Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[EvenstarSRV]

I do agree with you that its solidifying their friendship, with these two (for me) it's not a case of either friendship or romance, one lead to the other over time. They are friends and I love that about this show, and this is one of the eps where you begin to see that friendship strengthening, as you say it wasn't instantaneous it was earned and evolved over time.

I definitely agree with this, which is why I really don't mind the ship as shown on the show, because I can see their friendship as being a foundation for any romantic feelings that may develop down the line. So my default perception of all of Jack and Sam's interactions is one of friendship/camaraderie, and it takes unusual circumstances bring out any shippy feelings.

It depends entirely on your own perception.

Spoiler:

I don't ship anyone on SGA because I've never seen anyone showing some romantic feelings towards another character there, maybe except Sheppard/Teyla in the pilot and McKay/Katie, but I was never really invested in SGA characters so I just shrugged it off. oh, and I've never seen Ronon/Amelia as well.

And on SG-1 I ship S/J only but even then I take a lot of "shippy" moments as friendship only. And I've never seen any other ship on the show, but there are/were D/V, Daniel/Janet, Sam/Martouf etc shippers.

Yep, me too.

I like to think of the shippy vs. friendshippy parts of Sam and Jack's relationship like shifting gears. I consider the majority of their interactions to be that of friendship, then every now and then circumstances will cause those feelings to shift into a more shippy tone. So it's not either/or between friendship and ship, but rather an ebb and flow between the two depending on the circumstances.

It's Monday morning and I haven't had my morning coffee yet, so I could be misremembering ... but there was an episode where Sam states "I have field medic training". I just don't recall (at the moment) which episode it was in. ... whether it was in the early seasons or later.

That line is from Nemesis, I believe, when Sam's telling Thor they brought medical supplies for him.

[Aveo_amacus]

I also especially like the bolded part ... more so because it would explain more rationally (aside from her personal concern for Jack) why she left her post ... which a lot of people find totally wrong for her to have done. They feel she should have stayed at her post no matter what. Apparently many people blame Sam for Janet having died, simply because Sam left her post to tend to Jack. It was never stated in that episode just what Sam's "job" was at that time, but many people think she was supposed to be covering Janet, Daniel and Wells. I don't see how, since she couldn't even see them from her position. And I'm pretty sure that she would have gone to the side of anybody else that had been injured (say Dixon or somebody else she was nearer to) to tend to them.

Yeah that bugs me too. Sam was apart of the "soldier force" for this ep - she was part of the team that was responsible for shooting the bad guns not patching up the good. I kinda like the idea about why she left her position, I'd never thought of that before, although personally I think she was up and moving before she'd really thought but certainly Jack's wellbeing was her main motivation at this point.

[leiasky]

I definitely agree with this, which is why I really don't mind the ship as shown on the show, because I can see their friendship as being a foundation for any romantic feelings that may develop down the line. So my default perception of all of Jack and Sam's interactions is one of friendship/camaraderie, and it takes unusual circumstances bring out any shippy feelings.

Well said. Don't the best (most solid) relationships begin with the couple starting out as friends? It was illustrated well in the series, I think.

When the show originally aired, we didn't know what would happen, and so much of their interactions do seem like a friend and teammate, with an occasional slip into something that they're not allowed to feel. I don't think I saw anything remotely shippy until Divide and Conquer. After that, I started looking for it. But prior to that, I just thought of their banter and flirting that of friends and teammates with maybe something underlying that could grow into something more. TPTB planted the seeds early on but were sprinkled through the entire run and not noticeable a lot of the time - until we go back, knowing what's happened, and pick out the cluess

And yes, much of it was the camraderie between RDA and AT.

I like to think of the shippy vs. friendshippy parts of Sam and Jack's relationship like shifting gears. I consider the majority of their interactions to be that of friendship, then every now and then circumstances will cause those feelings to shift into a more shippy tone. So it's not either/or between friendship and ship, but rather an ebb and flow between the two depending on the circumstances.

Well said. I agree.

[Toomi]

Spoiler:

Bah... sorry for the delay. For some stupid reason my IE keeps 'not responding' so my laptop automatically shuts the stupid thing down taking my post with it each time...

Tin Man


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Fave Quote:

CloneSam: We are identical, right down to the mole on our...
RealSam: Hey, hey hey, shut up!

Two Jack's In Unison: 'O for cryin out loud.'


Fave Scene: Where the two Jack's talk.

SG-1 arrives through the gate on a planet that has had some development. It looks like they're in a structure made of metal, with stairs, pipes and large things with a different language written on it. Daniel and Teal'c don't think it's Goa'uld. Sam spots a computer and begins touching buttons until a strange noise starts. As they head back a light encompasses them each and they fall to the ground.

When they come to, they have been changed out of their uniforms into a black track suit. They meet a man who apologizes for 'attacking' them and remarks on how remarkable a specimen they are, especially Sam. She immediatly bristles and Jack warns her to calm down. When he touches her shoulder she flinches.

Harlen tells them he is the last person on this planet and that the planet is dangerous as there's radiation. When Harlen gives an amount of time measured in millions of hours Jack figures it out very quickly, getting a shocked response from Sam, even more so as he's right. Harlen explains he made them 'better' and when he won't explain it to Jack, Jack leaves.

In the infirmary Janet admits she's worried and asks Jack to listen to his own heart, yet there's no beat to be heard. When she attempts to take blood she gets a strange while liquid. Teal'c reveals that he doesn't carry a symbiote anymore and Jack grabs a scalpel and cuts through his wrist. Inside there's mechanical parts.

Janet calls for security and Hammond orders SG-1 to be placed in a holding cell. Jack blurts out that Hammond's wife died of cancer, and his two granddaughters names, in the hopes of convincing Hammond that he really is Jack.

In the holding cell Sam tries to talk to Jack but he's insistent that he knows who he is but the scientist in Sam begins to ponder what happened. When Daniel brings up that they're still SG-1, Jack argues and Sam jumps in stating that no matter what, they're still.... and Jack finishes human. The point drives home for them as they realise that they won't be able to continue as SG-1 or have their lives back.

They all collapse together and Hammond agrees to send them back to the planet, (RDA's landing didn't look too comfortable) where they immedialty begin to feel better.

Spoiler:

Is this the first time we hear Jack say 'son of a b****'? This aired in 96? I know that's a pretty common word to be heard on evening tv now, but just over 10 years ago was it all that common?

Jack seems far more angry than any of the other members of SG-1. They've all had the same thing done to them and they've all realised that they are about to give up their lives as they know it. Daniel begins to think about living for 10,000 years and Sam, while still not happy, discusses the issues (not feeling hungry) with him. Does Jack become angry as he realises that he can't go back and therefore has nothing to live for again?

Harlen doesn't hide his glee at having 'new friends' with him, to help him keep things going, and at that point something goes wrong and Harlem needs his new friends to help him get things fixed. Daniel and Sam pair up, while Jack heads off. After opening a steam vent (I think?) Teal'c attacks Jack. The robots seem to feel the pain, but don't break easily. Teal'c sticks Jack's face in front of a smaller vent and just as he's about to smash him to pieces, Sam calls out, and Harlem shoots Teal'c. Jack is left with a hole in the skin on his cheek. Harlem says he can fix things, that they will all see. He asks them to go back and wait for him.

Sam and Daniel, on Jack's orders, find Harlem and figure out what he's doing. Harlen explains that Teal'c malfuntionned as there were two minds in one body. Jack shows up and demands to know the answer to the question of how he can create a new Teal'c. Jack finds out that their real bodies still exist and Harlem shows them.

Does it look like a small stick of RAM pinned to Harlen's collar as a broach?

Harlem can not return them back to their bodies as they are copies. The real SG-1 is being held by Harlen until the clones are perfect. It now sinks in for all of them, they are clones and can never go back to their lives.

The 2 Sam's begin discussing the situation to the bewilderment of Jack. Harlen talks to Teal'c who wants to know what happened to his double, I'm assuming the 2 Sam's are still chatting, and the 2 Daniel's catching up. Jack leaves to find his 'twin.'

The 2 Jack's argue over whose life it is and cloneJack reluctantly states he will bury the gate and reminds the other Jack not to send a bomb. RealSG-1 heads home leaving the clones behind.

I think it's a sad episode. The first time you watch it you think that something horrible has happened to SG-1 and when you find out they're really ok, there's a bit of relief. Until you realise that the copies can't go home. These guys have all the memories and emotions of the original SG-1. They think they have family, friends, work, hobbies, houses, cars etc back home. Imagine finding out that what you thought was your life was false and you could never go back, even for just one quick peek. That's what always gets me on this episode.

Implications for Sam and Jack: For the real Sam and Jack, not much except he now knows she posesses a mole somewhere on her person. For the other Sam and Jack, quite a bit more possibly. They're no longer an official military unit. They aren't human, they can never go back to Earth. Jack has promised to bury the gate, so for now they're stuck there. Just the four of them and Teal'c. I don't think it would have happened in a matter of days or even weeks, but over time I think it is very likely that Sam and Jack became more than friends. We know that there's the foundation being built for something more than a friendship (even though the real Sam and Jack don't know it yet) but with the regs, neither of them is even going to allow that thought to cross their minds at this point. The clones however, don't have that obstacle.

[leiasky]

Spoiler:

Is this the first time we hear Jack say 'son of a b****'? This aired in 96? I know that's a pretty common word to be heard on evening tv now, but just over 10 years ago was it all that common?

Yep, because the first five seasons were aired on Showtime and they had far less restrictions.

Implications for Sam and Jack: For the real Sam and Jack, not much except he now knows she posesses a mole somewhere on her person. For the other Sam and Jack, quite a bit more possibly. They're no longer an official military unit. They aren't human, they can never go back to Earth. Jack has promised to bury the gate, so for now they're stuck there. Just the four of them and Teal'c. I don't think it would have happened in a matter of days or even weeks, but over time I think it is very likely that Sam and Jack became more than friends. We know that there's the foundation being built for something more than a friendship (even though the real Sam and Jack don't know it yet) but with the regs, neither of them is even going to allow that thought to cross their minds at this point. The clones however, don't have that obstacle. [/COLOR]

I read a story once that touched on this, though I can't remember where or what the title was. That the clones did end up together. I think it was woven into the episode where all the robot clones die. It was sad and well done. It would have been nice to see on screen, that even robot Sam and Jack ended up together - just like all the other versions of them.

[Toomi]

Yep, because the first five seasons were aired on Showtime and they had far less restrictions.





I read a story once that touched on this, though I can't remember where or what the title was. That the clones did end up together. I think it was woven into the episode where all the robot clones die. It was sad and well done. It would have been nice to see on screen, that even robot Sam and Jack ended up together - just like all the other versions of them.

I think I too read that fic... I also have no idea what the title was, or who wrote it but it was a really good, yet sad, fic.

[Coela Bellatore]

Damn, this thread moves fast!

I'm sure that robotic Sam + Jack had a good time in their alternate lives. I think there is an episode where they were brought back but I don't know, haven't seen that yet. Jack just seems to be more of the kind of person an alternate Sam would hook up with than Daniel or Teal' C. But three... Bad thoughts, BAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDD thoughts.


I found this episode to be especially poignant, and showed that Season 1 had both very bad and very good episodes.

[hedwig]

Damn, this thread moves fast!

I'm sure that robotic Sam + Jack had a good time in their alternate lives. I think there is an episode where they were brought back but I don't know, haven't seen that yet. Jack just seems to be more of the kind of person an alternate Sam would hook up with than Daniel or Teal' C. But three... Bad thoughts, BAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDD thoughts.


I found this episode to be especially poignant, and showed that Season 1 had both very bad and very good episodes.

The episode where the robot SG1 was brought back is "Double Jeopardy".

[Coela Bellatore]

The episode where the robot SG1 was brought back is "Double Jeopardy".

OK, I haven't seen past episode 1 of season 3.

[hedwig]

OK, I haven't seen past episode 1 of season 3.

Ah ... well, "Double Jeopardy" is in Season 4, Episode 21. And other than that, I won't say anymore about it.

[VSS]

SG-1 arrives through the gate on a planet that has had some development. It looks like they're in a structure made of metal, with stairs, pipes and large things with a different language written on it.
When they come to, they have been changed out of their uniforms into a black track suit.

I really like the lighting in the opening scenes- and the fluorescent paint. It's very futuristic and industrial at the same time. To me, the black suits look like sexy 70's ski suits, and the entire team looks pretty hot. I'd say there's a little eye candy here in the beginning.

Janet calls for security and Hammond orders SG-1 to be placed in a holding cell. Jack blurts out that Hammond's wife died of cancer, and his two granddaughters names, in the hopes of convincing Hammond that he really is Jack.

Why those personal things? Does that mean something to Jack or is that how special ops people are trained?

Jack seems far more angry than any of the other members of SG-1. They've all had the same thing done to them and they've all realised that they are about to give up their lives as they know it. Daniel begins to think about living for 10,000 years and Sam, while still not happy, discusses the issues (not feeling hungry) with him. Does Jack become angry as he realises that he can't go back and therefore has nothing to live for again?

I'm unsure why Jack is the most angry. On the other hand, Daniel's face in this scene is rapturous, Sam is somewhere in between. I think that Jack's main problem is being stuck there, but as you point out he's also very upset back at the base. Maybe as an action-oriented soldier type he feels he's useless in this setting. You'd think with his injuries he be happy to be this way but the only time he even seems remotely interested is when he jumps over the railing.

Does it look like a small stick of RAM pinned to Harlen's collar as a broach?

What's RAM? Canadian candy? (Edit: Do you mean a memory chip? I thought it looked like candy). I loved Harlan's robes. I would really like to have them in the winter to cozy up in. They almost look like an extremely elegant smoking jacket.

Implications for Sam and Jack: For the real Sam and Jack, not much except he now knows she posesses a mole somewhere on her person. For the other Sam and Jack, quite a bit more possibly. They're no longer an official military unit. They aren't human, they can never go back to Earth. Jack has promised to bury the gate, so for now they're stuck there. Just the four of them and Teal'c. I don't think it would have happened in a matter of days or even weeks, but over time I think it is very likely that Sam and Jack became more than friends. We know that there's the foundation being built for something more than a friendship (even though the real Sam and Jack don't know it yet) but with the regs, neither of them is even going to allow that thought to cross their minds at this point. The clones however, don't have that obstacle. [/COLOR]

Honestly, to me it seems like Sam and Daniel would be much more likely to hook up in this situation. In fact, throughout the episode they're together (which doesn't seem to happen as much as it should otherwise). They're both fascinated by the possibilities of being "better" and I think they'd both have enough to do to keep themselves occupied for a few hundred years. Jack is really angry and isolates himself. I'm sure he'd eventually get over it, but that could turn into depression for him. It reminds me a little of 2010 in that way- Sam adapts and thrives and Jack doesn't. So, I don't know.

Why did they allow Harlan to re-animate the robot Teal'c? It's not as if they were saving his life- he was already alive and living on earth. I don't get that. It seemed cruel.

[Coela Bellatore]

I really like the lighting in the opening scenes- and the fluorescent paint. It's very futuristic and industrial at the same time. To me, the black suits look like sexy 70's ski suits, and the entire team looks pretty hot. I'd say there's a little eye candy here in the beginning.
Why those personal things? Does that mean something to Jack or is that how special ops people are trained?
I'm unsure why Jack is the most angry. On the other hand, Daniel's face in this scene is rapturous, Sam is somewhere in between. I think that Jack's main problem is being stuck there, but as you point out he's also very upset back at the base. Maybe as an action-oriented soldier type he feels he's useless in this setting. You'd think with his injuries he be happy to be this way but the only time he even seems remotely interested is when he jumps over the railing.
What's RAM? Canadian candy? I loved Harlan's robes. I would really like to have them in the winter to cozy up in. They almost look like an extremely elegant smoking jacket.

Honestly, to me it seems like Sam and Daniel would be much more likely to hook up in this situation. In fact, throughout the episode they're together (which doesn't seem to happen as much as it should otherwise). They're both fascinated by the possibilities of being "better" and I think they'd both have enough to do to keep themselves occupied for a few hundred years. Jack is really angry and isolates himself. I'm sure he'd eventually get over it, but that could turn into depression for him. It reminds me a little of 2010 in that way- Sam adapts and thrives and Jack doesn't. So, I don't know.

Why did they allow Harlan to re-animate the robot Teal'c? It's not as if they were saving his life- he was already alive and living on earth. I don't get that. It seemed cruel.

Hmmm, would the robot Jack commit suicide? He doesn't apparently but I can see that happening as his "life" is no longer his own. Harlan doesn't seem to be getting human emotions at that point, to him he is creating new life even though that new life had someone else's memories.

I guess that I don't see that much affection other than friendship between Sam and Daniel. They are co-workers who are also friends, Sam and Teal'C is also like good co-worker/friend sort of thing. Jack already has a friendship with Daniel and he and Teal'C have a sort of cross culture warrior bond. Now I see a definite affection between Sam and Jack. It can be argued that it is just a friendship at that point but it is there. A lot of officers with a subordinate, especially a women or academic or both, would bark orders and watch them scurry around trying to do everything. Now I know that Jack isn't that kind of guy but I know of senior officers that are a lot like Jack that would just mess with Sam all the time for the kicks of watching her get flustered (non-SEXUALLY). What Sam and Jack have had from the beginning is not a normal subordinate-superior relationship, it is something more, call me a romantic but still I think that given free reign and nothing else to live for, they would get together. Excuse me we're getting mortared.

[Coela Bellatore]

And I'm back but now I forgot what I was going to say.

[EvenstarSRV]

Yeah that bugs me too. Sam was apart of the "soldier force" for this ep - she was part of the team that was responsible for shooting the bad guns not patching up the good. I kinda like the idea about why she left her position, I'd never thought of that before, although personally I think she was up and moving before she'd really thought but certainly Jack's wellbeing was her main motivation at this point.

The way I read that scene was if you see your commanding officer go down with a normally fatal shot to the chest, wouldn't you want to go and at least check to see if he's still alive? This is one of those scenes that I've notice many people consider to be shippy (not on this thread but elsewhere), I guess because Sam is showing concern for Jack. But to me, in a battle situation like that, Sam is more likely to be thinking 'My CO just got shot!' rather than 'The guy I have feelings for just got shot!'

Hmmm, would the robot Jack commit suicide? He doesn't apparently but I can see that happening as his "life" is no longer his own. Harlan doesn't seem to be getting human emotions at that point, to him he is creating new life even though that new life had someone else's memories.

I think of the most important lessons Jack learned from the experience in the movie was that life itself was worth it, even it was a different life from what he may have wanted. So by this point I don't see Jack committing suicide, but rather focusing his anger/emotions into doing something productive.

I guess that I don't see that much affection other than friendship between Sam and Daniel. They are co-workers who are also friends, Sam and Teal'C is also like good co-worker/friend sort of thing. Jack already has a friendship with Daniel and he and Teal'C have a sort of cross culture warrior bond. Now I see a definite affection between Sam and Jack. It can be argued that it is just a friendship at that point but it is there. A lot of officers with a subordinate, especially a women or academic or both, would bark orders and watch them scurry around trying to do everything. Now I know that Jack isn't that kind of guy but I know of senior officers that are a lot like Jack that would just mess with Sam all the time for the kicks of watching her get flustered (non-SEXUALLY). What Sam and Jack have had from the beginning is not a normal subordinate-superior relationship, it is something more, call me a romantic but still I think that given free reign and nothing else to live for, they would get together. Excuse me we're getting mortared.

I know you've heard this from others, but please stay safe out there! And I want to say thank you to you and your fellow soldiers for your service.

[Coela Bellatore]

The way I read that scene was if you see your commanding officer go down with a normally fatal shot to the chest, wouldn't you want to go and at least check to see if he's still alive? This is one of those scenes that I've notice many people consider to be shippy (not on this thread but elsewhere), I guess because Sam is showing concern for Jack. But to me, in a battle situation like that, Sam is more likely to be thinking 'My CO just got shot!' rather than 'The guy I have feelings for just got shot!'

She could feel both you know.

I think of the most important lessons Jack learned from the experience in the movie was that life itself was worth it, even it was a different life from what he may have wanted. So by this point I don't see Jack committing suicide, but rather focusing his anger/emotions into doing something productive.

But remember that happened to real Jack and his real son. Robot Jack has never actually lived through any of those things.

I know you've heard this from others, but please stay safe out there! And I want to say thank you to you and your fellow soldiers for your service.

Ok I'm going to say this just because its been weighing on me for a while. None of us do what we do because we want to serve our country. I don't know a single person that patriotism was the reason they joined. "Selfless service" is a word that likes to be thrown around by bureaucratic officers who are trying to justify their worthless existence. Pat Tillman may have joined for that reason and we see how well that went. Most POG's (say it with me P-ooo-geh-s) or People Other than Grunts do it for economic reasons. Most G.I. are young and hotheaded and need an adrenaline soaked couple of years to burn off the testosterone before entering society. As for Special Forces, it varies between services and unit but most of us are here because we can't or won't do another job. I could have a better paying job in a research lab somewhere, but everyday I get up, look at the bloody (its the light refracted off dust in the air) sunrise and think "I love my job!". Nationality and patriotism go out the window when bullets fly, you fight for yourself, your team, and your comrades. Rant ended.