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Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

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    Favorite Lines:

    CASSANDRA: I just…thought it. I thought I wanted a knight, and it…flew into my hand. Jack calls 'em horses.
    CARTER: Yeah, well, that's Colonel O'Neill for you.
    CASSANDRA: He always pretends he's not as smart as he really is.

    HAMMOND (looks at Fraiser who has the gun still pointed at Nirti): Then I shall remind you that the woman holding the gun on you is Cassandra's mother.


    Boy! Teenagers really go through a lot of changes, don’t they? They grow taller, they develop interest in the opposite sex, they…make lights explode? Levitate chess pieces?

    Well, to be fair, Cassandra ISN’T a normal teenager…to be precise, she is an alien; the last of her species.

    Since her rescue from Hanka four years ago by SG-1, she has wormed her way into the team’s heart. She has found a new mom in the good doctor, Janet Fraiser. Obviously Sam is crazy about her: in the opening of the episode, she’s come over to celebrate Cassie’s 16th birthday. Cassie, in a rather typical teenage funk, doesn't express appreciation of the cake and candles that Janet and Sam have presented, but stalks outside to meet up with a boy from school -a kiss ensues and shockingly the porch light explodes and Cassie collapses.

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news: This weekend has been hectic, and this is as far as I was able to get on my review. Things (work Saturday, frantic prep work for leaving on Tuesday to visit with my mom for 2 weeks) have just derailed me in the worst possible way. I am so sorry, but it is 12:30am and I have to go to work early tomorrow. I hope you all forgive me.

    PS: I won't be back on GW until probably ship day.
    sig by Ikorni

    "When Colonel Maybourne and yourself were stranded off world, Major Carter felt a similar sense of frustration. She despaired at the thought of never seeing you again." ~Teal'c
    "I didn't leave,because I'd have rather died myself,than lose Carter." ~Jack O'Neill

    SaraBahama FanFic; AO3


      We forgive you

      I'll add some thoughts on this episode:
      At first watch through, this episode bugged the heck out of me. Cassie was so precocious and unappreciative when all her mother (in almost every sense of the word except biologically) wanted to do was save her life. Maybe that was just my misunderstanding of teenagers in general. But the next couple of times through, I started to consider that Nirrti was controlling Cassie's thoughts and actions through the virus. It kinda makes sense. Who knows what kind of effect having a bomb dissolve in your chest would have. So I tried to watch it and ignore Cassie's whining and focus on how Janet, and Sam, and the whole team band together to help her. And Teryl is fantastic in this episode.

      I don't remember much shippiness. But, wow, Cassie is so perceptive. She has this way of seeing right through everyone. I woulda loved to hear her analysis of Sam and Jack's relationship.

      Hmm fic idea: the development of Sam/Jack over 8 years through Cassie's eyes. Surely somebody has written something like that?

 seems to be having issues just now but I believe "The Walls have Ears" by Kate McCaye (I think!) is a cute little one-shot along those lines (follow the link to my pages in my sig and it's on my fave stories list)

        Re Cassie's opinion: In my head it goes something like this:

        Bregman: "So Sam and Jack, huh?"
        Cassie: "Oh please, those two have been dancing around each other since the day they met. And the whole Shanahan thing? Pfft! Like that was ever going to last! Sam only ever had eyes for one guy. At least Jack's girlfriend had the brains to see it but then Pete wasn't very observant for a cop. Thing is, Jack's just as crazy about her but he still waited, like, 8 years to do anything about it. Stupid Air Force rules. I thought I was gonna have to handcuff them together or something after Mom died. Oh well, I think they're cute together... but I still don't appreciate coming home from college to find them making out on the sofa - some things are too traumatic even for me!"
        Last edited by AmberLM; 08 July 2014, 03:18 PM.
        Sam and Jack... Still the best romance on TV in years!

        My fanfic


          I like Rite of Passage OK. That seems to be the theme this season. Just a series of so-so episodes. It's not bad, but since the opener we really haven't seen anything that is really a stand out, IMO.

          It's nice to see more of Cassie and Janet. And I love the little moment with Daniel and Janet in the hallway.

          I love that Cassie plays chess with both Sam and Jack. Yep, they are a future family in the making. (Although *sniff, sniff* that we loose Janet.) Sam and Jack are totally on the same page and show a wall of support and solidarity in protecting Cassie throughout the episode. The are very paternal. To me, that's shippy. (I have a very strong prescription.)

          Still the story itself doesn't do much for me. The end does feed into a great episode later on with Nirrti's continued genetic experimentation and some really angsty/shippy Carter near death scenes.

          For entertainment I give this ep 5/10. It's pretty average. For shippiness it's hard to judge because it's really just not there, as per usual for this season; 5/10 - neutral.


            Beast of Burden

            This is the one where we learn slavery is bad. Killing is too. Unas rebellion ensues.

            Favorite Line:
            Burrok: "It is our custom to welcome visitors with a drink. Will you join me?"
            Jack: "It is our custom to drink. Of course!"

            Favorite (using that term broadly) Scene: Briefing room with Jack's "I don't care"/"I care" bit.

            Totally Random Aside
            I've been in that barn where Jack and Daniel were imprisoned. It's right by the windmill you see on Edora (same filming location as A Hundred Days).

            I have to admit that Unas stories are my least favorite and this isn't even the best of a bad lot IMO.

            The Unas episodes are heavily Daniel-centric, but I think of this as a team episode without the team. It reminds me of the cliché (because I know how much Jack loves them) "There is no "I" in team. But there is no "WE" either, and it certainly shows here.

            Although Daniel and Jack are physically together (as in the same location) for most of the episode, they are at odds both philosophically and logistically (as in how to proceed). This is really nothing new, but you can definitely see the cracks and fissures in their relationship widening and there is an underlying feeling of hostility between the two, and precious little of the good-natured bantering we used to see.

            Teal'c eventually chooses to take off on his own ("I will not continue to do nothing."). And Sam is left trying to figure out how to follow her orders and still keep some measure of control over the situation.

            With this kind of fracturing it's a wonder they all made it out alive.

            I think the scene when the team is planning to extract Chaka is emblematic of the dynamic of this episode and underlines the deterioration in relations between the members of SG-1 that I see as S5 progresses. Notice how the team is positioned. Teal'c and Sam in front on their knees facing forward, Jack and Daniel are standing behind, also facing forward. They don't acknowledge Jack and Daniel as they come up to the ridge; they don't ever look at one another while they speak (Sam does turn her head slightly). Although they are together physically and even united (for the moment) on what to do going forward, I feel no connection between them. It feels like they are practically strangers.

            Compare that with for example The Fifth Man when they are up on the ridge planning how to rescue Tyler. They check on Daniel, bunch together; they are looking out toward the Jaffa below, but their bodies are angled toward one another and there's a sense of cohesion in their words and actions.

            Sam/Jack Implications
            I like to think I have some very thick, rosy shippy glasses, but there is nothing to see here.

            The lack of ship screams loudly to me in this episode. Not only are Sam and Jack not in many scenes together, but when they are there is absolutely no eye contact between them. Even when they glance at one another, which for Sam is infrequently and for Jack it is almost never, they don't look one another in the eye. Even when they are next to one another they are not framed together for the most part (and this is Martin Wood FCOL).

            In the briefing room scene at the beginning Sam is leaning on the table next to Hammond and Jack is standing behind her. She glances at Jack three times and Jack doesn't once look at her.

            When they are coming out of the gate, Sam glances at Jack briefly while they are talking and Jack never looks at her.

            The first time they are on the ridge, Jack does glance at Sam to give her orders, but he is still mostly looking down. Their eyes don't really meet (and they're wearing sunglasses anyway).

            The second time on the ridge I've already described, none of the team look at each other.

            Even during the rescue when Sam is standing in front of Jack's cell their eyes never meet. He does glance at her as she hands him a weapon when they are leaving the barn.

            During the ambush at the Gate and the discussion afterwards Sam does look at Jack once to tell him they need to leave. He never looks at her.

            OK, so why am I belaboring this point? Because so much Sam and Jack's relationship is built on the looks they share. The fact that they don't look at one another for an entire episode is indicative of the vast about face in their relationship since S4. (Even when Sam tried to make a Jack-like quip as she rescued him - J: Where's Teal'c? S: Trying to be popular. - she swallowed the line and it fell flat.)

            For entertainment value I give this episode a 2/10. I really don't want to see it again. I'm not ready to declare it the worst ever, but it falls further each time I'm subjected to it. For shippiness I give this a 1/10. The only thing that keeps it from the depths of the abyss is that there is no , yet!
            Last edited by hlndncr; 10 July 2014, 07:03 PM.


              Bringing the Schedule forward. Yay! It's complete!

              Season 5 Rewatch Schedule:

              July 13: The Tomb - neverendingimagination
              July 16: Between Two Fires - hlndncr
              July 20: 2001 - IamDKScully
              July 23: Desperate Measures - SaraBahama
              Aug. 3: Wormhole X-Treme - ajay
              Aug. 6: Proving Ground - SaraBahama
              Aug. 10: 48 Hours - Robinbishop1231
              Aug. 13: Summit - Sparky She-Demon
              Aug. 17: Last Stand - Sparky She-Demon
              Aug. 20: Fail Safe - neverendingimagination
              Aug. 24: The Warrior - Everlovin
              Aug. 27: Menace - IamDKScully
              Sept. 3: The Sentinel - hlndncr
              Sept. 7: Meridian - Everlovin
              Sept. 10: Revelations - Robinbishop1231


                The Tomb

                If nei gets a chance she can jump in and give us her insights on this episode. But for now here is the summary from the GW episode guide. Discuss.

                On a distant planet, SG-1 is bored. The team waits outside an ancient ziggurat -- a 4,000-year-old Babylon temple -- while Dr. Daniel Jackson attempts to decipher a way to unlock the door. Major Samantha Carter, meanwhile, makes an unsettling discovery: an empty pack of Russian cigarettes.
                Back on Earth, General Hammond briefs the team. He has learned that one Russian team went through the gate just a few days before it was shut down ("Watergate"), never to return. The team's leader was taking orders from a faction of the Russian government similar to the U.S.'s N.I.D. -- interested in acquiring advanced alien technology at just about any cost.

                SG-1 has found the planet they gated to, and are forced to team up with a Russian unit to find the missing men. The Russians have been pressuring the U.S. for more involvement in the S.G.C. since learning of its existence last year, and especially since a disaster forced them to give up their Stargate.

                Jack O'Neill clashes with Russian Colonel Zukhov, though the two are more alike than they might admit. Together with the three man and one woman Russian team, SG-1 returns to the planet. Daniel has deciphered the door mechanism, and manages to open it. The eight of them proceed into the dark, unlit and unstable ancient tomb, winding through narrow passageways as they explore the structure.

                The teams split up, and O'Neill's team finds a dead Russian soldier -- literally eaten alive. His skeleton shows tiny teeth marks. Meanwhile, Zukhov's group finds a Goa'uld sarcophagus.

                O'Neill orders them to hold their position until he arrives, but Zukhov approaches the sarcophagus and attempts to open it. He triggers a booby trap, sealing the door to the outside and locking both teams inside. One of the Russian officers tries to escape, and is crushed by the massive door.

                Jack orders the sarcophagus opened, and inside they find the skeleton of another man eaten alive by some sort of creature. This was Marduk, an evil Goa'uld sealed inside the sarcophagus by his own priests, along with some sort of creature. When the first Russian team arrived, they must have opened the sarcophagus and let the creature out.

                Major Carter and Lieutenant Tolinev go looking for signs of the creature, while Daniel works at translating more of the Babylonian inscriptions in the sarcophagus chamber (with Major Vallarin as his bodyguard). Teal'c and Colonel Zukhov go in search of the remaining missing soldiers.

                They find them -- also eat by the creature, leaving only their skeletons, uniforms and a few personal items. Colonel Zukhov rummages around in the dead soldier's bag when Teal'c looks away, and finds an ornate alien artifact -- the legendary Eye of Tiamat, which was said to give Marduk magical powers.

                Carter and Tolinev find the creature -- or rather, it finds them. It attacks the Russian soldier, leaving her with a venom-filled bite. Carter drives it away, injuring it with her weapon. But it's no ordinary animal, she reports: she sensed the presence of a Goa'uld symbiote.

                Marduk is not dead. Rather than being eaten alive inside the sarcophagus, he entered the creature and possessed it, surviving in the sarcophagus until the Russian team let him out.

                Tolinev is near death, and there's nothing the team can do for her here. They have to find a way out of the tomb and back to Earth. Faced with no other options, Colonel Zukhov advocates using explosives to try and break through the door. O'Neill refuses, as it would probably cause the entire structure to come down on top of them. They'll keep exploring.

                Sam and Teal'c go looking for the creature again, and find it -- dead. But the symbiote is not inside it. Presumably, Marduk was unable to heal its injuries and sought out a new host.

                O'Neill and Zukhov suspect one another, naturally, and reach a stand-still -- their weapons trained on one another. But when Vallarin arrives, he reveals that he is now host to Marduk. Using a Goa'uld hand device hidden in the ziggurat, he blasts the two soldiers to the ground. He knows that the Russian team had secret orders to recover alien technology, and believes that Zukhov has the Eye of Tiamat.

                O'Neill orders him not to hand it over, despite the fact that Marduk has a P-90 trained on him. But Zukhov relents, and agrees turns over the Eye -- but tosses Marduk a live grenade instead.

                The room caves in on Marduk and Zukhov, burying them under a ton of rock as O'Neill escapes. He returns to the main chamber, and learns that Daniel has found a ring transporter in the room that will allow them to escape.

                Marduk survived for 4,000 years in the body of an alien creature, though, and is not about to be stopped by a pile of rubble. Badly injured, he stumbles into the chamber and promises revenge on SG-1. But as the team transports away, Marduk sees what they have left behind for him: a pile of explosives detonate, filling the room with a fireball and killing Marduk.

                Back on Earth, Lieutenant Tolinev is saved -- though the Russian general accuses O'Neill of treating the Russian officers as expendable. O'Neill makes sure that the Russian's secret orders are on the record, since they put both teams in jeopardy, and tells the general not to expect future involvement with the S.G.C.

                The general disagrees.


                  It's coming... are you ready?


                    I don't really have much to say about The Tomb. It was about as interesting to me as Beast of Burden which wasn't much. The only part I found intriguing is when the group split up into teams to explore the tomb and Jack sent Carter with the other woman (forgot her name). I mean, military strategy would suggest you team people up based on complementary strengths/weaknesses eg Zukhov with Carter and Teal'c with what's-her-name. Maybe Jack didn't want Carter spending any time alone with Zukhov?

                    Also, is it just me or was what's-her-name smiling just a bit too much at Jack at the end of the episode.


                      When I do my rewatches, it's the Tomb that I seriously don't look for. Really, there's not any great teamyness, no great character moments that I can think of, no addition to the overall arc of the story aside from the continued mistrust of the SGC by the Russians.


                      Click here daily to give free mammograms

                      It is better to be crazy for Jesus than a wise man for Satan. Laters, Misi


                        I agree with both comments about The Tomb. I'm not a fan. It was supposed to be in the horror genre, but the creature is so pathetically silly I feel more like laughing than screaming. The characters are not well utilized (guest and regular) and the story just isn't that interesting.

                        I will say that it does contribute one thing to the overall mythology. The Eye of Tullimet is mentioned by ascended Daniel as one of the symbols of power Anubis is collecting to complete his ancient weapon. This, as we know, leads to the destruction of Abydos and de-ascension of Daniel. While that story would have still made sense without this one, the germ of the idea was born here.

                        Trivia: The actress who plays the Russian soldier was very nearly cast as Jennifer Hailey. Can you imagine a Hailey that was all smiles and flirty with Jack in Prodigy and Proving Ground? Yikes!

                        For shippiness there isn't much. I think a big part of Sam's job in this episode is to try and talk Jack down. The closest thing to a shippy-ish moment in the episode for me is when Jack and Sam are walking into Daniel's lab. We only hear the tail end of the conversation, but it's obvious she's trying to mollify him about working with the Russians. They're having a bit of an argument and she seems very comfortable challenging him. Then Jack ends it by saying, "Carter, who's side are you on?" He emphasizes that trust they all share and how important that is to him. I get the feeling that he needs her on his side and he trusts her implicitly.

                        This episode suffers from the same problems most of S5 has had thus far. The episodes are passable (some just barely), but uninspiring. This one is clearly below average. I give it a 4/10. It's not rip out my eyes terrible, but I won't go out of my way to watch it. For shippiness it's a 3/10. Really PTB, you can do better!
                        Last edited by hlndncr; 20 July 2014, 11:32 AM.


                          Between Two Fires

                          This is the one where we lose another useless ally, Sam sees another suitor bite the dust, and earth gains absolutely nothing.

                          For this review I will be drawing heavily upon (ie copying) my previous comments on this episode.

                          Favorite Lines
                          Jack has his full on snark going in the episode, which makes a rather slow plot more enjoyable. Here's a fun example:

                          Colonel, under the circumstances…

                          If you are going to recommend that I continue to be suspicious and skeptical…

                          I wouldn't waste my time.

                          Good thinking, Sir.

                          Just remember this deal could change the course of our history.

                          So—don't blow it?

                          What you're sensing as trouble could be simple internal political wrangling.

                          I understand that.

                          Or we could be walking into a minefield.

                          Thank you, Sir. These little chats of ours always bring me great joy and serve to ease my mind.

                          Favorite Scene
                          Despite it's many plot holes this show does have some great character moments. I love the scene with Jack and Daniel waiting to hear if we'll get the 38 ion cannons. They are seated on a pillar of somekind, nearly back to back and the camera circles them as they discuss the situation. The movement of the camera mirrors the circular or palendronic nature of the discussion, which lends to this sense of disorientation the characters are obviously experiencing in the midst of a situation they just can't fully grasp.

                          I've always rather liked this episode, but I try not to look too hard at the plot because it doesn't make any sense. I could go on for a long time about the things that don't add up, but I'll just say that I can see no reason for the Tollan initiating negotiations for trading technology; it only served to alert us that something fishy was going on. Maybe that was the goal of the Curia (a backdoor around the Goa'uld, and a silent plea for help) but then I can't see Omac opposing the scheme. Travail also made it clear that they didn't really need the trinium from us, which is later born out when Jack and Teal'c find the building full of completed weapons. (And so why was our trinium shipment even taken there in the first place?) But I'm not thinking about it. I'm just going to think about Jack in his dress uniform. Mmmmm, YUMMY!

                          There's a lot of great one on one interaction between several of the characters. Jack and Daniel have a couple of nice scenes where they do their schtick. I really like the little chat between Hammond and Jack. I can see the mentoring relationship there; while Hammond is weary of Jack's diplomatic skills he also sees the potential Jack has to (as we know) one day step into Hammond's place. I also really appreciate Teal'c's interrupted discussion with Sam and his sensitivity to her romantic relationships.

                          As for Narim, I know some don't like him, but I've never had a problem with him. I think he's nice. In fact I think that's exactly why he is wrong for Sam and why she is not particularly attracted to him. His implicit trust in his government and their laws, his desire to strictly follow the rules (even when confronted by a criminal conspiracy), his near worshipful devotion to Sam (which I think is at least somewhat understandable given she saved his life in a rather impressive fashion when they first met), and his perfectly gentlemenly behavior after she suggests a lack of mutual feelings for him definitely take him out of the category of "lunatic fringe" to which Sam has previously expressed a preference. I've heard some complain that Sam is too good and too perfect (a goody-two-shoes if you will) but this is a woman who flies jets, rebuilds motorcycles, and picks locks. She is a thrill seeker, and, to a certain extent, a rule-breaker. I think Sam's opinion of Narim actually changes when he starts taking some risks and breaking the rules. When he finds Sam and Daniel in Travail's office after destroying the bombs she and Narim share a look, and you can see her approval. When she says goodbye and he runs off to help save his planet you can see that her estimation of him has gone way (it is definitely a nice heroic arc). That makes her loss at the end even more poignant.

                          For me there is a Sam/Jack moment that wasn't, and I'm annoyed every time. I'm talking about when the team splits up to track the trinium and check the Curia records in Travail's office. There is absolutely no reason for Jack and Teal'c to have gone after the trinium together. Sam is the one with the technical expertise. She and Jack should have gone and Teal'c should have joined Daniel. That would have been so much more satifying on so many levels. First, it would have set up an interesting face-to-face confrontation between Teal'c and Tanith, which would have set up Tanith's demise a few episodes down the road so much better. And that of course also means that Jack and Sam would have needed to hold hands! How I would have liked to have seen that play out.

                          There is one sort of shippy moment for me. At the briefing when Sam is discussing how they can tag the trinium shipment to track it and suggests a plausible story to keep from getting caught Jack just looks at Sam with what I would call a mixture of awe and fear. I think he's once again amazed that she is so smart and resourceful (she can even outwit people he knows are way smarter than we are), but also a little intimidated by how Machiavellian she's become (she comes up with that convincing lie so smoothly and effortlessly). I don't know that has any long term implications for their relationship, but it does reinforce how highly he regards her and maybe how unworthy he might suspect he (or anyone else for that matter) is of this amazing woman.

                          For entertainment value, despite its flaws, I find this episode rather better than many thus far this season. I give it a solid 6/10. It has some good lines, nice character interactions and some implications for future episodes and story arcs. It's solid and worth rewatching from time to time.

                          Shippiness it gets a 2/10 because I think they could have done better without even trying and it would have improved the episode overall and not just for us shippers.
                          Last edited by hlndncr; 19 July 2014, 06:15 AM.


                            Excellent review, thanks

                            I also like this scene:

                            And the dress blues of course:

                            They do sit pretty close here:


                              After a period of neglect () we're trying to get back on track with the Awards blog and were wondering if there's anyone who would like to write a guest piece? It can be about the show in general, the rewatch (as in reviews you've written/like to write), the ship, yourself (in relation to the show/ship), fanfiction/fanart/fanvid (whether you make it or enjoy it), Ship Day/shippy holidays, and so on. There's no minimum/maximum for the piece (as long as it fits on the blog ) or any strict rules.

                              If you're interested you can respond to this post on the thread, PM me or email to [email protected].

                              Unmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
                              Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
                              On FFnet or AO3

                              My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories.


                                Ack! With everything that's been going on lately, I totally forgot that today is the 20th and therefore the day I am supposed to post my review of 2001 I promise it will be posted at some point today!

                                FFN ----- AO3 ----------