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    S9 and s10 and even ark of truth all just felt like Sam was put in a corner to me, and as she's my favourite character I was none too happy, it just wasn't the same show. The only thing I did like was Sam was a happier, bubbler and more confident character and I like to think that's because all the UST has gone, she is happily married/in a relationship with Jack and work just becomes work, no other distractions
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      Originally posted by SGSuzi View Post
      S9 and s10 and even ark of truth all just felt like Sam was put in a corner to me, and as she's my favourite character I was none too happy, it just wasn't the same show. The only thing I did like was Sam was a happier, bubbler and more confident character and I like to think that's because all the UST has gone, she is happily married/in a relationship with Jack and work just becomes work, no other distractions
      bolding is mine.

      There were moments that really stood out for Sam in the later seasons...and moments that really didn't. I liked Vala, I really did - but I kind of felt like they did with her what they did with 7 of 9 when Jeri Ryan came aboard Star Trek: Voyager. The writers were so "you must like this character, she's new and cool and hot so let's put that blantantly in everyone's face" that they didn't pay attention to the established characters except for the way they interacted with the new one. (though admittedly, this was more obvious in Voyager).

      I liked Vala but I do think she was overused.

      As for the whole co-commanding thing, the ONLY reason that is okay in my personal shipper world is that Sam gave over TACTICAL command to Cam so that she can concentrate on fixing/making/inventing/solving or other Sam-type things rather than having to think about who's firing at what and what retreat strategy to have when under fire. Plus the additional paper work that comes with being team leader.

      For those of you who've watched a little amazing Canadian show called "Flashpoint", it's like how Eddie is the team leader, but Greg is the Sargent in charge of everything (the whole station).

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        Hey, can I have a link to the episode banner page?
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          Originally posted by picardythirds View Post
          As for the whole co-commanding thing, the ONLY reason that is okay in my personal shipper world is that Sam gave over TACTICAL command to Cam so that she can concentrate on fixing/making/inventing/solving or other Sam-type things rather than having to think about who's firing at what and what retreat strategy to have when under fire. Plus the additional paper work that comes with being team leader.
          That's a good way of looking at it, and I never thought about it that way. Thanks.

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            Originally posted by picardythirds View Post
            As for the whole co-commanding thing, the ONLY reason that is okay in my personal shipper world is that Sam gave over TACTICAL command to Cam so that she can concentrate on fixing/making/inventing/solving or other Sam-type things rather than having to think about who's firing at what and what retreat strategy to have when under fire. Plus the additional paper work that comes with being team leader.
            The only problem I have with that is that Mitchell has no TACTICAL experience! He's been a pilot his entire military career and the only commanding experience he would have is maybe a few years (or less) as squadron leader. Sam, on the other hand, has been the 2IC of SG-1 for seven years during which she was groomed for command by Jack and has about a year of experience actually commanding SG-1. Plus her stint at Area 51, where she was commander of Stargate R&D, although that is a different kind of command than leading a team through a wormhole to alien planets...

            Mitchell's whole backstory and the awe of Walter and whoever else was in the control room during the opening of season 9 was just ridiculous. There has been no mention of Mitchell even going through training for field combat, let alone for off-world missions and yet they give him command of the flagship team?! Yeah, right. If they had just given him a plausible background and toned down the hero worship (both towards him and his fan-boying of SG-1) it would have been a big improvement to his character, especially in light of Jack's comment in the past about anyone on an off-world team going through the proper training first.

            Not to mention that I don't really recall Mitchell actually making a lot of tactical decisions... he mostly deferred to the team and their off-world experience, which really doesn't give him any bonus points on his commanding skills in my opinion.
            Unmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
            Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
            On FFnet or AO3


            My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories.

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              I agree with all the comments about seasons 9 and 10 regarding lack of continuity, realism and general poor characterisations (don't get me started on the "co-command issue", it was clearly a blatant sexist decision on the part of TPTB, probably the studio, about a woman not being able to lead the show). The last two seasons just generally bug me so I ignore them mostly.
              Sam and Jack... Still the best romance on TV in years!


              My fanfic http://www.fanfiction.net/~drawntotherhythm

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                like most people, I never truly got to like Mitchell, i felt like he was trying to be too O'Neill. even though teal'c said in The Ties That Bind that Mitchell at times reminded him of O'Neill, I realized that no one can replace Jack. NO ONE. Granted he had some decent character moments, but it was like what Jack said in Lockdown was moot. Mitchell was about as green as Matthew Scott.

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                  Originally posted by Lt.Colonel John Sheppard View Post
                  like most people, I never truly got to like Mitchell, i felt like he was trying to be too O'Neill. even though teal'c said in The Ties That Bind that Mitchell at times reminded him of O'Neill, I realized that no one can replace Jack. NO ONE. Granted he had some decent character moments, but it was like what Jack said in Lockdown was moot. Mitchell was about as green as Matthew Scott.
                  It was almost like the 'hero' thing was used as a way to get around that, Jack telling him he could have any position he wanted if he got well again was a bit too over the top in my mind. I agree, he was completely trying to be Jack although Sam did have her moments too. The way she responded to Ba'al in S10 'The Quest' especially the scene where she hit him was very Jack influenced but I could overlook it with Sam, I could put it down to them spending lots of time together and his cynicism and sarcasm rubbing off on her.
                  Don't get it right, get it written - Unknown, they haven't decided who said it first
                  If you want something in life, you have to work for it

                  Turn off lights not in use, buy local produce where possible, recycle all you can. Help save YOUR planet.

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                    Originally posted by neverendingimagination View Post
                    It was almost like the 'hero' thing was used as a way to get around that, Jack telling him he could have any position he wanted if he got well again was a bit too over the top in my mind. I agree, he was completely trying to be Jack although Sam did have her moments too. The way she responded to Ba'al in S10 'The Quest' especially the scene where she hit him was very Jack influenced but I could overlook it with Sam, I could put it down to them spending lots of time together and his cynicism and sarcasm rubbing off on her.
                    Yes, I totally blame Mitchell's medication in the hospital for his delusions about the conversation with Jack and Sam supposedly handing him the Medal of Honor instead of the President.

                    I don't think Sam punching Ba'al (oh, we so need a gif of that) was too OOC for her because, damn, he was even grating on my nerves with his derisive comments about her intelligence and sex, and that she couldn't possibly be right about whatever it was she was searching for in that pole-thingy. Plus, she knows what Ba'al did to Jack (at least to some degree, I like to believe Jack told her all about it once they got together but prior to that she might only have the 'highlights') so punching him was probably very satisfying for her, especially when she would go home afterwards and tell Jack all about it.

                    Unmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
                    Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
                    On FFnet or AO3


                    My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories.

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                      Originally posted by fems View Post
                      Yes, I totally blame Mitchell's medication in the hospital for his delusions about the conversation with Jack and Sam supposedly handing him the Medal of Honor instead of the President.

                      I don't think Sam punching Ba'al (oh, we so need a gif of that) was too OOC for her because, damn, he was even grating on my nerves with his derisive comments about her intelligence and sex, and that she couldn't possibly be right about whatever it was she was searching for in that pole-thingy. Plus, she knows what Ba'al did to Jack (at least to some degree, I like to believe Jack told her all about it once they got together but prior to that she might only have the 'highlights') so punching him was probably very satisfying for her, especially when she would go home afterwards and tell Jack all about it.

                      Yes, I think she knows at least part of what Ba'al did to Jack and when Ba'al started being racist and sexist and erm speciesist - with her only being a lowly tau'ri female - it took her past her limits. Yup fems that punch must have been satisfying. We really do need a gif. It's one of my favourite S10 moments.
                      Don't get it right, get it written - Unknown, they haven't decided who said it first
                      If you want something in life, you have to work for it

                      Turn off lights not in use, buy local produce where possible, recycle all you can. Help save YOUR planet.

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                        Originally posted by neverendingimagination View Post
                        It was almost like the 'hero' thing was used as a way to get around that, Jack telling him he could have any position he wanted if he got well again was a bit too over the top in my mind. I agree, he was completely trying to be Jack although Sam did have her moments too. The way she responded to Ba'al in S10 'The Quest' especially the scene where she hit him was very Jack influenced but I could overlook it with Sam, I could put it down to them spending lots of time together and his cynicism and sarcasm rubbing off on her.
                        The problem is, if they wanted to use the 'hero' angle, they've got less reason to use it with Mitchell than for Jack. I thought it was played up because the show needed a lead character who was just as heroic as Jack and at least needed that form of recognition from the rest of the personnel so that he was 'worthy' to be in SG-1 and to lead it. Sure, Mitchell's brave deeds deserved to be recognised but not over-lauded. After all, didn't SG-1, or Jack here, at least (since we're doing this comparison) achieve that and more?

                        Or maybe I'm just getting protective of Jack now...
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                          Originally posted by Sparky She-Demon View Post
                          Hey, can I have a link to the episode banner page?
                          Yeah I would like to get the link too
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                            Originally posted by Ikorni View Post
                            The problem is, if they wanted to use the 'hero' angle, they've got less reason to use it with Mitchell than for Jack. I thought it was played up because the show needed a lead character who was just as heroic as Jack and at least needed that form of recognition from the rest of the personnel so that he was 'worthy' to be in SG-1 and to lead it. Sure, Mitchell's brave deeds deserved to be recognised but not over-lauded. After all, didn't SG-1, or Jack here, at least (since we're doing this comparison) achieve that and more?

                            Or maybe I'm just getting protective of Jack now...
                            That's a very good point. You're not being overprotective, Jack is Jack, no one can replace him.

                            I suppose from a production POV they felt they needed to replace the stoic hero figure that they were losing. This fear of changing the status quo and making the show different to what it was - they were losing RDA, there was no way it wasn't going to change. It would have been better if Cam had been allowed to be his own character, with his own sense of humour or distinctive personality trait. A brand new character for a new series, not a cheap copy.

                            (Apparently Ben Browder was going to be cast as John Sheppard but his Farscape film shooting schedule prevented him from filming Atlantis. That would have been awful, he's no Sheppard.)

                            *sneaks in gif (clickable thumbnail)*

                            Sam: (reluctantly) I need your help. Look I still think I'm right about the obelisk but I can't make head nor tails of its porgramming.

                            Ba'al - That's hardly surprising. I know where you're from you are considered relatively intelligent, but by galactic standards that's not really saying much. Wouldn't you agree?



                            Sam: You know if you're not gonna help, then you're really not much use to us. If you're not much use to us there's not really any point in keeping you alive much longer, wouldn't you agree?
                            Don't get it right, get it written - Unknown, they haven't decided who said it first
                            If you want something in life, you have to work for it

                            Turn off lights not in use, buy local produce where possible, recycle all you can. Help save YOUR planet.

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                              Originally posted by neverendingimagination View Post
                              *sneaks in gif (clickable thumbnail)*

                              Sam: (reluctantly) I need your help. Look I still think I'm right about the obelisk but I can't make head nor tails of its porgramming.

                              Ba'al - That's hardly surprising. I know where you're from you are considered relatively intelligent, but by galactic standards that's not really saying much. Wouldn't you agree?

                              http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r...psbc3bc841.gif

                              Sam: You know if you're not gonna help, then you're really not much use to us. If you're not much use to us there's not really any point in keeping you alive much longer, wouldn't you agree?
                              My bookmark for Youtube opens on that very video clip.
                              No Sam w/o a Jack and no Jack w/o a Sam.
                              It's like and immutable law of the multiverse.

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                                who is doing show and tell and when is it due again???

                                only asking cos I'm excited about posting my review for 1969.

                                also i have watched into the fire when i watched out of time along with 'samfan13, do you want me to wait until we start the season 3 rewatch or would you like the review to follow on, seeings as it is really just one big (gorgeous) episode
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                                Thanks to the wonderful Meredithe5 for the awesome sig

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