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**Toomi** · 08 April 2009, 07:12 PM

I had to watch the movie last night coz I won't have time tonight. Just watching COTG right now so just a movie post at the moment.

I love listening to commentaries and the version I have has a commentary done years after the fact so here's some stuff I grabbed from that :

Spoiler:

I saw the movie eons ago when it was in theaters. I was pretty young back then and in love with all things sci fi and Ancient Egyptian. It was a match made in heaven. I have only seen the movie maybe once since then and it was interesting to see how my opinions changed. I still appreciated the scenes between Skaara and O'Neil, but found myself disliking this version of O'Neil more and more. However, I was and still am a little shocked how close in looks James Spader and Micheal Shanks are.

I appreciate the movie because it ended up ultimatly giving us 10 wonderful years of SG-1.

Honestly, I have to rewatch it as I really don't remember what I watched. I know there's some Daniel and Jack moments but I really can't for the life of me remember what.

I love the scene with Jack and Skaara and the lighter and smokes. I don't know how old Skaara was supposed to be, but I'm guessing a late teen? It showed a side of Jack that I hadn't seen up till then, and really didn't see much of after.

As for implications for the Sam/Jack relationship.... Well, instead of commiting suicide, Jack came home and started to deal with his grief over Charlie/Tyler. His relationship with Sara deteriorated to the point where they divorced, but Jack managed to deal with it. Without the Stargate ever being used, or Jack having an involvement in it, I think Jack would've been dead. Either it was the adventure, Skaara, Daniel, something else, or the whole package, but it changed him into someone that could go on another day. While he isn't by any means ready for another relationship, he's ready to start facing life again.

**Oma-1** · 09 April 2009, 12:29 AM

Originally posted by VSS View Post

[CENTER]Now they know they can make the gate work, and now they need Jack O’Neil. The first time we meet him is when he’s sitting on his son’s empty bed with a gun, mulling over whether he should put it to use again. The USAF evidently picks him out because they know he’s suicidal, as it appears he’s been given medical leave. The military isn‘t portrayed in a favorable light in this movie, but fortunately that changes in the series. O’Neil is played by Kurt Russell and is much more of a harda** than our Jack. As O’Neill said in Secrets, this guy has “One ‘L’ and no sense of humor.” Which is good because only someone with machismo can look tough wearing that beret! Interestingly, I found out that the Green Berets include Special Forces and Air Force SERE forces (and they really wear green berets). These are exceptionally tough, dedicated men and even though Jack seems more laid-back in the series, I don't think this attitude ever goes away. Every now and then it pops up again, like in The Other Side. Does this affect his relationship with Sam?

Most definitely - I think it adds to her case of hero worship in the beginning. Add the green beret to him being the first man through the gate, how he protects all those people of Abydos ....

As she gets to know him better, the hero worship turns into a much deeper love because she understands that despite how tough he is, his emotions run deep underneath the bravado and humour. These decisions come at personal cost to him, and she respects that - even when she doesn't agree with the decision.

And are these two Jacks really different- or is O’Neil simply Jack at his lowest point- closed off from the world (including his wife) and suicidal?

They are different - but there are also similarities that help me to reconcile them. Their command style is different, but they both have that same calmness. They both have the same determination to see the mission through, but are prepared to adapt the mission parameters as the situation changes. They're both tough, committed, protective of their team. O'Neil does show occasional flashes of humour that through the movie become less (I'm struggling for the word here

) self-directed and bitter to being more sarcastic and having that same type of irreverance towards the enemy that O'Neill has.

At the last minute, Daniel refuses to go through the gate and leave Jack and the people of Abydos to their fate- unfortunately the evil USAF rigged the bomb so it couldn’t be disarmed. Daniel and Jack decide to ring the nuke up into Ra’s ha’tak that had just lifted off from Abydos. That’s why Jack ends up covering for Daniel in CotG. Daniel saves his life- but Daniel is also partially responsible for not blowing up the gate as planned.

Hmm, I'd not thought of it like that, I always assumed that Ra had it rigged....but I guess the USAF doing it makes more sense....just in case Jack decided at the last minute that he didn't want to die or let everyone else on the planet die...

I suppose it's as well that they did, otherwise the bomb would have been turned off. Ra would have left and no doubt returned with more Jaffa and decimated Abydos.

The last scene shows Jack going home through the gate. “See you around, Dr. Jackson.” As I said- the writers were not subtle at all.

At the very least, they had a sequel in mind.

Yeah, apparently Dean Devlin had it in mind as a trilogy. Remember the stir that kicked off when the series ended?

Fans panicking that DD would get to make his movies rather than our ptb

Implications of this episode for Sam and Jack: Establishes Jack’s back-story including the death of his son and his subsequent deep depression, as well as his connection to Daniel and Skaara. Despite his grudging respect for Daniel at the end of the movie, I think this is how Jack acquires his dislike for scientists.

Hmmm, I saw it as the opposite

Jack's initial treatment of Daniel and the other scientists shows he accords them no respect, so I think he's had run ins before with scientists getting in the way of him achieving his mission objectives.

Daniel teaches him that sometimes scientists are needed by the part he played in the mission, which I think helps him to accept Sam on the team later on.

Originally posted by leiasky View Post

Wow, nicely thought out! Good, meaty stuff to think about. Though, I don't think I can really compare much when it comes to the movie (intended to be a one shot) and the series, which is an inspired by spin off. Some things you just can't examine closely and try to keep to 'canon'. Canon, really, starts not with the original movie, but with Children of the Gods.

I see the movie as canon to a certain extent where it adds to understanding the Series. Like how the gate was found, how they figured out how it worked, the Abydos mission, killing Ra....

The other stuff I just ignore because its been superceded.

IIRC, I've read interviews by BW where he's said that some of the movie just didn't work for basing a series on so they changed some of it - such as the alien becoming the goa'uld, the jaffa being their incubators and the other discrepancies. The names I think were getting around copyright or some other legal reason....or maybe I'm remembering that wrong and it was just to put a distance between the movie and the series

Just wondering, where is Vala in your pretty graphic? If you're going to put Cam in, shouldn't Vala be there, too?

Um, yeah..... It didn't occur to me when I made it

Although... now that I think of it, how are we dealing with the canon fact that the team went back to 1969 (not my favorite episode) and met George Hammond there? Would he have remembered Sam from that short meeting and recognized her importance to Stargate Command?

Most assuredly. He knew she was needed not just in the mountain, but on SG-1. (Plus he remembered the cut on her hand which told him this was the mission he needed to give her the note

)

One of the reasons I love Stargate so much is because of the way future eps impact on the ones before (even if it wasn't written that way in the first place

). The more you watch, the more you see and understand . Even now after countless watchings, for me it's still a continuous learning curve

To me the movie is an important part of the SG universe. I'll admit to thinking it was really rubbish the first time I saw it (which wasn't until after S7

), but as I rewatched the seasons and caught all the back references to it, I've come to value it - especially since it kicked off this quirky little sci-fi show

**Oma-1** · 09 April 2009, 01:55 AM

Originally posted by VSS View Post

[I]Children of the GodsFavorite scene: On the ramp at the start of SG-1’s first mission when Jack says, “Oh, I adore you already.” Even my 10 yo son looked up at me and said, “He does!”. I like the whole scene, though, including when he gets impatient with her and shoves her into the event horizon.

Yep, that's my fave scene too

I haven’t watched any Stargate eps in a very long time and when the music started in, I thought, “Aw! I love this show.” Such a sentimental sap, I am! Joel Goldsmith did a wonderful job of adapting the original soundtrack. The music not only has more depth, it’s used much more effectively.

*nods* He really has a great understanding of how music affects the mood of what you're watching.

The infamous briefing room scene. I’ll let other shippers expound on that.

Oh alright, since you forced me.....

*cringe* I still do, everytime I watch it. But I'm cringing with this huge grin on my face

That line.....

I love the way Kawalksy and Ferreti attempt to show off their prowess and Sam shoots them down, I love Jack getting put in his place by Hammond and how he allows Sam to stake her claim

I am immensely grateful though that AT told tptb that women just don't talk like that put her stamp on Sam *phew*

This episode establishes everyone’s back-story fairly well except Sam, mostly because she doesn’t say much after the serious sparks we see flying in the briefing room scene. I do not for one moment believe TPTB didn’t ship these two from the start- and when you throw in the “I adore you already” line it’s either extraordinarily prescient or carefully calculated. Either way works for me.

Oh I don't know so much

Considering how little time the pilot had to establish the series and it's own canon being different from the Movie, Sam was established as someone who had active military service in her background, worked on the Stargate for 2 years before the Abydos mission and is the USAF's genius when it comes to all things about the Stargate, could hold her own in any situation and had plenty of experience in dealing with condescending men....that's not bad for one scene

I do understand now why they introduced Jacob in the next season. Compared to the others, Sam didn’t have enough angst. It’s apparent from the first few episodes that there’s the real risk that the defining struggle for this character is going to be her relationship with Jack by default, because they didn’t give her anything else. It seems to me that they broadened her back-story to be a problem with personal attachments in general, but was that enough? Is that stereotypical or was it chosen deliberately to dovetail with Jack’s personal fears? What else might they have done?

A little character development was made for Sam in the first Season, but it still hinged on her being a feminist - even the backstory of Jonas was to point out that Sam had reason to not trust military men.

She's a whole bag full of contradictions at the start of S1

Hero-worshipping Jack because of his service record and achievements, yet being scared of trusting him because of her experience with Jonas and Jack's perceived similarity to him. The relationship between Sam and Jack in S1 was about her overcoming that distrust to look upon Jack not just as the boss who gave her orders, but that he was her CO - a man she could trust and follow without question.

Then Jacob is introduced, and suddenly Sam's feminism and independence are put into context. You can see how much she loves her Dad, but how difficult that relationship is for both of them. Add in the angst of Jolinar, Jacob being terminally ill and Sam not being able to tell him why NASA is no longer her dream....Sam's become a lot more interesting as a character, and her purpose for being in the show doesn't just revolve around Jack

Where was I going with this? I've forgotten

Oh yeah, Sam having problems with personal attachment was stereotypical feminist I think, and meant to dovetail with Jack's problems. By S2 tptb realised that Sam needed more development in her own right.

Spoiler:

So, it’s only natural that Teal’c becomes the first shipper.

Spoiler:

With all those years of silent watching and assessing as First Prime, how could he not?

Implications for Sam and Jack: Putting the movie together with the pilot, it’s obvious that Jack is emotionally damaged goods. And it’s also obvious that he’s able to cover that up extremely well. He seems to like his 2IC well enough and is willing to give her a chance, but that’s about it. Sam, on the other hand, seems to have a serious case of hero worship.

Yep, plus there's sparks there, lots and lots of sparks

I'm sure that attraction lent a little to Jack's willingness to give her a chance - and added a little spice to Sam's hero-worship

**VSS** · 09 April 2009, 04:09 AM

Originally posted by Toomi View Post

I love listening to commentaries and the version I have has a commentary done years after the fact so here's some stuff I grabbed from that :

Spoiler:

As for implications for the Sam/Jack relationship.... Well, instead of commiting suicide, Jack came home and started to deal with his grief over Charlie/Tyler. His relationship with Sara deteriorated to the point where they divorced, but Jack managed to deal with it. Without the Stargate ever being used, or Jack having an involvement in it, I think Jack would've been dead. Either it was the adventure, Skaara, Daniel, something else, or the whole package, but it changed him into someone that could go on another day. While he isn't by any means ready for another relationship, he's ready to start facing life again.

D'oh!

*hits self up side of the head* Of course, that's the biggest impact of the story on our heroes, isn't it?! No Jack, no Sam/Jack romance. I kinda forgot about that little detail, didn't I?

Originally posted by Oma-1 View Post

They are different - but there are also similarities that help me to reconcile them. Their command style is different, but they both have that same calmness. They both have the same determination to see the mission through, but are prepared to adapt the mission parameters as the situation changes. They're both tough, committed, protective of their team. O'Neil does show occasional flashes of humour that through the movie become less (I'm struggling for the word here ) self-directed and bitter to being more sarcastic and having that same type of irreverance towards the enemy that O'Neill has.

I noticed that, too. Even in the movie, he's getting a little better.

Hmmm, I saw it as the opposite

Jack's initial treatment of Daniel and the other scientists shows he accords them no respect, so I think he's had run ins before with scientists getting in the way of him achieving his mission objectives.

Daniel teaches him that sometimes scientists are needed by the part he played in the mission, which I think helps him to accept Sam on the team later on.

Spoiler:

Originally posted by Oma-1 View Post

Oh I don't know so much

Considering how little time the pilot had to establish the series and it's own canon being different from the Movie, Sam was established as someone who had active military service in her background, worked on the Stargate for 2 years before the Abydos mission and is the USAF's genius when it comes to all things about the Stargate, could hold her own in any situation and had plenty of experience in dealing with condescending men....that's not bad for one scene

You're right, that's a lot of information on her! I guess I was thinking more about her personal issues, or lack thereof.

A little character development was made for Sam in the first Season, but it still hinged on her being a feminist - even the backstory of Jonas was to point out that Sam had reason to not trust military men.

She's a whole bag full of contradictions at the start of S1

Hero-worshipping Jack because of his service record and achievements, yet being scared of trusting him because of her experience with Jonas and Jack's perceived similarity to him. The relationship between Sam and Jack in S1 was about her overcoming that distrust to look upon Jack not just as the boss who gave her orders, but that he was her CO - a man she could trust and follow without question.

I just don't see this- maybe the distrust should be there- but I don't see it with Jack at all. I get the feeling she fully trusts him from the start. I don't see that her problem is military men, but rather some men in the military. I don't see how else she'd be able to survive in that kind of macho environment otherwise.

Then Jacob is introduced, and suddenly Sam's feminism and independence are put into context. You can see how much she loves her Dad, but how difficult that relationship is for both of them. Add in the angst of Jolinar, Jacob being terminally ill and Sam not being able to tell him why NASA is no longer her dream....Sam's become a lot more interesting as a character, and her purpose for being in the show doesn't just revolve around Jack

Where was I going with this? I've forgotten

Oh yeah, Sam having problems with personal attachment was stereotypical feminist I think, and meant to dovetail with Jack's problems. By S2 tptb realised that Sam needed more development in her own right.

Nicely put.

<snip>
These early eps don't show tptb in a very good light when it comes to writing strong women

Fortunately they improved dramatically!

BTW, I thought MS imitated JS brilliantly too

No, they don't, do they?

**Petra** · 09 April 2009, 06:35 AM

I don't have much to add after all yours excellent posts.

I just want to add that I especially agree about Sha're; Shauri from the movie was a much better character. And Daniel definitely realised that her abduction was his fault.

Originally posted by VSS View Post

I do understand now why they introduced Jacob in the next season. Compared to the others, Sam didn’t have enough angst. It’s apparent from the first few episodes that there’s the real risk that the defining struggle for this character is going to be her relationship with Jack by default, because they didn’t give her anything else. It seems to me that they broadened her back-story to be a problem with personal attachments in general, but was that enough? Is that stereotypical or was it chosen deliberately to dovetail with Jack’s personal fears? What else might they have done?

I know it's a heresy

but in the first season, until Solitudes, I didn't like Sam. She was much too one dimensional. I wasn't a shipper at the time - I became one circa season 3 - but I remember thinking: "great, typical American tomboy whose sole purpouse is to be a love interest". I wasn't impressed. It was in season 2, with the introduction of Jolinar and Jacob storylines, when Sam finally became a fully fleshed out character and I started to like her..and the more TPTB showed us of her, the more I liked her and the more sure I was that she was a perfect match for Jack.

But yes, in the 1 season I found her very stereotypical and not as developed as even Teal'c, and I thought Jack was the only reason she was created. I'll talk more about it in our Solitudes discussion. As for what would they have done..? I'm not sure, I'm happy with her development in season 2 and I wouldn't want it to change, but they coulndn't have introduce these alements in season 1 - it was much too early. And anyway, now that I know who Sam has become, I enjoy her season 1 incarnation as well

But I would have gotten rid of Jonas Hansen the fiance. That was too cliche.

There’s a nice scene of Daniel at Jack’s house, and we find out that Jack and Sara have divorced over Charlie’s death. But it’s clear from the movie that it’s not just Charlie’s death- it’s also Jack’s reaction to it that contributes to the divorce, and given that he’s still got Sara and Charlie’s picture around in LC, I’m assuming she’s the one who divorced him. Is that going to affect how he reacts to Sam or any other woman?

As I said in my post about the movie, Jack is extremely closed off emotionally and I think this, combine with his inability to talk about his feelings, was the real reason Sara left him. I think he realises it too, and it makes him that much more insecure in his relationships. I also think that at this point, he's still in love with Sara.

And why did they rename Charlie? He was Tyler in the movie. Was it because of Charlie Kawalsky- to make him appear closer to Jack than he was in the movie? In the movie it seemed like they didn’t know each other at all. They weren’t that close were they? Or is it just another unfortunate slip up like the two Jonases and Sarah/Sara? I mean come on, at this point there’s hardly any canon to forget!

I have no idea why they changed the name, but I'm kinda glad they did. I like Charlie better.

Plus the implication is clear to me..
As for Kowalsky (yes, this is the correct spelling) not knowing about Jack's son..in terms of plot it doesn't make sense. It's clear that Jack and Kowalsky are close friends and know each other very well, from Kowalsky's line in Gamekeeper about playing hokey together I assume they had been spending a lot of time together (in Gamekeeper they were both captains, so I guess there wasn't anything inappropriate in their friendship since most of the time they had equak rank) outside of work..also remember than in season 7's Evolution Burke says that his (Burke) and Jack's family hanged out together, so it wasn't anything uncommon..

All this rambling above means that I believe Charlie was named after Kowalsky and knew about it. The line about not knowing happened because of the technical reasons. It was the pilot, TPTB wanted to establich Jack's backstory (as it would be needed 4 episodes later) but there wasn't really a character available who could comment on it. Daniel didn't appear yet, and anyway he got a conversation about Sara/ Jack blaming himself, so that was enough. All the other characters from the movie except Kowalsky and Ferretti were gone, and it wouldn't be plausible if Jack talked about his son with the strangers. So it was down to Charlie and Lou, and Kowalsky was better established/fleshed out..simple choice. Besides the same conversation introduced Skaara.

The final scene always makes me grin. Notice how all the male refugees gather around to thank Carter and the women head for Jack!

I haven't noticed, but oyu are right! But really, can you blame them?

Implications for Sam and Jack: Putting the movie together with the pilot, it’s obvious that Jack is emotionally damaged goods. And it’s also obvious that he’s able to cover that up extremely well. He seems to like his 2IC well enough and is willing to give her a chance, but that’s about it. Sam, on the other hand, seems to have a serious case of hero worship.

Yep, this just sums it up

**gater62** · 09 April 2009, 06:53 AM

I think in terms of VSS' post on Jack not trusting scientists, I think he sees them as unrealistic idealists that have no idea how things work in real life. They come up with all these grandiose plans, explanations, technology, but don't think about how it will impact "people" or actually help them accomplish goals. You know, science for the sake of science rather than seeing how it will impact what is actually happening around them.

Ok, enough rambling for the moment.

**Sappho** · 09 April 2009, 12:58 PM

As for implications for the Sam/Jack relationship.... Well, instead of commiting suicide, Jack came home and started to deal with his grief over Charlie/Tyler. His relationship with Sara deteriorated to the point where they divorced, but Jack managed to deal with it. Without the Stargate ever being used, or Jack having an involvement in it, I think Jack would've been dead. Either it was the adventure, Skaara, Daniel, something else, or the whole package, but it changed him into someone that could go on another day. While he isn't by any means ready for another relationship, he's ready to start facing life again. [/COLOR]

Very good point. Brings entirely deeper meaning to what I've sometimes suspected Jack meant in -- what was episode was it... "Affinty"? Sam says, "If things were different?" and Jack replies, "I wouldn't be here." No Stargate program, no Jack.

**leiasky** · 09 April 2009, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by Sappho View Post

Very good point. Brings entirely deeper meaning to what I've sometimes suspected Jack meant in -- what was episode was it... "Affinty"? Sam says, "If things were different?" and Jack replies, "I wouldn't be here." No Stargate program, no Jack.

And I took that to mean; if he was with Sam, he wouldn't be there at the SGC. But Sam took it a different way because the conversation had come on the heel of the question about 'kids' and a 'family'.

I think Jack's vague answer completely meant he was talking about her, where she thought he was talking about his ex and son.

But really intersting thought that if the Stargate program didn't exist, Jack would have killed himself and he really 'wouldn't be here'.

**VSS** · 10 April 2009, 08:04 AM

The Enemy Within

Favorite Quote: “Like bugs on a windshield.”
Favorite Scene: I like the iris scene. Between the iris bulging and the whumping sound, you don’t need to see what’s going on to know. It’s graphic enough. The rest of the ep is too angst-ridden for me.

Thanks, RegularAmanda!

There’s a lot more to this ep than meets the eye. That’s the nice thing about a rewatch. You know the story, so you can pay attention to details. Again, Sam is on the sidelines (this time along with Daniel). But we learn a lot about Jack through his interactions with Teal’c and Charlie Kawalsky, and find out more about the goa’uld.

Jack is amused by the Jaffa smacking the iris. This is one of those times, like in The Other Side, when we’re reminded that Jack has a pretty hardcore military history. If you’re the enemy, he doesn’t give a damn what happens to you. He’s not going to sit around and wonder if iris-smacking violates the Geneva Convention.

Jay Acovone does some great acting here as Kawalsky. But Jack has a very hard time with deep personal feelings- the stereo joke is one of many examples where he uses humor as a defense mechanism. He doesn’t do that very much with Sam, as time goes by though, does he? I’m trying to figure that out. Is it because his feelings for her eventually become too deep for him to even joke about it? Is it because Kowalsky is a guy and it’s a guy thing? Is it because he can hide behind his rank with her but can’t in this situation? Given our discussions from a couple of days ago, I’m going to assume that he and Charlie have been very good friends for many years, and Charlie’s not going to be the “good soldier” for Jack any more than he was for General Hammond. Anyway, I think this episode is the reason why their relationship was written that way, because they were basically strangers in the Stargate movie. It made his death seem more tragic.

Spoiler:

Again, not a lot of S/J going on here- except the FIRST gratuitous touching moment (GTM?) right after she gets whacked by Kawalsky and they’re sitting in the briefing room. Just so Jack can make sure she’s all right. Well, she’s just been to the infirmary, Jack! Of course she’s fine. But you just have to make sure, don’t you? (Sometimes I talk to the characters. Sorry!) I have to say that totally looks like something RDA just decided to do on the spot because it looks very natural. The chemistry in this ship is just amazing- really that’s what makes it work so much of the time, thanks to the actors.

BTW, this is the first ep in which we see just the four of them together in the briefing room. In this ep we see it twice, and Jack and Sam are already sitting by each other. Just for fun, I’m keeping a running odds of that being a random seating arrangement. So far, the chance is only 11%. Something tells me that’s only going to get lower as time goes by. Is the director in charge of this, or do the actors just sit where they want? I’ve no clue.

People say Jacob was sacrificed for the ship- but wasn’t Kawalsky sacrificed for the team? He’s not on SG-1 and the writers wanted to develop strong ties between the team members- to make them like a family- and it would be harder to do that if Jack’s really good friend is already a part of the SGC but on another team. Also, Jack gives the order that kills him. Is there a parallel between this and what he does to Sam in Entity? At the very least, it shows that Jack can set aside his personal feelings when he has to, which ought to be both an example and a warning to the other members of his team. The way he walks away from Kawalsky’s dead body on the ramp is almost chilling. He’s an expert at burying his feelings. Yet, the way he’s there for Charlie, and the way he stands by Teal’c is evidence that he cares. Quite a lot, actually. But boy, can he shut down when things get a little rocky.

By contrast, Sam seems like she’s so set on being the good soldier that she comes across as a bit detached in the conversations with Daniel about Sha’re.

Nice ending to this ep- here finally we have The Team going through the gate. Ever since the briefing room scene in CotG, there hasn’t been much S/J interaction, but that’s been necessary to establish the other characters, including General Hammond. No one does righteous indignation better than George, and he’s also obviously had plenty of experience with guys like Jack.

Don Davis did a great job with General Hammond, we were lucky to have him.

Implications for Sam and Jack: Jack’s basic method of dealing with his deepest emotions is denial, and if he ever manages to express anything at all, it’s with actions and not words. But it’s actions that can get Jack and Sam in trouble. It seems to me that it’s these two factors that ultimately explain why he’s unable to communicate his deepest feelings to her. And right now, she’s not a whole lot better, in fact, she may be worse!

**Toomi** · 10 April 2009, 09:17 AM

I got behind! But here's my thoughts on COTG. Watching Enemy Within now....

Fave Quote: Jack (to Major Samuels?) : They could be blowing their noses right now!

Considering they had a movie about 2 years old to contend with, it seemed to be a pretty good transition. I didn't watch this when it first came out but for those who did, did you notice the inconsistencies between the TV series and the movie? Was it something distracting to the show? I find it more distracting for the movie as it was quite a few years before I saw SG-1, and even then I started at Entity, watching season 1 a while later. I basically disregarded the movie, enjoying it as a standalone, but not as a part of the series other than providing some basic background.

I liked how Jack was found on his roof, staring at the stars. I think he was probably into astronomy years ago, and just enjoys an evening on the roof, with a beer, just him and the night sky. I also like how he tosses the kleenex through the gate for Daniel, saying he would know who it was. I laughed when the 'send more' was written on the box on its way back.

Ah, the briefing room scene. Quite possibly one of the few scenes I can barely watch. The whole scene bugs me. I understand they had to introduce Sam Carter in some way, and while the mistake Jack makes about Sam being a guy is funny for about 2 seconds, that's it for me. The rest feels forced, unnatural, wrong somehow. I don't like how Sam jumps in and interrupts Jack while he's talking, trying to push her credentials. I get it, she's eager, wants to make sure she doesn't get shoved aside, but given he's a superior officer she shouldn't be talking to him like that? Hammond doesn't stop it right away, and that bugs me too. I don't think that's the characters, just at that point, poor writing, or perhaps given that it's a brand spanking new show the writers just didn't have a feel for her yet. I wonder how that scene would be different if they were to re-write it now?

Close to the end of the scene Jack makes a 'Mr. Glass is half empty' comment and Sam grins at his response. Why did they chose to show that? To show she has a sense of humour? Or to show that under all her 'pushiness' and 'eagerness' she's still a person underneath.

I can't talk about that anymore, I'll just get myself into trouble

Again, I really don't think it has anything to do with the characters, just poor writing or the characters not being the characters we're used to for so long.

I hate the nudity scene too... I really don't think it was necessary, but that's just me....

Jack and Daniel at Jack's place. Daniel had just lost his wife and I think that somwhere in him Jack feels sorry for him, not just as a man to a man, but more like a friend to a friend. He could have easily left him somewhere, at the base, at a hotel, said good night and gone on with his evening. Instead he asked the guy back to his place for a drink.

I liked how Daniel kept trying to tell Jack what the symbols on the DHD on Chulak meant and Jack just brushed him off. Completely uninterested at this point in whatever cultural insight or comments Daniel wants to share.

I found it interesting that when Daniel tries to show Teal'c where they're from by drawing it in the dirt, Teal'c takes his staff weapon and 'erases' the drawing. A throwback to the movie where writing was forbidden? Or just Teal'c wanting to erase evidence that he spoke to them?

After Skaara goes through the wormhole Jack seems pretty cut up. He went to Chulak to rescue Skaara, not Sha're and he failed. Skaara is now a goa'uld. Whether he likes it or not, Jack now shares a task with Daniel.

Daniel doesn't know the code to get home? Sam tells him to hurry up, yeah I'm sure it's something written to drive up the suspense but really?

Overall, COTG is probably one of my least favourite episodes. I understand it was the pilot but most of the charaters just don't feel right.

For Sam and Jack. Well, it starts off rocky! Jack reveals he doesn't like scientists so thats one strike against her. They butt heads at the very first meeting but as things go along Jack just deals with the fact he has a scientist Captain on his team.

**Toomi** · 10 April 2009, 09:59 AM

Enemy Within.

Discussion with Sam and Daniel regarding the Iris. Sam gives an answer, when Jack reasks the question. She answers fully. Jack is already starting to accept Sam for who she is.

Discussion with Hammond about Teal'c. What Hammond says is right. First alien species we come across (if we haven't already

) we will more than likely want to study, not make friends with.

Daniel in the briefing room, sloooooooow talker. I never noticed that before!!!! That's probably the slowest he's ever talked!

I like the bit about the primative planet where humans were taken from.
Anyone watch Farscape? (spoilery if you haven't seen PeaceKeeper Wars);

Spoiler:

Sam and Daniel seem to have become friends. It makes sense, just given their personalities. Daniel also needs someone to talk to and I think Sam would recognize that and be there to try and comfort him. Plus Daniel has been away from Earth for a year or so and won't be in contact with any other friends, if he had many before he got involved with the Stargate.

Then comes the debate about destroying one life form to save another. Again, another dilemma. We 'know' the team, 'know' Charlie, and want this goa'uld larvae out of him. However, Colonel Kennedy points out something that would be a very common thought I think if something like this really were to happen. We would want to study it, we would want to talk to it. Where would we (as in the collective 'we') draw a line?

First Wizard of Oz reference? After Kawalsky's surgery Jack says 'Wake up Dorothy, it was all a dream'.

For Sam and Jack. Jack shows some concern in the briefing room by shooting Sam a little glance. Perhaps that is me stretching it, but as a team leader it would be something for him to be concerned about. If he didn't care for his team members he wouldn't be a good team leader. I think as of now, Jack considers Sam part of his team, perhaps he's still a little unsure of her, but giving her a chance.

**Toomi** · 10 April 2009, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by VSS View Post

Jack is amused by the Jaffa smacking the iris. This is one of those times, like in The Other Side, when we’re reminded that Jack has a pretty hardcore military history. If you’re the enemy, he doesn’t give a damn what happens to you. He’s not going to sit around and wonder if iris-smacking violates the Geneva Convention.

Both Jack and Teal'c don't seem to be bothered at all that Jaffa are dying hitting the iris, however, Daniel seems shocked that it is Jaffa as though the idea of sending living beings never occured to him.

Originally posted by VSS View Post

People say Jacob was sacrificed for the ship- but wasn’t Kawalsky sacrificed for the team? He’s not on SG-1 and the writers wanted to develop strong ties between the team members- to make them like a family- and it would be harder to do that if Jack’s really good friend is already a part of the SGC but on another team. Also, Jack gives the order that kills him. Is there a parallel between this and what he does to Sam in Entity? At the very least, it shows that Jack can set aside his personal feelings when he has to, which ought to be both an example and a warning to the other members of his team. The way he walks away from Kawalsky’s dead body on the ramp is almost chilling. He’s an expert at burying his feelings. Yet, the way he’s there for Charlie, and the way he stands by Teal’c is evidence that he cares. Quite a lot, actually. But boy, can he shut down when things get a little rocky.

I don't know if there's a parallel between the two situations, just situations that happened. Jack knows what has to be done, and knew Kawalskys wishes (die in surgery or come out of with no Goa'uld) so he did it. When it comes to Entity, I think there was a lot more of a hesitation before he delivered that second shot to Sam. With Kawalsky, Jack kept on his military face until the 'deed' was done, then you can see him react to his friend dying. With Entity, Jack's feelings were almost written on his face before he shot Sam, almost the moment he knew what he had to do. But yes, the moment he states his friend died in surgery, he does shut down. It's almost as though you can see him closing his emotions off.

Originally posted by VSS View Post

By contrast, Sam seems like she’s so set on being the good soldier that she comes across as a bit detached in the conversations with Daniel about Sha’re.

I thought that it was perhaps the scientist in her jumping out and forgetting temporarily that there were people that they cared about that this could benefit.

**VSS** · 10 April 2009, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by Toomi View Post

<snip>
I hate the nudity scene too... I really don't think it was necessary, but that's just me....

Spoilers for the CotG re-release:

Spoiler:

I found it interesting that when Daniel tries to show Teal'c where they're from by drawing it in the dirt, Teal'c takes his staff weapon and 'erases' the drawing. A throwback to the movie where writing was forbidden? Or just Teal'c wanting to erase evidence that he spoke to them?

I think it's the latter. Plus, I don't think he wants the goa'uld to know where these advanced warriors came from. I like it, too, though. It shows that writers thought about the details.

Daniel doesn't know the code to get home? Sam tells him to hurry up, yeah I'm sure it's something written to drive up the suspense but really?

I think of this as a transitional scene. On Abydos it took days to figure out how to get home. Now Daniel has to spend a few minutes leafing through a notebook. Next time they go off world they'll dial home as if they already know the address. How did they do it so quickly here when every planet is supposed to have its own unique collection of symbols? The fact is, they had to dump that concept of gate addresses. They never give a reason for it- just like how they suddenly stop freezing going through the gate- but the fact of the matter is that the constellations around earth look different depending on where you are in the universe, and it's impractical to have a different earth address for every planet. So they are easing away from that concept without explaining it, because they can't.

Originally posted by Toomi View Post

Enemy Within.

Discussion with Sam and Daniel regarding the Iris. Sam gives an answer, when Jack reasks the question. She answers fully. Jack is already starting to accept Sam for who she is.

Yes, this is an interesting scene. He never questions her knowledge, only the explanation. I was going to say that's just because he delegates responsibility well, but that's not true. He doubts Daniel at times. He never doubts Sam.

Then comes the debate about destroying one life form to save another. Again, another dilemma. We 'know' the team, 'know' Charlie, and want this goa'uld larvae out of him. However, Colonel Kennedy points out something that would be a very common thought I think if something like this really were to happen. We would want to study it, we would want to talk to it. Where would we (as in the collective 'we') draw a line?

That's a good question, because Colonel Kennedy has a point. He's not necessarily wrong, it's just that his viewpoint differs from Jack's. And, eventually, from Hammond's. Also, I like his stern-looking assistant. I don't know why, but she lends a touch of realism to the whole initial interrogation scene.

Originally posted by Toomi View Post

Both Jack and Teal'c don't seem to be bothered at all that Jaffa are dying hitting the iris, however, Daniel seems shocked that it is Jaffa as though the idea of sending living beings never occured to him.

Someone earlier mentioned Daniel's naivete. It sure shows here, doesn't it?

**Toomi** · 10 April 2009, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by VSS View Post

Spoilers for the CotG re-release:

Spoiler:

Originally posted by VSS View Post

I think of this as a transitional scene. On Abydos it took days to figure out how to get home. Now Daniel has to spend a few minutes leafing through a notebook. Next time they go off world they'll dial home as if they already know the address. How did they do it so quickly here when every planet is supposed to have its own unique collection of symbols? The fact is, they had to dump that concept of gate addresses. They never give a reason for it- just like how they suddenly stop freezing going through the gate- but the fact of the matter is that the constellations around earth look different depending on where you are in the universe, and it's impractical to have a different earth address for every planet. So they are easing away from that concept without explaining it, because they can't.

Hmmmm. I never thought of it like that. I always assumed that Earth's address was always the same, at least the first 6 symbols and the seventh being the point of origin which would differ with each planet and they would have that one from dialing to that planet to begin with. If you think of it with different symbols for Earth for each planet, it would make sense that they would struggle to get back in a hurry.

As for freezing when they go through the gate, didn't they try to explain that away in a later ep? Something to do with a DHD and as Earth doesn't have one there's some freezing involved, but they had to fine tune their computers and lo and behold the freezing dissapeared? Thinking on that line, when they come back from Chulak at the end of COTG they didn't seem too frozen.

**VSS** · 10 April 2009, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by Toomi View Post

Spoiler:

Hmmmm. I never thought of it like that. I always assumed that Earth's address was always the same, at least the first 6 symbols and the seventh being the point of origin which would differ with each planet and they would have that one from dialing to that planet to begin with. If you think of it with different symbols for Earth for each planet, it would make sense that they would struggle to get back in a hurry.

As for freezing when they go through the gate, didn't they try to explain that away in a later ep? Something to do with a DHD and as Earth doesn't have one there's some freezing involved, but they had to fine tune their computers and lo and behold the freezing dissapeared? Thinking on that line, when they come back from Chulak at the end of COTG they didn't seem too frozen.

I can't recall them ever explaining the freezing. In Emancipation they suddenly come through the gate without being cold at all.... maybe it's a behind-the-scenes explanation? I can't say I know the eps that well, though.

The gate address thing is one of the pivotal concepts in the movie. That's why they couldn't immediately complete the mission and return. It took Daniel many days and help from Sha're to finally figure out the return address. Every symbol on the Abydos gate is different from ours. Daniel told West and O'Neil he could come up with the return address, but it was actually not easy to find. Especially the point of origin, which was that little piece that had eroded away. Interestingly, if they'd used the data from the MALP, they might have been able to figure it out in advance, except for the point of origin.

Near the start of TEW, you can see Sam standing in front of a little box on the whiteboard, exactly like Daniel drew in the movie. Then she draws in the seventh point, just like he did. Again, there's a visual connection to the movie, but in the series they simply can't use that model anymore. So they do transition to a system where our gate address in the same every time, except for the point of origin.

So, the SGC supercomputers not only had to compensate for stellar drift, they had to translate the entire list of addresses into our coordinates- and that's why they could only spit out two or so a month, as Sam mentioned. That would be hard to do, much harder than just stellar drift alone.

There's no way to know the point of origin of any planet in advance, either, even later on. There are only 32 symbols on the gate- they've visited way more than 32 planets. But you made a good point about Teal'c looking at our point of origin. He immediately knew it was not in the goa'uld system. So somehow, there must be a list of those somewhere.

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