celibate for 8 years. I can see them having one night stands/short affairs off-screen.
I really don't see either of them - Jack in particualr - being the one night stand type. I think they (at least Sam) had dates in that time but not sexual realtionships; at least not casual ones. In short, what APA said.


11. I don't think theirs was "love at first sight".
No, neither do I. I don't even see any romantic feelings there until a good couple of seasons in.

12. I don't buy "Jack had been a male chauvinist before he met Sam and it was she who changed his opinion about women" argument.
No. But then I don't think it's ever implied he is a chauvanist and he freely admitted he liked women.

13. As recently discussed, I do believe Sam was quite happy with her job and friends and without a guy for the first 5-6 seasons.
For the most part, I think so too. There were probably moments when she wanted more but I don't think she missed having a social / love life. Or, at least, I don't think she realised she missed it.

14. I don't think Jonas Hansen abused Sam in any way; physically, sexually or verbally. I think she got out of that relationship as soon as she started to feel uncomfortable.
Physical and sexual abuse - no. Verbally? Well yes I could see that. I've seen supposedly strong, smart, capable women be brought down by a clever, cunning, controlling man before now, and I've seen them unable to "see" what's happening until they get out of the relationship. I could see Sam dodging that bullet.

15. I think Jack and Sara had been happy together and he was still in love with her for a big chunk of season 1.
I think he was in love with her for a big chunk of seasons 1 through to 8 and probably beyond to a certain extent.

16. I don't believe that the age difference between Jack and Sam is so big that he's old enough to be her father. The way I see canon is: Jack was born in 1957, Sam in 1968. However personally I think Sam is around Daniel's age, born in 1965. So their age difference is 11 years in canon, 8 in my world.
I don't think it matters if he is! *Says she whose husband is 21 years older than her.*

17. I can see Jack and Kerry becoming friends.
Yes I can too, in a casual aquaintance sort or way. I mean, I think they'd be cordial to each other but I can't see them inviting each other to dinner parties or weddings or having lunch together. But I do think Jack's the kind of guy who would either cut ties completely with an ex, or have a good/friendly realtionship with them.


And as for your unpopular list...

Spoiler:

1. I like Jaffa stories.
NO I really don't. They just bore me. I think Alleigance and Reckoning are the only two that I like.

2. I like Tok'ra stories.
Ah now those I like.

4. I like Jack as general. I think it suits him, he deserves it and it works for his character.
That's an unpopular opinion? Not to me it isn't.

5. I don't see any SG-1 team member as a spotless hero. They all have faults and make mistakes.
Yes, I think thaat's very true. And part of the reason I love them as a team is because the characters are real with faults and all.

7. I don't think Sam has ever been SGC's 2IC. (that's bound to be very unpopular)
Well based on the fact that she's in charge of the SGC temporarily at the time of SGA's Enemy At The Gate I would say evidence suggests otherwise. I don't think she was at the time Jack was I/C there, or during S9 or S10 though.

8. I love Jonas Quinn.
Who doesn't!


10. While I'm certain Jack and Daniel are close friends I don't see them as best friends ever.
I think Daniel's line in Continuum "closest thing to a best friend" sums it up.

11. I think Teal'c is Jack's best friend. Certainly the most trusted friend.
Teal'c looks at Jack like a brother. I think Jack probably feels the same way about Teal'c.

12. I believe Jack got over Charlie's death (as much as it is possible to get over your child's death) and doesn't torture himself over it every.single.day.
While I agree that he doesn't torture himself with it every day, I don't think he ever got over it. I don't think you ever can get over the loss of a child. I think it's still a very touchy subject for him and something he deals with through denial / not taalking/thinking about it rather than actively working through his grief. I don't think he has unresolved grief so to speak but I don't think he ever really lets himself grieve.

13. I love/like some really unpopular episodes, like Hathor, Tin Man, One False Step, 100 days etc.
I love A Hundred Days.

14. I don't like The Ancients storyline. At first it was boring, then in the later seasons it became ridiculous and far too important.
I don't hate them, don't love them. Lost City is one of my favourite ever episodes but prior to that, all the ascended stuff was waffly and a bit "huh?" to me. And after actually - hence why Threads is often called The Waffle episode. What I really hated was the whole Merlin / Ori mythology in the last two seasons for oh so many reasons.


16. Except for "Prometheus" I hate all Earth ships with passion.
Well I like The Hammond! At least I like her commander.

Phew!

Ahem, yes, well. I don't think your views are that unpopular.







Someone was asking a few pages ago about the continuing rewatch schedule and, I have to confess, I haven't got around to organising it at all. I was thinking we'd probably start after Easter - Mid/late April if I get enough people wanting to participate.
So if you are interested in doing any of the reviews for season 5 can you PM me with:

How many episodes you are prepared to do?
Maximum frequency(i.e. one per week etc.)
Any you particularly prefer doing?
Any you particularly want to avoid?

I need a minimum of four participants to make it worth while doing the reviews. If I don't get that then I'll just post a synopsis for each one and let you at it.

[EvenstarSRV]

Oh, I'm actually not concerned about the way he treated Sam over the whole Jolinar thing. I just don't like him. The character is just so... *bleh*. I think it's more a general Tok'ra thing, possibly, than his unique personality as an individual. He's just so emotionally flat (really) and passive. Though, tbh, while many of the Tok'ra are like that, I find Lantash inside the lieutenant really isn't, so I suspect it's more a choice of host than anything (and don't they mention Taur'i hosts are problematic because they're spirits weren't broken - or something to that effect - in Death Knell?) Because I think even Sam points out they're very emotional, they just don't show it much.

So, I guess it comes down to I really don't like Martouf as an individual. He's sort of passive and whiny. IMHO, of course.

It's all good, I know I'm probably the only one here who likes the guy. I liked his calmness actually, it came across as kinda zen to me rather than emotional flatness. And I thought it was interesting to see a host with that kind of personality with the more forceful Lantash symbiote, kinda like the contrast with Selmak and Jacob though we didn't get to see as much of it. Plus I just adored the gentle way he talked Sam through dealing with her feelings about Jolinar in the Tok'ra. But as always, happy to agree to disagree.