Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[VSS]

Most definitely! Or maybe spike his favorite cake with something nasty tasting, or put soda in his beer, or some other such thing. Rank issues aside, Sam has to be one of the most tolerant characters I've ever seen ... or maybe restrained is a better word?

Yes, and I think she lost that restraint after Threads, because in Moebius there are a couple of little exchanges where you kind of go hmmm....
I copied these straight from GW transcripts:

JACKSON: We have a time ship. We can go back and get the Z.P.M.
O'NEILL: She wouldn't let me go back and watch the Cubs win the World Series!

Then there's this:

CARTER: Just be careful. We're here for the Z.P.M. In and out -- minimal interaction, minimal impact.
JACKSON: No problem.
CARTER: I mean it. All of you, sir. (She looks at Jack.)
O'NEILL: You've got it, you've got it!

Followed very shortly by this:

JACKSON: Well, we can't just walk into the temple unannounced. A public audience is the perfect way to get inside.
CARTER: We just have to (she looks pointedly at Jack) keep a low profile.
(Jack looks at her indignantly.)

I think someone was getting a little bossy. It's a good thing Jack's not her CO anymore.

[hedwig]

Yes, and I think she lost that restraint after Threads, because in Moebius there are a couple of little exchanges where you kind of go hmmm....
I copied these straight from GW transcripts:

JACKSON: We have a time ship. We can go back and get the Z.P.M.
O'NEILL: She wouldn't let me go back and watch the Cubs win the World Series!

Then there's this:

CARTER: Just be careful. We're here for the Z.P.M. In and out -- minimal interaction, minimal impact.
JACKSON: No problem.
CARTER: I mean it. All of you, sir. (She looks at Jack.)
O'NEILL: You've got it, you've got it!

Followed very shortly by this:

JACKSON: Well, we can't just walk into the temple unannounced. A public audience is the perfect way to get inside.
CARTER: We just have to (she looks pointedly at Jack) keep a low profile.
(Jack looks at her indignantly.)

I think someone was getting a little bossy. It's a good thing Jack's not her CO anymore.

The shoe is on the other foot after "Threads" ... and I love bossy Sam. And even though Jack is a bit indignant and probably starts rolling his eyes more often at things she does and says, he lets her get away with it.

[josiane]

The shoe is on the other foot after "Threads" ... and I love bossy Sam. And even though Jack is a bit indignant and probably starts rolling his eyes more often at things she does and says, he lets her get away with it.

And really, what more evidence do you need that things have changed?

[Coela Bellatore]

The shoe is on the other foot after "Threads" ... and I love bossy Sam. And even though Jack is a bit indignant and probably starts rolling his eyes more often at things she does and says, he lets her get away with it.

And I don't know whats going on anymore first 2 seasons people.




Nah, I don't really mind, keeping going with your amazing later season knowledge.

I'm sure we don't have to tell you to be careful out there. But be careful out there!

Thanks! But the worst part is that I'm totally not careful at all. I love my job way too much. My parents would freak if they knew I was always pushing it and volunteering to go on every available mission with the 18X's (our nickname for Army Special Forces). I'm having the time of my life out here.

[EvenstarSRV]

Ah yes of course, Thor's Hammer was the moment for Daniel and Teal'c. As for Sam and Teal'c, I agree, their relationship does get kind of overlooked, even though now we look at theirs as a very solid friendship - as we know from AT insisting on the scene in the locker-room scene in Paradise Lost. The first episode I can think of where it's really Sam and Teal'c that have to work together is Foothold, actually. Can't think of anything earlier than that.

It unfortunately happened entirely off-screen, but I like to think that Sam and Teal'c's had a good bonding moment in the Fifth Race when they nearly died while stuck on that hot planet.

And I just wanted to say that I've really enjoyed your guys' discussions. I'm a non-shipper myself, though it's mostly because I still find the concept of shipping rather mystifying, and this thread is great for learning about it. So thanks for the different perspectives.

[Petra]

Well, I fell for it. On the other hand, you'd assume the stargate would be in one of the more hospitable areas of the planet- I guess that's why I felt that, in this case, Sam's thinking is not far off. What I think is funny is that the populations of other worlds are so small and homogeneous- but in Stargate it's all entirely explained away by the stargate and how people got there in the first place. I really like that aspect of the show.
Oh, and it explains how they all speak English. (sorry, aga).

No need to apologise Especially since it doesn't explain English at all..

I'm not really bothered by the English speaking aliens. I enjoy the show and am willing to suspend my disbelief. But sometimes, as a student dealing with languages at uni I really wish TPTB at least made some effort to explain it, instead of ignoring the whole issue.

First of all, no one's going to shoot you on this thread.

Thanks Looks like after a few years I finally found some threads for myself. Earlier I often felt like a heretic.

But second of all, I quite agree. It seems much more realistic to take a few years for him to even think about Sam in a romantic way, so the restraint TPTB showed in developing the romance is actually pretty admirable, considering it was in the back of their minds from the start. And I like that quality in Jack, because he hung in there all those years with Sam when he should have moved on, but he didn't really move on at all until he thought she was a lost cause. Of course, a person can say he had off-screen relationships even though there's zero evidence of that, but his behavior with Sara would indicate that just isn't his style. He's in it for the long haul.

I agree. As far as serious, long-term relationships are concerned Jack is very devoted and stable in his feelings. It's one of those qualities that make me question some fans' assessment, that he's a typical alpha male action hero. I mean obviously at work he shows this alpha male persona but I think it's more "Col/Gen O'Neill" than "Jack". Jack is more of the loner and one-woman kind of guy, there for a long haul once he falls in love, he likes to keep his distance, likes peace and quiet..and I don't think this is how a stereotypical alpha behaves.

However there's also a con of his stable emotions, because the same applies to his negative feelings. Once he starts to hate somebody it isn't likely to change. I wonder when Sam realises it for the first time..

Good points about bonding experiences of various team members everybody.

It unfortunately happened entirely off-screen, but I like to think that Sam and Teal'c's had a good bonding moment in the Fifth Race when they nearly died while stuck on that hot planet.

And I just wanted to say that I've really enjoyed your guys' discussions. I'm a non-shipper myself, though it's mostly because I still find the concept of shipping rather mystifying, and this thread is great for learning about it. So thanks for the different perspectives.

And again this week I get the pleasure to welcome you on the thread.
You are everywhere! (which is of course a very good thing )

[VSS]

And really, what more evidence do you need that things have changed?

Lots more, actually! Although I'd settle for a BHK.

And I don't know whats going on anymore first 2 seasons people.
Nah, I don't really mind, keeping going with your amazing later season knowledge.

That's the frustration of a rewatch, I guess! I hope we're not giving away too much.

It unfortunately happened entirely off-screen, but I like to think that Sam and Teal'c's had a good bonding moment in the Fifth Race when they nearly died while stuck on that hot planet.

I'd like to think so, too. I think it's perfectly legitimate to think that things happen off-screen, especially if later on you see changes in the characters that reinforce the concept. Certainly, TPTB intend for us to fill in the blanks- most obviously in Small Victories when O'Neill, Teal'c and Carter return from P4X-234 and Teal'c is sporting the goatee, while Sam is in a little too much of a hurry to tell Hammond that they were just fine... I always think that's a "What happens on P4X-234 stays on P4X-234" moment. And very likely a great bonding opportunity for Sam and Teal'c, too!

Then there's this exchange from Emancipation:
SAM: What a relief, I have never been so happy to see you guys.

JACK: Oh, sure you have, remember that time on P3X-595, you drank that stuff that made you take off...

SAM: We won't get into that now.

And, off-screen inference is exactly what S/J shippers have been left with for the last four years. But TPTB place clues intentionally, they always have as the above lines demonstrate. So when BW says it's okay to imagine that Sam and Jack are together, I think he means it. It's their intention and it's deliberate.

Quite honestly, those little shippy clues were fun. For a while. Now, it's getting a bit tiresome.

And I just wanted to say that I've really enjoyed your guys' discussions. I'm a non-shipper myself, though it's mostly because I still find the concept of shipping rather mystifying, and this thread is great for learning about it. So thanks for the different perspectives.

Heh. So did I, until now.
I don't even watch TV anymore. That's how not-into-shipping I am, in general.

However there's also a con of his stable emotions, because the same applies to his negative feelings. Once he starts to hate somebody it isn't likely to change. I wonder when Sam realises it for the first time.

Oh, definitely. Like the Russians. His opinion of them will never change, although Stargate hasn't done a terribly good job of giving us any evidence that it should change. But, as to your last point, when did that happen? I'm not sure.

[Aveo_amacus]

for me another Sam and Teal'c moment is the locker room scene in PL. SO glad AT fought for that scene

[VSS]

for me another Sam and Teal'c moment is the locker room scene in PL. SO glad AT fought for that scene

See, that's what I mean by later seeing things in the characters that imply things have gone on off-screen. As we were discussing above, there's no real on-screen episode that has Sam and Teal'c bonding front and center. Yet, we think that scene in season 6 that you mention is perfect, just as AT did, because we all believe that at some point they did become very good friends though no one can exactly say when that was. (I agree that she needed to push for that scene, it was way overdue). It fits with all the little things that have gone on over the years and things we're left to imagine. Unlike, say, the almost-kiss between Sam and Martouf in the Ripple Effect that was so OOC it had both the shippers and a lot of non-shippers going "What was that?"

[josiane]

Lots more, actually! Although I'd settle for a BHK.

Well, true

I'd like to think so, too. I think it's perfectly legitimate to think that things happen off-screen, especially if later on you see changes in the characters that reinforce the concept. Certainly, TPTB intend for us to fill in the blanks- most obviously in Small Victories when O'Neill, Teal'c and Carter return from P4X-234 and Teal'c is sporting the goatee, while Sam is in a little too much of a hurry to tell Hammond that they were just fine... I always think that's a "What happens on P4X-234 stays on P4X-234" moment. And very likely a great bonding opportunity for Sam and Teal'c, too!

Then there's this exchange from Emancipation:
SAM: What a relief, I have never been so happy to see you guys.

JACK: Oh, sure you have, remember that time on P3X-595, you drank that stuff that made you take off...

SAM: We won't get into that now.

And, off-screen inference is exactly what S/J shippers have been left with for the last four years. But TPTB place clues intentionally, they always have as the above lines demonstrate. So when BW says it's okay to imagine that Sam and Jack are together, I think he means it. It's their intention and it's deliberate.

Quite honestly, those little shippy clues were fun. For a while. Now, it's getting a bit tiresome.

Oh very well put, absolutely! I've always thought particularly the Small Victories one, because Sam and Jack are suddenly much more relaxed-flirty afterwards (at least until we get Upgrades and D&C and the forceshield). I'd love to know what happened, but you're right, it's every bit as much a part of storytelling to know where to leave the blanks and the hints as when to spell things out. And we have fanfic to speculate

See, that's what I mean by later seeing things in the characters that imply things have gone on off-screen. As we were discussing above, there's no real on-screen episode that has Sam and Teal'c bonding front and center. Yet, we think that scene in season 6 that you mention is perfect, just as AT did, because we all believe that at some point they did become very good friends though no one can exactly say when that was. (I agree that she needed to push for that scene, it was way overdue). It fits with all the little things that have gone on over the years and things we're left to imagine. Unlike, say, the almost-kiss between Sam and Martouf in the Ripple Effect that was so OOC it had both the shippers and a lot of non-shippers going "What was that?"

Exactly

[VSS]

Oh very well put, absolutely! I've always thought particularly the Small Victories one, because Sam and Jack are suddenly much more relaxed-flirty afterwards (at least until we get Upgrades and D&C and the forceshield). I'd love to know what happened, but you're right, it's every bit as much a part of storytelling to know where to leave the blanks and the hints as when to spell things out. And we have fanfic to speculate

I was thinking of you when I wrote that.
After we get to Small Victories, I'm going to be watching very closely to see if I see it, too. I've missed a lot of things, I'm sure (in case that isn't obvious).

[Coela Bellatore]

The holes and inferred events are the best part of SG-1 ship. If they didn't leave it open for us to interpret then what else could we talk about on teh internetz all day?

[VSS]

The blanks are the best part of SG-1 ship. If they didn't leave it open for us to interpret then what else could we talk about on teh internetz all day?

Lol! Oh, I'm sure that's very true.
Although I could spend hours discussing a full-on love scene, believe me.

[Coela Bellatore]

Lol! Oh, I'm sure that's very true.
Although I could spend hours discussing a full-on love scene, believe me.

I probably couldn't but the oddness of SG-1 is the reason why a Special Forces soldier, someone who works in a medical field, and who knows what else can discuss the relationship between two characters of a show. I'm not a bleeding heart kind of guy, I doubt any other TV show would pique my interest in this aspect of it as much as SG-1 one has.

[josiane]

I was thinking of you when I wrote that.
After we get to Small Victories, I'm going to be watching very closely to see if I see it, too. I've missed a lot of things, I'm sure (in case that isn't obvious).

Oh dear, have I gone on about that that much? I'll be interested to see if you do pick up on it then, or if it is just me