Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[selene0789]

Regarding Pete and his smiley on this thread. He was as I call overexcited boyfriend. I think he was in love with Sam completely, mesmerised by her. He knew she was way too good(too cool) for him, and he wanted not to loose her and that relationship not to fail. He wanted it so badly(been there done that, back in the stupid young days ), that he became obsessed with her. He himself did not realise that he became like that, thus stalking and checking on her. From my experience(and i am not saying I know better, I don't) some women don't really like men like that who are trying to be everywhere everytime. I know supportive is good and being there when needed is good, but when it is over the top, like with Pete, it's not healthy. I know that wasn't the main reason why Sam ditched him, but it's just my observation of him being one of the least favorites among Sams boyfriends

I agree. I too have the aversion to BFs who are everywhere all the time.

Though I think another main reason that us shippers dislike Pete is because he lived. Of all her love interests, he was the only one to survive the curse. Figures the one survivor would be a weenie. Though I will say that I still squee (and sometimes cackle) like a fangirl when I scroll past Wizards of Waverly Place. I'm like "See?! Pete found his happy ending! And this one's got the secret double life too!".

Though the fangirl thing happens whenever I see *any* DeLouise. Like in Supernatural the other day... I think it was Peter DeLouise... who ended up appearing briefly as a demon, and I started bouncing happily in my seat. I got weird looks from my sis.

[Nynaeve506]

Though I will say that I still squee (and sometimes cackle) like a fangirl when I scroll past Wizards of Waverly Place. I'm like "See?! Pete found his happy ending! And this one's got the secret double life too!".

Oh good. I'm not the only one who thinks "Pete Shanahan" whenever my son is watching the Disney Channel and this show comes on.

[fems]

No, Pete 'surviving' Sam's curse is a good thing. This way she came to her senses and realized she didn't love him and was still in love with Jack. Otherwise there could have always been doubt about her feelings for her late fiance/husband when she would finally get together with Jack.

[selene0789]

No, Pete 'surviving' Sam's curse is a good thing. This way she came to her senses and realized she didn't love him and was still in love with Jack. Otherwise there could have always been doubt about her feelings for her late fiance/husband when she would finally get together with Jack.

That is a good point. But I would have been fine with Osiris killing him from the get go. Before he and Sam ever got serious. and then Jack would have told her about the background check, and then she would've been like "that prick! good riddance!"... Wait. I think there's a fanfic where exactly this thing happened. Good to know I'm not the only one who has these thoughts!

But nah, in all seriousness, I'm fine with how everything played out. Because now Sam and Jack are together, and now it's all the sweeter, because we came so close to seeing "what might have been"... YAY SAM/JACK!!

[Akamaimom]

No, Pete 'surviving' Sam's curse is a good thing. This way she came to her senses and realized she didn't love him and was still in love with Jack. Otherwise there could have always been doubt about her feelings for her late fiance/husband when she would finally get together with Jack.

I absolutely agree with this. This is the best reason to keep him alive--it showed that Sam had a choice. She wasn't rethinking her engagement because she HAD to--because Pete was no longer around--she was rethinking getting married because she was realizing her mistake. Had Pete died, I think that it would have cheapened her approaching of Jack. Pete HAD to live in order for Sam to understand that he was a mistake.

[hedwig]

just outta curiousity how long were Sam and engaged for? less than a year?

For whatever length of time it took for nine episodes to play out.

No, Pete 'surviving' Sam's curse is a good thing. This way she came to her senses and realized she didn't love him and was still in love with Jack. Otherwise there could have always been doubt about her feelings for her late fiance/husband when she would finally get together with Jack.

Amanda is the one that started that "Black Widow" thing, and I think the writers decided to play it up for whatever reason. However, ... there was no such thing, since she actually had no boyfriends before Pete. Narim, Martouf, and Orlin were NOT boyfriends. They were interested in her and she liked them back, but none of them became anything remotely resembling boyfriends. And Joe was interested, but didn't last beyond the "2001" episode, regardless of what happened in "2010" (which never actually happened). All of those guys would likely have died regardless of whether they had ever met Samantha Carter, and having met her none of their deaths were because of her. I've always disliked that they played up that scenario. Plus, the black widow thing can be negated, simply because at least as many other guys (Graham Simmons, McKay, Barrett, Felger (yes, Felger; had a huge crush on her) who were interested in Sam never died, so they pretty much cancel each other out.

[fems]

I like the black widow thing. You're forgetting though that she was returning (some of) the affection of Narim, Martouf and Orlin. She kissed Narim, she had Jolinar's memories of and feelings/imprints for Martouf and wasn't just friendly with him (she did almost kiss his alternate in Ripple Effect) and had 'alien sex' with Orlin. Granted, she wasn't in love with any of them nor planning for more than just friendship, but her interactions with them was very different from those with Simmons, McKay, Barrett and Felger. I'm not saying she led the first group of men on, but she didn't exactly discourage them, with the latter group she was mostly professional and friendly, yet discouraging.

And let's not forget Jonas Hanson.

[Akamaimom]

Jonas totally deserved what he got. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

As for the Simmons-through-Felger group, I'd have to agree with fems. Sam was kind to them, but not encouraging. Therefore, they wouldn't qualify for death, according to the curse guidelines. Although, that we know of, she didn't get ask intimate with them as she did with Pete, so it might be that's what saved him. Maybe she's got some antibodies that she gave him while they were dating. (That was a joke, people.)

I've heard Sam talk about her Black Widow thing, and it might just be that, as an actress, she was finding a thread in her plot lines and running with it. I think that the character deaths figured more into the story line of the show as a whole rather than her particular influence on them as men. And technically, Orlin didn't die, did he? He ascended. There's a difference.

[fems]

Actually, Orlin ended up in an institution in a child's body and his brain cells were slowly dying. Death would have probably been a better alternative.

[Akamaimom]

Actually, Orlin ended up in an institution in a child's body and his brain cells were slowly dying. Death would have probably been a better alternative.

Eventually, but not immediately. Did they ever say that he was definitely dying? The Orlin part, maybe, but wouldn't that have left him as a normal kid?

[fems]

Well, people tend to die when their brain is gone...

[hedwig]

I like the black widow thing. You're forgetting though that she was returning (some of) the affection of Narim, Martouf and Orlin. She kissed Narim, she had Jolinar's memories of and feelings/imprints for Martouf and wasn't just friendly with him (she did almost kiss his alternate in Ripple Effect) and had 'alien sex' with Orlin. Granted, she wasn't in love with any of them nor planning for more than just friendship, but her interactions with them was very different from those with Simmons, McKay, Barrett and Felger. I'm not saying she led the first group of men on, but she didn't exactly discourage them, with the latter group she was mostly professional and friendly, yet discouraging.

And let's not forget Jonas Hanson.

Actually, I'm not forgetting any of that. Yes, she kissed Narim, but it doesn't mean she was returning his interest; I think that was just more of a response to a sweet guy showing an interest in her the way he did (which isn't to say she'd respond the same way to anyone else showing a similar interest). And she did tell him in "Pretense" that until she could figure out whose feelings she was feeling that she couldn't be involved with anyone. And the same goes for Martouf. I think she really liked him, but her feelings about him were so confused because of Jolinar that she couldn't figure out whose feelings she was feeling towards him. We never got to see how she would have interacted with him without the whole Jolinar thing, so we don't know if she would have felt any attraction for him otherwise. And as for Orlin, I think she got a bit overwhelmed or overcome by the sharing of energy thing and was more intrigued about him than interested in him romantically (though I'm sure she thought it was very cute). One could consider the energy sharing as "sex", but I don't see it that way. In my mind, it was a mental (replace with whatever other more appropriate word of choice) sort of sharing that allowed her to become aware of knowledge in a way that she couldn't have in ordinary life (if that made any sense). Plus, she told him very firmly and sternly that there was no "them" when he got upset about her not calling to let him know she was going to be late that one day.

That whole "Ripple Effect" almost-kiss was just plain weird. It had been five years since he died in her reality, so I've never been able to figure out a good reason for that almost-kiss. The only way I can justify it is that it was some sort of residual Jolinar feelings, because I honestly don't think Samantha Carter would have done that had there not been some sort of left over influence. Plus, I just blame the writers for sticking it in there where it didn't belong.

And I agree that Jonas Hansen got what he deserved. But I wouldn't say his death was because she knew him and had been engaged to him. I'm pretty sure he would have wound up dead even if they had never met.

[selene0789]

I think saying she wasn't interested in any of those guys makes Sam seem too much like a spinster. I prefer to think of her as a hotblooded woman, so the idea she had so many little dabbles here and there seems more healthy than years of being alone pining for Jack until she settles for Pete.

So, my vote is for her showing interest in Narim, Orlin, Joe Faxon, Martouf and all them. Though I agree that she didn't really return the affections for Felger or cute!Simmons (much different character than evil!Simmons, after all). I'll go either way with Agent Barrett. I think with him she found the attention flattering, and flirted kinda in response, but really wasn't into it.

[fems]

I wasn't saying Sam was seriously interested in any of them, but she wasn't exactly discouraging their feelings. If you compare the dead group with the alive group the way she interacted with them (not discouraging vs discouraging and professional) was different.

Oh and as for Joe Faxon, she liked him. She ended up marrying him in the alternate universe and accepted his dinner invitation in 2001...

I'm also not saying that Jonas Hanson is dead because of Sam, but he was involved with her at some point (and apparently still pining for her) and ended up dead.

Taking all that into account I think the black widow curse fits somewhat. Not that every guy that likes her ends up dead, but there is a pattern. What is it they say? Once is happenstance, twice is a coincidence and three times is a pattern...

[hedwig]

IWhat is it they say? Once is happenstance, twice is a coincidence and three times is a pattern...

I think of it more as because of the sort of the work they are all involved with, rather than it being a pattern. I'd say it would be more true if all the people were not in the military and just living regular, ordinary lives. But given the kind of work all of these people are involved in, it becomes less of a coincidence or pattern and almost a likely outcome rather than a curse.