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    Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
    Continuum
    I like it!
    It is very much like an old time SG1 adventure. (And I love seeing Sam as a kick-butt pilot.) I try not to nit-pick it too much. (Time travel can give you a headache.) But I admit that I miss Jack being a part of the action. I know this was just a special appearance by RDA, but I do miss him as the star and leader of SG1 (one more reason to regret the loss of movie 3).
    I am annoyed that when the team was sent to their separate locations across the country and told not to try and contact each other or tamper with the timeline, they actually followed order and did nothing for a year! I just think they would have found a way to get in touch and start planning a jailbreak so to speak.
    I agree with all of the above! I just watched it for the first time -armed with all of this subtext.

    Sam smiles when Landry mentions Jack and makes a comment that acknowledges her understanding of his history with Baal.
    Reckon they had a few days together before he headed out to the Tok'ra homeworld?

    On a side note, I was surprised to see Sam with an SG1 patch since she just returned from Atlantis and I can’t see her just going back to being #2 on the team.
    I saw it more as an 'honorary' situation. She's still stationed on Atlantis, but has been invited back to witness the destruction of one of the enemies she helped bring down personally. So she is wearing the patch as a mark of her history with the team and their solidarity.

    She refuses to leave him when he dies, and Cam has to physically drag her away.
    Jack's "get to the gate" tugged at my heart. He knows he's beyond help and his only thought is for her safety. (shippy glasses firmly in place here)

    Sam is devastated by his death and cannot function back on Earth in the changed timeline - Mitchell has to remind her they need her. This is probably my favorite shippy moment. (I live in the cavern of angst.) Sam is almost as good as Jack at compartmentalizing and pushing her feelings aside to get the job done, but here she is absolutely immobilized. And on the commentary Brad notes that her reaction is because O’Neill is dead and he says that AT played it just perfectly. And really Cam’s reaction tells me he understands who she’s just lost too.
    Indeed!

    Sam is ecstatic to see Jack alive and Jack seems delighted to see her but she is confused when he calls her a dead astronaut.
    Her joyful "I thought you were dead" -because she thinks it's HER Jack. I teared up.

    Sam realizes this Jack is not at all her Jack in the ward room of the submarine.
    It's very neat how Daniel and Cam both gravitate to her (their body language) as the realization sinks in. I see it as them trying to support and comfort her as the blow hits her.

    The interrogation sequence is a nice call back to POV
    Did anybody else wish for Sam to burst out with 'for crying out loud'??

    With the timeline restored, Jack invites everyone to lunch and even offers to buy at Sam's non-verbal prodding.
    And it was very unsubtle

    hlndncr -thanks for the subtext...it lived and grew in my head as I watched, layered with my own.

    I thought it was a good old SG-1 romp as well. Some of the paradox issues were swept under the rug, and I would have liked more obvious confirmation, but overall it was entertaining in the season 1-8 kind of way.
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    sig by Ikorni

    "When Colonel Maybourne and yourself were stranded off world, Major Carter felt a similar sense of frustration. She despaired at the thought of never seeing you again." ~Teal'c
    "I didn't leave,because I'd have rather died myself,than lose Carter." ~Jack O'Neill


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      Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
      I too would have liked to see much more Jack and much more S/J ship that was much more explicit. But that doesn't completely ruin the movie for me. Maybe because I had not built up such great expectations for it I was able to enjoy it for what it was instead of dwelling on what it wasn't (no matter how desireable that might have been).
      As an aside, IIRC, the credits for Continuum list RDA as "Jonathon" rather than "John" O'Neill. There has been discussion in the past as to which was canon.
      Again, IIRC, as I can't check it out right now.

      Comment


        I believe his file in Entity shows John J. O'Neill. And I think Jack is more of a typical nickname for John than Jonathan. In my mind he's John (Jack).

        Oh, and re: Continuum--I thought Sam's state of shock when Jack was killed was highly appropriate and well played. Even if you're not a shipper, this was *O'Neill* getting killed and it was a supreme blow.

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          In most credits and on the official SG1 website, he's know as Jonathan 'Jack' O'Neill.

          I just put it down to continuity error in Entity. It's not the first time the props have been wrong (just like Carter's birthday discussion we were having previously) and also, in the original movie it was as above, only with one L not two.

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            Come on! where is everybody??

            Let's dicuss...anyone? anyone?

            How about 'Hathor'?
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            "When Colonel Maybourne and yourself were stranded off world, Major Carter felt a similar sense of frustration. She despaired at the thought of never seeing you again." ~Teal'c
            "I didn't leave,because I'd have rather died myself,than lose Carter." ~Jack O'Neill


            SaraBahama FanFic; AO3

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              Originally posted by SaraBahama View Post
              Come on! where is everybody??

              Let's dicuss...anyone? anyone?

              How about 'Hathor'?
              I like the Hathor episodes. In both of them, we get some REALLY shippy moments. Sam looking at Jack's abs ("Crunches") in the first one, and then that wonderful, all consuming hug in the second part of the two-parter. **sigh**

              How about this for debate.

              Was Jack really in love with Lara (100 Days), or was she just a convenience?
              And who here thinks that Lara was just a teeny (enormous) bit manipulative?
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                Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post

                How about this for debate.

                Was Jack really in love with Lara (100 Days), or was she just a convenience?
                And who here thinks that Lara was just a teeny (enormous) bit manipulative?
                i think jack was heading towards being in love with her, but i don't think he was there yet.

                in wanting jack to leave his past behind, and, impregnate her so soon after the incident... kind of.
                sally

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                  I've not made it a secret that 100 days is my least favorite ep.

                  IMO:
                  Jack wasn't in love with her per se, but he was hitting that place where he was giving up on being rescued (he's a realist, and the military has a degree of 'acceptable losses' no matter what his team, or his commanding officer would want...at some point Washington is going to tell them to give it up...add to that he knows that SGC has no proof that he survived the asteroid bombardment), and he has to make his life here, and Laira wants him. With a population so small, and him slowly severing the cords to home, to hope, he is willing to give her what she is asking for and to try to make peace with his situation.

                  Was she manipulative? Heck yeah! She always phrased it so gently, but pushing and prodding him to give up on his past and to give her a child... *mutters in unintelligible rant*

                  I also disliked the ending, with Jack leaving so blithely (unsure if he's fathered a child?). And Sam's look at the end of that ep....twists my gut every time...
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                  sig by Ikorni

                  "When Colonel Maybourne and yourself were stranded off world, Major Carter felt a similar sense of frustration. She despaired at the thought of never seeing you again." ~Teal'c
                  "I didn't leave,because I'd have rather died myself,than lose Carter." ~Jack O'Neill


                  SaraBahama FanFic; AO3

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                    Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post
                    How about this for debate.

                    Was Jack really in love with Lara (100 Days), or was she just a convenience?
                    And who here thinks that Lara was just a teeny (enormous) bit manipulative?
                    I don't think Jack loved Laira at all. But she wasn't a convenience either. He truly cared about her and was grateful to her for her companionship. And I'm not sure that had he been sober if he would have gone to bed with her. His defenses were really down by then, and he caved. He might have eventually come to love her, but more as a very good friend than love for a wife or lover.

                    I don't know if manipulative is the right word. But she certainly knew what she wanted, but was willing to wait awhile to get it (him). The whole thing about wanting a baby was just plain wrong in my opinion. She may have wanted one, but I find it hard to believe that given what happened with Charlie only a few years before that Jack would give in on that notion. In fact, I would have expected him to say something about having had a son, who had died, even if he didn't go into details with her. I think that might have put her off for awhile longer.

                    I guess I can see the "manipulative" bit given that she attempted to ask him on their walk "home", and then backed off, and he got slightly irritated. I did, too, because it did seem like she was playing him by not just telling him what she wanted. Maybe she was afraid he'd running screaming away from her and jump into the river or something if she did; who knows. I haven't seen the episode in awhile, but didn't she wait till the night they had sex before she said she wanted a child. She knew he was somewhat drunk, so it does seem manipulative that she only asked him when his defenses were down. Hmmm ... I may have to force myself to go back and watch this again to see when she said she wanted a child.

                    Plus, I've often wondered just what was wrong with any of the other men in the village that she didn't want any of them. Or were all the available men back on earth or wherever the refugees were being housed during the 100 Days? We never did find out just how long it had been since her husband had died.

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                      Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post
                      Was Jack really in love with Lara (100 Days), or was she just a convenience?
                      And who here thinks that Lara was just a teeny (enormous) bit manipulative?
                      Good questions. IIRC it was discussed when we discussed "100 days", but I also remember missing that discussion, so here are my 2 cents.

                      I'm a big fan of this episode - more as a Jack episode though than S/J one - and I admit I'm one of Laira's defenders. I don't think she was evil, nor do I think she was manipulative. The way I see her, she's a lonely woman bringing up a son on her own who every day stuggles with this, with her loneliness and her responsibilities as a village leader. And then one day this handsome stranger shows up, and he seems to be everything she needs and longs for. No wonder she fell for him.

                      I also think that some shippers tend to forget that Jack was portrayed as attracted to her right from the start, long before he got stranded. He was flirting, he was helping her personally, he was spending with her as much time as he could and when the meteors hit, he risked his life to help her find her son (at that point she didn't know that the latter was his usual MO). So as far as she was concerned, he returned her feelings. After the meteor shower she gave him space to find the way home and then mourn everything he lost, before making any further attempts to (re)gain his interest in her. That's quite noble, IMO.

                      So no, I don't think she was manipulative and I can't find it in me to dislike her. She was a normal, fallible human being. She could have kept him for herself, and apparently at first she was tempted to, but in the end she made the right choice and let him go. And honestly, who wouldn't be tempted in her shoes?

                      Originally posted by majorsal View Post
                      i think jack was heading towards being in love with her, but i don't think he was there yet.
                      Yep, that's how I see it too.

                      Originally posted by hedwig View Post
                      I don't know if manipulative is the right word. But she certainly knew what she wanted, but was willing to wait awhile to get it (him). The whole thing about wanting a baby was just plain wrong in my opinion. She may have wanted one, but I find it hard to believe that given what happened with Charlie only a few years before that Jack would give in on that notion. In fact, I would have expected him to say something about having had a son, who had died, even if he didn't go into details with her. I think that might have put her off for awhile longer.

                      I guess I can see the "manipulative" bit given that she attempted to ask him on their walk "home", and then backed off, and he got slightly irritated. I did, too, because it did seem like she was playing him by not just telling him what she wanted. Maybe she was afraid he'd running screaming away from her and jump into the river or something if she did; who knows. I haven't seen the episode in awhile, but didn't she wait till the night they had sex before she said she wanted a child. She knew he was somewhat drunk, so it does seem manipulative that she only asked him when his defenses were down. Hmmm ... I may have to force myself to go back and watch this again to see when she said she wanted a child.
                      Well, as much as I like Laira I admit you make fair points here that I can't disagree with.

                      I also found it strange that Charlie wasn't mentioned, but I seem to remember RDA saying that he wished the ep was longer, because it lacked the time to properly explain Jack's motivation. Or something.
                      Last edited by Petra; July 16, 2011, 10:27 AM. Reason: grammar
                      There's a good chance this opinion is shared by Ashizuri
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                        I thought Laira was manipulative and plotting the best way to get Jack in the sack. I'm not sure if I agree with Petra about Jack being attracted to her from the beginning. In my opinion, she was one of the alien contacts with whom he had to negotiate a deal (or if she wasn't an important village leader, some sort of guide then) with or a treaty. He thought she was nice and was probably enjoying her friendship as well as looking forward to the "fire rain", which she could tell them more about. That's basically all we see, although they seem to have been there for a few days already.

                        SG-1 in general seems kind, knowledgeable and appears to have the best intentions when it comes to Edora and their people for the treaty. Jack is attractive, funny, in command and protective. Probably quite the opposite from a lot of the Edorans. Laira seems to have no problem following his lead, even when SG-1 suggests they leave for the meteor shower and Haynan opposes it. When Garan is missing, she doesn't question Jack's actions as he wants to look for him in the caves and gladly takes him there. When they're in the cave, Laira is already looking to Jack for protection as the meteors strike and him being the man he is, he offers it. It's what he does best, after all.

                        Then when they find out the gate is gone, she really (unintentionally) rubs his nose into it.

                        Spoiler:

                        LAIRA
                        It's gone. I'll never see my people again. They can never come home.
                        O'NEILL
                        Nope.
                        LAIRA
                        And you.
                        [He walks away from her and kicks at the rubble.]


                        Jack has nowhere to go and she remains kind to him, with her probably already seeing an opportunity for more than friendship now that he's stuck there. She hands him the shirt she made for her husband and just ignores him and mentions the harvest when he suggests the gate could be just buried. Like she doesn't even care (after all, a lot of her people are gone but she still has her house, her son and now Jack).

                        Then, after three months she's already thinking of having his baby? I mean, that was probably the first time she even kissed him. They couldn't have known each other for more than four months! But who knows, maybe that's the Edoran way of life; mourn for 100 days for losing a loved one, wait for 100 days to start hitting on someone and try to get pregnant. Obviously marriage isn't "necessary" for a couple to have a baby, or maybe it's not frowned upon because Laira had already been married.

                        At this point I don't think you can really blame Jack. He's been left behind on a planet due to his own actions (saving the boy). It's not first time in his career he's left behind (which incidentally was also for about four months) and in their line of work, I think he wouldn't be too pessimistic to think it won't be the last. He doesn't even know if the gate still exists, since he obviously hasn't found it yet despite digging around for months. There's no way he knows of to get himself home.

                        We, the viewers, know that maybe their allies can send a ship to safe him, but we already know Jack doesn't like/trust the Tok'ra and I'm fairly certain he feels similar about the Tollan.

                        It's even possible he's already been briefed about his next undercover mission and knows the Tollan don't really trust Earth anymore with all the theft of alien technology from Tau'ri teams.

                        He doesn't have Daniel or Carter to tell him what the odds are, he probably thinks the gate is lost and like SaraBahama said, he knows the military procedures for MIA personnel - the fact that he's on an alien planet with no proof he survived the meteor shower probably reinforces the idea of Washington giving up on him.

                        Then he gets drunk and Laira has made sure Garren isn't at home, so she can seduce Jack. It's only then that she tells him she wants his baby and well, Jack's a guy and she isn't unattractive and he's starting to believe he might be stuck there forever. I don't think the full implications of her request are getting through his fuzzy head, but even if he does, he might think it'll take a while before she gets pregnant. We don't know why he and Sara only had Charlie, it could be that they'd tried for a second child but it just never happened. I doubt he thinks Laira will get pregnant right away.

                        I think it's the next day that she's trying to get rid of his Earth stuff and overhears the radio. Like hell she didn't recognize Sam's voice...

                        Spoiler:

                        [Laira is about to throw O'Neill's belongings into the pond. She picks up his radio and examines it.]
                        CARTER'S VOICE
                        (over the radio)
                        Fifteen seconds till shutdown…Ten seconds till shutdown…Five seconds.

                        [...]

                        LAIRA
                        When I was taking your things away today, I thought I heard a sound come from this. Perhaps a voice.
                        [She hands him his radio and, after a moment, he gets up and leaves the house.]


                        But yeah, I totally agree that the whole thing about her having his baby and him not even mentioning Charlie was weird. Not to mention Jack just leaving without finding out if she was pregnant (but I don't think she was).
                        Unmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
                        Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
                        On FFnet or AO3


                        My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories.

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                          I don't think Jack was inlove with Laira, but he was getting there. 100days is still too short of time to get rid of the loss of people with whom you had such adventures and stuff.
                          And knowing Jack as being very kind hearted was the reason for him being so sad leaving his new home.
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                            Just a little reminder (as if anyone here would forget) . . .


                            by Oma-1

                            Be sure to invite all your friends to join us. It's going to be a fabulous party!

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                              By hlndncr

                              Well friends, as we come to the end of our Shipper Rewatch I thought we should take a moment to wrap things up and discuss where are favorite couple are now.

                              After Continuum, we only see Sam or Jack a few more times and never actually together. Like many shippers, I was disappointed. After so many years of great chemistry and a phenomenal love story we deserved to see their happy ending. But I have that super heavy prescription of rosy shippy glasses. So I even manage to find ship in those little crumbs left to us.

                              When we last left Jack and Sam they were on their way to lunch with the team. Sam had just lost her command of Atlantis. The next time we see Sam she is temporarily in charge of the SGC during the events of the SGA Season 5 episode “Enemy at the Gate” while Landry is in DC. She is still wearing an SG-1 patch on her BDUs. We also know that she is waiting to take commend of the Air Force’s newest spacecraft The General George Hammond—having been renamed in honor of General Hammond who recently died unexpectedly of a heart attack (just as his beloved alter ego DSD) while Sam was off-world. We later see Sam in command of The Hammond in support of the Icarus project.

                              Meanwhile, sometime between the end of Season 10 and the beginning of SGU the Presidential advisory position Jack held as head of “Homeworld Security” has been morphed into Homeworld Command with offices and a command center somewhere deep within the Pentagon. Jack’s command responsibilities appear to extend to the Icarus project (which would make sense if HWC is a new Unified Combatant Command under the President and the SecDef), and at one point Jack apparently survives an attack on the Pentagon by the Lucian Alliance.

                              Sam & Jack

                              When we see Sam again in EatG I would have preferred to see her with an SGC patch (like Jack wore when he was promoted) or none at all (like Jack in S10) rather than an SG-1 patch because I just can’t see her going back to play second fiddle to Mitchell after being in command of Atlantis. I even think command of SG-1 would be a step backwards. Not to mention that after a year in separate galaxies I would think that she and Jack would at least try to get her a posting in DC. So in my mind the SG-1 patch is just an honorary thing.

                              Any thoughts on what her position might have been? She was clearly still going off-world at least occasionally, and it seemed she had something to do with getting The Hammond up and running. I think she may have also been assisting Jack with the creation and establishment of the Homeworld Command.

                              We don’t know why Landry was in DC. I like to think Jack is preparing for his eventual, but not too distant, retirement.

                              I would note that Sam was wearing earrings with her BDUs, which she has never done before. It’s a small little touch that makes her look just a little softer and a little more feminine. I ascribe that to Jack’s influence. For me it’s a small demonstration of the complete woman (not just soldier and scientist) coming through. Maybe the earrings were even a present from Jack—for their anniversary perhaps?

                              Personally, I was not happy with how either Jack or Sam’s characters were portrayed on SGU, but that is a discussion for another time and place. On the positive side I will say that it was nice to see some interaction between them (albeit long-distance and largely formal). And we do get a peak on how their relationship has progressed. Jack refers to Sam easily and frequently. He speaks highly of her leadership and acknowledges her brilliance. You can certainly sense the fondness between them.

                              Moreover, we see how comfortable they are with one another, even during a military situation where Sam is reporting to Jack. She allows herself to show some vulnerability over her decision leaving some pilots behind and he consoles her, even calling her “Sam” (something we haven’t heard him do in years). That more than anything tells me their relationship is solidly established at this point. It’s a personal moment in the midst of a professional situation and no one bats an eyelash. It’s not even close to the confirmation I still wish for, but it is something.

                              Where are they now?

                              Let’s start with the rest of the team. Teal’c is the easiest. He is the leader of a free Jaffa nation; a coalition of numerous Jaffa worlds that he has united after the destruction of Dakara and the end of the Ori. I’m sure there were some Jaffa that refuse to acknowledge his leadership and may have formed smaller break-off groups, but their influence is minimal. Under Teal’c the Jaffa are building a democratic government with strong ties to earth. Teal’c visits his friends of Tau’ri often as the leader and official representative of his people.

                              Vala is the other easy one for me because I never saw her sticking around. I think she realized her place was with Tomin and that she could play an important role in helping the people of the Ori galaxy find their way after the demise of their oppressive false gods. I think eventually Vala and Tomin will unite the people of the galaxy in a peaceful quest for individual enlightenment and they will become great and legendary leaders. (See I still wish good things for Vala, just not with Daniel.)

                              Mitchell remains the leader of a newly constituted SG-1 for now. It’s not the old band, but he’s able to see that it is better for him and the future of the program to hand-pick members of his team with the greatest potential for future leadership and give them the benefit of the experiences he’s had with members of the original legendary team. He may eventually become the leader of the SGC as he continues to mellow and develop and demonstrate better judgment.

                              Perhaps that new SG-1 includes at least one old face—Jonas. Jonas reluctantly left the SGC to assist with the rebuilding of his home world after the Goa’uld attack. I don’t think he was ever happy in this role. He had seen a wider universe and he was not particularly welcomed back by his own people. I imagine he helped his people resist the Ori before and after the invasion. I think once the Ori were defeated he did his part to again rebuild, which appears to have been largely successful. However, earth seems to have a strained and suspicious relationship with Langera, and Jonas doesn’t appear to have a role in the current government. Therefore, I would posit that Jonas finally left his home world and returned to earth and SGC where he could continue his exploration of the galaxy.

                              Daniel for me is the hardest. I don’t see him continuing on SG-1. Personally, I think he would like to be closer to Jack and Sam. They are his closest family, and frankly they need him too. Maybe Jack made him a special diplomatic and cultural advisor for all intra- and inter- galactic relations, based in DC. I can see him being the one who keeps an eye on the big picture of earth’s role in the galaxy.

                              Sam is based in DC and spends a decent amount of time there since The Hammond’s home port is earth, and she would return to port often between various missions. But I don’t see The Hammond as a long-term assignment. I think with her knowledge and experience soon she will be given greater command responsibilities that will require her to largely remain on earth.

                              I think Jack will retire once Sam leaves The Hammond. But I don’t think the Stargate Program will entirely let him go. He will continue to play a consulting and training role.

                              In my world Jack and Sam have been married for some time and have a home they share in DC. They visit the cabin and go fishing as often as they can get away from their extensive responsibilities. I would love to see them have a child, and I think it is still possible although perhaps not probable. But since I’m free to imagine any scenario I want I will believe that sometime soon they have a baby girl and with their crazy extended SG-1 family, . . .

                              . . . They All Live Happily Ever After.

                              So what do you think?

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                                Originally posted by hlndncr View Post

                                (snipped the greatness)

                                In my world Jack and Sam have been married for some time and have a home they share in DC. They visit the cabin and go fishing as often as they can get away from their extensive responsibilities. I would love to see them have a child, and I think it is still possible although perhaps not probable. But since I’m free to imagine any scenario I want I will believe that sometime soon they have a baby girl and with their crazy extended SG-1 family, . . .

                                . . . They All Live Happily Ever After.

                                So what do you think?
                                wonderful!


                                in my shippy head and heart...

                                this was an idea/scene i had for sam/jack, based on the concept of sgu being revisited in 3 years. (i don't really care if it is, i just brought this to life with the idea for s/j )

                                not to give too much away about sgu's last ep, but eli is having a conversation with sam via the destiny's computer, and it's three years from now. in the convo, it's revealed that sam goes by 'o'neill', which confuses eli , until she lets him know it's through marriage. eli wants her to help with something, but she declines, letting him know that she's got a 2 year old at home with her husband (that's where jack comes in ), and she's pregnant with another and is about to go on maternity leave. she can't do the dangerous anymore.

                                so, this scenario's stuck in my head and i kind of love it. no, i really love it.

                                sally

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