Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[VSS]

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Another thing is when they get shot and are lying there. When you walk up to them, they glare at you and say (after you search them for grenades and hidden pistols or suicide vests) "We will triumph, I will have your head infidel!" I always respond to it by saying back to them in Pastu: "Yes, but who of us is still alive bother? (using the word for Son of Allah)" Then they usually look confused and puzzled and then die. I like to give them something to think about because otherwise they scream and throw blood and gore everywhere which they know is unsettling. I also like to use Son of Allah because usually Afghans use it with other Islamic friends and the intimacy of it surprises them, I figure its the same God so we really are brothers in God.

So they think about what you're saying before they die?
OT medical stuff-

Spoiler:

I remember doing trauma rotations and it was just like that. Only cleaner and infinitely safer since we weren't in Afghanistan. But also our resuscitation rooms were not in the ER where the gangbangers could actually get at us. People get very combative right before the end, and you're kind of afraid to sedate them because it's only going to drop their blood pressure further. Too bad I didn't know any phrases like you had that would shock them enough to get them to settle down. My attending was a man who had learned his craft in Vietnam. One tough son of a b***ch. We had to keep him away from the gangbangers for their own safety. Now I can see why.

[Coela Bellatore]

Not an over achiever, just smart and a survivor. You adapt to your surroundings so you can survive in an extremely hostile environment. No wonder you like Jack

Yay, you posted!

EDIT: Vietnam Vets scare me! They always have a waaaaaayyyyyy cooler war stories too.

SUPER EDIT:

only infinitely safer since we weren't in Afghanistan

You werent if you lived in Detroit. 394 murders in 2007 and 117 combat deaths in Afghanistan.

Super Ridiculous EDIT: I think the Spoiler Tab is overused. I just scroll by it an miss interesting tib-bits. Why don't we just use it for spoilers?

[trupi]

Yay, you posted!

EDIT: Vietnam Vets scare me! They always have a waaaaaayyyyyy cooler war stories too.

SUPER EDIT: You werent if you lived in Detroit. 394 murders in 2007 and 117 combat deaths in Afghanistan.

Super Ridiculous EDIT: I think the Spoiler Tab is overused. I just scroll by it an miss interesting tib-bits. Why don't we just use it for spoilers?

Forum regs. If you are talking OT on a thread, you need to place your statement in spoilers, so others have a choice to go past the OT comment or discussion. See I posted twice

[Bagpuss]

Enough Off topic discussion about sig content etc, folks .

Please focus a little harder on the topic of "Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion".

Thanks !

Bagpuss.

[VSS]

So here we are at the end of season 1 and these are the things I noticed that I hadn't before-
First, that (especially compared to some of the later seasons) there's a lot of ship scripted into this season. I hadn't really noticed that before because there's so much that's just wrapped up in little bits of acting and things like music, etc. later on but here it seems to me to be more deliberate. Were the writers just trying to set it up for us (which they did)? Or did later on it become more evident that they could rely on the actors to sort of carry the moment? Going into this I don't really think they knew that there'd be such good chemistry between the actors, even though rumor has it that they were picked partly because they looked good together.

Second, I really enjoyed Teal'c's story much more this time around. I think the alien/Jaffa thing was a bit off-putting to me in the beginning since I'm not really into the whole alien aspect of scifi. I just try not to think about Junior.

Finally, I think they did a nice job of making me believe that this team could be cohesive when in the beginning they were more or less thrown together by circumstance. Only Sam really wanted to be there. Jack got pulled back in, Daniel is searching for Sha're and Teal'c needs allies to help fight the goa'uld. Given that, I like how they addressed the obvious problems of Teal'c being involved in Sha're's kidnapping and Jack being separated from his wife and not being too keen on scientists (and now there are TWO on his team, poor man). I only wish that Sam had been given more of a back-story. Also, to a greater or lesser degree every one of the stories that focused on her had something to do with the fact that she's female, with the possible exception of Solitudes. Even though there's a little ship in there that clearly isn't the focus of the episode.

How about a favorite episode? For me, it was definitely Solitudes, followed by Cold Lazarus. Though I guess we'll all have to wait and see how we like

Spoiler:

The Final Cut of CotG coming out in July.

That could be a new favorite, you never know!

[Zoser]

I love Season 1 - I will probably say this of every season.

Solitudes and Torment of Tantalus and I suppose most episodes show the inherent danger the Gate brings to those crazy enough to pass through. (I'd go in a minute)

The evolution of the characters is interesting. Jack finds his feet and is comfortable in his role as team leader with a loose enough hand to get the most from his people. MS as Daniel has Spaders role spot on but eventually gives us a more mature more interesting character. Teal'c is an egmima who gives us glimpses of the man beneath.
And Sam - well they seemed to need time to settle on her personality.
As for Sam and Jack, I think the attraction was as she walked in the door but I choose to believe it was all 'hot blond' and 'hero worship'. This mellowed and matured through the season and through the seasons to an amazing love story. I can see the sparks in many of the early episodes but it might be my view point.

[Oma-1]

I re-watch season 1 a lot, but not usually paying half as much attention as I have this time around These discussions have really got me thinking a lot more about the themes that run through S1 and I've paid a lot more attention to Daniel and Teal'c this time around. (My own personal mission through this re-watch is to get to know them better since my focus has always been S & J )

I also realised just how much I'd taken the ship for granted. I find it hard to watch early seasons and focus on how Sam and Jack's relationship developed without it being coloured by the later seasons. I've enjoyed examining (or at least, reading your examining ) in detail where there relationship stands at each point in the season. Looking specifically for the implications for the ship in each ep has been a real eye-opener!

My favourite S1 ep is still Solitudes. It was among the first eps I ever saw when I started watching SG-1 about 8 years ago, and the first that made me wonder exactly what was going on between Sam and Jack, because there seemed to be a heck of a lot more than I'd first realised.

There were a couple of eps that I would sometimes skip because I didn't particularly enjoy the stories. They were Cor'ai, Enigma and Brief Candle. I still don't like Enigma much or Brief Candle (although it does have that cake scene in it )

but Cor'ai I like now.

(Daniel / Teal'c frienship)

Spoiler:

It used to make me quite uncomfortable to watch it, but now I accept it as part of Teal'c's repentence for his time as First Prime, and the huge stepping stone it was for Daniel. Thor's Hammer showed that he had forgiven Teal'c for his part in what happened to Shau'ri, but Cor'ai showed Daniel just how good and compassionate Teal'c is. This allowed Daniel to accept Teal'c as a friend, not just a teammate.

Now bring on S2!!

[VSS]

Here's the schedule for Season 2 along with the episode write-ups that are spoken for. Toomi and I will pick up the slack but obviously we'll take as much help as we can get!

Season 2 Shipper Rewatch schedule:

May 18 The Serpent’s Lair
May 20 In the Line of Duty
May 22 Prisoners
May 27 The Gamekeeper
May 29 Need
May 29 Thor’s Chariot
June 2 Message in a Bottle Toomi
June 3 Family
June 5 Secrets
June 8 Bane
June 10 The Tok’ra Part 1
June 12 The Tok’ra Part 2
June 15 Spirits
June 17 Touchstone
June 19 The Fifth Race silly sally
June 22 A Matter of Time Toomi
June 24 Holiday
June 26 Serpent’s Song
June 29 One False Step
July 2 Show and Tell
July 6 1969
July 8 Out of Mind Jann

[Coela Bellatore]

Well considering I watched this entire season at the end of March the rewatch may have been a bit closer and therefor more biased for me. Looking back though, a lot of what I chocked up to "sexual tension" actually was something totally different. I didn't know that Sam and Jack never hooked up later on. I just assumed that SG-1 was like every other show on Showtime/cable networks. The only show that I have ever seen that showed this kind of work/romantic relationship in this way would be Bones. Maybe this kind of unusual writing is what hooked me on this show instead of the 100 others I have seen in the last six months. The lack of the interaction between Sam and Jack is probably why I never liked S9 & S10 when I saw them on tv when I was stateside.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to discuss this with you guys. It is fascinating to examine but we may need a separate thread for the OT discussions because "The Man" says I'm too OT. Unfortunately I am notoriously OT on every forum I'm on so I may be doomed in the end.

[hedwig]

I re-watch season 1 a lot, but not usually paying half as much attention as I have this time around These discussions have really got me thinking a lot more about the themes that run through S1 and I've paid a lot more attention to Daniel and Teal'c this time around. (My own personal mission through this re-watch is to get to know them better since my focus has always been S & J )

I also realised just how much I'd taken the ship for granted. I find it hard to watch early seasons and focus on how Sam and Jack's relationship developed without it being coloured by the later seasons. I've enjoyed examining (or at least, reading your examining ) in detail where there relationship stands at each point in the season. Looking specifically for the implications for the ship in each ep has been a real eye-opener!

My favourite S1 ep is still Solitudes. It was among the first eps I ever saw when I started watching SG-1 about 8 years ago, and the first that made me wonder exactly what was going on between Sam and Jack, because there seemed to be a heck of a lot more than I'd first realised.

There were a couple of eps that I would sometimes skip because I didn't particularly enjoy the stories. They were Cor'ai, Enigma and Brief Candle. I still don't like Enigma much or Brief Candle (although it does have that cake scene in it )

but Cor'ai I like now.

(Daniel / Teal'c frienship)

Spoiler:

It used to make me quite uncomfortable to watch it, but now I accept it as part of Teal'c's repentence for his time as First Prime, and the huge stepping stone it was for Daniel. Thor's Hammer showed that he had forgiven Teal'c for his part in what happened to Shau'ri, but Cor'ai showed Daniel just how good and compassionate Teal'c is. This allowed Daniel to accept Teal'c as a friend, not just a teammate.

Now bring on S2!!

Just a brief note (and maybe this has been noted before): Having rewatched "Brief Candle" recently, and regarding the "cake" scene, for the first time I noticed the music in that scene. Rather soft and understated, but there was an eerie tone in it as Jack is munching on the cake, as though to note that something is wrong and about to go even more wrong. I never noticed that before. And then, of course, Jack almost starts giggling as he's eating that cake, as he's becoming affected by whatever is in it, and then it goes on.

[VSS]

And Sam - well they seemed to need time to settle on her personality.
As for Sam and Jack, I think the attraction was as she walked in the door but I choose to believe it was all 'hot blond' and 'hero worship'. This mellowed and matured through the season and through the seasons to an amazing love story. I can see the sparks in many of the early episodes but it might be my view point.

I didn't really remember there being that many sparks and then was surprised about how many there actually are. Season 1 is pretty shippy, and looking ahead at Season 2 I'm not sure if I remember whether that continues at the same pace.

I also realised just how much I'd taken the ship for granted. I find it hard to watch early seasons and focus on how Sam and Jack's relationship developed without it being coloured by the later seasons. I've enjoyed examining (or at least, reading your examining ) in detail where there relationship stands at each point in the season. Looking specifically for the implications for the ship in each ep has been a real eye-opener!

That's one of the reasons for this rewatch and why I'm not watching any other episodes right now. I never saw them in order and I'm trying to see how it all comes about.

but Cor'ai I like now.

Me, too. In fact, I was very moved by it.

Well considering I watched this entire season at the end of March the rewatch may have been a bit closer and therefor more biased for me. Looking back though, a lot of what I chocked up to "sexual tension" actually was something totally different.

What? You have seen Divide and Conquer and Window of Opportunity, and Grace right? And I don't mean that rhetorically, it's just that those are the eps that leave no room for doubt that they've got a thing for each other, and maybe you missed them?

I didn't know that Sam and Jack never hooked up later on. I just assumed that SG-1 was like every other show on Showtime/cable networks. The only show that I have ever seen that showed this kind of work/romantic relationship in this way would be Bones. Maybe this kind of unusual writing is what hooked me on this show instead of the 100 others I have seen in the last six months. The lack of the interaction between Sam and Jack is probably why I never liked S9 & S10 when I saw them on tv when I was stateside.

I also watched the eps out of order and was a very unhappy camper to find out that they dropped the ball on the S/J ship in season 9 & 10. I remember my first-ever post went something along the lines of WTF? (boy was I naive- although I got a lot of green for it. this ship also has a lot of behind-the-scenes baggage that other ships don't have, and I didn't understand that at first.) It just didn't make sense because it was so well-written and went on so long, and then- zip. Well, not really zip because TPTB left little clues in S9, S10 and also in SGA so that we might assume they were together off-screen, if we were so inclined. They just didn't want to resolve the issue. Part of the problem being the people in charge at the time were not the people who developed the relationship in the first place, IMHO. It's hard to write- they're not romance writers (although they pulled one in for the movie- go Carl! )And part of the reason was that they want it to help them sell movies. So that's why we're finally going to see something in this next (and probably last) movie.

Although, frankly, that might be to late. Maybe that'd be a good topic for discussion some time.

But, like I said before, I practice evidence-based shipping. I don't make up things that aren't there. And I've honestly been fascinated with how they've written this, even though parts of S10 make me want to pull my hair out.

Oh, and we all go OT from time to time, all threads do, don't worry about it too much.

Just a brief note (and maybe this has been noted before): Having rewatched "Brief Candle" recently, and regarding the "cake" scene, for the first time I noticed the music in that scene. Rather soft and understated, but there was an eerie tone in it as Jack is munching on the cake, as though to note that something is wrong and about to go even more wrong.

I never noticed it and no one brought it up, IIRC. Thanks! That's the kind of little tidbit that's fun to find on a rewatch.

Good thing it's at the start of the ep so I can shut it off when I'm done listening for it. I don't like this ep any more than I did the first time.

[Coela Bellatore]

Me, too. In fact, I was very moved by it.

I guess it just seems too implausible to me. There are probably some medical show episode that you don't like because they shock like 80 flatlines in 5 minutes and would have killed about hmmmm... 80 people.

What? You have seen Divide and Conquer and Window of Opportunity, and Grace right? And I don't mean that rhetorically, it's just that those are the eps that leave no room for doubt that they've got a thing for each other, and maybe you missed them?

Uhhh, no. I have still only seen seasons 1&2. 3 is locked in CO's office right now and 4&5 are in the mail but again it can take a month to get to us. I guess I was saying that I thought they would just go boink and that would be the end of the ship. It was just, military boy likes new hot military girl, hot military girl has interesting issues with authority figures, military boy ends up in bed with her because of this, military boy and girl have to deal with ackwerd post-boinkness. Its the same formula with a different variation of like every single cable television show.

Good thing it's at the start of the ep so I can shut it off when I'm done. I don't like this ep any more than I did the first time.

Cake and a date-rape anyone?

[hedwig]

I didn't really remember there being that many sparks and then was surprised about how many there actually are. Season 1 is pretty shippy, and looking ahead at Season 2 I'm not sure if I remember whether that continues at the same pace.

That's one of the reasons for this rewatch and why I'm not watching any other episodes right now. I never saw them in order and I'm trying to see how it all comes about.

Me, too. In fact, I was very moved by it.


What? You have seen Divide and Conquer and Window of Opportunity, and Grace right? And I don't mean that rhetorically, it's just that those are the eps that leave no room for doubt that they've got a thing for each other, and maybe you missed them?

I also watched the eps out of order and was a very unhappy camper to find out that they dropped the ball on the S/J ship in season 9 & 10. I remember my first-ever post went something along the lines of WTF? (boy was I naive- although I got a lot of green for it. this ship also has a lot of behind-the-scenes baggage that other ships don't have, and I didn't understand that at first.) It just didn't make sense because it was so well-written and went on so long, and then- zip. Well, not really zip because TPTB left little clues in S9, S10 and also in SGA so that we might assume they were together off-screen, if we were so inclined. They just didn't want to resolve the issue. Part of the problem being the people in charge at the time were not the people who developed the relationship in the first place, IMHO. It's hard to write- they're not romance writers (although they pulled one in for the movie- go Carl! )And part of the reason was that they want it to help them sell movies. So that's why we're finally going to see something in this next (and probably last) movie.

Although, frankly, that might be to late. Maybe that'd be a good topic for discussion some time.

But, like I said before, I practice evidence-based shipping. I don't make up things that aren't there. And I've honestly been fascinated with how they've written this, even though parts of S10 make me want to pull my hair out.

Oh, and we all go OT from time to time, all threads do, don't worry about it too much.


I never noticed it and no one brought it up, IIRC. Thanks! That's the kind of little tidbit that's fun to find on a rewatch.

Good thing it's at the start of the ep so I can shut it off when I'm done listening for it. I don't like this ep any more than I did the first time.

I don't much like "Brief Candle" either, and I think I was only watching it because of some of the discussion on this thread, but it served a purpose since I noticed that little bit. And I had to listen really closely, because like I said it was soft and really in the background, unlike some of the music in some of the episodes. But, then, when I noticed it, I wondered why I hadn't noticed it before.

[VSS]

I guess it just seems too implausible to me. There are probably some medical show episode that you don't like because they shock like 80 flatlines in 5 minutes and would have killed about hmmmm... 80 people.

Lol! True. That's why I'm hypercritical of anything having to do with Dr. Keller on SGA. She ruined the show for me.

Uhhh, no. I have still only seen seasons 1&2. 3 is locked in CO's office right now and 4&5 are in the mail but again it can take a month to get to us. I guess I was saying that I thought they would just go boink and that would be the end of the ship. It was just, military boy likes new hot military girl, hot military girl has interesting issues with authority figures, military boy ends up in bed with her because of this, military boy and girl have to deal with ackwerd post-boinkness. Its the same formula with a different variation of like every single cable television show.

Oh, well, good for you, young Padawan shipper!
I would probably not have finished the series if it had turned out like that. Of course, it really hasn't been wrapped up so maybe the awkward post-boinkness is yet to come, but I don't think so.

In fact, I think they look awfully not-awkward in Threads. You'll have to give us your educated male opinion on that when we get there.

[VSS]

I don't much like "Brief Candle" either, and I think I was only watching it because of some of the discussion on this thread, but it served a purpose since I noticed that little bit. And I had to listen really closely, because like I said it was soft and really in the background, unlike some of the music in some of the episodes. But, then, when I noticed it, I wondered why I hadn't noticed it before.

Did you notice the Sam and Jack theme song is mentioned in TvTropes.com (as an example of a leitmotif- whatever the heck that is). I think it means theme song! I just ran across this today.

Here's the link- scroll down about half a page under "Live action TV"
Sam and Jack leitmotif