Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[VSS]

And as for the whole regs debate, I'm with you guys. I honestly don't see any problems with the real relationship between them now when Jack isn't Sam's immidiate superior. Besides we don't really know technical details of the position he holds, do we? I mean I read a fanfic once where the Head of Homeworld Security was a presidential nomination, not strictly Air Force, and I think it would make sense if that was the case, and not only because of the ship.

Now that's something I had totally forgotten to mention, but you're right. We don't know- we all assume he's the director of HWS (like General Hammond) but it's never been mentioned. Furthermore, since that position was created the IOA has come on the scene and that confuses things even further.

I think they deliberately left Jack's position somewhat vague so that the whole CO issue couldn't come up again. In fact, I asked JM on his blog about that- but he didn't answer me.

[Regularamanda]

Because she thinks they haven't yet, which is my slightly more pessimistic take on that.



Ugh. More depressing news. I think I'll go back to bed. Except for that new ep I have to post in an hour or so.



Yes! I think this is where he first says "Something of the host must survive." So Daniel has hope. But then they're not able to get the goa'uld out of Kawalsky, and his hopes are dashed, yet again. I wish we'd seen more of Daniel's reaction to that- after Kawalsky died. There really should have been more. I didn't even realize how angsty this was for him until you pointed it out, and it really is a very important ep for this character.



Too bad we don't have an objective scale. I like to quantify things, like the nonrandom seating arrangement.

I actually don't see them filming in nov/dec as so depressing. I'd much rather wait a few extra months because then AT should be done filming the second season of sanctuary and definitely be fully in the movie. But that's just me, I'm pretty patient

I also really like 'Emancipation' a lot of people don't like it but I do, sure it wasn't the best script but I liked how it was acted for the most part. And then there's the whole 'you look great' from Jack, yup I like that ep

[majorsal]

Well, I'm just confused why they would want to portray the military as being so rigid that no relationships are allowed, period. Which as you say, isn't true. What's wrong with showing two people who managed to handle things responsibly? I don't get it. I remember something someone said (RealmofX I believe) that the regs don't exist to make people miserable. They're there to maintain "morale and good order," or something along those lines. Having to choose between your work and your love life is hardly maintaining good morale, especially when it's a false choice.

And that's what it is. It's a false choice. They don't have to pick between their jobs and their personal lives anymore. I'm not sure why everyone (AT included, evidently) thinks that they do.

through the years, i've often thought about where the ship could have went, if say, sam and jack had gotten together after 'divide and conquer'. i'd say by now, they'd be on child number three.

that might not be someone's cup of tea, but real life is real life, and this kind of stuff is going on everywhere on this planet. why couldn't stargate have portrayed this reality?

but anyways, i just try, TRY, to focus on what's ahead. doesn't always work, though, since i've been shipping for so long and my expectations (demands?) get more.

[majorsal]

I also really like 'Emancipation' a lot of people don't like it but I do, sure it wasn't the best script but I liked how it was acted for the most part. And then there's the whole 'you look great' from Jack, yup I like that ep

i loved 'emancipation'! it was the ep that turned me into a sam fan.

[VSS]

I actually don't see them filming in nov/dec as so depressing. I'd much rather wait a few extra months because then AT should be done filming the second season of sanctuary and definitely be fully in the movie. But that's just me, I'm pretty patient

I also really like 'Emancipation' a lot of people don't like it but I do, sure it wasn't the best script but I liked how it was acted for the most part. And then there's the whole 'you look great' from Jack, yup I like that ep

I guess I don't really dislike Emancipation that much, except that scene at the end really kills it for me. It's so fake.

You know what I really liked? The costumes. They are outstanding in this ep. The entire camp is really well-done.

through the years, i've often thought about where the ship could have went, if say, sam and jack had gotten together after 'divide and conquer'. i'd say by now, they'd be on child number three.

that might not be someone's cup of tea, but real life is real life, and this kind of stuff is going on everywhere on this planet. why couldn't stargate have portrayed this reality?

but anyways, i just try, TRY, to focus on what's ahead. doesn't always work, though, since i've been shipping for so long and my expectations (demands?) get more.

Well, I am heartened by the fact that CB is writing this. He's supposed to be good with mature adult relationships. And it's not too late to write it the way you want- with them married, at least. In fact, it would have been the most logical thing for them to have done considering it they would never have to worry about the regs again. And there are a few little bits that make me wonder if they are... but I wouldn't dare to be quite that hopeful, myself.

But TPTB might surprise us. You never know.

[majorsal]

Well, I am heartened by the fact that CB is writing this. He's supposed to be good with mature adult relationships. And it's not too late to write it the way you want- with them married, at least. In fact, it would have been the most logical thing for them to have done considering it they would never have to worry about the regs again. And there are a few little bits that make me wonder if they are... but I wouldn't dare to be quite that hopeful, myself.

But TPTB might surprise us. You never know.

i know what you mean... i've picked up some hints on that too... but i'm afraid to wish that far...

but as long as they're shown to be *together* in the 3rd movie, i'll squee my heart out.

[Amaunet]

Emancipation, I love this episode…I’ve always found it kinda cute. Even though I find it hard to get used to the early ‘feminist Sam’, I do think the writing makes a good point. There is still so much discrimination toward women out there, however small and insignificant it may seem it still exists. As woman I would personally do whatever necessary to prove myself as an asset to the team. I think Sam drops this act toward the end of the season when she discovers that she is a capable, productive member of SG1 who has earned the respect of her team mates.

Then there’s the dress scene. Jacks sticks around longer than the other guys- ostensibly to tease her but it’s telling how he takes one last glance back and tells her she looks great. And she doesn’t know quite what to make of that. In that conversation he also calls her “Samantha.” Does he call her that in Grace because it reminds her of the first time he really sees her as a woman? That’s why he does it in the Broca Divide, but Sam didn’t hear that. This time, she hears it.

I love this the POV on the matter, maybe it's his way of distinguishing between Soldier Sam (Carter), Scientist Sam (Carter and/or Sam) and Sam as a woman (Samantha)?

[Padme18]

Besdies the dress scene, I like the part after they rescue her:

I've never been so happy to see you guys.
Sure you have, remember that time on P3X-(can't remember number) you drank that stuff that made you
Let's not talk about that right now.

That was a great scene.

I think everyone else hit all the points already though.

[dipsofjazz]

You know what I really liked? The costumes. They are outstanding in this ep. The entire camp is really well-done.

Reading all your great posts about 'Emancipation' reminded me of a picture I took at the first Gabit convention for Amanda. One of Sam's outfits from this episode was up for auction, and my picture is of Amanda posing with it...

click for bigger

Well, I am heartened by the fact that CB is writing this. He's supposed to be good with mature adult relationships. And it's not too late to write it the way you want- with them married, at least. In fact, it would have been the most logical thing for them to have done considering it they would never have to worry about the regs again. And there are a few little bits that make me wonder if they are... but I wouldn't dare to be quite that hopeful, myself.

But TPTB might surprise us. You never know.

Even I am getting quite hopeful about the third movie. *crosses her fingers*

[VSS]

Besdies the dress scene, I like the part after they rescue her:

I've never been so happy to see you guys.
Sure you have, remember that time on P3X-(can't remember number) you drank that stuff that made you
Let's not talk about that right now.

That was a great scene.

I think everyone else hit all the points already though.

That was pretty funny. Wouldn't you have liked to have seen that little incident? It reminds me of that planet they gated to after Nemesis. The mind does wander....

Reading all your great posts about 'Emancipation' reminded me of a picture I took at the first Gabit convention for Amanda. One of Sam's outfits from this episode was up for auction, and my picture is of Amanda posing with it...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/dipsofjazz/odds/th_GabitAuction035copy.jpg

click for bigger

D Even I am getting quite hopeful about the third movie. *crosses her fingers*

Oh, cool! Did they sell the blue dress? I'd have liked a crack at that one.

I saw a museum exhibit of several costumes from Star Wars and BSG, among others. The viper pilot outfit was tiny. It must have been Boomer's. But it was really interesting how well made they all were. I guess they have to be to hold up to the rigors of filming.

The only one I ever had complaints about is that grey suit she wears in the opening scene of 2010. I can see the stitching pull across her back. But, that one I'd really pay money for, since that's my favorite ep.

[VSS]

The Broca Divide

Favorite Quote:
Sam: Don’t you want me?
Jack: No- no- not like this.
(You’ve heard of “Damning with faint praise.” This would be its opposite- “Encouraging with faint reproach.”)

Favorite scene: In the control room when Jack punches Daniel. It’s fascinating and a little scary to see Jack turn that fast. He’s normal one minute and completely whacked out the next.

Thanks, padme!

This is not one of my favorite episodes even though it’s got that hot locker-room kiss in it. I don’t like the goofy People of Light or how tormented Daniel, Jack and Sam look. I can’t help it, I don’t like any kind of whump.

It seems to me that every episode in Stargate SG-1 has a purpose. My little theory is that there’s either eye candy, social/technological commentary or development of a story arc. Rarely, we get all three- Heroes, 2010. The purpose of this ep is to set up the sexual tension between Jack and Sam. Here, we get eye candy and a story. Usually, the eye candy is a space battle or a cool set, but this time it’s Jack and Sam. Can anyone recall what they ran for commercial previews with this ep? I bet I know.

I’ve heard people comment that SG-1 seemed almost sexless- obviously they meant after the first season. Why don’t we see this kind of thing later on? I do think that the gratuitous full frontal nudity of CotG was unnecessary, but they could have ramped up the UST between our heroes more than they did, without crossing the line. Considering the situation, I’d have expected it. Their restraint was admirable, but frankly unbelievable, don’t you think?

Anyway, The Broca Divide is not a one-off ep about a virus that randomly caused them to want to jump each other. Janet was very clear that the virus shuts down the higher brain functions and lets pre-existing primitive behaviors manifest themselves. That’s the whole point of the soldier giving Teal’c the evil eye in the pre-mission briefing, and then attacking him after being infected. The virus disinhibited the soldier enough so he could act on the emotions he already had- and so it is with Jack and Sam.

Spoiler:

I do like the dark/light parts of the planet. Not all planets rotate, some rotate very slowly, as this one must have since the Stargate is located in the dark. I doubt they put it there in the beginning. But this is never explained in this ep. Too bad.

It bothers me how Jack and Daniel intend to let that obviously human girl be raped by the primitive. Maybe they’re recalling the trouble they got into last time they meddled in intersex affairs, but still. Daniel just analyzes it and Jack just doesn’t want to get involved. Go Sam!

Spoiler:

We get to meet Janet for the first time! Okay, so no one on this show uses a tourniquet when they stick needles in and out of a person’s vein but I’ll overlook that just because they did an excellent job on Jack’s facial injury. It changes throughout the episode. Really outstanding attention to detail, there.

And here we have what possibly is the most gif-ed scene in TV history (tied with the Grace kiss) - Sam jumping Jack in the locker room. I don't have the gif, of course. Is this why they eventually get segregated locker rooms?

Jack calls her Samantha, again because he’s thinking of her as a woman instead of a soldier or scientist. I hope we get to hear Jack call her “Samantha” once more, some day. I love Daniel’s line- “You poor man.” Not. I don’t think that Daniel ever developed romantic feelings toward Sam, but if he did, I’m sure what happened here helped him keep them to himself!

In this ep we also see how Jack is willing to put himself last for the good of the team, and for the other people at the SGC. He actually asks Janet to experiment on him. The cure is cheap and simple. The USAF thanks you for that, Dr. Frasier!

Nice ending. Tank top comment. Is that way over the line for a CO? He’s not under the influence of the virus at this point! I would think that it is over the line, especially so soon after his comment to her about the dress in Emancipation. And militant feminist Sam lets him get away with it! If this had been in the first episode, she’d have handed him his hat, if not his head. Well, it’s okay, Sam. We know why. You kinda like your CO, don’t you? Even if he is cocky, rude and doesn’t appreciate academics. He’s hot.

So do you think that after all these years Daniel has spilled the beans to Sam about Jack decking him in the control room over her, or is he still holding that little secret over Jack’s head?

Implications for Jack and Sam: Just in case we missed it, they find each other sexually attractive. Jack’s reaction to Daniel in the control room highlights exactly why it is that this kind of relationship is forbidden. It’s divisive, to say the least.

[josiane]

The Broca Divide

It seems to me that every episode in Stargate SG-1 has a purpose. My little theory is that there’s either eye candy, social/technological commentary or development of a story arc. Rarely, we get all three- Heroes, 2010. The purpose of this ep is to set up the sexual tension between Jack and Sam. Here, we get eye candy and a story. Usually, the eye candy is a space battle or a cool set, but this time it’s Jack and Sam. Can anyone recall what they ran for commercial previews with this ep? I bet I know.

Oh good theory

Anyway, The Broca Divide is not a one-off ep about a virus that randomly caused them to want to jump each other. Janet was very clear that the virus shuts down the higher brain functions and lets pre-existing primitive behaviors manifest themselves. That’s the whole point of the soldier giving Teal’c the evil eye in the pre-mission briefing, and then attacking him after being infected. The virus disinhibited the soldier enough so he could act on the emotions he already had- and so it is with Jack and Sam.

Absolutely, and this is exactly the purpose of the virus as plot device - it's to show us what would happen if our heroes had no self-control. And therefore it is very significant that the one thing they chose to demonstrate when the self-control was taken away is the attraction between Jack and Sam, and the effect that would have on the team if let loose (punch-up with Daniel). IMHO it's somewhat crudely done - as you say, as if we hadn't already realised, there is Sexual Tension here. It's practically in neon flashing lights But y'know, eye candy, so not really complaining However when I first saw this episode I cringed at the locker room scene. I really didn't like how they were handling Sam's character at first, and this was part of it. I still cringe, a little, but also squee at the same time now, because of the hindsight and knowing what this is foreshadowing.

Nice ending. Tank top comment. Is that way over the line for a CO? He’s not under the influence of the virus at this point! I would think that it is over the line, especially so soon after his comment to her about the dress in Emancipation. And militant feminist Sam lets him get away with it! If this had been in the first episode, she’d have handed him his hat, if not his head. Well, it’s okay, Sam. We know why. You kinda like your CO, don’t you? Even if he is cocky, rude and doesn’t appreciate academics. He’s hot.

I love the ending too I think it's the perfect way to deal with the implications of what happened, and I find it the shippiest part of the episode. It's not just that Sam jumped Jack and that he said he didn't want her like that, it's how they deal with the awkwardness. Sam feels awkward about it (prefiguring how she always feels when approaching Jack about her/their feelings - cf D&C and Threads for example), and Jack, in typical Jack-style, deflects with humour. But the humour he uses here is incredibly affectionate and a little bit flirty, and puts Sam at her ease about the situation while also taking some of the blame on himself, almost. You're right that Sam of CotG would not have let him get away with it, and that speaks hugely to their developing friendship and comfort levels with one another. He knows how far he can tease her, and she no longer takes offence. Love it

[Toomi]

I got a bit behind.... Just my comments on Emancipations, watching Broca Divide now

Fave Quote:
Jack: Damn, guess I'm gonna have to cancel that Oprah interview.
Teal'c: What is an Oprah? (just the way it's said, cracks me up every time)

Oppression of women. There are cultures out there who believe women do not have a place in the world other than to provide children and do the 'domestic' tasks. I understand that Sam is upset but she should figure it out pretty quick, even more so if she participated in the Gulf War. They would have (I'm assuming) given everyone briefs on what to do if they were captured by enemies and how as a woman she would have been treated.

Sam mentions going home, and doesn't look to comfortable when Daniel suggests they stay and will be fine once they learn their culture.

Love the cheeky grin Jack gives Sam when she states she isn't an anthropologist and Jack responds that she is today.

When they see Sam in the dress, Jack gives a big grin. I think he's amused to see the tough Sam Carter dressed like that. Daniel just appears shocked and perhaps a little awed.

Jack mentionns that they should head home. While he is amused at Sam's (or rather Samantha's) predicament and current dress, he shows genuine concern for her well being, asking her if she'll be alright. I belive that Sam's comment about not being afraid of the dark is perhaps a cover of her own nervousness. Perhaps it's Jack showing concern for her has her a little freaked out so she overcompensates.

Jack states quite firmly that a member of his team is gone, not a female member. For some reason I think this is important, but I don't know why....

By the time Sam is kissed by the other clan leader I bet she's very scared. She is helpless to stop it at this point. She has no weapons and the one time she tried to escape was caught. She knows that if the clan leader deeds it, she will be killed, just for being an independant woman. Despite that she still tells the other girl that things need to change.

When she spots her team coming to rescue her, she's genuinly happy, helping the girl to escape.

RDA on a horse? And do you think it was AT who did the riding? Or a stunt double? I really want to know what that other mission was... where she drank something that made her take off....???

When Sam wants to help the girl (Naya?) and Jack opposes, I really expect Daniel to back up Sam. I'm really suprised when he doesn't, asking if they have the right to question their customs. Given the Daniel Jackson I'm used to, that really threw me. I even had to go back and make sure I watched it right. He does come around, asking if there's an older law they can use.

The fight is good, well done. Jack is ok with Carter fighting, even giving her some cliches to start things off. As soon as he finds out it's a fight to the death he becomes concerned. I think that's more of a team leader thing. If someones gonna fight to the death, in his mind it's gotta be him. If Carter (or anyone) under his command died he would have to explain it and I think he'd rather die than let a team member die.

I did notice how Daniel still calls her Dr. Carter and when he enters her tent looking for her he calls 'Doctor' not Sam, Samantha, Captian or anything similar. I think JM said on his blog once that approximatly 2.5 weeks happen in between each episode (barring the 2 and 3 parters) and figuring out a timeline for Vala's pregnancy for another thread, that 2.5 weeks seemed very likely. If that's the case, it's been 5 weeks since COTG. Wouldn't Sam have told Daniel to call her Sam by now? To me this states that there's almost no interraction between them all after and between missions. I bet that they have the de-briefing, then head off their own ways. Jack probably heads home, Sam to her lab, Teal'c to his room and Daniel to his office/room (I don't know if they've given him an office yet but I'm assuming he has his own room and probably has not gone looking for an appartment)

OT, but it came to mind while watching this ep:

Spoiler:

I'm going waaaay of tangent perhaps here.... but this ep brings something to mind here and now. Recently, a female Canadian soldier was killed in Afghanistan. There was only one news report that headlined with 'Canadian soldier killed' all other stations emphasized that it was a Female soldier killed. The one station that didn't, talked about her career, family and goals, interviewing her superior officers, just the same as the other soldiers we have lost. The other stations chose to interview female soldiers in training, other female soldiers in Afghanistan and the family of another female soldier killed overseas. Despite the times changing, there is still an unequality in even 'developed' nations regarding women, not just in the military.

I'm just bringing this up because this ep made me think of it. Do any of the other SG teams have women? Do we think they do? If wonder if after the briefing there was any discussion about having women on teams because of cultural differences? Before I hated this ep, but now it has a little relevance for me.

Sam and Jack implications: This ep seems to show that while they are a team, the bonds between them all are still starting to form. Jack has a bond with Teal'c from COTG, two warriors, brothers in arms, that kind of thing. Daniel and Jack have a bond from the movie, but a very basic bond. Barely even the start of a friendship. Jack and Sam have almost no bond. Only the fact that they're on the same team and both in the Air Force. This ep, to me, shows that something is starting to form between them. She amuses him, he frustrates her. But they're sharing a laugh, getting along as two team mates.

[Aveo_amacus]

Toomi, I *think* it was AT but I'm not 100%
on Emancipation, I like the reference to a planet we didn't see, always made me think that there was more than we see - to the characters, the story etc.

VSS, I always took the dark side just to mean it was dark because of the dense forest but I like your take. Go Janet! That must be some first week (day???) on the job huh?!

[Toomi]

Yeah, I wonder if Janet was brought in recently or if she had perhaps been in the Mountain for a while, just taking a leadership role for this ep? Was it a role that they wrote, wanting a CMO? Or was Teryl just such a fantastic actress they had to keep her?

I love how she calls him Mr. Teal'c