Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Alan]

Hi all. I know I haven't been posting as frequently as I used to and for that I so sincerely apologise. I'm still a strong supporter of Sam and Jack and so desperately want to see some forward motion made for them in the very near future...

...and I guess its the future that's inspired me to post today because I am filled with worry. I've recently read the interview with Michael Shank's regarding Stargate SG-1's future...and what I read felt like a literal kick in the gut. Probably the worst thing I've read this year because if it is potentially the end of the dream for future movies then all we have for future on-screen S/J ship is Stargate: Universe. Now I'd gladly take that...but I would most definitely prefer a Stargate SG-1 movie dedicated to the original four SG-1 team members and a nice, full shippy moment that's part of the storyline rather than an off-to-the-side moment where Sam and Jack are making cameo appearances in an episode of SG:U.

Here's hoping that Michael Shank's speculation about Movie III is waaaaaaaaay off the mark.

[hedwig]

Hi all. I know I haven't been posting as frequently as I used to and for that I so sincerely apologise. I'm still a strong supporter of Sam and Jack and so desperately want to see some forward motion made for them in the very near future...

...and I guess its the future that's inspired me to post today because I am filled with worry. I've recently read the interview with Michael Shank's regarding Stargate SG-1's future...and what I read felt like a literal kick in the gut. Probably the worst thing I've read this year because if it is potentially the end of the dream for future movies then all we have for future on-screen S/J ship is Stargate: Universe. Now I'd gladly take that...but I would most definitely prefer a Stargate SG-1 movie dedicated to the original four SG-1 team members and a nice, full shippy moment that's part of the storyline rather than an off-to-the-side moment where Sam and Jack are making cameo appearances in an episode of SG:U.

Here's hoping that Michael Shank's speculation about Movie III is waaaaaaaaay off the mark.

Just remember that MS' comments are just his opinion and nothing more. It is highly unlikely that he has any more information than we do at this point, so he's just speculating. I prefer not to take any comments like his to heart, but to wait for official word of some kind from those who actually know some facts about whether the 3rd movie will be made.

And I'm still holding out the thought that it will get made.

[Alan]

Just remember that MS' comments are just his opinion and nothing more. It is highly unlikely that he has any more information than we do at this point, so he's just speculating. I prefer not to take any comments like his to heart, but to wait for official word of some kind from those who actually know some facts about whether the 3rd movie will be made.

And I'm still holding out the thought that it will get made.

Good advice, hedwig. I'm not giving up on a third movie will be made...it was just my first reaction on reading that interview with Michael speculating on Movie III was sickening surprise. I never thought I'd ever read anything like that.

[yessika]

Serpent's Venom has so many great things about it... I have to admit that even though I love the Teal'c story the part that completely makes this episode for me is the planting the mine story.

I absolutely love Sam and Jack's dynamic in this episode (my favorite scenes are Jack invading Sam's space and Jack dragging Sam from under the mine) and Jacob is one of my favorite characters so I like every episode he is in

[JenniferJF]

Serpent's Venom has so many great things about it... I have to admit that even though I love the Teal'c story the part that completely makes this episode for me is the planting the mine story.

I absolutely love Sam and Jack's dynamic in this episode (my favorite scenes are Jack invading Sam's space and Jack dragging Sam from under the mine) and Jacob is one of my favorite characters so I like every episode he is in

I adore the beginning scene when Jacob is going on and on about the plan and Jack keeps trying to push his way in and at the end Jacob says something like, "And Jack, you're always lots of fun" as the reason to bring him. But if you've noticed the pattern, I tend to love all Jack and Jacob's scenes together.

And, from a shippy PoV of course, cause I think Sam is actually a lot like Jacob when she's really being herself, I think their personal life together once they have one probably involves a lot of the same sort of back-and-forth Jack has with Jacob.

[ses110]

Hi all. I know I haven't been posting as frequently as I used to and for that I so sincerely apologise. I'm still a strong supporter of Sam and Jack and so desperately want to see some forward motion made for them in the very near future...

...and I guess its the future that's inspired me to post today because I am filled with worry. I've recently read the interview with Michael Shank's regarding Stargate SG-1's future...and what I read felt like a literal kick in the gut. Probably the worst thing I've read this year because if it is potentially the end of the dream for future movies then all we have for future on-screen S/J ship is Stargate: Universe. Now I'd gladly take that...but I would most definitely prefer a Stargate SG-1 movie dedicated to the original four SG-1 team members and a nice, full shippy moment that's part of the storyline rather than an off-to-the-side moment where Sam and Jack are making cameo appearances in an episode of SG:U.

Here's hoping that Michael Shank's speculation about Movie III is waaaaaaaaay off the mark.

I have not been on the forum in a long time and what horrible news to read. This is what I was afraid of with the first two movies. What a waste. TPTB had a chance to have a Jack heavy movie with Jack/Sam Ship and instead they focus on the horrible season 9 and 10 of SG1 IMO. TPTB did everything to limit RDA in Season 9 and 10 and the second movie because RDA was a reminder to how good things use to be. I'm so glad I stopped watching Universe. Good luck to Universe with this news. I can only imagine how long time SG-1 fans and Sam/Jack Shippers will take this news. Even if a movie is done there is no telling how much longer we have to wait.

[Alan]

I have not been on the forum in a long time and what horrible news to read. This is what I was afraid of with the first two movies. What a waste. TPTB had a chance to have a Jack heavy movie with Jack/Sam Ship and instead they focus on the horrible season 9 and 10 of SG1 IMO. TPTB did everything to limit RDA in Season 9 and 10 and the second movie because RDA was a reminder to how good things use to be. I'm so glad I stopped watching Universe. Good luck to Universe with this news. I can only imagine how long time SG-1 fans and Sam/Jack Shippers will take this news. Even if a movie is done there is no telling how much longer we have to wait.

I wouldn't take it as news but rather as idle speculation on Michael Shanks' part. There's nothing official said either way so there's still hope...but seeing Michael say those things was a bit of a kick in the gut.
As for Movie I...I didn't like it except for the fact that it finally finished off the Ori story. That is its only saving grace as far as I'm concerned. It just makes for horrible viewing through and through...plus...and I really hate to say this...but the acting didn't wasn't all that good...but that's a discussion for another thread.
As for Movie II...VAST improvement. More in the vain of Seasons 1 to 8 and some nice little moments between Amanda and Rick as Sam and Jack (shame there wasn't more but I was happy with what I saw)...but it still had the lingering sickly taste from Seasons 9 and 10 with Mitchell once again having to be the hero of the piece AND also somehow have him in a more central role because it just so happened to be a relative of his transporting the Stargate (I know its sci-fi but pardon me whilst I suspend my disbelief at the coincidence(!))...again...more discussion for another thread...although...to be honest...I think I've pretty much covered it right there.

[JenniferJF]

RDA in Season 9 and 10 and the second movie because RDA was a reminder to how good things use to be. I'm so glad I stopped watching Universe. Good luck to Universe with this news.

I don't see the connection...

How would no Movie #3 - even if it were absolutely true - effect Stargate Universe? If anything, I'd say having everyone involved not having to split their time between Universe (and Sanctuary) and a third Stargate movie is more likely to improve the quality of their other work rather than make it worse. And while it may not be true for everyone, I personally would rather have a good 20 episode TV show (40 hours with Sanctuary) than a third 1.5 hour Stargate SG-1 movie. Would I like both? You betcha. But I don't see how not getting the movie is going to effect my enjoyment of Stargate Universe.

Unless you're suggesting shippers are going to - en masse - stop watching Universe simply because we're not getting the Stargate SG-1 movie with Sam/Jack confirmation we want. Personally, I suspect most shippers are more mature than that and aren't willing to cut off their nose to spite their face. I could be wrong, of course, in which case TPTB really aren't going to care what they do as it's been pretty clear all along they're not writing for the lowest common denominator anyway.

[ses110]

I don't see the connection...

How would no Movie #3 - even if it were absolutely true - effect Stargate Universe? If anything, I'd say having everyone involved not having to split their time between Universe (and Sanctuary) and a third Stargate movie is more likely to improve the quality of their other work rather than make it worse. And while it may not be true for everyone, I personally would rather have a good 20 episode TV show (40 hours with Sanctuary) than a third 1.5 hour Stargate SG-1 movie. Would I like both? You betcha. But I don't see how not getting the movie is going to effect my enjoyment of Stargate Universe.

Unless you're suggesting shippers are going to - en masse - stop watching Universe simply because we're not getting the Stargate SG-1 movie with Sam/Jack confirmation we want. Personally, I suspect most shippers are more mature than that and aren't willing to cut off their nose to spite their face. I could be wrong, of course, in which case TPTB really aren't going to care what they do as it's been pretty clear all along they're not writing for the lowest common denominator anyway.

Most people I know have stopped watching Universe. The most answers I get are there are no likeable characters. No characters with any impact that you just have to watch. This news about the third movie may give other people something to think about that are having doubts about this show. It's not about being mature. IMO the problems all started with the decision to go for Season 9 of SG-1. The show should have stopped with Season 8 and we would have had a couple of movies with the original cast. TPTB could have then focused on Atlantis. Not that I liked Altantis either. TPTB were always looking for the next spinoff instead of focusing on the present. This whole francise went down hill with Season 9 IMO.

[JenniferJF]

Most people I know have stopped watching Universe. The most answers I get are there are no likeable characters. No characters with any impact that you just have to watch. This news about the third movie may give other people something to think about that are having doubts about this show. It's not about being mature. IMO the problems all started with the decision to go for Season 9 of SG-1. The show should have stopped with Season 8 and we would have had a couple of movies with the original cast. TPTB could have then focused on Atlantis. Not that I liked Altantis either. TPTB were always looking for the next spinoff instead of focusing on the present. This whole francise went down hill with Season 9 IMO.

Oh... don't get me wrong. There are reasons for not watching Universe - as there are for any TV show. I just don't see how an SG-1 movie is related to the success of SGU in any real way beyond the possibility that the success of SGU (and Sanctuary) - and it looks successful based just on ratings if you don't take the time to actually talk to the vast number of people not watching it - make it less likely there'll be time and reason to do another SG-1 movie.

[ses110]

Oh... don't get me wrong. There are reasons for not watching Universe - as there are for any TV show. I just don't see how an SG-1 movie is related to the success of SGU in any real way beyond the possibility that the success of SGU (and Sanctuary) - and it looks successful based just on ratings if you don't take the time to actually talk to the vast number of people not watching it - make it less likely there'll be time and reason to do another SG-1 movie.

IMO the Stargate fanbase is very fragile right now and any negative news can impact anything Stargate related. IMO this has been caused by too many bad decisions after RDA and Gekko did not run the show. I can just go by the people I spoke to. There is not alot of faith in the current members of TPTB. This is all IMO and the people I spoke to opinions. It does not mean were right and eveyone else is wrong.

[EvenstarSRV]

I adore the beginning scene when Jacob is going on and on about the plan and Jack keeps trying to push his way in and at the end Jacob says something like, "And Jack, you're always lots of fun" as the reason to bring him. But if you've noticed the pattern, I tend to love all Jack and Jacob's scenes together.

And, from a shippy PoV of course, cause I think Sam is actually a lot like Jacob when she's really being herself, I think their personal life together once they have one probably involves a lot of the same sort of back-and-forth Jack has with Jacob.

I really enjoy all the Jacob and Jack scenes as well, particularly this episode and Allegiance. And I'd say even from a non-shippy perspective (an in not in relation to Jack) Sam is a lot like Jacob, which makes sense considering she was raised by him during most of her formative years and also joined the Air Force.

Re Serpent's Venom, I like the balance between the serious Teal'c torture stuff and the lighter mine stuff on the ship, Jack swiping at a mine while flying, Sam's 'trust me it's a math thing', Sam getting pulled out from under the mine by Jack, etc. And it's got one of my favorite exchanges on Stargate, the 'green is good?' 'no' 'bad?' 'very bad' 'Dad!' with Sam and Daniel. Makes me chuckle everytime.

[Cagranosalis]

IMO the Stargate fanbase is very fragile right now and any negative news can impact anything Stargate related. IMO this has been caused by too many bad decisions after RDA and Gekko did not run the show. I can just go by the people I spoke to. There is not alot of faith in the current members of TPTB. This is all IMO and the people I spoke to opinions. It does not mean we're right and eveyone else is wrong.

Hmm, but the Stargate PTB are the exact same PTB (for the most part) that brought us some of the greatest moment of SG-1 and more or less all the current lot worked on SGA. At least the ones who made the big decisions (i.e. the producers) are.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by bad decisions? I think they did an excellent job with the actors, material and budget they had. They did, after all, manage to produce two excellent movies.

But the mine thread is a welcome relief. There are just so many lovely funny moments from the initial briefing scenes through the mine reprogramming (where there is a rerun of Jacob being Dad with Sam and Daniel “Try again”) and Jack’s glee at getting to fly the ship.

Love the attempt to get Teal’c and love the fact that its one of the times they fail – and Teal’c escapes thanks to Rak’nor. (I also love that we get to see Rak’nor throughout the rest of SG1 grow and become a leader himself).

Great review. I am not normally a fan of seeing the team split up in any way but I think it worked really well for all the reasons you stated (which I have sadly snipped for space.)
And, of coursre, I too love seeing Jacob because the Jacob/Jack dynamic was just too wonderful. As Jenn says, here's a glimpse of Sam and Jack as they are now as a couple.

Sam and Jack
And Jack is still sceptical in the briefing (where interestingly, he’s opposite Sam). There’s a lovely look of exasperation Sam shoots at him at one point.

The elevator scene with the three of them (Jack, Sam and Jacob) is very cute. Love the shot from inside the elevator.

Oh nice spot. I missed those bits. I will have to go back and watch again.

The other shippyish thing that I notice is when Jack is fully determined that they should rescue Teal’c somehow even to the detriment of the rest of the mission, how Sam fully supports Jack, arguing with her father to sway him to their side of the argument. Up until the moment Sam gets involved Jacob is adamant they can’t do anything even calling Jack ‘Colonel’ to remind him of the mission and his duty.

And that’s it. Some nice interplay and support for one another.

The interesting thing about this is that it does support the fact that Jack's objectivity is compromised all round when it comes to his team. He's willing to blow a very important missions to rescue one person.

[ses110]

IMO the bad decisions were having a season 9 and then bringing in two Farscape actors that changed the whole feel of Stargate. Then using RDA very little in Season 9 and 10 and when they did use RDA, TPTB made sure he had no impact. The decision to not have the second DVD movie be RDA heavy with Sam/Jack Ship and the story be mostly about the original SG-1. TPTB for some reason wanted to run away from the Jack character after Season 9 when the Jack character was a big key to the whole francise. Maybe TPTB did not want a reminder on how bad they messed up ? IMO these are mistakes RDA and Gekko would not have made. I did not bother watching the 1st movie since it was about Season 9 and 10 and IMO the second was far from excellent. It was more Mitchell being the hero and we never even got to see Sam cry after what happened to Jack in the Movie. Sam cried for minor characters during the show and once again we have to settle for watered down Sam/Jack Ship.

[Cagranosalis]

IMO the bad decisions were having a season 9 and then bringing in two Farscape actors that changed the whole feel of Stargate. Then using RDA very little in Season 9 and 10 and when they did use RDA, TPTB made sure he had no impact. The decision to not have the second DVD movie be RDA heavy with Sam/Jack Ship and the story be mostly about the original SG-1. TPTB for some reason wanted to run away from the Jack character after Season 9 when the Jack character was a big key to the whole francise. Maybe TPTB did not want a reminder on how bad they messed up ? IMO these are mistakes RDA and Gekko would not have made. I did not bother watching the 1st movie since it was about Season 9 and 10 and IMO the second was far from excellent. It was more Mitchell being the hero and we never even got to see Sam cry after what happened to Jack in the Movie. Sam cried for minor characters during the show and once again we have to settle for watered down Sam/Jack Ship.

Well, given that RDA left for his own reasons and graciously agreed to return for some cameos... and that, originally, he wasn't even supposed to be in the second movie at all... and speaking from a general viewing perspective, I'll stand by what I said above. I think they did an excellent version with the actors, material and budget they had.