Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[SaraBahama]

Spirits

Love the way Jack stops Sam before heading off to command her first mission and in his own understated way reminds her to take a moment to enjoy the experience. It's a very personal moment (even though Hammond is standing right there!) and his confidence and pride in her is so evident. She's almost blushing at his oblique praise. Then when she reports to him in the infirmary he praises her again very directly.

They just seem particularly close in this episode. Always sitting and standing near each other. When the team meets at the armory Jack hands her his weapon and she automatically primes it for him and hands it back without a word, barely even a glance. They are completely in sync.

They stay together in the infirmary when Daniel and Teal'c go to dial the gate. When Daniel comes back with the Salish spirirts Jack doesn't react when Tonane disappears but when Sam is taken his weapon is up immediately. I think he's a little protective of her.

There's really nothing overtly shippy in this episode, but I just think they are so cute together throughout; therefore, I find the episode rather charming.

*sigh*

Well said, hlndncr....well said! Love each of your points and completely agree.

The part where she chambers the round in the handgun and hands it to him is played subtly and without comment -easy to miss if you're not looking for it, and so perfect. Thanks for pointing it out!
His anger and frustration erupting when they make Sam disappear (as opposed to when Tonane did) struck me for the first time on this rewatch.

[fems]

I don't know if I believe she would have allowed herself to go through with it. Her anguish in Part 1 was real and gut-wrenching. But in the moments before she realizes that they should offer the chance to Jacob, her conversation with Jack seems to indicate (to me) a wavering of resolve because things have gotten so bad. Almost like she's talking herself into it.

CARTER: I, for one, don't want to hurt any of them.
O'NEILL: Look, I'm not too thrilled about hurting anyone either. But keep in mind these people want to make you a host, and as I recall you said that whole 'Jolinar Goa'uld in the head' deal was one of the worst things that ever happened to you!
CARTER: That's before I understood it better. I-If I wasn't fighting her and I knew what it meant for Jolinar to be a Tok'ra, it might have been…I don't know, enlightening.
[O'Neill cocks his head at her disbelievingly. Carter rises again.]
CARTER: I need to see Garshaw!

Again...this was a random impression that I got from this part of the conversation.

To me it indicates that she was already contemplating offering her Dad to be Tok'ra-ed and Jack was just trying to remind her how it wasn't pleasant for her so why in Earth would she offer it to her father, even if it would save his life?

[Pol]

To me it indicates that she was already contemplating offering her Dad to be Tok'ra-ed and Jack was just trying to remind her how it wasn't pleasant for her so why in Earth would she offer it to her father, even if it would save his life?

I agree with you here. Like Daniel (who, I believe, might have liked to...much LATER in the series...have tried a Tok'ra blending), she is a scientist and the enlightenment that might be offered, the opportunity to advance science and knowledge with a WILLINGLY blended partner... I think she might have.

Her experience with Jolinar was what, the third...fourth...ep? In other words, the third or fourth week of being in the program? Maybe even 30 days in? She's seen Kowalsky die with a "snake in his head." She is aware of the duplicity of the Goa'uld. From her standpoint, the virtual rape of her mind, the unwilling takeover, was terrifying and bewildering.

[selene0789]

I agree with you here. Like Daniel (who, I believe, might have liked to...much LATER in the series...have tried a Tok'ra blending), she is a scientist and the enlightenment that might be offered, the opportunity to advance science and knowledge with a WILLINGLY blended partner... I think she might have.

Her experience with Jolinar was what, the third...fourth...ep? In other words, the third or fourth week of being in the program? Maybe even 30 days in? She's seen Kowalsky die with a "snake in his head." She is aware of the duplicity of the Goa'uld. From her standpoint, the virtual rape of her mind, the unwilling takeover, was terrifying and bewildering.

Jolinar happened in "In the Line of Duty", which was Episode 2 of Season 2. So it would have been about a year into the program.

But all the other points are good If not for that first horrible experience of Jolinar forcing her way in (desperate/unintentional or not), then I think Sam might have been more open to the idea of willingly offering herself as a host.

[hedwig]

Her experience with Jolinar was what, the third...fourth...ep? In other words, the third or fourth week of being in the program? Maybe even 30 days in? She's seen Kowalsky die with a "snake in his head." She is aware of the duplicity of the Goa'uld. From her standpoint, the virtual rape of her mind, the unwilling takeover, was terrifying and bewildering.

Methinks you left out a year between Kawalsky and Sam/Jolinar. A whole season passed between those events.

[Pol]

Methinks you left out a year between Kawalsky and Sam/Jolinar. A whole season passed between those events.

Oops.

[SaraBahama]

To me it indicates that she was already contemplating offering her Dad to be Tok'ra-ed and Jack was just trying to remind her how it wasn't pleasant for her so why in Earth would she offer it to her father, even if it would save his life?

I thought the 'lightbulb' moment for Sam (about her dad being the solution to the problem) came after she said it might have been enlightening.

Don't misunderstand: I know the thought of blending practically made her physically ill...I was not intending to deny Sam's feelings and turmoil over the experience she had with Jolinar. It's pretty evident throughout the ep that she is feeling pressured to consider it (1st when they are shown Selmak/Saroosh; 2nd when taking the walk with Martouf), and that the thought of it distresses her -tension radiates off of her both times (and she has said no in no uncertain terms).

It just seemed to me that this moment in the ep was the low point. All hope of resolution is lost: they are prisoners until such time as the Tok'ra move camp (however long that takes), the SG team members lose their freedom -their lives -until they are released (Sam probably knows what members have families waiting at home), and her dad will die before she can see him again.

Their proverbial backs are against the wall.

In this context I can see Sam reluctantly steeling herself and beginnig to consider offering herself as a host...because self sacrifice is such a part of her nature, and in the pit no other viable option presents itself. Jack speaks logic into the moment. He perceives her intent, knows her nature, and is unwilling to let her sacrifice herself for him and the others.

*please tell me that I made logical sense (even if your opinion differs from mine)...it is pretty late at night*

[selene0789]

I thought the 'lightbulb' moment for Sam (about her dad being the solution to the problem) came after she said it might have been enlightening.

Don't misunderstand: I know the thought of blending practically made her physically ill...I was not intending to deny Sam's feelings and turmoil over the experience she had with Jolinar. It's pretty evident throughout the ep that she is feeling pressured to consider it (1st when they are shown Selmak/Saroosh; 2nd when taking the walk with Martouf), and that the thought of it distresses her -tension radiates off of her both times (and she has said no in no uncertain terms).

It just seemed to me that this moment in the ep was the low point. All hope of resolution is lost: they are prisoners until such time as the Tok'ra move camp (however long that takes), the SG team members lose their freedom -their lives -until they are released (Sam probably knows what members have families waiting at home), and her dad will die before she can see him again.

Their proverbial backs are against the wall.

In this context I can see Sam reluctantly steeling herself and beginnig to consider offering herself as a host...because self sacrifice is such a part of her nature, and in the pit no other viable option presents itself. Jack speaks logic into the moment. He perceives her intent, knows her nature, and is unwilling to let her sacrifice herself for him and the others.

*please tell me that I made logical sense (even if your opinion differs from mine)...it is pretty late at night*

Logical sense made. Very perceptive!

Extra points earned for doing it late at night and remaining coherent!

[hlndncr]

I thought the 'lightbulb' moment for Sam (about her dad being the solution to the problem) came after she said it might have been enlightening.

Don't misunderstand: I know the thought of blending practically made her physically ill...I was not intending to deny Sam's feelings and turmoil over the experience she had with Jolinar. It's pretty evident throughout the ep that she is feeling pressured to consider it (1st when they are shown Selmak/Saroosh; 2nd when taking the walk with Martouf), and that the thought of it distresses her -tension radiates off of her both times (and she has said no in no uncertain terms).

It just seemed to me that this moment in the ep was the low point. All hope of resolution is lost: they are prisoners until such time as the Tok'ra move camp (however long that takes), the SG team members lose their freedom -their lives -until they are released (Sam probably knows what members have families waiting at home), and her dad will die before she can see him again.

Their proverbial backs are against the wall.

In this context I can see Sam reluctantly steeling herself and beginnig to consider offering herself as a host...because self sacrifice is such a part of her nature, and in the pit no other viable option presents itself. Jack speaks logic into the moment. He perceives her intent, knows her nature, and is unwilling to let her sacrifice herself for him and the others.

*please tell me that I made logical sense (even if your opinion differs from mine)...it is pretty late at night*

I see your point and I think it's an interesting perspective. You've supported your position well and I can see how some might see that as a plausible interpretation. I don't agree with it myself because I just think Sam was already thinking about her father, which was the much more obvious choice for a potential host. (I mean we all saw it coming and Sam is "way smarter than we are." )

[SaraBahama]

Thank you...as long as I was coherent...(and I can see the other interpretation as well...thanks for the perspective fems, Pol, hlndncr).

Headed off to bed...

Btw -what ep are we wrapping up the week with? I really need to get back to watching...I got a little off-track this week.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

Btw -what ep are we wrapping up the week with? I really need to get back to watching...I got a little off-track this week.

if we're going by the season 2 airdate order that gateworld has then Holiday should be the wrap up episode for this week. serpent's song is this upcoming monday and with any luck the 30th will be out of mind.

[hlndncr]

The Fifth Race

There sitting together in the briefing room when we begin and Jack is showing off that he remembers about "the meaning of life sort of stuff."

Then when they go to the planet and Jack gets his head stuck in the head sucky thingy. When he passes out Sam runs over and feels for a pulse. Once she finds one, she craddles his cheek in concern.

When they get back from the planet it's Sam who is by his side in the infirmary.

She continues to be concerned about him in the briefing. Later she's concerned and baffled by his behavior. When he rewrites the computer code she actually snaps at him (what did you do?!), not at all like a junior officer to her CO. Do you get the feeling he's messed up her computer before?

Even when Jack was almost completely gone and doing things not of his own volition, a recording of Sam in trouble still got through and he immediately turned his attention to saving her. When she returns he's waiting for her and she can hardly believe he's the one who drafted the plans to fix the DHD.

Sam was clearly worried for him as he left. But why didn't she run down to the gateroom when he returns, as she has in the past?

[hlndncr]

A Matter of Time

Oh that scene in the briefing room where Jack is quite obviously and shamelessly flirting with Sam. I mean he's actually asking her for technobabble. He clearly just wants to see her smile. Later when things get critical he gets upset at her for the technobabble. In some ways that's really unfair. He was encouraging only a short time ago.

This episode really shows the friction between the two of them that comes along with their attraction. Jack loves that she's smart and a good officer. But her smarts can sometimes get in the way when she gets caught up in the science and forgets the people or wastes precious time with long explanations. And Jack can put too much on her always expecting her to come up with the answer and fix things.

Still they work together well with Jack's dumb ideas and heroics, and her determination to come through for him and keep him safe.

[hlndncr]

Holiday

The best ship of this episode comes from the behind the scenes pics (see banner below ). They don't sit together in the briefing. They don't have much interaction. Then again the usual flirting would be kind of confusing. Jack's sexy body was being temprorarily occupied by Teal'c's consciousness. And flirting with Jack in Teal'c's body would probably just seem weird.

[selene0789]

A Matter of Time


Oh that scene in the briefing room where Jack is quite obviously and shamelessly flirting with Sam. I mean he's actually asking her for technobabble. He clearly just wants to see her smile. Later when things get critical he gets upset at her for the technobabble. In some ways that's really unfair. He was encouraging only a short time ago.

This episode really shows the friction between the two of them that comes along with their attraction. Jack loves that she's smart and a good officer. But her smarts can sometimes get in the way when she gets caught up in the science and forgets the people or wastes precious time with long explanations. And Jack can put too much on her always expecting her to come up with the answer and fix things.

Still they work together well with Jack's dumb ideas and heroics, and her determination to come through for him and keep him safe.

I love this episode for all the points you mentioned above. It's one of the rare moments where Carter's love of science and the mystery it holds eclipses the lives of her fellow servicemembers. Usually Sam is the compassionate one of the military portion of SG-1 (Jack is much more likely to go blasting his way in, while Sam is the voice of reason-- and really is the deciding party when Jack and Daniel get into one of their military vs anthropology spats), so I think it was an interesting side to see.

And at the same time, when Jack can switch between flirting and upset at her technobabble, it makes him incredibly realistic, as many people are fickle and inconsistent with their interpersonal interactions. It clearly demonstrates that he's most okay with the technobabble when it's on his terms, and not when he feels the situation needs to be understood and resolved as quickly as possible.

I still think the best part of the episode is when Cromwell and Jack are listening to Carter technobabble, and then Cromwell says something that might turn into either a lewd or derisive comment, but Jack cuts in defensively, shutting him down before he can finish whatever he's about to say-- and also returning to the state of "technobabble is okay when it comes from Carter". It could be an effort driven by both professional and personal unease (since he's both reinforcing her integral role in his team and at the SGC, and preventing Cromwell from making a 'she's so hot' remark in one fell swoop), which makes the moment even more dynamic.