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**JenniferJF** · 27 February 2010, 04:06 AM

Originally posted by UhSir View Post

Jack saying to her that she needs to "get a life" well... can someone tell me how many times he's actually said that to her up to this point because I can only remember one time. And that time he said, "Didn't I order you to get a life?" which is clearly said in jest because of the "Didn't I order you" part, not a criticism of her life choices. Or are we counting the implied times, such as the fishing invitations? Up to this point she's not offended or feeling attacked by these. She enjoys the attention but she's decided that it's best for her to focus in a different, "safer" direction right now.

Yes, I'm not simply referring to direct times, but times he talks about her needing 'fun' (like Learning Curve) or her needing to go on leave, or her being there so early (Other Side) And I agree that none of this is really conscious, and it's not *Sam* directed in any way. When I say upset I don't necessarily mean at Sam herself, but simply frustrated at the universe in general that he can't have more of her attention.

Originally posted by UhSir View Post

Sam is not swayed by what anyone else, including Jack, thinks about what she chooses to do on her free time. Two or three years from this time she'll think about it and start reacting, and then she's reacting more to her personal emotions than to the outside forces that are stimulating them. But that's the future. Right now she's content with burying herself in her work.

I disagree with this completely, but that's what discussions are for

. I think the entire point of the conversation she has with 'Jacob' in her mind in Grace is Sam's realization that, deep down, she *isn't* happy. I don't think that's a new thing, but 'Jacob's' entire point (actually, both Jacob's, the mental one now and the real one later) is that she's been using work and regulations and being an officer to protect herself from her fears and to avoid 'getting a life' but that, deep down, she really wants and needs one:

Spoiler:

I'm nearly certain Jacob isn't an outside influence, but is Sam's own subconscious speaking to her, and from the way 'he' says it, I don't think it's a *new* development, but that it's been true all along. She's just never realized it before. Which is why I absolutely don't think, in The Light, she's got the right balance of life and work which works for her then. She only *thinks* she does.

EDIT: Well, I guess technically you're right in saying she's 'content'. But I think the point is, a person shouldn't merely be 'content' but should strive for something better.

**Nynaeve506** · 27 February 2010, 04:39 AM

I don't know of any height requirements for cadets... O.o I do know my friend Tatum who is enlisted is fairly short (probably Hailey tall).

I actually liked the character of Hailey - maybe I sympathized with her a little because although I didn't have a chip on my shoulder, I often found myself butting heads with teachers because I wanted MORE than what they were giving me. I think they sorely underused Hailey's character in the series - I've always thought of her as a logical replacement for Sam if she really is as smart as they say she is.

Shippy wise - no there's no overt ship in this episode, but I think Sam explaining Jack's actions demonstrates how in tune the two of them are. And I don't know, but I have to think that somewhere in there her grasp of Jack's willingness to sacrifice has some little root in that confession he made in D&C - that's he'd rather die himself than lose Carter. Oh, Jack would most certainly choose himself over his team, but he'd even MORE certainly choose himself over Carter.

**JenniferJF** · 27 February 2010, 04:46 AM

Originally posted by josiane View Post

Of course there's another aspect to Sam's acceptance of Jack's decision, because yet again he is choosing to sacrifice himself in order to save the rest of the team. She's clearly not happy, and concerned that he's putting himself in danger, but she's resigned because she knows that for him, that's the only choice he could make, and that he couldn't live with the alternative.

I also find it a significant reminder that Sam fully realizes that Jack is willing to sacrifice himself for anyone on his team - in fact, for anyone he feels responsible for. It's not just *her* he's willing to die for, but taking responsibility for others and protecting them is part of who he *is*. I'd argue, as many of you know who've heard me argue it before, that this is in fact one of the things which she loves about him and that her desire for this in a partner goes back to her fear of being left by those she loves because, even if he didn't love her, Jack is rock-solid dependable and will always be there.

I think it's also one of the reasons, by S7, that she is no longer certain he loves her - that he still cares 'more than he's supposed to'. She knows he'd do anything to save anyone on his team, not just her, and she hasn't seen any of the despair or desperation the audience (or Teal'c

) has which shows it's *still* more personal when it's Sam than when it's anyone else.

And yes, I do find it impossible to discuss just one episode at a time

**Cagranosalis** · 27 February 2010, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post

On a trivia note, this is the first time we see Bill Lee.

I remember seeing him and thinking "Chuck Burkes!" (*ahem* a charater he played in the The X Files that was actually not dissilimar to Bill Lee).

Great review Josi. I like this episode; nothing more. Hailey does annoy me slightly here becuase she does have this massive chip on both shoulders and it just seems there's no real reason for it. There's a fairly brief reference to the fact she's having to live up to Sam's reputation in there but I don't think that is ever really picked up on and fleshed out enough - possibly becuase it would have detracted from the episode but it would have been nice to have seen more of Hailey in general and have that explored.

On the Sam/Jack front, everything I see here is rather more friendship and comradeship that romantic. The scene between them at the gate is just lovely though and a real testement to how comfortabe they are with each other and their current relationship. I almost feel like, by this point, they've done such a great job of repressing their emotions they've actually forgotten there's this "thing" between them bubbling underneath.
In general I like the way Season 4 does that; we have the big ship heavy episodes / moments and then it pulls back, shows us why they can't be together - no not the military thing (because, like others I do think that's an excuse and not a reason) but the friendship they would risk if they became lovers and, for some reason, things didn't work out.

**JenniferJF** · 27 February 2010, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by Cagranosalis View Post

In general I like the way Season 4 does that; we have the big ship heavy episodes / moments and then it pulls back, shows us why they can't be together - no not the military thing (because, like others I do think that's an excuse and not a reason) but the friendship they would risk if they became lovers and, for some reason, things didn't work out.

I agree with you that simply the fact they'd be risking their friendship (and giving up their professional relationship, as well, to have a personal one) is a huge part of why they don't get together. Unlike 'normal' couples, being in the military doesn't mean they can't date, but they can't date *and* maintain the relationship they do have. They literally have to sacrifice working together to 'be' together. It's an all or nothing more obvious than it is for most couples. And I think that's also one of the big reasons why, by Threads, they're finally able to make that leap. Effectively, with Sam dating Pete and Jack's promotion, they get to a point where, because of the tension over Pete, they're losing their *friendship* - that easy comraderie which they were trying to protect in the first place, anyway and because of his promotion, they're already not working together so, by that point, they really have little left to lose.

**Cagranosalis** · 27 February 2010, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post

And I think that's also one of the big reasons why, by Threads, they're finally able to make that leap. Effectively, with Sam dating Pete and Jack's promotion, they get to a point where, because of the tension over Pete, they're losing their *friendship* - that easy comraderie which they were trying to protect in the first place, anyway and because of his promotion, they're already not working together so, by that point, they really have little left to lose.

Yes, exactly! I have always felt that, regardless of what happened after Threads they had reached a point where their personal issues were affecting their ability to work together. Almost, by a stroke of irony, not being together was causing problems with their working relationship - which turns the whole point of the regulations on their head.
Jack was clearly struggling to maintain impartiality where SG-1 (in general) and Sam (in particular) were concerned, and he was clearly, pretty miserable not having anything he wanted. He hated sitting behind that desk, hated seeing Sam moving on, hated the fact that he wanted to be happy for her but couldn't be... even if she'd stuck with Pete and married him, Jack could not have continued to be her CO and I don't think she could have continued to have him there either.

**JenniferJF** · 27 February 2010, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by Cagranosalis View Post

Yes, exactly! I have always felt that, regardless of what happened after Threads they had reached a point where their personal issues were affecting their ability to work together. Almost, by a stroke of irony, not being together was causing problems with their working relationship - which turns the whole point of the regulations on their head.

Which is why, in reality, the regs are about *emotions* and not what one does about them, and why my hubs gets so upset watching D&C. Sam and Jack *should* have been separated back there in D&C not simply for their own good, but the good of the military.

It's also why I get such a kick out of seeing Jack post S8. He's so much more serious and, IMHO, obviously capable than he acted pre S9. Since I do think they got together during Threads, I think this may be the final irony - that rather than damaging his ability to be a good officer, being with Sam actually made him a better one.

**EvenstarSRV** · 27 February 2010, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post

He's not *really* bitter, and he is happy she's happy, but he does mention the idea she should 'get a life' an awful lot for someone who really does think she's found a healthy balance between the two.
It's not that it has to be either or, but I do think that Sam *herself* finally realizes she doesn't have a proper balance. In fact, I think that's the major point of what she learns in the episode Grace. And I agree, it's not an either or but has to be the balance which is the most fulfilling to Sam as a unique individual, but I think the major point of Grace - and what Jacob later says in reality to Sam as he's dying - is that she hasn't had a proper balance between work and her personal lif - that she's been sacrificing *who* she is for *what* she is, and that she needs to find that balance in order to be totally happy and satisfied.

I agree, Sam hasn't yet found a good balance between her work/career and her personal life, and Grace is when she really begins to reassess her priorities in regards to that. And while I feel that Jack encourages Sam to find some outlet outside of work, IMO it's for her sake so she doesn't get burned out, which he mentions in Ascension. He's been at this stuff longer than she has and wants to make sure she takes care of herself and paces herself.

The part I don't get, is that Jack sees Sam's choice of work/career as a denial of him or their personal relationship. They may have feelings for each other, but he does not have any claim or rights on how she chooses to spend her downtime. So he may encourage her to relax more and may be disappointed when she doesn't, but I just don't see that translating into any kind of underlying bitterness or rejection of their personal relationship. I mean, they're still good friends and teammates even if she's doesn't choose to go fishing with him.

And esp because again, at this point in the series a romantic relationship between him and Sam is just not a possibility, the most they can hope for at this time is friends, so why would they both not be content with that? Yes, ideally one should try to be more than just content with one's life, but when something more is not a possibility, shouldn't one enjoy what one does have instead of wasting time regretting what one doesn't? Jack doesn't doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who is so needy that Sam not choosing him would translate into him feeling rejected or denied by her. That's the part I'm not getting, the jealous/bitter/feeling rejected interpretation of Jack's feelings, not that Sam needs better balance in her life.

**JenniferJF** · 28 February 2010, 04:13 AM

Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View Post

The part I don't get, is that Jack sees Sam's choice of work/career as a denial of him or their personal relationship. They may have feelings for each other, but he does not have any claim or rights on how she chooses to spend her downtime. So he may encourage her to relax more and may be disappointed when she doesn't, but I just don't see that translating into any kind of underlying bitterness or rejection of their personal relationship. I mean, they're still good friends and teammates even if she's doesn't choose to go fishing with him.

I don't think I was clear enough, probably. I don't really think Jack is bitter or disappointed at *Sam* herself, and I don't even think he's really that way consciously. I think it's part of his overall sort of cynicism and general disappointment at life-the-universe-and-everything which goes back to Charlie's death and Sara's loss and which I think is often concealed beneath his humorous facade. So, I think his joking humor there over the bet is meant to conceal the fact he really is hurting - not just in this instance but in general - over the fact he and Sam can't have more and her devotion to her work and unwillingness to relax is related to this, so it's sort of like salt on the wound. And he uses humor to conceal that pain. Which doesn't even mean he's not *really* enjoying their interaction - because I do think he'd rather spend *any* time with her than none at all.

It's just I do think there's that underlying often self-defacing humorous cynicism about Jack a lot of the time which is related to his pain and disappointment at life in general - which his not being able to have Sam is simply a part of - and I think we're seeing glimpses of it in that scene with Sam at the beginning of The Light.

EDIT: In other words, you can be hurt by something even if, rationally, you understand why it has to be that way and why it's not anyone's fault it's happening. It just *hurts*. That's how I see Jack here. Sam's devotion to her work and science bothers him, not only because I do think he realizes it's not really healthy for her, but because it is a reminder of why he can't have her, either. And that latter reason, really, I don't think he's even consciously aware of.

**EvenstarSRV** · 28 February 2010, 05:48 AM

Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post

I don't think I was clear enough, probably. I don't really think Jack is bitter or disappointed at *Sam* herself, and I don't even think he's really that way consciously. I think it's part of his overall sort of cynicism and general disappointment at life-the-universe-and-everything which goes back to Charlie's death and Sara's loss and which I think is often concealed beneath his humorous facade. So, I think his joking humor there over the bet is meant to conceal the fact he really is hurting - not just in this instance but in general - over the fact he and Sam can't have more and her devotion to her work and unwillingness to relax is related to this, so it's sort of like salt on the wound. And he uses humor to conceal that pain. Which doesn't even mean he's not *really* enjoying their interaction - because I do think he'd rather spend *any* time with her than none at all.

See, that's the connection I don't get. If Jack really wanted more with Sam at this point, all he'd really have to do is retire or get himself or Sam reassigned and, as far as I understand the regs, they'd be free to pursue a relationship. Their situation, IMO, has absolutely nothing to do with Sam's devotion to her work and everything to do with their war against the Goa'uld and both of their unwillingness to break-up SG-1 because together they have the best chance of winning. So it's *both* of their loyalty/devotion to their team/SGC/Earth that keeps them from doing anything at this point, not Sam's devotion to her science/work, IMHO.

And it seems to me that playing with her science/doohickeys is how Sam relaxes, it's what she does for fun and something she absolutely loves doing. It doesn't sound like fun or relaxing to Jack, but it works for her just as fishing works for Jack, and mediation works for Teal'c and probably research or reading works for Daniel. I think it takes Jack a while to get this about Sam, and while he still doesn't understand it, IMO he comes to respect it.

And a lot of this seems to stem from very different interpretations of Jack's character. While he has obviously experienced much pain, disappointment, and tragedy in his life, IMO he's been able to make peace with a lot of that and now takes what enjoyment he can from what life gives him. So to me, his humor is his way of enjoying life, not to just conceal his pain/disappointment with life. It's like he says in Threads, 'Let's not dwell.' He doesn't forget the pain/disappointment, but IMO he's gotten to a point where he realizes the uselessness in wasting time or energy on regrets. Life's too short, take what joy you can get from life and don't dwell on the stuff you can't control. Instead of banging on the door to that room when it's locked and neither of them has the key, why not lean against it and chat, smile, laugh, and enjoy what you do have.

**JenniferJF** · 28 February 2010, 06:02 AM

Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View Post

And a lot of this seems to stem from very different interpretations of Jack's character. While he has obviously experienced much pain, disappointment, and tragedy in his life, IMO he's been able to make peace with a lot of that and now takes what enjoyment he can from what life gives him. So to me, his humor is his way of enjoying life, not to just conceal his pain/disappointment with life. It's like he says in Threads, 'Let's not dwell.' He doesn't forget the pain/disappointment, but IMO he's gotten to a point where he realizes the uselessness in wasting time or energy on regrets. Life's too short, take what joy you can get from life and don't dwell on the stuff you can't control. Instead of banging on the door to that room when it's locked and neither of them has the key, why not lean against it and chat, smile, laugh, and enjoy what you do have.

Right... but he says that *after* Threads which, IMHO, makes all the difference in the world. Because I do believe it's during Threads when he finally realizes he's got to let go of the baggage of his past - that, in fact, in attempting to avoid pain and loss he has, in fact, been causing it. So that 'lets not dwell' is, in fact, a Very Recent lesson learned and was, in fact, the lesson he had to learn before he and Sam could go fishing (by which I mean, have a personal relationship which fishing IMHO represented).

And you're right, it's a very different interpretation of Jack's character. I don't think he *has* healed from Charlie's death and Sara's loss and that the reason he's willing to 'leave it in the room' after D&C isn't because of the regs or the war on the Goa'uld but because, as he says in WoO, he can't ever go through losing someone he loved again like he did with Charlie. And I think all his joking et al is in large part meant to hide his continued pain. Frankly, the right thing to do - for the military and the war on the Goa'uld, in D&C would have been for Sam and Jack to admit they were too close emotionally to remain on the same team and that they needed to be split up. As D&C proved (and I think the Entity proved again), the emotions themselves were effecting their judgement and so the right thing to do would have been to split up and go on different teams. And I think they didn't not because they were needed on the same team in the fight (there are lots of teams and I can't buy that they *had* to be on the same team for the good of the planet) but because they were unwilling to risk the working relationship and friendship they did have on a possible personal romantic relationship they were both afraid of for various reasons.

And there are a lot of moments on the show which back this theory up, not only the one on WoO I mentioned, but, as an example, I believe that's the meaning of Jack's answering Sam's question in Affinity with "I wouldn't be here" (they'd have lost their professional relationship). And I think that's why Jacob in her hallucination in Grace doesn't even bring up the regs but talks about Sam's fears keeping her from happiness. The regs were a *part* of Sam's issues, because they relate to her playing the role of Perfect Officer to meet Jacob's expectations, but there weren't the major one. I think the hallucination shows it was her fears that were the first obstacle.

But, again, different interpretations and the beautiful thing about this show (and any good storytelling) is that, in showing us the characters and their relationships so subtly, so much is left up to the interpretation of the audience. Or, IOW, there is no right answer so at the end of the day, it's simply two different interpretations, like you said and we're going to have to agree to disagree

**UhSir** · 28 February 2010, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post

Yes, I'm not simply referring to direct times, but times he talks about her needing 'fun' (like Learning Curve) or her needing to go on leave, or her being there so early (Other Side) And I agree that none of this is really conscious, and it's not *Sam* directed in any way. When I say upset I don't necessarily mean at Sam herself, but simply frustrated at the universe in general that he can't have more of her attention.

Ah, well, for me these are simply times where Jack is expressing a difference in their personalities as well as offering a bit of wisdom gained from experience. I don't see any frustration from Jack or Sam, with regard to their relationship, at this point.

Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post

Originally posted by UhSir View Post

Sam is not swayed by what anyone else, including Jack, thinks about what she chooses to do on her free time. Two or three years from this time she'll think about it and start reacting, and then she's reacting more to her personal emotions than to the outside forces that are stimulating them. But that's the future. Right now she's content with burying herself in her work.

I disagree with this completely, but that's what discussions are for

. I think the entire point of the conversation she has with 'Jacob' in her mind in Grace is Sam's realization that, deep down, she *isn't* happy. I don't think that's a new thing, but 'Jacob's' entire point (actually, both Jacob's, the mental one now and the real one later) is that she's been using work and regulations and being an officer to protect herself from her fears and to avoid 'getting a life' but that, deep down, she really wants and needs one:

Spoiler:

I'm nearly certain Jacob isn't an outside influence, but is Sam's own subconscious speaking to her, and from the way 'he' says it, I don't think it's a *new* development, but that it's been true all along. She's just never realized it before.

It sounds like you are agreeing with me. Unless I'm misreading, which I know I do more often than I like.

Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post

Which is why I absolutely don't think, in The Light, she's got the right balance of life and work which works for her then. She only *thinks* she does.

EDIT: Well, I guess technically you're right in saying she's 'content'. But I think the point is, a person shouldn't merely be 'content' but should strive for something better.

I'm not trying to say either of us is right or wrong. I'm only trying to explain why I see Sam and Jack as being content right now.

Re: the bolded
This has been my point. We viewers have the luxury of having seen the future but the characters have not. (Now I'm about to say something that will probably come out nonsensical.) What we see a character doing in these early episodes may or may not influence their behavior in the later episodes, but what we've seen them doing in the later episodes is never an influence on them in the early episodes. What I'm getting at specifically here is that Jack and Sam at this time during The Light can not be upset and frustrated about their situation never getting any better because they don't know that it doesn't. Heck, they don't know if they'll even be alive at the end of any day!

As for striving for something better, I agree, but if doing so is going to cause other areas of your life to fall apart then content may just be the proper place to be and that's what I see Sam and Jack both settling on right now.

If it'll help... my feeling about where Sam and Jack are at in a relationship at this time is that they are only now exploring the idea of long-term. They only recently came to realize their feelings for each other. But just because they have those feeling doesn't mean they must end up together. And where that all ends up means nothing if the Bad Guys destroy Earth. So right now they are more concerned with staying alive.

**JenniferJF** · 28 February 2010, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by UhSir View Post

I'm not trying to say either of us is right or wrong. I'm only trying to explain why I see Sam and Jack as being content right now.

Oh, I just mean that even right there, in The Light, I don't think Sam is happy, and I thought you were implying that for her at the time of The Light she was doing the right thing given her circumstances, and I don't think that's true. Even then, I think she was in denial of her true feelings and her choices were - for want of a better term - dysfunctional. She might have been 'comfortable and content', but she wasn't happy nor was she being the complete and psychologically healthy person she could have been if she'd made other choices. I think - if Sam and Jack had both been emotionally and psychologically undamaged (though, how many of us are?) and really comfortable with their own feelings and the idea of having a healthy relationship instead of being scared and scarred from past failures, they would have, at the time of D&C, admitted their feelings, realized they *had* to do something about them, and switched teams so they could. Which, as I've said before, is more in line with the actual regulations anyway.

I also think, really, especially given she starts dating Pete while things are still 'hot' with the Goa'uld, that Sam realizes she does, in fact, need more in her life NOW and that she can't wait until the galaxy is at peace - it's not enough simply to stay alive. I think Sam's observation in The Road Not Taken that, to paraphrase, there will always be some fight and conflict, is very telling. I think - by then and through experience - she'd learned you simply can't put off your life because of circumstances. There will always be some battle to be fought... You could spend your whole life fighting it and trying to stay alive only to discover eventually you haven't ever really *lived*.

Though you're right, many of these lessons come later. Still, I think as the tension between them on the beach in The Light shows, they really were already frustrated in The Light. And I don't mean frustrated about their situation not getting better over time. I mean pure and simply physical and emotional frustration at being denied what they want NOW. Here are two people who I think at this point are in love with each other and do want each other physically. Yet they have to spend nearly every day together trying to ignore all that as though it doesn't exist. I can't imagine how frustrating that would be... but I don't think it would take very long for it to become incredibly frustrating. I think we see a glimpse of that on the beach in The Light when they're under the influence of the 'drug.' Most of the time, being rational honorable people they are able to contain it, but under those circumstances... it leaks out.

I also think it's why Sam effectively jumps Pete in her hallway.

Frustration

**UhSir** · 28 February 2010, 11:44 AM

Guess I should have read the rest of this discussion before posting. Doing that now. Spoilered stuff in quoted posts is only done because the go back links don't work and I'm not referencing it specifically.

Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View Post

Spoiler:

That's the part I'm not getting, the jealous/bitter/feeling rejected interpretation of Jack's feelings, not that Sam needs better balance in her life.

That's what I don't see either. Yes, Jack starts getting nasty in season 7 but I don't see any of that right now when he's around Sam.

Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post

I don't think I was clear enough, probably. I don't really think Jack is bitter or disappointed at *Sam* herself, and I don't even think he's really that way consciously. I think it's part of his overall sort of cynicism and general disappointment at life-the-universe-and-everything which goes back to Charlie's death and Sara's loss and which I think is often concealed beneath his humorous facade. So, I think his joking humor there over the bet is meant to conceal the fact he really is hurting - not just in this instance but in general - over the fact he and Sam can't have more and her devotion to her work and unwillingness to relax is related to this, so it's sort of like salt on the wound. And he uses humor to conceal that pain. Which doesn't even mean he's not *really* enjoying their interaction - because I do think he'd rather spend *any* time with her than none at all.

Spoiler:

I'm convinced that Jack has come to accept Charlie's death. He showed us that in Window of Opportunity. Nor do I think he's beating himself up over his failed marriage. Jack is a loner and he's not easy to get along with. He knows this and he needs it that way. This doesn't make him incapable of being in a relationship but it takes a very special person to make it happen and Sara needed more from him than he could give.

I see his joking around as his way of keeping things tolerable. Every day they invite or chase death and Jack makes jokes in order to keep doing that because if they don't, all of Earth dies.

Him using joking as a way to cover up pain over not having Sam makes no sense to me because after Chimera when he really does not and will now never have Sam he stops the humor almost entirely and becomes bitter and cynical. So much so that even I stopped liking him. To me that's proof that his earlier playing and joking with Sam was evidence that he was very satisfied with how things were between them.

And because I'm replying as I'm reading posts, I now see that most of what I've just said was already said by EvenstarSRV much better in her reply here:

Spoiler:

Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View Post

See, that's the connection I don't get. If Jack really wanted more with Sam at this point, all he'd really have to do is retire or get himself or Sam reassigned and, as far as I understand the regs, they'd be free to pursue a relationship. Their situation, IMO, has absolutely nothing to do with Sam's devotion to her work and everything to do with their war against the Goa'uld and both of their unwillingness to break-up SG-1 because together they have the best chance of winning. So it's *both* of their loyalty/devotion to their team/SGC/Earth that keeps them from doing anything at this point, not Sam's devotion to her science/work, IMHO.

And it seems to me that playing with her science/doohickeys is how Sam relaxes, it's what she does for fun and something she absolutely loves doing. It doesn't sound like fun or relaxing to Jack, but it works for her just as fishing works for Jack, and mediation works for Teal'c and probably research or reading works for Daniel. I think it takes Jack a while to get this about Sam, and while he still doesn't understand it, IMO he comes to respect it.

And a lot of this seems to stem from very different interpretations of Jack's character. While he has obviously experienced much pain, disappointment, and tragedy in his life, IMO he's been able to make peace with a lot of that and now takes what enjoyment he can from what life gives him. So to me, his humor is his way of enjoying life, not to just conceal his pain/disappointment with life. It's like he says in Threads, 'Let's not dwell.' He doesn't forget the pain/disappointment, but IMO he's gotten to a point where he realizes the uselessness in wasting time or energy on regrets. Life's too short, take what joy you can get from life and don't dwell on the stuff you can't control. Instead of banging on the door to that room when it's locked and neither of them has the key, why not lean against it and chat, smile, laugh, and enjoy what you do have.

Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post

Right... but he says that *after* Threads which, IMHO, makes all the difference in the world. Because I do believe it's during Threads when he finally realizes he's got to let go of the baggage of his past - that, in fact, in attempting to avoid pain and loss he has, in fact, been causing it. So that 'lets not dwell' is, in fact, a Very Recent lesson learned and was, in fact, the lesson he had to learn before he and Sam could go fishing (by which I mean, have a personal relationship which fishing IMHO represented).

And you're right, it's a very different interpretation of Jack's character. I don't think he *has* healed from Charlie's death and Sara's loss and that the reason he's willing to 'leave it in the room' after D&C isn't because of the regs or the war on the Goa'uld but because, as he says in WoO, he can't ever go through losing someone he loved again like he did with Charlie. And I think all his joking et al is in large part meant to hide his continued pain.

Spoiler:

Jack may first say "Let's not dwell" for the first time in Threads but he acts it all through out the earlier seasons. For example, in Lost City when Sam asks him about Sara and he asks her to not go there. Because he's not dwelling over it.

When Sam hooks up with Pete I do think he falls into dwelling about having lost her but he works it out at the same time because as season 8 progresses he starts getting back to his old self and then we find out about Kerry and see that he stopped dwelling.

And I figured this would get too lengthy. The rest of my reply is in another post immediately following.

**UhSir** · 28 February 2010, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post

Oh, I just mean that even right there, in The Light, I don't think Sam is happy, and I thought you were implying that for her at the time of The Light she was doing the right thing given her circumstances, and I don't think that's true. Even then, I think she was in denial of her true feelings and her choices were - for want of a better term - dysfunctional. She might have been 'comfortable and content', but she wasn't happy nor was she being the complete and psychologically healthy person she could have been if she'd made other choices. I think - if Sam and Jack had both been emotionally and psychologically undamaged (though, how many of us are?) and really comfortable with their own feelings and the idea of having a healthy relationship instead of being scared and scarred from past failures, they would have, at the time of D&C, admitted their feelings, realized they *had* to do something about them, and switched teams so they could. Which, as I've said before, is more in line with the actual regulations anyway.

I also think, really, especially given she starts dating Pete while things are still 'hot' with the Goa'uld, that Sam realizes she does, in fact, need more in her life NOW and that she can't wait until the galaxy is at peace - it's not enough simply to stay alive. I think Sam's observation in The Road Not Taken that, to paraphrase, there will always be some fight and conflict, is very telling. I think - by then and through experience - she'd learned you simply can't put off your life because of circumstances. There will always be some battle to be fought... You could spend your whole life fighting it and trying to stay alive only to discover eventually you haven't ever really *lived*.

Though you're right, many of these lessons come later. Still, I think as the tension between them on the beach in The Light shows, they really were already frustrated in The Light. And I don't mean frustrated about their situation not getting better over time. I mean pure and simply physical and emotional frustration at being denied what they want NOW. Here are two people who I think at this point are in love with each other and do want each other physically. Yet they have to spend nearly every day together trying to ignore all that as though it doesn't exist. I can't imagine how frustrating that would be... but I don't think it would take very long for it to become incredibly frustrating. I think we see a glimpse of that on the beach in The Light when they're under the influence of the 'drug.' Most of the time, being rational honorable people they are able to contain it, but under those circumstances... it leaks out.

I also think it's why Sam effectively jumps Pete in her hallway.

Frustration

I agree with everything in green. *helps JenniferJF get back into her chair* Even about the beach stuff. My difference has been about the bet scene. I don't see any frustration, underlying or overt. The beach scene does show us that they are not happy with being content, but that comes out while under the influence of The Light. We have to wait and see if they do something about it or not. And in Prodigy it seems to me they've opted to not.

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