Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[hlndncr]

hlndncr, you're in danger! We're so going to expect drabbles for each episode rewatch now.

We'll see.

[meredithe5]

Thanks for the review of The Enemy Within meredith!

I don't really care for this episode. It was a necessary follow up to the pilot and our chance to learn a little more about Teal'c and the series mythos. But it falls flat for me because a lot of what is established here is later contradicted or ignored, which is typical of early episodes in any series.

I do like the relationship between Teal'c and Jack established in the pilot and further developed here.

Favorite lines:

If I had killed you then I would not be here now.
Neither would I.

Favorite scene:

The team together on the ramp ready to embark on their first real mission together through the gate.

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/...artJourney.jpg

I admit that the almost complete lack of S/J interaction makes this episode far less interesting for me, but the little touch in the briefing room is nice.

Here's a little drabble to add a little shippy rosa to that moment:

Spoiler:

Sam was humiliated.

She had been taken hostage by Kawalsky, knocked senseless in the elevator, and rescued by the Colonel. Yes, Kawalsky was being controlled by an infant Goa’uld that gave him an enormous boost of strength, and Sam had done her best to stop him, but she still hated how the whole thing made her look weak and ineffective.

Sam sat in the briefing room staring straight ahead, trying not to look at the Colonel beside her while they waited for the briefing to begin. She could just imagine what he must be thinking. When she first entered this room she had challenged him and insisted that she could handle anything he could handle. Now she was concerned he might use this incident as an excuse to pull her off his team.

Everyone around the table stood when General Hammond entered the room. As Sam resumed her seat, she felt the Colonel’s hand on her arm. Turning toward him he whispered, “Good to have you back, Captain.” He smiled and she saw the sincerity in his eyes. She smiled lightly and turning her attention back to the General she considered that perhaps there was more to this new CO then she had previously considered and she just might like knowing him better.

Lovely little drabble... gives us that little dose of shippyness

[SGSuzi]

hlndncr, you're in danger! We're so going to expect drabbles for each episode rewatch now.

Absolutely, we want Drabble for every episode now

[RamonaThePest]

Thanks for the review of The Enemy Within meredith!

I don't really care for this episode. It was a necessary follow up to the pilot and our chance to learn a little more about Teal'c and the series mythos. But it falls flat for me because a lot of what is established here is later contradicted or ignored, which is typical of early episodes in any series.

I do like the relationship between Teal'c and Jack established in the pilot and further developed here.

Favorite lines:

If I had killed you then I would not be here now.
Neither would I.

Favorite scene:

The team together on the ramp ready to embark on their first real mission together through the gate.

I admit that the almost complete lack of S/J interaction makes this episode far less interesting for me, but the little touch in the briefing room is nice.

Here's a little drabble to add a little shippy rosa to that moment:

Spoiler:

Sam was humiliated.

She had been taken hostage by Kawalsky, knocked senseless in the elevator, and rescued by the Colonel. Yes, Kawalsky was being controlled by an infant Goa’uld that gave him an enormous boost of strength, and Sam had done her best to stop him, but she still hated how the whole thing made her look weak and ineffective.

Sam sat in the briefing room staring straight ahead, trying not to look at the Colonel beside her while they waited for the briefing to begin. She could just imagine what he must be thinking. When she first entered this room she had challenged him and insisted that she could handle anything he could handle. Now she was concerned he might use this incident as an excuse to pull her off his team.

Everyone around the table stood when General Hammond entered the room. As Sam resumed her seat, she felt the Colonel’s hand on her arm. Turning toward him he whispered, “Good to have you back, Captain.” He smiled and she saw the sincerity in his eyes. She smiled lightly and turning her attention back to the General she considered that perhaps there was more to this new CO then she had previously considered and she just might like knowing him better.

I'm curious, which plot, storyline, physics, etc. do you consider contradicted? (Of course the Kawalsky-Oneill relationship, but besides that?)

[meredithe5]

The relationship between Kawalsky and O'neill personally confuses me a little after watching this episode. In the first two episodes they make it seem like they don't know each other very well and then they talk about their relationship later in the series and show a deeper relationship. Didn't Jack name his son after Kawalsky and didn't he know about Jack's son during the original movie? Maybe it's just me... I've only watched the movie once.

[selene0789]

The relationship between Kawalsky and O'neill personally confuses me a little after watching this episode. In the first two episodes they make it seem like they don't know each other very well and then they talk about their relationship later in the series and show a deeper relationship. Didn't Jack name his son after Kawalsky and didn't he know about Jack's son during the original movie? Maybe it's just me... I've only watched the movie once.

Well, in the movie Jack's son wasn't Charlie. I think his name was Tyler. The movie didn't really expound on the relationships between military guys, but it could be that Jack and Charlie were comrades for years before Jack had Charlie and Sara. I know sometimes it can be years between servicemembers meet up again, but the trust still remains.

It is true though, CotG does make it seem like they're more formal than friends. But I'll forgive them considering they brought Charlie back and fleshed out the friendship a little more later on.

[hlndncr]

I'm curious, which plot, storyline, physics, etc. do you consider contradicted? (Of course the Kawalsky-Oneill relationship, but besides that?)

There are bunches of things in the briefing where Kennedy questions Teal'c that are not true. Like T has no knowledge of "goa'uld magic" but later on we learn that as First Prime T was actually quiet knowledgeable and expert in many goa'uld technologies. The time and forces that would be required to mount and attack on earth is ignored in the season finale. The fact that Jaffa are just modified humans. And on and on.

Then there's the goa'uld that can still control Kawalsky even after most of it's body was cut out.

There are lots of inconsistancies between early episodes and the later seasons. It doesn't really bother me because I think it's to be expected with new shows. They're still working out the kinks.

[hlndncr]

The relationship between Kawalsky and O'neill personally confuses me a little after watching this episode. In the first two episodes they make it seem like they don't know each other very well and then they talk about their relationship later in the series and show a deeper relationship. Didn't Jack name his son after Kawalsky and didn't he know about Jack's son during the original movie? Maybe it's just me... I've only watched the movie once.

This is another example of early inconsistancies. In the movie I believe Kawalsky was a seargent, there was no talk of Jack's son between them, and it didn't seem they knew each other well at all.

In the recut version of CotG BW took out Kawalsky's line about not knowing Jack had a son.

Personally, I'm more inclined to buy that they didn't know each other very well than having them as best buds and serving together for years.

[iiradned]

This is another example of early inconsistancies. In the movie I believe Kawalsky was a seargent, there was no talk of Jack's son between them, and it didn't seem they knew each other well at all.

In the original movie when Daniel first arrives at the Stargate facility, Kawalsky has the silver oak leaves of a lieutenant colonel and Ferretti has the stripes of a technical sargeant. IMDB however lists both of them as lieutenants.

[meredithe5]

In the original movie when Daniel first arrives at the Stargate facility, Kawalsky has the silver oak leaves of a lieutenant colonel and Ferretti has the stripes of a technical sargeant. IMDB however lists both of them as lieutenants.

So many contradictions lol, but it's true that most new shows go through that phase of trying to get everything situated. It gets a lot better as we go along... though I'll always be confused why Sam said she had 4 great years with her father :X

[Wild Flower]

So many contradictions lol, but it's true that most new shows go through that phase of trying to get everything situated. It gets a lot better as we go along... though I'll always be confused why Sam said she had 4 great years with her father :X

I always thought that that might have something to do with the hiatus. So there was never really a gap between the seasons in the SG universe but for us there was. Therefore they continued straight on while we had months pass between seasons. I haven't done the maths to work it out but that's why I thought she said that... But then I have heard someone mention on here before that TPTB said it was just a mistake so I could be wrong

[SGSuzi]

I always thought that that might have something to do with the hiatus. So there was never really a gap between the seasons in the SG universe but for us there was. Therefore they continued straight on while we had months pass between seasons. I haven't done the maths to work it out but that's why I thought she said that... But then I have heard someone mention on here before that TPTB said it was just a mistake so I could be wrong

I think it was a mistake as I've heard other references to seasons equaling a year (ish) not sure where but I'm sure i heard 8 years mentioned in SG-1 season 9. My only explanation for the 4 years mentioned in threads is that it must be about 4 years since the episode where Jacob nearly died whilst he was captured with SG-1.

[SaraBahama]

So many contradictions lol, but it's true that most new shows go through that phase of trying to get everything situated. It gets a lot better as we go along... though I'll always be confused why Sam said she had 4 great years with her father :X

I think it was a mistake as I've heard other references to seasons equaling a year (ish) not sure where but I'm sure i heard 8 years mentioned in SG-1 season 9. My only explanation for the 4 years mentioned in threads is that it must be about 4 years since the episode where Jacob nearly died whilst he was captured with SG-1.

hedwig pointed out to me that it was about 4 years prior when they were captured in "Jolinar's Memories" & "The Devil You Know." Perhaps she meant that 4 years? Or maybe it was just an error.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

who knows i know that is there is also some speculation on when janet fraiser died, i'm say december 2003 because in inauguration which is basically the new president's first day, woolsey mentioned the events of "heroes" to be over a month ago.

[SaraBahama]

Then there's the goa'uld that can still control Kawalsky even after most of it's body was cut out.

This always bothered me, too.

This is another example of early inconsistancies. In the movie I believe Kawalsky was a seargent, there was no talk of Jack's son between them, and it didn't seem they knew each other well at all.

In the recut version of CotG BW took out Kawalsky's line about not knowing Jack had a son.

Personally, I'm more inclined to buy that they didn't know each other very well than having them as best buds and serving together for years.

The contradiction comes in "The Gamekeeper" (Season 2), where it shows that O'Neill and Kawalsky served together in 1982.

This would have been prior to Charlie's birth, regardless how you factor his age.

One way to reconcile it would be that they served together and trusted each other, but they didn't know each other in a deeply personal way (not unusual...it took until 'Cold Lazarus' for Sam to find out more about Jack). Kawalsky may not have known about Jack having a son, as he may have been born and died since Kawalsky last saw O'Neill. The bond they now share was founded on the mission in 1982 and has developed on the Abydos missions.