Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • hlndncr
    replied
    Thanks for the review, Sara! Great job!

    I really enjoy this episode. I don't know that it stands out on any of my top whatever lists, but it is a good solid episode that is very entertaining and has an interesting premise, a unique alien and some good character interactions.

    I think Janet was more open to Sam's suggestions to investigate for herself rather than inform anyone of her own "memories" of Tyler because she was conscious of the earlier incident with Orlin. But Hammond's reaction was a bit hasty and severe. I guess having an invisible alien come through your stargate and take up residence in one of his officer's homes made him even more weary.

    I enjoyed the character of "Tyler." I thought he was interesting and likeable. And his interactions with Jack were superb. He learned to trust humanity because of Jack's honor, courage, and as you pointed out Sara - loyalty.

    Not a lot of shippiness in this ep. I really think of this as a team outing. Yes, Sam was being insubordinate, sneaky, and to Simmons absolutely contemptuous (and I liked seeing her that way), but Daniel and Teal'c were right there with her backing her up. They were all ready to do whatever it would take to save Jack. It was awesome. I felt the bond they all share. And sometimes for me that can be just as delicious as any overt shippiness (not that I would complain about a little "so glad your safe" hug mind you).

    For entertainment value I'd give this episode a 6/10. It's a good solid episode that I enjoy sitting down to from time to time. For shippiness I have to go with a 4/10, shipper boredom would set in if I have to watch too many eps in row like this, with no real hint of any ship. Unfortunately, this is season 5, so . . . .

    Leave a comment:


  • SaraBahama
    replied
    The Fifth Man

    Favorite quotes:

    HAMMOND: Escort them to the Infirmary.
    CARTER: With or without reinforcements, we are going back Sir.
    HAMMOND: The hell you are. Relinquish your weapons.
    HAMMOND: Airmen! Major Carter I will authorised the use of force unless you relinquish those weapons immediately.


    TEAL'C: I am loyal to the Tauri.
    SIMMONS: Why should I believe you?
    TEAL'C: If I were still loyal to the Goa'uld you would know it.
    SIMMONS: Really?
    TEAL'C: It would be immediately apparent, as I would not hesitate to kill you where you sit.


    TYLER: Colonel, you could have made it to the Gate. You came back for me.
    O'NEILL: What's your point?
    TYLER: I guess I'm grateful.
    O'NEILL: Well I wasn't going to let you die Lieutenant. It's like…a ton of paperwork.
    TYLER: Paperwork.
    O'NEILL: It's a joke. My way of deflecting attention from my own obvious heroism. You'll get used to it.



    Synopsis

    Under attack from Jaffa on P7S-441, SG-1 attempts to escape through the Stargate. However, Lt. Tyler, who is with them, is injured and Colonel Jack O’Neill stays behind to help him while Major Samantha Carter, Dr. Daniel Jackson and Teal’c go for reinforcements. Upon arriving at Stargate Command, the three learn that there is no Lt. Tyler. As the members of SG-1 seem to have false memories, they are not allowed to go back through and are sent to the infirmary. After the evaluation Carter hacks into the base computer system and to their surprise finds out, that there really never was a Lt. Tyler. However they find out that a mysterious 'User 4574' has been looking through the SGC files for their past missions.

    Back at the planet O'Neill and Tyler hide in the ruins of an old stone structure. Soon a Death Glider finds them, and although O'Neill is able to bring it down with a grenade launcher, their position is already compromised, and he begins setting up defenses as Tyler is still incapacitated
    .
    Later Colonel Simmons from The Pentagon arrives to question the members of SG-1 and General Hammond begins to suspect that he might be involved with the NID. During the inquiry Simmons reveals that he isn't fond of SG-1 at all, accusing Daniel of sympathizing with the ones that have been taken as hosts by the Goa'uld and questioning Sam's judgment due to her encounters with Jolinar and the Entity, and the romantic encounter with Orlin. He also suggests that Teal'c is still loyal to his old masters but Teal'c counters this by pointing out that he would have killed Simmons where he sat if such was the case. Carter in turn confronts him about User 4574, who Simmons apparently is. In the meantime Dr Fraiser examines the clothing SG-1 wore on the mission and she comes in contact with an alien powder, giving her a brief memory of seeing Lt. Tyler. The powder is similar to the neurotransmitter acetylcholine (although the chemical structure shown on her computer does not actually look like it) and she concludes that this is what caused SG-1's false memories of Tyler.

    On the planet, Tyler confesses to O'Neill that he is in fact a Reol named Kaiael and what he has done to them. He also shows him his real form and tells him that his species uses their abilities to survive. When the Goa’uld found out about their abilities they started to hunt the Reol hoping to use their memory-altering abilities for themselves. Nevertheless O'Neill is determined to save both of them.

    After Dr. Fraiser determines the effects of the powder, SG-1 gets permission to go rescue O'Neill, despite the objections from Simmons. Carter, Jackson, and Teal'c manage to arrive just in time to help O'Neill finish off the Jaffa, who attacked their position and nearly overwhelmed them. As a large amount of Jaffa are now guarding the Stargate, Daniel stays with Tyler while the others plan to retrieve a staff cannon from the Death Glider which O'Neill shot down earlier for additional firepower. Feeling responsible for SG-1's trouble, Tyler stuns Daniel with a Zat and flees into the woods to lead the Jaffa away from the gate but is quickly captured. Having succeeded in their plan, SG-1 ambushes the group of Jaffa who are taking Tyler back and kill the remaining Jaffa at the gate.

    In the end Kaiael thanks them for their help and tells them that his people will likely bury their Stargate. Back in the SGC, Simmons plans on reporting serious problems within SGC, with which he hopes to bring down Hammond.
    (synopsis from stargate: solutions site)


    General

    I like this concept. An alien who uses a chemical to infiltrate a group for it's own protection: imbedding memories going back weeks to make their presence acceptable. It’s just a little unique. He looks kind of creepy, but has a gentle personality you just want to protect.

    Jack reiterates several times that the subterfuge was not necessary: he and SG-1 would have helped him no matter what. “Tyler” does a good job of explaining why being blut was not a good option, since the team members were strangers to him and he was in the middle of trying to escape his most recent captivity by the Gou’ald.

    There is definitely themes running through this episode...one of them is loyalty:

    Jack insists to “Tyler” on more than one occasion that they don’t leave men behind. I’m forcibly reminded that Jack himself was left behind in Iraq (and will be again in next season’s ‘Abyss’...but I’m getting ahead of myself), so he understands what the stakes are and what treatment awaits a soldier left to be captured by enemy soldiers.

    Sam, Daniel, and Teal’c are loyal to Jack when they insist on returning through the gate to help him; Sam in particular, since her initial refusal to surrender her weapon could land her in a court-martial.

    On to Simmons: John de Lancie certainly plays characters that I love to hate. Simmons is definitely a man with an agenda. He picks apart our favorite team, pointing out what shortcomings throw all of their allegiance into doubt. My absolute favorite moment of interaction is with Teal’c, when he is practically accusing him of still being loyal to the Goa’uld

    Teal'c: " If I were still loyal to the Goa'uld you would know it...I would not hesitate to kill you where you sit."
    I did get some satisfaction from Sam fighting back...to the point that Simmons cut the interview short when she identified him with the hacker..

    The writers were also on their game with this ep. I had wondered why SG-1 hadn’t just assumed they had gated to a different time period or universe: no sooner had I asked the question myself, that the writers answered it: The team discussed the fact that the gate doesn't transport to parallel universes..

    It made me proud to see Hammond harassing the political higher ups to find out who Simmons was: he was obviously calling political leaders for hours trying to find out who Simmons was..

    One thing I didn’t care for: Tyler zatted Daniel and left him out in the open. I see this as a little slip by the writers. It was extremely dangerous- a sentry could have walked up at any time.


    S/J

    The most obvious example of ship here was Carter’s refusal...let me say that again: REFUSAL to relinquish her weapons.

    I don’t see how she could have been blind to the fact that it was insubordination. This is our by-the-book Sam Carter here. What makes her refuse to obey a command that she would normally acquiesce to?

    She is in an adrenaline fueled state of agitation at not being able to return. Almost frenzied.

    NOTE: That’s all for now, guys. More tomorrow. I’m falling asleep here.


    PS: to a certain extent, Hammond and Janet are treating them like they're crazy in this episode, too.

    Leave a comment:


  • hedwig
    replied
    Originally posted by majorsal View Post
    i found a transcript. here's a part:

    CARTER: Colonel, I did my duty in reporting the alien encounter and now everyone thinks I'm crazy.

    O'NEILL: Look, Carter, here's the bottom line. No one has seen what you've seen and until that happens we're all going to think you're nuts.


    and yes, jack was especially buttheadedly in the ep.
    Thanks for finding that. I knew it was in there somewhere.

    But, again, by now (5th season) people shouldn't be so quick to think another person is "nuts" because of something they see that no one else does. I guess they learned their lesson by Season 6 when Jonas Quinn was seeing things no one else did. They at least gave him the benefit of the doubt - something they didn't bother to give Sam in "Ascension".

    Leave a comment:


  • majorsal
    replied
    Originally posted by hedwig View Post
    And I thought there was a scene were Jack told Sam everyone thought she was nuts. But I can't find it in the transcript, so it could have been some other episode he said it in. However, the way everyone was treating her throughout the episode, pretty much implied they thought she was having emotional problems.
    i found a transcript. here's a part:

    CARTER: Colonel, I did my duty in reporting the alien encounter and now everyone thinks I'm crazy.

    O'NEILL: Look, Carter, here's the bottom line. No one has seen what you've seen and until that happens we're all going to think you're nuts.


    and yes, jack was especially buttheadedly in the ep.

    Leave a comment:


  • SaraBahama
    replied
    Ok...I watched The Fifth Man earlier...gimme a minute to finish the review.

    Leave a comment:


  • Everlovin
    replied
    I'll take Warrior

    Leave a comment:


  • hlndncr
    replied
    Here's a proposed schedule for the rest of the Season 5 rewatch. It's two episodes a week with a week off around Ship Day to encourage participation in that event. I'd say try and stick with the dates listed, but in no one will balk if you post a review within +/- 2 days.

    The only episodes that still need to be claimed are The Warrior (which I gave up because I will be travelling in Scotland at the time) and Menace. Any takers?

    Season 5 Rewatch Schedule:

    June 29: The Fifth Man - SaraBahama
    July 2: Red Sky- ajay
    July 6: Rite of Passage - SaraBahama
    July 9: Beast of Burden - hlndncr
    July 13: The Tomb - neverendingimagination
    July 16: Between Two Fires - hlndncr
    July 20: 2001 - IamDKScully
    July 23: Desperate Measures - SaraBahama
    Aug. 3: Wormhole X-Treme - ajay
    Aug. 6: Proving Ground - SaraBahama
    Aug. 10: 48 Hours - Robinbishop1231
    Aug. 13: Summit - Sparky She-Demon
    Aug. 17: Last Stand - Sparky She-Demon
    Aug. 20: Fail Safe - neverendingimagination
    Aug. 24: The Warrior
    Aug. 27: Menace
    Sept. 3: The Sentinel - hlndncr
    Sept. 7: Meridian - Everlovin
    Sept. 10: Revelations - Robinbishop1231

    Leave a comment:


  • hedwig
    replied
    Originally posted by ajay View Post
    Just playing devil's advocate here for the sake of discussion...

    Did anyone actually come right out and call Sam nuts/crazy/lost it in this episode, or is that just the read you get from the way they treated her? From what I remember, she agreed to the surveillance. And how do we know who made the decision to keep a couple of bugs in the house after the cameras were removed? That could have been the influence of Simmons. With him sticking his nose in, I can see why Jack would want to be cautious in allowing Sam to "hypothetically" learn more about Orlin.

    And yeah, the guy was creepy and stalkerish. But if a millennia-year old alien offered to share all he knew with me and could build a stargate in my basement and make precious stones in my microwave, I'd be intrigued too. But that could be just me.
    Sam agreed to the original surveillance by the SGC. That was shown with her sitting in her home office with Jack, and the people around them installing cameras in various places. Without telling anyone at the SGC, Col. Simmons took the whole thing several steps further by having other surveillance cameras in place, even after the ones installed by the SGC were removed. I do believe Jack and Hammond were just just as shocked as Sam was when they found out the surveillance had been continued after the SGC cameras had been removed.

    And I thought there was a scene were Jack told Sam everyone thought she was nuts. But I can't find it in the transcript, so it could have been some other episode he said it in. However, the way everyone was treating her throughout the episode, pretty much implied they thought she was having emotional problems.

    Leave a comment:


  • ajay
    replied
    Just playing devil's advocate here for the sake of discussion...

    Did anyone actually come right out and call Sam nuts/crazy/lost it in this episode, or is that just the read you get from the way they treated her? From what I remember, she agreed to the surveillance. And how do we know who made the decision to keep a couple of bugs in the house after the cameras were removed? That could have been the influence of Simmons. With him sticking his nose in, I can see why Jack would want to be cautious in allowing Sam to "hypothetically" learn more about Orlin.

    And yeah, the guy was creepy and stalkerish. But if a millennia-year old alien offered to share all he knew with me and could build a stargate in my basement and make precious stones in my microwave, I'd be intrigued too. But that could be just me.

    Leave a comment:


  • fems
    replied
    I always sort of figured Jack didn't want to raise any flags by supporting Sam unconditionally when everyone else already thought she was nuts. At least when Daniel was acting crazy they all suspected there was something affecting him (after a while, but nevertheless) but now everyone assumed Sam had lost it. This isn't too long after all the shippy stuff in season 4 and Entity so I can see why Jack would try to take a step back and for once sort of go with the flow.

    Anyway, just wanted to say I don't think everyone should be blaming Jack in this instance, as everyone else was just as bad. Even Janet and Daniel, who are usually more understanding/cautious when dealing with craziness.

    Leave a comment:


  • RadicalDreamer
    replied
    Ah, this episode. I remember feeling angry and disappointed the first time I saw it. The creepy alien, Jack calling Sam nuts... Why ?

    I've seen discussions about this episode on Tumblr lately and I could agree, I guess, that the episode was stupidly written. I mean, how come they immediately all think that Sam is nuts considering their crazy job ? They've seen crazier before ! For 5 years ! And Jack BELIEVED in Daniel when he got sent into a nuthouse (and Daniel LOOKED/ACTED crazy). Why didn't he do the same with Sam here ? Makes little sense. Yeah, I know Sam tends to overwork and lose sleep... and lack of sleep can cause hallucinations and fainting. But they didn't even consider the possibility that maybe she was right and that's pretty disappointing (and hurt Sam's feelings, I would feel the same if I were her).
    Oh well, at least, Jack felt concerned enough for her to want to spend time with her off base... and he felt a bit jealous, I guess (he's all nonchalant at her door but I can imagine him being grumpy/sullen later when he's spending time with the guys *that could make a sorta cute angsty mini fic maybe*). So I guess not everything was bad about this episode. But still... it did rub me the wrong way and it's still not a favorite.

    Maybe it all come down to the writers' questionable treatment of female characters, in the end. And it's sad.
    Of course, I won't touch the Orlin thing. I think you got it covered.

    I also agree about Sam not being emotionally stunted or completely inexperienced. But she had BAD experiences before. I think she's more emotionally troubled than stunted, really. Considering that, it's almost appropriate she got the Jolinar storyline. A storyline where she has to deal with a weird case of schizophrenia... emotionally at least. I tried once to come up with one word to describe SG1's each personal struggle and I got this :

    - Jack : redemption.
    - Sam : identity.
    - Daniel : worth.
    - Teal'c : freedom.

    Don't know what you think about this.
    Last edited by RadicalDreamer; 27 June 2014, 11:53 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ParadoxRealities
    replied
    Hi folks,

    I don't exactly know what I'm doing (apparently one can actually forget how to be in this community) ...but fems called me over, and I figured I should do something productive when I did, so I came bearing gifts:

    Out of the Abyss

    Well, a gift. There's also this one from season 1 and this guy from "2001" who are looking for betas for their sequels (or critics for themselves), so hopefully their sequels will be better than they are. But hopefully the one gift'll do. It's ok, it likes critics, too.



    Orlin is entirely creepy-stalkery. Is it bad that I like watching Sam deal with stalker-y types? Until, you know, she gets engaged to them.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by ParadoxRealities; 07 August 2014, 11:35 PM. Reason: links

    Leave a comment:


  • fems
    replied
    Still does nothing for me, sorry. Looks like an average guy to me (except shorter).

    Leave a comment:


  • AmberLM
    replied
    Originally posted by fems View Post
    I'm totally with iiradned here and also agree with hlndncr about Orlin's creepiness. I also don't think the actor is all that (in looks or talent) so that probably influences my opinion as well.
    Totally! When I heard that Sean Patrick Flanery was in Stargate I was so excited. One of my fave films is "Simply Irresistible" with Sarah Michelle Gellar and he's delicious in that! He looks so old and scruffy and not cute in Stargate! my inner fangirl was crushed lol

    Simply Irresistible


    Stargate

    Leave a comment:


  • Samantha-Carter-is-my-muse
    replied
    Thanks for a great review I agree with you, hlndncr - this is not my kind of angst either

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X